FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Why dont all women breast feed?
Why dont all women breast feed?
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 . New parents particularly mothers are judged, criticised and asked to justify their actions whatever they do. I try whenever I can go tell them what a bloody excellent job they're doing. | |||
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"I did but I knew a lot of women who found it really difficult. Sympathetic midwives, health visitors and partners encouraged them to bottle feed of they found it too difficult. Having a new baby is hard and as long as they are getting enough nourishment and love it doesn't matter how. " You are right there and yes so some could be as well influenced by the midwifes, yes, that is what matters the most too, the love | |||
"Humans are the only kind that bottle feed their babies if breast is not viable, in the natural world it's do or die, or maybe surrogate breast feeding from another. Yeh breast is best but not fun if you get sore. A friend of mine used to say bottle fed babies grow up to be grumpy facist dictators. I don't think that's true." True but farmers bottle feed lambs for example if their mothers aren't producing enough milk, else they will die. | |||
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 ..helped lose baby weight quicker ..I was 13 and half stone pregnant | |||
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"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc."  There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby. | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc. There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby."Absolutely. Fed and happy is best! | |||
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"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it? "So, he thought it was strange his partner didn’t want to, surely they’ve discussed this and will know the reason, surely he will support his partner with whatever she feels comfortable doing, also why discuss this with other people, why is it anybody else’s business but their own ?! | |||
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"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it?
So, he thought it was strange his partner didn’t want to, surely they’ve discussed this and will know the reason, surely he will support his partner with whatever she feels comfortable doing, also why discuss this with other people, why is it anybody else’s business but their own ?!"I think it's important that we really dig deep and get right underneath the baby feeding choices of this family ... | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc. There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby.
Absolutely. Fed and happy is best! "There was actually a big campaign from breastfeeding charities discouraging use of that statement. Similarly as going away from outdated "breast is best". Fed is minimum standard but breastmilk is optimal - I believe that was their message. So you don't feel enormous pressure aiming for some breast is best impossible standard which is not needed in these vulnerable days, but also not to diminish the amazing things that breastmilk has and cannot be replicated. I guess just trying to find happy medium rather than polarise people? It's a sensitive subject to many. | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc." This | |||
added to that the fact my boobs were bigger than the child's head so it was difficult to get into a comfortable position for feeding as I worried I would smother him! I gave up after a few days sadly. But he thrived on the bottle and is now a healthy 7 year old. I didn't even try on my second. I had been so ill throughout the pregnancy, lost 3 stone in weight, so I was thankful to even have the energy to hold a bottle for him! | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc. There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby.
Absolutely. Fed and happy is best!
There was actually a big campaign from breastfeeding charities discouraging use of that statement. Similarly as going away from outdated "breast is best". Fed is minimum standard but breastmilk is optimal - I believe that was their message. So you don't feel enormous pressure aiming for some breast is best impossible standard which is not needed in these vulnerable days, but also not to diminish the amazing things that breastmilk has and cannot be replicated. I guess just trying to find happy medium rather than polarise people? It's a sensitive subject to many. "I don't really understand how it's polarising. Breast is best would be polarising. As would formula is best. Fed does not specify how. Breastfed babies are fed. Formula fed babies are fed. In the nicest way possible, I don't really care if breastfeeding charities dislike if I say it. They're speaking from their own perspective and bias towards breastfeeding and are going to dislike anything that doesn't actively encourage breastfeeding even a neutral statement that could equally apply to breastfeeding or formula feeding. | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc. There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby.
Absolutely. Fed and happy is best!
There was actually a big campaign from breastfeeding charities discouraging use of that statement. Similarly as going away from outdated "breast is best". Fed is minimum standard but breastmilk is optimal - I believe that was their message. So you don't feel enormous pressure aiming for some breast is best impossible standard which is not needed in these vulnerable days, but also not to diminish the amazing things that breastmilk has and cannot be replicated. I guess just trying to find happy medium rather than polarise people? It's a sensitive subject to many. "Was just about to mention That campaign. When I had my 3 I felt there was so much pressure to breast feed from the midwife, the health visitor and my in laws. That in itself put me off but I done it for around 3 months because I felt it was the right thing to do. I don't believe it makes much difference to the baby's health and development. I could only do it for that long because I wasn't making enough milk and my flip top nipples were screaming at me for hours a day! We were all much happier when the formula was in the cupboard. | |||
"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it?
