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Toxic femininity
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Think it would look like the magazine's with their circles of shame. Saying oh look at her sweat patch or cellulite. And saying you should love your body as it is the next page here's how to loose weight. |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
I’m not sure if there is as such.
To my mind, toxic masculinity is where societal expectations of ‘being a man’ are directly contradictory to the emotional and physical well-being of the man and contradictory to being a good, respectful person.
Do women have those kinds of pressures on them?
I know that they have social and societal pressures but those are usually perceived as being from the male gaze rather than other women |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Think it would look like the magazine's with their circles of shame. Saying oh look at her sweat patch or cellulite. And saying you should love your body as it is the next page here's how to loose weight. "
This would be it I think. Perhaps as toxic masculinity targets men's emotional states, and toxic femininity focuses on women's physical states. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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From Psychology Today: a definition: Women expressing stereotypically “feminine” traits such as “passivity, empathy, sensuality, patience, tenderness, and receptivity … [which] result in individuals ignoring their mental or physical needs to sustain those around them … Toxic femininity is when one works to the benefit of others but to the detriment of themselves. It can appear as forms of depression, exhaustion, or wildly illogical solutions to complex problems.” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting. I assumed that toxic masculinity and therefore toxic femininity were about the negative effects these had on others not the individual themselves.
Ive learnt something today. |
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From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Is it not just a silly phrase coined by people who are threatened by the equally silly toxic masculinity phrasing?
Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour..... |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
"
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life"
.... and mine |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
"
A very good answer |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
"
I have a few of these in my work place which is male dominated. But then I'm not like that but I'm a battle axe and a hard nosed bitch. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
"
Excellent post. |
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"
I have a few of these in my work place which is male dominated. But then I'm not like that but I'm a battle axe and a hard nosed bitch.
Frieda, are you sure you're not me?!  "
Haha you can't bloody win sometimes can you? |
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"I have a few of these in my work place which is male dominated. But then I'm not like that but I'm a battle axe and a hard nosed bitch. "
Likewise, known for take no cr*p, but fair. The bosses always knew when I needed to see them, on behalf of others, I wasn’t there to whine but that they had a problem they needed to resolve. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The trouble with all of these definitions and names is that it actually denies many people their actual personality deeming it 'bad' or showing it in a negative light
On one hand we say like yourself, work on yourself, embrace our references and on the other we say if you behave like this or this or this then it's wrong and/or bad!
Like the whole blame culture or pcness or rules or societal expectations ... it'll all have a negative impact on our lives eventually |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine "
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr "
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Also find it interesting that everyone favours the urban dictionary version instead of the Psychology Today version! Always find it funny that we except any definition that suits our own perspective of terms |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With its counter part 'toxic masculinity' being banded about rather a lot ... is toxic femininity a thing?
What does it look like?
Just wondering  "
Yes I think Toxic femininity is something that can be very evident here on fab forums. The fact that the ratio of men to women here is far greater so lots of women play up on that to excuse their behaviour towards others. Some of the things women do or say here men would never get away with it. |
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"Also find it interesting that everyone favours the urban dictionary version instead of the Psychology Today version! Always find it funny that we except any definition that suits our own perspective of terms "
I've seen both in my workplace. My comment about the urban dictionary, was when I work as one of the men because I want to be seen as equal then I'm a battle axe. It sometimes feel I can't do right for doing wrong.
The psychology today one, is one that is recognised in my work place as an issue. And they are attempting to put measures in place to alleviate it. |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better. "
It needs to be acknowledged. We fight for equality, yet we still have women expecting to be treated like a princess and treating men like second class citizens. Drives me mental. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better.
It needs to be acknowledged. We fight for equality, yet we still have women expecting to be treated like a princess and treating men like second class citizens. Drives me mental. "
 |
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"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better.
It needs to be acknowledged. We fight for equality, yet we still have women expecting to be treated like a princess and treating men like second class citizens. Drives me mental. "
Me too at a young age when kids are physically the same. Oh don't hurt the girl in rough and tumble. Girls are supposed to look pretty and like Disney Princess. Ms ex genuinely told him off last summer because she wanted a pet snail, so he got his own aquarium and made it a home. He was told you have a daughter not a son  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The trouble with all of these definitions and names is that it actually denies many people their actual personality deeming it 'bad' or showing it in a negative light
On one hand we say like yourself, work on yourself, embrace our references and on the other we say if you behave like this or this or this then it's wrong and/or bad!
