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Faith change
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
Have you changed your beliefs/faith. E.g from one to another (Christian to Muslim) or lost or gained faith e.g (atheist to Judaism or the other way).
Was the change easy of difficult, fast or slow? |
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By *xydadbodMan
over a year ago
Milton keynes |
I don't think I've changed faith but growing up with two sides of the family that is Muslim and Christians have been of some benefit to me. I don't practise it but I still follow the principle of it.. so be kind to others, respect, love and all that but I do have friends that convert and they find it difficult at first. I suppose its a massive change to go through but having a network support would definitely help |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"I don't think I've changed faith but growing up with two sides of the family that is Muslim and Christians have been of some benefit to me. I don't practise it but I still follow the principle of it.. so be kind to others, respect, love and all that but I do have friends that convert and they find it difficult at first. I suppose its a massive change to go through but having a network support would definitely help "
That’s an interesting upbringing to be exposed to different faiths.
I know a number of people that have lost faith at times in their lives (me included) and it often has a cost. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars  
"
I think that’s an oversimplification. Neither of the two world wars, nor the American civil war were religious wars.
Extreme ideologies with not space for diversity and tolerance or lust for power cause wars. |
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Not changed religion as such.
I was sort of brought up Christian but as I grew up and started to question things I lost ant belief I had.
I've been atheist for a long time now but support the rights of others to follow their own beliefs, as long as they do not harm others. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others. "
I agree. It’s interesting how many scientists do have faith though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others. "
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
I think that’s an oversimplification. Neither of the two world wars, nor the American civil war were religious wars.
Extreme ideologies with not space for diversity and tolerance or lust for power cause wars. "
But other wats are going in through religious beliefs and differences. Isn’t there?
I think he had a point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was raised in a Christian household but am slowly taking steps into conversion to another religion although Covid has made things difficult.
Its given me time to reflect and rebalance myself to decide whether it is the right choice for me
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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catholic to atheist and i dont actually remember it happening - up til about 8 my family actually thought i was going to want to be a nun - i went to chapel saturday and sunday for the choir, every day before school when it was lent , and watched a cousin of the family’s video of her ceremony for going into the convent over and over 
not sure what happened or when i stopped believing - i tried going to mass again at about 13 when my mum younger sister was being taken in lead up to her baptism but by then i couldn’t make myself re-beleive and was already firmly planted in the science and evolution camp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did. "
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
I think that’s an oversimplification. Neither of the two world wars, nor the American civil war were religious wars.
Extreme ideologies with not space for diversity and tolerance or lust for power cause wars.
But other wats are going in through religious beliefs and differences. Isn’t there?
I think he had a point. "
I think the point is that humans cause wars. And various factors (including religion) can play a part in that. But even if there was no religion I don’t think it would put an end to war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others. "
100% this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally I have no belief in any religion.
I totally get that an awful lot of people find comfort having a faith to follow but not for me.
Have seen many people in extreme poverty having many children as their faith tells them certain things are not accepted.
That I personally find heart breaking.
Many conflicts through history have been caused by religion or have seen persecution of some because of their faith.
If it works for you then fantastic, I will not mock folk for that.
Me? No thanks to any of them |
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By *rder66Man
over a year ago
Tatooine |
I have a quote in one of my medition books which reads as: Religion in the belief in someone elses experience, spirituality is having your own experience.
Also it is not religion that make wars but the people who control the narative of the religion.
Religion asks for blind faith which if you faulter you suffer eternal hell. Spiriuality ask for you to find your own path and only promises bliss and is born out of people already experiencing suffering. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
100% this "
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
100% this "
Ditto, I grew up with a devoutly Christian mum so I did the whole church every Sunday morning, Easter and Christmas services etc too. But I just don't believe, you can't just expect people to believe all these wonders and miracles with zero evidence. I've maintained that I'm open to the idea if somebody can prove to me that there's a benevolent deity with a master plan for everyone but until then I'll still with science 
LvM |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was raised Christian, I'd probably loosely say I am a Christian. I grew up not far from a Buddhist monestary which I often went to, which got me interested in other religions and cultures and have been ever since. I was always taught or encouraged to question ones faith and not blindly follow doctrine. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
I think that’s an oversimplification. Neither of the two world wars, nor the American civil war were religious wars.