So, he thought it was strange his partner didn’t want to, surely they’ve discussed this and will know the reason, surely he will support his partner with whatever she feels comfortable doing, also why discuss this with other people, why is it anybody else’s business but their own ?!"Yes I thought the word ‘strange’ to be odd. At end of the day they are her breasts. Think the guy seems a bit weird! | |||
"A whole multitude of reasons. Some women struggle with breastfeeding, some want their bodies back after 9 months of not being able to eat and drink and do certain things and don't want to continue that due to breastfeeding, some don't want to be the one responsible for all the day AND night feeds as the one with the boobs, for some it doesn't work for them due to returning to work, some don't feel up to it after a draining pregnancy/birth, for some it's just personal preference, some have issues such as invertered nipples, some don't want to deal with how some people can be offended by seeing breastfeeding, etc, etc. There are so many reasons why women don't and I don't think women should be ashamed or shamed for breastfeeding or bottle feeding - there's nothing wrong with either and it's about doing what's best for mum and baby.
Absolutely. Fed and happy is best!
There was actually a big campaign from breastfeeding charities discouraging use of that statement. Similarly as going away from outdated "breast is best". Fed is minimum standard but breastmilk is optimal - I believe that was their message. So you don't feel enormous pressure aiming for some breast is best impossible standard which is not needed in these vulnerable days, but also not to diminish the amazing things that breastmilk has and cannot be replicated. I guess just trying to find happy medium rather than polarise people? It's a sensitive subject to many.
I don't really understand how it's polarising. Breast is best would be polarising. As would formula is best. Fed does not specify how. Breastfed babies are fed. Formula fed babies are fed. In the nicest way possible, I don't really care if breastfeeding charities dislike if I say it. They're speaking from their own perspective and bias towards breastfeeding and are going to dislike anything that doesn't actively encourage breastfeeding even a neutral statement that could equally apply to breastfeeding or formula feeding. "It's not about dislike or like I think. Just promoting facts about breastmilk and nursing benefits. They also support women with formula feeding and expressing and combining. So infant feeding. In its best form possible for particular family. | |||
"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. " Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. | |||
"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family." I feel you. I just did what I want. After all you are the one who needs to deal with consequences of all your parenting choices not them. | |||
"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family." And other women, especially older women. That sour "I know what's best for your baby even though I'm a complete stranger" face | |||
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"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. And other women, especially older women. That sour "I know what's best for your baby even though I'm a complete stranger" face "It works both ways. Why don't you top up formula. Why don't you express so we can give a bottle. Why you aren't using dummy. Why this Why that.. | |||
"Shag have you ever tried breastmilk? You can buy it for bodybuilding!" I heard of it from a bodybuilder friend. I think he was just testing waters 
I think in Mongolia it's quite common for some wrestles to do it too and for some mothers to find their expressed milk missing from the fridge. Totally different view in their culture. At least based on article I read years ago. | |||
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"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. I feel you. I just did what I want. After all you are the one who needs to deal with consequences of all your parenting choices not them. " Me too. Someone once said to me "you just seem to do things your own way" and it wasn't a compliment. Why on earth we can't just support new parents to do what's best for all the family I really don't know. When we had our second child the health visitor was incredible. She walked in to chaos, a two year old still in pyjamas at midday, an untidy house, washing on the radiators and dishes in the sink. I was on the sofa and the two year old was next to me with the baby on their lap. The health visitors first words were "amazing mother". I could have kissed her. | |||
"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. And other women, especially older women. That sour "I know what's best for your baby even though I'm a complete stranger" face
It works both ways. Why don't you top up formula. Why don't you express so we can give a bottle. Why you aren't using dummy. Why this Why that.. "Yep. Why are you feeling on demand, why don't you leave the baby to cry, why are you letting your baby cry for so long. Basically why aren't you the perfect mother shown in the ads, drifting serenely into the spotless nursery in a negligee. | |||