Like the whole blame culture or pcness or rules or societal expectations ... it'll all have a negative impact on our lives eventually "
|
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"
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better.
It needs to be acknowledged. We fight for equality, yet we still have women expecting to be treated like a princess and treating men like second class citizens. Drives me mental. "
Exactly this |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"Also find it interesting that everyone favours the urban dictionary version instead of the Psychology Today version! Always find it funny that we except any definition that suits our own perspective of terms
I've seen both in my workplace. My comment about the urban dictionary, was when I work as one of the men because I want to be seen as equal then I'm a battle axe. It sometimes feel I can't do right for doing wrong.
The psychology today one, is one that is recognised in my work place as an issue. And they are attempting to put measures in place to alleviate it. "
I think there are also parallels to be drawn between the two definitions just the Psychology Today one is more succinct and not as easily "relateable" than the other because of the phrasing. |
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"Also find it interesting that everyone favours the urban dictionary version instead of the Psychology Today version! Always find it funny that we except any definition that suits our own perspective of terms "
I see the psychology one as more a personal internal one, that maybe the individual needs to change how they are to get out of this. For me the urban one is more what I see day to day in the workplace or even how some conduct there life.
Both need changes in attitude and neither are invalid. |
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"Also find it interesting that everyone favours the urban dictionary version instead of the Psychology Today version! Always find it funny that we except any definition that suits our own perspective of terms
I've seen both in my workplace. My comment about the urban dictionary, was when I work as one of the men because I want to be seen as equal then I'm a battle axe. It sometimes feel I can't do right for doing wrong.
The psychology today one, is one that is recognised in my work place as an issue. And they are attempting to put measures in place to alleviate it.
I think there are also parallels to be drawn between the two definitions just the Psychology Today one is more succinct and not as easily "relateable" than the other because of the phrasing."
I'd agree with that, one is far more reliable. One is like a list of things women can do in the work place so it's easy to say yeah I've worked with a few of those. We could easily write a list for men and get a similar response.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It seems to me that toxic insecurity continues to breed when we walk our lives in a mindless manner. If we are not checking in with how we feel around certain people, we are inviting the wrong people in. I think this can have a devastating effect on our overall health and wellbeing if not careful. Is a real shame why people have to act in this manner. Power play is never an attractive trait.
 |
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"
That’s interesting!
I’ve definitely learnt something today. Judging by those standards, that covers a hell of a lot of people that I’ve met in my life
.... and mine
Yup!!! It exists in bucketloads!! Grrrrrrrr
This was exactly what I was referring to. I want us ladies to acknowledge it exists and do better. I want to do better.
It needs to be acknowledged. We fight for equality, yet we still have women expecting to be treated like a princess and treating men like second class citizens. Drives me mental.
Exactly this "
^^^More this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is? "
Early days yet. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is? "
Maybe because those commenting on here already realise it is an issue and it doesn’t relate to all woman, therefore it doesn’t need saying. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is? "
I personally hate the #notall responses as don’t believe a balanced human being needs that pointing out. Seems to derail conversations without reaching any conclusion. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
I personally hate the #notall responses as don’t believe a balanced human being needs that pointing out. Seems to derail conversations without reaching any conclusion."
I wholeheartedly agree, but it's such a common response these days to shut down conversations. It's refreshing to see women taking negative feedback of their gender without resorting to it. It's kinda made do a mini high five to us all on this thread |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Maybe because those commenting on here already realise it is an issue and it doesn’t relate to all woman, therefore it doesn’t need saying. "
True and that's a positive thing, I'm wondering why with recent events why it differs between women and men. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is? "
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
I personally hate the #notall responses as don’t believe a balanced human being needs that pointing out. Seems to derail conversations without reaching any conclusion.
I wholeheartedly agree, but it's such a common response these days to shut down conversations. It's refreshing to see women taking negative feedback of their gender without resorting to it. It's kinda made do a mini high five to us all on this thread "
I think it’s also a reflection of the lack of balance on here where most negative threads are aimed at men. There’s little discussion about women behaving poorly because only a women could really open that up for conversation as men get assassinated for moaning. Usually just by poor wording and failing to get their point across and everything being derailed into flirting, nastiness or an entirely different conversation. It’s a funny old place. I use my words sparingly these days. Seems a waste a lot of the time. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
"
Took the words right out of my mouth, nobody is perfect. I put my hand up when I was waitressing when I was younger of flirting to earn more tips. Would I do it now knowing better no. I've learnt and I'm not ashamed to admit it either.
