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The Victim Narrative
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I once had a third wave feminist tell me that it was impossible for women to discriminate against men or harass them because discrimination is "structural". Is that your experience?
I have personally been shouted at by women in the street, slapped on the arse in clubs by women and bullied by women in the workplace. Or have I? Can women really do none of those things? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them |
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them "
Cant disagree with a word of that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them "
Well said. |
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them "
 |
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them "
Thread closed by Moderator  perfect answer |
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them "
I agree wholeheartedly with this but it is not the prevailing narrative. Personally, I accept that there are systemic biases that enable certain behaviours by powerful groups but it seems disingenuous to me to restrict those problematic behaviours to groups that the system was set up to serve.
For me, discrimination is a function of abuse of power and while it might be easier for favoured groups to act in that way, there will always be situations in which the "oppressed" groups wield power and abuse it. My own experiences tell me that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them
I agree wholeheartedly with this but it is not the prevailing narrative. Personally, I accept that there are systemic biases that enable certain behaviours by powerful groups but it seems disingenuous to me to restrict those problematic behaviours to groups that the system was set up to serve.
For me, discrimination is a function of abuse of power and while it might be easier for favoured groups to act in that way, there will always be situations in which the "oppressed" groups wield power and abuse it. My own experiences tell me that."
well you say it isn’t the prevailing narrative, but its your narrative, the poster directly after you agreed, then i did and the next 4 posters agreed with mine ( as a side note i am probably going to quit the forum on that high - unheard of turn of events - fab forum... completed it mate )
so it seems very much like the prevailing narrative to me - other than the one person anecdotally who disagreed with you i don’t see anyone pushing another narrative at the moment |
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I'm not sure this is the same thing but I'm going to say it.... Yes women can and do abuse their power. Female teachers grooming students, older women preying on young men, men being victims of domestic violence (both mental and physical) but you need to look at how that is treated by other men.
I've seen threads on here in the past about female teachers in the news for grooming teenage boys and the amount of guys who said they wish that their teacher had been like that or said the boy should be well happy that a milf wanted him etc. It was disgusting and shameful. The majority of those who saw how wrong it was were women. They were wanting justice for the boy where as most of the men were asking why they didn't get the same at school.
That is what is wrong with these situations and unfortunately, again, it comes down to challenging mostly male values and opinions. |
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"for me you both have elements of your argument that are correct
the system wether you think so or not is set up to give men an advantage - there are more men in positions of power, they are paid more, they are just biologically stronger and larger in most cases which nobody can help and there are centuries if ingrained thoughts that need to be revolutionised before we even think about starting as equal
however absolutely women personally can harass and bully and discriminate against men - its just that the system wasn’t set up to do it for them
its a bit similar to discussions during BLM where people would mention systematic racism against people of colour because there is ingrained non conscious bias built into the system again wether we want to admit it or not
but that doesn’t mean that a white person can’t experience racism - particularly if they live in an area predominantly populated by another race - it just means that racism isn’t because the system was set up to fail them
I agree wholeheartedly with this but it is not the prevailing narrative. Personally, I accept that there are systemic biases that enable certain behaviours by powerful groups but it seems disingenuous to me to restrict those problematic behaviours to groups that the system was set up to serve.
For me, discrimination is a function of abuse of power and while it might be easier for favoured groups to act in that way, there will always be situations in which the "oppressed" groups wield power and abuse it. My own experiences tell me that.
well you say it isn’t the prevailing narrative, but its your narrative, the poster directly after you agreed, then i did and the next 4 posters agreed with mine ( as a side note i am probably going to quit the forum on that high - unheard of turn of events - fab forum... completed it mate )
so it seems very much like the prevailing narrative to me - other than the one person anecdotally who disagreed with you i don’t see anyone pushing another narrative at the moment "
The media not this forum of eminently sensible and empathic individuals |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure this is the same thing but I'm going to say it.... Yes women can and do abuse their power. Female teachers grooming students, older women preying on young men, men being victims of domestic violence (both mental and physical) but you need to look at how that is treated by other men.
I've seen threads on here in the past about female teachers in the news for grooming teenage boys and the amount of guys who said they wish that their teacher had been like that or said the boy should be well happy that a milf wanted him etc. It was disgusting and shameful. The majority of those who saw how wrong it was were women. They were wanting justice for the boy where as most of the men were asking why they didn't get the same at school.
That is what is wrong with these situations and unfortunately, again, it comes down to challenging mostly male values and opinions. "
this reminds me of a video i saw on til tok the other day about the “under sexualisation” of men and how in part it leads to current problems
fab which is a bit of its own beast aside, day to day ordinary men are hardly ever overtly sexualised vocally or physically by someone that isn’t their partner - they end up craving that attention a little like a fantasy which is where the daft comments like oh i wish my teacher did that to me come from
in the other hand women are objectified constantly and are more and more vocal about how unacceptable they find it
the video wasn’t justifying mens behaviour in objectifying women - just saying that it should form part of the discussion because we are coming from such different perspectives and levels of experience that it makes it hard for each gender to relate to the other on this topic - women are objecting to something men are craving and its hard to connect those dots |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The media not this forum of eminently sensible and empathic individuals "
i think the media have a different agenda every week because their real agenda is making money and they do that by publishing controversy
while there is risk of being in an echo chamber if selective in your acquaintances, i tend to care much more about what i see and hear from people around me than whatever the newspapers are pushing as flavour of the month |
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