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"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. I feel you. I just did what I want. After all you are the one who needs to deal with consequences of all your parenting choices not them. Me too. Someone once said to me "you just seem to do things your own way" and it wasn't a compliment. Why on earth we can't just support new parents to do what's best for all the family I really don't know. When we had our second child the health visitor was incredible. She walked in to chaos, a two year old still in pyjamas at midday, an untidy house, washing on the radiators and dishes in the sink. I was on the sofa and the two year old was next to me with the baby on their lap. The health visitors first words were "amazing mother". I could have kissed her. " I have quite few little statements engraved in my head like that.. just makes all the difference when you feel like you are failing at everything and the mini world is collapsing. Zero control and embrace the chaos. And someone says its OK! And it happened to them too. And that's when you can actually get people to listen to you and be receptive of any parenting guidance.. | |||
"Ah. My favourite topic. So many misconceptions around. That doesn't help to get right information. Lots of myths and goody advice do some harm too. And most importantly support. Women who got a good support are more likely to continue. It can be a painful and exhausting journey but also amazingly rewarding. In a country where less than 1% woman breastfeed to a year, it is hard to find your tribe who will give you the encouragement by example. Breastfeeding in public is covered now by Equality Act 2010 against discrimination, but women still hesitate in a fear of being judged. Or are actively discouraged by family or partners. To breastfeed in these circumstances is a challenge bigger than for those who were lucky to have minimal obstacles, correct information(not few conflicting advices) and non judgemental support on her journey as a new mother. Its even harder once they are over 6 months, I fed until mine was over 3 and there was a lot of judgement and lack of understanding. The worst offenders being family. I feel you. I just did what I want. After all you are the one who needs to deal with consequences of all your parenting choices not them. Me too. Someone once said to me "you just seem to do things your own way" and it wasn't a compliment. Why on earth we can't just support new parents to do what's best for all the family I really don't know. When we had our second child the health visitor was incredible. She walked in to chaos, a two year old still in pyjamas at midday, an untidy house, washing on the radiators and dishes in the sink. I was on the sofa and the two year old was next to me with the baby on their lap. The health visitors first words were "amazing mother". I could have kissed her. I have quite few little statements engraved in my head like that.. just makes all the difference when you feel like you are failing at everything and the mini world is collapsing. Zero control and embrace the chaos. And someone says its OK! And it happened to them too. And that's when you can actually get people to listen to you and be receptive of any parenting guidance.." Exactly! | |||
And just for a bit of a giggle, breast full of milk will spray across the room. | |||
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"Relentless undermining of breastfeeding by formula companies, to the point where it is so rare in wealthy countries that children and adults, us, people, hardly ever see it or think about it, or have it modelled to us. This combined with patriarchal taboos around exposure of breasts in public has led to UK breastfeeding rates being some of the lowest in the world, with 1% of babies being exclusively breastfed at 6mos (the WHO's minimum recommendation). I was surprised to discover that 81% of new parents initiate breastfeeding. The fact that that has dropped to 24% of new parents still breastfeeding at 6 weeks is a damning indictment of our society's approach to breastfeeding given that 8 of 10 breastfeeders' breastfeeding journey ends before they wanted it to. For those interested, figures can be found at UNICEF's Baby Friendly Initiative website. " Have you seen Tigers movie? By D. Tanovic. Worth the watch. | |||
"Shag have you ever tried breastmilk? You can buy it for bodybuilding! I heard of it from a bodybuilder friend. I think he was just testing waters
I think in Mongolia it's quite common for some wrestles to do it too and for some mothers to find their expressed milk missing from the fridge. Totally different view in their culture. At least based on article I read years ago. "I think I read that, its normal to feed until their palette changes and they lose their milk teeth around 8-10 years old. I was a peer supporter, so I could go into many comments above and explain reasons why bf didnt work for these ladies, but I dont want to preach! | |||
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"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it? "Shag what is it like in Sweden if you know? In terms of feeding in public or amongst family? | |||
"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it? "I did. It's not always painfree, even before they get teeth. You learn their position is wrong, the hard way (seriously split nipple is a hard lesson) It's all consuming. Even if you express milk it's still a 24 hour gig. Even if your breast are not really sore expressing milk can hurt. Breast pads and extra tops, you need lots, as milk leaks from you with the slightest movement. (Breathing counts) It can be uncomfortable breast feeding when you're out of home. Yes there are laws now but I got tutted and pointed at in a Macdonald's, whilst discreetly feeding my daughter and drinking water because thirst
My son wouldn't take a bottle, not even my milk expressed, permanent day and night shift for me. That's hard for the first few months until they sleep a little longer.