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
I personally hate the #notall responses as don’t believe a balanced human being needs that pointing out. Seems to derail conversations without reaching any conclusion.
I wholeheartedly agree, but it's such a common response these days to shut down conversations. It's refreshing to see women taking negative feedback of their gender without resorting to it. It's kinda made do a mini high five to us all on this thread
I think it’s also a reflection of the lack of balance on here where most negative threads are aimed at men. There’s little discussion about women behaving poorly because only a women could really open that up for conversation as men get assassinated for moaning. Usually just by poor wording and failing to get their point across and everything being derailed into flirting, nastiness or an entirely different conversation. It’s a funny old place. I use my words sparingly these days. Seems a waste a lot of the time."
That's a good point and not one I had thought of to be honest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
"
Indeed, women aren't an heterogeneous kind, as as PP underlined, being female first erases her being an human after all (now I have daft punk in my head). The Hegemonic representation of women portrayed by media or certain form of feminism is dangerous and do not take into consideration the concept of intersectionality that, we are all, subjected to. |
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How do I think it looks?
Fuck knows.
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark that telling friends or family members how to raise their children because "you've had 3 kids and it didn't do them any harm" can be perceived that way? That you're somehow a better mother and female than they are if that makes sense. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Maybe because those commenting on here already realise it is an issue and it doesn’t relate to all woman, therefore it doesn’t need saying.
True and that's a positive thing, I'm wondering why with recent events why it differs between women and men. "
Possibly because *some* men see discussion of issues which appear to point fingers as an attack and possibly because sometimes it is just that in the way it is worded - I'm not a fan of the "not all xxx" thing as a canned response to dismiss a point, but do think there are times when it is relevant and backed up with a degree of rationale and reasoning.
Quite often on here, in general terms and not necessarily "feminist" ones you will see threads that can be quite dismissive of men's behaviour specific to the site, threads that are written very much from an "all men" perspective, so it's a logical and natural response to point out it's not "all men" sometimes - although there are ways of doing so that don't need to be dismissive. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
I personally hate the #notall responses as don’t believe a balanced human being needs that pointing out. Seems to derail conversations without reaching any conclusion.
I wholeheartedly agree, but it's such a common response these days to shut down conversations. It's refreshing to see women taking negative feedback of their gender without resorting to it. It's kinda made do a mini high five to us all on this thread
I think it’s also a reflection of the lack of balance on here where most negative threads are aimed at men. There’s little discussion about women behaving poorly because only a women could really open that up for conversation as men get assassinated for moaning. Usually just by poor wording and failing to get their point across and everything being derailed into flirting, nastiness or an entirely different conversation. It’s a funny old place. I use my words sparingly these days. Seems a waste a lot of the time."
You put that so much better than I |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Maybe because those commenting on here already realise it is an issue and it doesn’t relate to all woman, therefore it doesn’t need saying.
True and that's a positive thing, I'm wondering why with recent events why it differs between women and men.
Possibly because *some* men see discussion of issues which appear to point fingers as an attack and possibly because sometimes it is just that in the way it is worded - I'm not a fan of the "not all xxx" thing as a canned response to dismiss a point, but do think there are times when it is relevant and backed up with a degree of rationale and reasoning.
Quite often on here, in general terms and not necessarily "feminist" ones you will see threads that can be quite dismissive of men's behaviour specific to the site, threads that are written very much from an "all men" perspective, so it's a logical and natural response to point out it's not "all men" sometimes - although there are ways of doing so that don't need to be dismissive."
You just scout write what I was going to.
It is in the wording used possibly when using ‘men’ need to change, better to use ‘some’ need to change. A simple choice of words that could defuse what is already a touchy subject. |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
. |
"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
"
We've all experienced toxic femininity to some degree, we've all done it to varying degrees.