So whilst I personally fed all of mine, I can understand new mums that don't want to and I sympathise with those that can't
Me, fixed in 2012  | |||
"Relentless undermining of breastfeeding by formula companies, to the point where it is so rare in wealthy countries that children and adults, us, people, hardly ever see it or think about it, or have it modelled to us. This combined with patriarchal taboos around exposure of breasts in public has led to UK breastfeeding rates being some of the lowest in the world, with 1% of babies being exclusively breastfed at 6mos (the WHO's minimum recommendation). I was surprised to discover that 81% of new parents initiate breastfeeding. The fact that that has dropped to 24% of new parents still breastfeeding at 6 weeks is a damning indictment of our society's approach to breastfeeding given that 8 of 10 breastfeeders' breastfeeding journey ends before they wanted it to. For those interested, figures can be found at UNICEF's Baby Friendly Initiative website. Have you seen Tigers movie? By D. Tanovic. Worth the watch. " No not yet, I did have a go at getting it screened locally, but it didn't come off sadly. | |||
"Relentless undermining of breastfeeding by formula companies, to the point where it is so rare in wealthy countries that children and adults, us, people, hardly ever see it or think about it, or have it modelled to us. This combined with patriarchal taboos around exposure of breasts in public has led to UK breastfeeding rates being some of the lowest in the world, with 1% of babies being exclusively breastfed at 6mos (the WHO's minimum recommendation). I was surprised to discover that 81% of new parents initiate breastfeeding. The fact that that has dropped to 24% of new parents still breastfeeding at 6 weeks is a damning indictment of our society's approach to breastfeeding given that 8 of 10 breastfeeders' breastfeeding journey ends before they wanted it to. For those interested, figures can be found at UNICEF's Baby Friendly Initiative website. Have you seen Tigers movie? By D. Tanovic. Worth the watch. No not yet, I did have a go at getting it screened locally, but it didn't come off sadly." Yeah I went to first screening in London. The man who inspired the man character was present for Q & A. It was amazing and shocking. We tried getting it screened more locally, but they were on pause then for some reasons and not organising anything. I hope it keeps being viewed. | |||
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"My little one was born early so had to be tube fed. I did, however, express milk for him. I left hospital before he did and my milk declined to a point where I didn't produce enough so he was bottle fed. I did my best but bottle was better. " This is really common, there's something about the separation that dries a mum up, which is unfortunate, still baby needs fed so that's what's best | |||
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"It's amazing how much scrutiny mother's undergo with what she decides what is best for her and her baby. May this be from general public or family members. If you raise a happy child I salute you all. Motherhood is tough end of, we're all winging it. Xxx" Amen. | |||
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"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" " Ahh Peach, you were a new mum recovering from major surgery! You shouldn't have felt the need to fight to do what you felt was right for your family, amidst physical trauma and the disorienting upheaval of birth hormones. We failed you and your son, and I'm so sorry for that. | |||
"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" " And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. | |||
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"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" Ahh Peach, you were a new mum recovering from major surgery! You shouldn't have felt the need to fight to do what you felt was right for your family, amidst physical trauma and the disorienting upheaval of birth hormones. We failed you and your son, and I'm so sorry for that." I was mad at myself for caving, not because it was what I wanted, but I really felt I let my son down at that time, for the sake of his grandparents being able to hold him right there and then and not have them moan. I was so upset. I don't think grandparents realise the invisible pressure. | |||
"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience." For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished | |||
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"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" Ahh Peach, you were a new mum recovering from major surgery! You shouldn't have felt the need to fight to do what you felt was right for your family, amidst physical trauma and the disorienting upheaval of birth hormones. We failed you and your son, and I'm so sorry for that. I was mad at myself for caving, not because it was what I wanted, but I really felt I let my son down at that time, for the sake of his grandparents being able to hold him right there and then and not have them moan. I was so upset. I don't think grandparents realise the invisible pressure." I can only imagine. And I so wish your experience was rare. So many hugs for you, amazing woman 
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"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink!" It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten "And let's not forget liquid gold aka colostrum | |||
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"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished ". The first few days of being a mother are really difficult. I think some of the pressure comes from ourselves but a lot of it comes from outside. When our second was born Mr N wouldn't let anyone in the house for a week except the doctor and midwife . | |||
"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished
. The first few days of being a mother are really difficult. I think some of the pressure comes from ourselves but a lot of it comes from outside. When our second was born Mr N wouldn't let anyone in the house for a week except the doctor and midwife . "Oh it most certainly comes from ourselves too. Trying to keep everyone happy and all that. I really don't blame him at all, given the chance to go back I'd have put the same rule in place! | |||
"Humans are the only kind that bottle feed their babies if breast is not viable, in the natural world it's do or die, or maybe surrogate breast feeding from another. Yeh breast is best but not fun if you get sore. A friend of mine used to say bottle fed babies grow up to be grumpy facist dictators. I don't think that's true. True but farmers bottle feed lambs for example if their mothers aren't producing enough milk, else they will die. " I've also tought calves to drink out of buckets. | |||
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If someone questioned me on the choices of my body I would kindly inform him of the sacrifices my body had already made to produce a child whilst he stayed exactly the same. | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten "And it can change colour depending on antibodies present, when you've last expressed, how full your breasts are, the composition of it... I find it fascinating in a slightly weird way. | |||
"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished
. The first few days of being a mother are really difficult. I think some of the pressure comes from ourselves but a lot of it comes from outside. When our second was born Mr N wouldn't let anyone in the house for a week except the doctor and midwife .
Oh it most certainly comes from ourselves too. Trying to keep everyone happy and all that.
I really don't blame him at all, given the chance to go back I'd have put the same rule in place!"I was more than happy. Someone told me before I had my first baby to stay in my dressing gown for the first two weeks. Visitors then assume you are unable to make their tea, get them biscuits etc and do it themselves, they also offer to help because they connect nightwear in the day with illness. I tell every newly pregnant woman to do this . | |||
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"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished
. The first few days of being a mother are really difficult. I think some of the pressure comes from ourselves but a lot of it comes from outside. When our second was born Mr N wouldn't let anyone in the house for a week except the doctor and midwife .
Oh it most certainly comes from ourselves too. Trying to keep everyone happy and all that.
I really don't blame him at all, given the chance to go back I'd have put the same rule in place!
I was more than happy. Someone told me before I had my first baby to stay in my dressing gown for the first two weeks. Visitors then assume you are unable to make their tea, get them biscuits etc and do it themselves, they also offer to help because they connect nightwear in the day with illness. I tell every newly pregnant woman to do this . "Yep, I advocate similar. It sometimes gets called the 4th trimester, and is all about promoting breastfeeding and mother and baby bonding as a whole. Other cultures have traditional practices involving 40 or so days when the new mother is cared for, while she cares solely for the baby. I've also heard "1st week in the bed, 2nd week on the bed, 3rd week around the bed." | |||
"I wanted to, I had a c-section so was in hospital 5 days. On day 2 my partners parents turned up at visiting time and at that time my newborn wanted feeding. I was still learning, visiting time was limited, and in that moment I made a pressured snap decision. Have them seeing my tits and possibly judging how bad I was doing, moaning that they didn't get a chance to hold their grandson (ya know, with him being attached to my boob) or having them moan that they made the journey to the hospital and I didn't want them in at that time. So I caved and asked for a bottle to save all of that. Looking back now I feel ridiculous that I didn't have the guts to say "I'm really sorry, but he needs feeding and I'm uncomfortable and still learning, now isn't a good time" And this time without auto correct. Don't feel ridiculous for being a young, post-operative, new mother who needed time, understanding and patience. For a ballsy bitch, mine had vanished
. The first few days of being a mother are really difficult. I think some of the pressure comes from ourselves but a lot of it comes from outside. When our second was born Mr N wouldn't let anyone in the house for a week except the doctor and midwife .
Oh it most certainly comes from ourselves too. Trying to keep everyone happy and all that.
I really don't blame him at all, given the chance to go back I'd have put the same rule in place!
I was more than happy. Someone told me before I had my first baby to stay in my dressing gown for the first two weeks. Visitors then assume you are unable to make their tea, get them biscuits etc and do it themselves, they also offer to help because they connect nightwear in the day with illness. I tell every newly pregnant woman to do this .
Yep, I advocate similar. It sometimes gets called the 4th trimester, and is all about promoting breastfeeding and mother and baby bonding as a whole. Other cultures have traditional practices involving 40 or so days when the new mother is cared for, while she cares solely for the baby. I've also heard "1st week in the bed, 2nd week on the bed, 3rd week around the bed." "Love the concept. and Mothering the mother too | |||
"Someone we know have got a new born and he thought it was strange why his partner didnt want to do it, whilst there could be several reasons behind it like they might not like it, what do you think and did you do it?