I do think that women on here can do better whether that's how they treat men or other women. From an early age women are taught to play up certain traits to get what they want, to get ahead and to view other women as competition for the attention of men. All of that is more than obvious on the forums - the simpering flirting that takes place when a sensible discussion is being had, the rivalry on the forum between women to be top bitch. Meh. I can focus on myself and try and be better. |
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"How do I think it looks?
Fuck knows.
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark that telling friends or family members how to raise their children because "you've had 3 kids and it didn't do them any harm" can be perceived that way? That you're somehow a better mother and female than they are if that makes sense."
It does make sense.
Just as another female telling another how to dress, wear skirts, show your cleavage, wear makeup etc, just because that is how they like to be don’t make others fit into that box. |
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"How do I think it looks?
Fuck knows.
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark that telling friends or family members how to raise their children because "you've had 3 kids and it didn't do them any harm" can be perceived that way? That you're somehow a better mother and female than they are if that makes sense."
You've made me remember a about mother and toddler group I used to attend. And yep makes total sense |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
We've all experienced toxic femininity to some degree, we've all done it to varying degrees.
I do think that women on here can do better whether that's how they treat men or other women. From an early age women are taught to play up certain traits to get what they want, to get ahead and to view other women as competition for the attention of men. All of that is more than obvious on the forums - the simpering flirting that takes place when a sensible discussion is being had, the rivalry on the forum between women to be top bitch. Meh. I can focus on myself and try and be better."
Your middle paragraph I believe does come down to upbringing and what they see around them, how they are taught to act, the media and to some extent how some men like their companions to look.
My life was dominated by 5 strong females, all hard working but not what I’d call your typical female characters of those times. The only time I saw them wear makeup was for a wedding or alike. I was a tomboy and was allowed to be, with the family joke of the odd piece of makeup or a skirt as a Christmas present with the note “maybe one day you’ll be more typical feminine”. |
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
We've all experienced toxic femininity to some degree, we've all done it to varying degrees.
I do think that women on here can do better whether that's how they treat men or other women. From an early age women are taught to play up certain traits to get what they want, to get ahead and to view other women as competition for the attention of men. All of that is more than obvious on the forums - the simpering flirting that takes place when a sensible discussion is being had, the rivalry on the forum between women to be top bitch. Meh. I can focus on myself and try and be better."
I think on the whole we, as humans, as people, can all do better. Better by other people, better by ourselves and better by the planet.
Recognising it and acting on it can be really fucking scary but it's only from that point that we can make change where needed.
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"How do I think it looks?
Fuck knows.
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark that telling friends or family members how to raise their children because "you've had 3 kids and it didn't do them any harm" can be perceived that way? That you're somehow a better mother and female than they are if that makes sense.
You've made me remember a about mother and toddler group I used to attend. And yep makes total sense "
Mother and baby groups *shudder* |
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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"From urban dictionary and how I see toxic feminity
The idea of toxic femininity refers to extreme/toxic personality traits that many women develop based on how females as a whole are treated/taught how to act by society.
These personality traits usually revolve around a heavy sense of entitlement and failure to take responsibility for one's own actions. Many societal double standards exist in favor of women(don't argue with a woman, don't hit a woman back, the man should always be the one to pay, etc) which further influences this type of behavior. The media mainly focuses on the concept of toxic masculinity but refuses to acknowledge the existence of toxic femininity.
Examples of toxic femininity include:
- Women who bring nothing to the table yet expect a man to fully support all of their needs.
- Women who claim to want "equality" but refuse to take charge when put in a position to do so
- Women who frequently bash the physical appearance of other women
- Women who blame men for all of their problems
- Women who act weak, helpless, or squeamish (like a damsel in distress) to get what their way
- Women who only seek men for financial support
- Women who want to normalize the emasculation of males
- Women say "men are trash"
- Women who refuse to acknowledge societal double standards
"
This list is pretty spot on . But for some reason a fair few women seem to get away with this behaviour.Even on fab and in the forum's even you see it quite a bit. |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison "
I went for a bit with both my kids. The first time I was a 16yo teenage mum. Fucking hell, was I NOT welcome!
The second time I was newly disabled and on crutches. I couldn't sit on the floor. All the stairs were stacked up and chained to a radiator in the church hall. Someone found me a stepping stool from the kitchen but it was agony. I sat trying to suppress tears while the group leader took my daughter off me to skip around and do actions to songs, parachute crap. I went a couple of times to try and get out of the house but I gave up. I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months, on my crutches, breast pump in tow, back to a place where I was respected, appreciated and supported. I fucking love my colleagues  |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison "
Two expectant mother’s meetings was enough for me to decide not to attend mothers groups after birth. |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison
I went for a bit with both my kids. The first time I was a 16yo teenage mum. Fucking hell, was I NOT welcome!
The second time I was newly disabled and on crutches. I couldn't sit on the floor. All the stairs were stacked up and chained to a radiator in the church hall. Someone found me a stepping stool from the kitchen but it was agony. I sat trying to suppress tears while the group leader took my daughter off me to skip around and do actions to songs, parachute crap. I went a couple of times to try and get out of the house but I gave up. I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months, on my crutches, breast pump in tow, back to a place where I was respected, appreciated and supported. I fucking love my colleagues "
That is bloody awful and toxic.
I was made to feel inferior because I was going back to full time work with my second and my ex was going to work part time. So I could catch up and he could spend time with the kids. I may as well have had a third head. |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison
I went for a bit with both my kids. The first time I was a 16yo teenage mum. Fucking hell, was I NOT welcome!
The second time I was newly disabled and on crutches. I couldn't sit on the floor. All the stairs were stacked up and chained to a radiator in the church hall. Someone found me a stepping stool from the kitchen but it was agony. I sat trying to suppress tears while the group leader took my daughter off me to skip around and do actions to songs, parachute crap. I went a couple of times to try and get out of the house but I gave up. I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months, on my crutches, breast pump in tow, back to a place where I was respected, appreciated and supported. I fucking love my colleagues "
*CHAIRS. The chairs were stacked up and chained to the radiator. Bloody autocarrot! |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison
I went for a bit with both my kids. The first time I was a 16yo teenage mum. Fucking hell, was I NOT welcome!
The second time I was newly disabled and on crutches. I couldn't sit on the floor. All the stairs were stacked up and chained to a radiator in the church hall. Someone found me a stepping stool from the kitchen but it was agony. I sat trying to suppress tears while the group leader took my daughter off me to skip around and do actions to songs, parachute crap. I went a couple of times to try and get out of the house but I gave up. I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months, on my crutches, breast pump in tow, back to a place where I was respected, appreciated and supported. I fucking love my colleagues
That is bloody awful and toxic.
I was made to feel inferior because I was going back to full time work with my second and my ex was going to work part time. So I could catch up and he could spend time with the kids. I may as well have had a third head. "
Mr KC's mum and sister looked after her for the first month after I went back, and I worked from home 2 days a week with her strapped to my front. Worked really well. Mr KC then had a month off with her (his college hols) and then I took a bunch of my annual leave in August. Then she went to nursery, she's still at the same one and she bloody loves it. My mother gave me grief for going back to work... |
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"Mother and baby groups *shudder*
The most toxic environment I've ever been, makes the forum seem tame in comparison
I went for a bit with both my kids. The first time I was a 16yo teenage mum. Fucking hell, was I NOT welcome!
The second time I was newly disabled and on crutches. I couldn't sit on the floor. All the stairs were stacked up and chained to a radiator in the church hall. Someone found me a stepping stool from the kitchen but it was agony. I sat trying to suppress tears while the group leader took my daughter off me to skip around and do actions to songs, parachute crap. I went a couple of times to try and get out of the house but I gave up. I went back to work when my daughter was 4 months, on my crutches, breast pump in tow, back to a place where I was respected, appreciated and supported. I fucking love my colleagues
That is bloody awful and toxic.
I was made to feel inferior because I was going back to full time work with my second and my ex was going to work part time. So I could catch up and he could spend time with the kids. I may as well have had a third head.
Mr KC's mum and sister looked after her for the first month after I went back, and I worked from home 2 days a week with her strapped to my front. Worked really well. Mr KC then had a month off with her (his college hols) and then I took a bunch of my annual leave in August. Then she went to nursery, she's still at the same one and she bloody loves it. My mother gave me grief for going back to work..."
My gran did too, how was my eldest going to be looked after. I told her I was going to lock him in the cupboard under the stairs. Her face, before anyone says he went to nursery. |
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"Isn’t toxic femininity when a women uses their gender to obtain certain privileges?