So, he thought it was strange his partner didn’t want to, surely they’ve discussed this and will know the reason, surely he will support his partner with whatever she feels comfortable doing, also why discuss this with other people, why is it anybody else’s business but their own ?!
I think it's important that we really dig deep and get right underneath the baby feeding choices of this family ... "I’ll get the overhead projector out. | |||
"Why would any woman have to explain to anyone other than their partner why they chose to breastfeed or not. It's surely their own decision and there is a variety of reasons why women decide not to. Either decision is right for them no matter what anyone else thinks. For me I've never had to decide either way as I've never had children ." It’s the woman’s body, it’s up to her. I’ve two sisters who had babies in the same year. 1 sister gave in to pressure from midwives to breast feed, it lasted 2 weeks and they discovered baby was not getting enough milk and mum was exhausted. My other sister decided on day 1 it wasn’t for her and stood up to pressure refusing to breast feed. Both babies are in their 20s now and it caused them no harm. | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten
And it can change colour depending on antibodies present, when you've last expressed, how full your breasts are, the composition of it... I find it fascinating in a slightly weird way. "Theres also the fact that the saliva from baby can transmit to the mums immune system if baby is ill and within 4 hours, that baby is receiving antibodies for whatever baby has in the milk! Oh and in hotter temperatures the milk is thinner, with more water in it, to thirst quench and rehydrate. Studies into breast milk as a cure for some cancers are ongoing. | |||
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"Its not as straightforward as it seems. When my son was born, my then wife couldn't get him to latch on no matter how much she tried. I remember how she would just keep trying and just sat pumping each day as she really wanted to make it a success. It was heartbreaking to see her try so hard and nothing was working but at this point, my son was losing weight so she made the decision to give him formula milk to ensure he gets enough. I do think all new mums are encouraged to breastfeed but they should also be supported if they choose not to or can't also " | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten
And it can change colour depending on antibodies present, when you've last expressed, how full your breasts are, the composition of it... I find it fascinating in a slightly weird way.
Theres also the fact that the saliva from baby can transmit to the mums immune system if baby is ill and within 4 hours, that baby is receiving antibodies for whatever baby has in the milk!
Oh and in hotter temperatures the milk is thinner, with more water in it, to thirst quench and rehydrate.
Studies into breast milk as a cure for some cancers are ongoing."I find it so fascinating, it has stem cells in it amongst hundreds of other ingredients that we know of, and an unknown amount that we don't yet know about! We're only just scratching the surface of what we know about breast milk. | |||
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"Do you think that women who choose not to breast feed are looked down on by women that do (or society in general)? " Hell yes! I think every mother knows breast is best, but to shame someone for deciding to go with formula is so obnoxious. | |||
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"My Mum was still breast feeding me when I was 32....."  | |||
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"I have mixed breastfeeding experience. I wasn't successful with my first child. I was 16, I tried, got bilateral mastitis on a Bank Holiday and was in agony. He ended up on formula but I felt super guilty. He always had loads of ear infections and tonsil problems and I think I convinced myself it was my fault for bottle feeding him. Anyway, at 18, he's perfectly fine! My second took to breastfeeding like a duck to water and it was so straightforward! So easy! Apart from my leg was crippled, I was in agony from that and the solution offered to me was pregabalin. They told me (incorrectly) that if I breastfed on pregabalin, my baby would die etc so I stopped breastfeeding and took the nerve pain meds. I was discharged home on crutches and with pregabalin and left to work it out for myself. What that meant was I was completely reliant on my husband (Mr KC) and my then-14yo son. I couldn't ascend or descend stairs safely for months, I still need crutches for that 4 years later. I couldn't prepare bottles myself because I couldn't stand up without crutches and so I had no free hands. I finally got my wits back together, did my own research about breastfeeding and pregabalin and realised that the pain team were wrong. I worked with an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) and the local breastfeeding support NHS people. I borrowed a hospital grade pump and commenced Operation Relactate when my daughter was about 6 weeks old. A month of pumping dry, then drops etc lead to my supply coming back (bear in mind I stopped breastfeeding before it had come in) and we weaned off bottles for a bit. Life was so much easier not having to worry about bottles, for me. I went back to work when she was 4 months old, 2 days from home with her here and strapped to my front at first, then she went to nursery when she was 8 months. I rocked up on crutches with my breast pump in tow and I basically worked FT and pumped at work or at home for 18 months. She only stopped breastfeeding for comfort in lockdown 1 when she was 3. I'm super pro breastfeeding but I've experienced both sides of it and I'd much rather see women and babies happy and healthy. I do think more women could breastfeed successfully if there was more support and education around how breastfeeding works (cluster feeding is normal, dummies are unhelpful etc) and more than anything, the attitude that women should be up and doing the hoovering within a few days is not only detrimental to breastfeeding, but also to the wider physical health of women. No matter what delivery she's had, the pelvic floor needs to heal and carting round cleaning tools, carrying shopping, car seats and the like is TERRIBLE for the pelvic floor. Take it from someone who has or had triple pelvic organ prolapse that it's better to have an untidy house. Better still, get the in-laws doing the shopping rather than sitting cooing over the baby and whinging about you breastfeeding!" Wow!!! You relactated after all that?! That's just astonishing, you should be so proud of yourself! That's so many battles won right there! Medication and breastfeeding misinformation is sadly rife, even amongst healthcare professionals. The pharmacist Wendy Jones' website is the go to source for accurate and up-to-date information on medications and breastfeeding. I absolutely agree with your point that better education and support (for healthcare professionals as well as mothers) would allow more women to have the breastfeeding journeys they would choose. | |||
" Wow!!! You relactated after all that?! That's just astonishing, you should be so proud of yourself! That's so many battles won right there! Medication and breastfeeding misinformation is sadly rife, even amongst healthcare professionals. The pharmacist Wendy Jones' website is the go to source for accurate and up-to-date information on medications and breastfeeding. I absolutely agree with your point that better education and support (for healthcare professionals as well as mothers) would allow more women to have the breastfeeding journeys they would choose. " I did indeed. I'm really pleased we managed 3 years in the end. Relactation was made much easier by a super supportive husband (Mr KC is AMAZING), my son (also AMAZING) and some industrial strength pumps! Wendy Jones has been a huge help to me (she was recommended by the IBCLC) but I had to do my own legwork in researching. I know I'm fortunate to have a scientific background which lets me do that. Operation Relactate gave me something to focus on at a crazy difficult time and the fact I managed to breastfeed was one small tick in the box of "normal parenting" when I felt like an alien in Parent-land. By the way, Dr Jack Newman's resources and Kellymom were also invaluable. My employer was also hugely supportive - I was the first person to pump at work so they took on board the advice from various sources, added blinds to meeting rooms and block booked them for me at various times. They provided a small fridge and such things. All my colleagues were supportive too, never once batting an eyelid when I set off to pump, nor if I was rinsing the parts in the staff kitchen etc. I think education and support are the absolute benchmarks of successful breastfeeding and with better of both, women would be empowered to genuinely choose. At the moment, it's often not a true choice, it's "I'm stressed, in pain, my baby doesn't seem to be thriving, let's use bottles" and it can be more an "emergency" decision for many people (like me first time around). Also the knowledge of doctors on breastfeeding is absolutely shocking, bordering on disgraceful. Without knowing Wendy was there for advice, I'd have stopped breastfeeding so many times (nerve root injections, MRI scans - contrast free) etc. My daughter is now 4, raised on 2x 200mg pregabalin breastmilk for 3 years and she is absolutely thriving and happy. I'm glad I listened to my gut. I'm well aware my experience is not everyone's experience by the way. | |||
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"Fake boobs " Huh? | |||
" "This | |||
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" "Way to further the debate | |||
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"I’ve just had a coffee and bun. (Cows milk in the coffee) " Poor calves.  | |||