"
Goggle says it is this.
Sexism is focused on robbing women of status and rights; toxic femininity is about defining womanhood so shallowly that a woman feels de-gendered by basic human acts or neutral preferences. Both factors lead to women being compressed into impossibly tight, uncomfortable shapes. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"My mother gave me grief for going back to work...
My gran did too, how was my eldest going to be looked after. I told her I was going to lock him in the cupboard under the stairs. Her face, before anyone says he went to nursery. "
And is that possibly part of the problem - previous generations of women having an ingrained view of what should and shouldn't happen? And treating girls very much differently to boys, which surely only fosters the stereotypes and feeds dependencies etc.
My ex mother-in-law treated my son and my daughter very differently and that was something I saw in her mothers treatment of her compared to her brothers.
The males of the family were always favoured and the women/girls made to feel like they were inferior - saw that behaviour to an extent from my ex too when it came to my son and daughter after we split (when unfortunately the toxicity of our relationship meant I was unable to do a great deal about it).
Always jarred with me as my Mum was even handed regardless of the gender of the child. |
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It's a good point, there are expectations of how females should behave. But I think some of it is to validate their own lives. Even Ms mother was shocked when he went for joint custody of his daughter when he took his ex to court. We do need to address that traditional gender roles are a bag of wank. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"We do need to address that traditional gender roles are a bag of wank."
Completely agree and think the corner is slowly being turned both professionally and in society generally - will be interesting to see how that stands in 15-20 years as generations a little more removed from the "traditionalist" standpoint achieve adult/parenthood
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m not sure if there is as such.
To my mind, toxic masculinity is where societal expectations of ‘being a man’ are directly contradictory to the emotional and physical well-being of the man and contradictory to being a good, respectful person.
Do women have those kinds of pressures on them?
I know that they have social and societal pressures but those are usually perceived as being from the male gaze rather than other women"
i think theres definitely women pressure on women - think like stepford housewives judging you for the hinch level of your house and the pressure to be a perfect wife, daughter, mother - while probably hiding in the toilet from their kids and having a cry because its such a damn stressful way to live life
i have a friend that does it to herself - always shattered, but will make herself so an ironing including bedsheets and underwear at 2am because she has to keep house like its 1950 (despite being at uni and working and having 2 kids and 2 dogs) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
Took the words right out of my mouth, nobody is perfect. I put my hand up when I was waitressing when I was younger of flirting to earn more tips. Would I do it now knowing better no. I've learnt and I'm not ashamed to admit it either.
"
is it potentially toxic masculinity to that stops men from doing the same? from admitting they are human and not perfect and both capable and requiring of change? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't help but notice no female as felt the need to write #notallwomen on here. More an acceptance it's an issue and we need to do better. Genuinely wonder why that is?
Coz I'm not disillusioned enough to believe I've not done something myself, with or without realising, that could be considered toxic femininity.
I'm human as well as female.
Times change.
We learn quite often how to behave by learning first how not to. We learn by consequences, perceived or experienced among many many other things.
Life is a minefield that changes constantly.
We've all experienced toxic femininity to some degree, we've all done it to varying degrees.
I do think that women on here can do better whether that's how they treat men or other women. From an early age women are taught to play up certain traits to get what they want, to get ahead and to view other women as competition for the attention of men. All of that is more than obvious on the forums - the simpering flirting that takes place when a sensible discussion is being had, the rivalry on the forum between women to be top bitch. Meh. I can focus on myself and try and be better.
I think on the whole we, as humans, as people, can all do better. Better by other people, better by ourselves and better by the planet.
Recognising it and acting on it can be really fucking scary but it's only from that point that we can make change where needed.
"
very well said, I for one know i’m far from perfect and know have much room for improvement. God only knows, I try my best to be a better person (which I must say is not easy). |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"Is it potentially toxic masculinity to that stops men from doing the same? from admitting they are human and not perfect and both capable and requiring of change? "
I think potentially it is with some - or not having a realisation that what they are doing is wrong to know to take ownership and make changes in the first place - then it's further muddied further by some of the subjective grey areas in between the two things.
As we've seen on a lot of these threads, what one person deems acceptable, or even tolerable, another may take objection to, so it can be a minefield to negotiate at times.
So perhaps the first step is awareness from both sides rather than condemnation at every step. |
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