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" Wow!!! You relactated after all that?! That's just astonishing, you should be so proud of yourself! That's so many battles won right there! Medication and breastfeeding misinformation is sadly rife, even amongst healthcare professionals. The pharmacist Wendy Jones' website is the go to source for accurate and up-to-date information on medications and breastfeeding. I absolutely agree with your point that better education and support (for healthcare professionals as well as mothers) would allow more women to have the breastfeeding journeys they would choose. I did indeed. I'm really pleased we managed 3 years in the end. Relactation was made much easier by a super supportive husband (Mr KC is AMAZING), my son (also AMAZING) and some industrial strength pumps! Wendy Jones has been a huge help to me (she was recommended by the IBCLC) but I had to do my own legwork in researching. I know I'm fortunate to have a scientific background which lets me do that. Operation Relactate gave me something to focus on at a crazy difficult time and the fact I managed to breastfeed was one small tick in the box of "normal parenting" when I felt like an alien in Parent-land. By the way, Dr Jack Newman's resources and Kellymom were also invaluable. My employer was also hugely supportive - I was the first person to pump at work so they took on board the advice from various sources, added blinds to meeting rooms and block booked them for me at various times. They provided a small fridge and such things. All my colleagues were supportive too, never once batting an eyelid when I set off to pump, nor if I was rinsing the parts in the staff kitchen etc. I think education and support are the absolute benchmarks of successful breastfeeding and with better of both, women would be empowered to genuinely choose. At the moment, it's often not a true choice, it's "I'm stressed, in pain, my baby doesn't seem to be thriving, let's use bottles" and it can be more an "emergency" decision for many people (like me first time around). Also the knowledge of doctors on breastfeeding is absolutely shocking, bordering on disgraceful. Without knowing Wendy was there for advice, I'd have stopped breastfeeding so many times (nerve root injections, MRI scans - contrast free) etc. My daughter is now 4, raised on 2x 200mg pregabalin breastmilk for 3 years and she is absolutely thriving and happy. I'm glad I listened to my gut. I'm well aware my experience is not everyone's experience by the way." She is a star. I went to a conference where she was one of the speakers. And yes GPs do not receive enough training regarding lactation but that might change with more universities gaining Baby Friendly Initiative accreditation. | |||
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"As a man I probably don’t have the right to comment on this. I think every mother should try breast feeding." | |||
"As a man I probably don’t have the right to comment on this. I think every mother should try breast feeding. All the evidence is it’s best for the baby. I do struggle a bit with mothers who just decide it’s not for them without giving it a go " Have you even read the replies to this? | |||
"Do you think that women who choose not to breast feed are looked down on by women that do (or society in general)? " There'll always be someone ready and prepared to look down on others for a myriad of reasons. Trick is to not give a fuck! Fools errand trying to please everyone. | |||
"Do you think that women who choose not to breast feed are looked down on by women that do (or society in general)? " I felt I was and even now *8 years later, if Small gets a cold, as she does, regularly!!! Its my fault because I didn't feed her. I won't have another child as I'm too old now but if I had had then I would give my colostrum again (the only time my Small latched) then formula. As others have said, its not really anyone else's business (my partner didn't understand how demeaned I felt attached to a machine and producing about an ounce if that a day) and likened me to a cow hooked up to a milking machine. Looking back, I'm surprised he lasted until she was 6 months old with that (and other) pearlers surrounding my inability to even feed her - or smell when she needed changing - or how id let myself go. Funnily enough, he didn't seem to have a problem with me doing everything including swilling the balcony down regularly 5 days post section. I do hope he was better with his younger baby mama. | |||
"Do you think that women who choose not to breast feed are looked down on by women that do (or society in general)? There'll always be someone ready and prepared to look down on others for a myriad of reasons. Trick is to not give a fuck! Fools errand trying to please everyone. " Very true. You'd think anyone with an ounce of empathy would be nothing but supportive to new parents though. | |||
"Do you think that women who choose not to breast feed are looked down on by women that do (or society in general)? " Could not care if anyone looked down at me or not. Did not make me less of a Mum, I was happy so were my babies who were also very healthy and stay that way. Their lives were not impacted in anyway from MY decisions... | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten
And it can change colour depending on antibodies present, when you've last expressed, how full your breasts are, the composition of it... I find it fascinating in a slightly weird way. "In my case it was from the blood. Its amazing that none of them became vampires. | |||
"It can be very painful. I used to pump to give myself some relief and the milk was pink! It can be blue or green too, depending on what you've eaten
And it can change colour depending on antibodies present, when you've last expressed, how full your breasts are, the composition of it... I find it fascinating in a slightly weird way.
In my case it was from the blood. Its amazing that none of them became vampires."It happened to me a couple of times. It does freak you out a bit, no?! | |||