Extreme ideologies with not space for diversity and tolerance or lust for power cause wars.
But other wats are going in through religious beliefs and differences. Isn’t there?
I think he had a point.
I think the point is that humans cause wars. And various factors (including religion) can play a part in that. But even if there was no religion I don’t think it would put an end to war. "
religion not being responsible for 100% of war doesn’t mean saying religion causes war is an incorrect statement though - its specifically designed to be exclusionary and divisive when if any of them were as morally good as they claim to be then part of their religion would be learning to be tolerant of others beliefs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
"
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
100% this
Ditto, I grew up with a devoutly Christian mum so I did the whole church every Sunday morning, Easter and Christmas services etc too. But I just don't believe, you can't just expect people to believe all these wonders and miracles with zero evidence. I've maintained that I'm open to the idea if somebody can prove to me that there's a benevolent deity with a master plan for everyone but until then I'll still with science
LvM"
I think the analogy of religion belief as the belief of miracles or a deity is simplistic if you allow me.
To believe in something, whatever this thing is, is part of our nature. The mere process of saying I believe in science proves that point.
People need anchors, some find it in religion and spirituality, some in science while others in atheism.
What I find particularly interesting is how each of those would religiously defend their ideas. As if everyone holds the truth.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I’m faithless.
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
It's in natural grace
Or watching young life shape
It's in minor keys
Solutions and remedies
Enemies becoming friends
When bitterness ends
This is my church |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too. "
I get why some people think it's depressing, but I condiser it realistic. I've no proof to the contrary, plus, if I'm wrong and there is an afterlife, then I'll only be pleasantly surprised. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i was brought up in a C of E household.
I am not religious at all now, but have plenty of friends who are devote (all religions) - the immense comfort they get from their support network is great and I'm happy for them, that it works for them.
One of my friends has a relative who moved to the USA to become a preacher, so we've had some exposure to the financial side +motivation and the drive to keep the dollars rolling in... And in honesty it chills me, i see it as pure exploitation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I just filled in a few forms sent them off recieved an email week or so later from Christian god saying they had recieved them and a date my faith would swap over to Muslim, then just got a confirmation email from Allah only problem was I think it was a spam account because he was going under 99 different names so obviously a fake account, ended up cancelling that subscription and went with Zoroastrianism they had a cracking deal and sorted all the paperwork out hope this helps |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Science and engineer background here. Having had a very bad indirect experience (which I won’t go into here), I have enough empirical evidence in my mind to never want organised region in my life.
I used to work with a guy who was an atheist. He once said, we’re all atheists, I just believe in one god less than you! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Most people don’t ‘believe’ in science. They believe and trust the accumulated evidence behind scientific knowledge and hopefully change their mind as the evidence changes.
Belief in religion has no such evidential basis. It is faith alone, for better or worse. |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
"
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters. |
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The general denial of "Reality/Science" and forced upon children ?? and bit like believing in the tooth fairy ?? just another "Pyramid" selling scheme and if any so called "Normal" person started saying they could talk to invisible people who "Watched" and "Judged" you on everything you do 24/7 and had a book written by magic and containing knowledge ?? you'd be locked up for your own safety ?? but dress it up ....and the whole "Respect" my faith ...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too. "
the reason that you have given of needing something to look forward to would suggest to me that its not that you can’t believe we become nothing its that you dont want to because that belief would make you uncomfortable
ironically if i could choose my belief i would choose a faith- i think its a real nice thing to have and wish i did - i just cant make my brain accept it |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
I think that’s an oversimplification. Neither of the two world wars, nor the American civil war were religious wars.
Extreme ideologies with not space for diversity and tolerance or lust for power cause wars.
But other wats are going in through religious beliefs and differences. Isn’t there?
I think he had a point. "
Absolutely.. Religions have been used to lead people into war. They've been used for peace too and all paradigms in between. Its a lazy and simplistic trope though to say religion causes war. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"i was brought up in a C of E household.
I am not religious at all now, but have plenty of friends who are devote (all religions) - the immense comfort they get from their support network is great and I'm happy for them, that it works for them.
One of my friends has a relative who moved to the USA to become a preacher, so we've had some exposure to the financial side +motivation and the drive to keep the dollars rolling in... And in honesty it chills me, i see it as pure exploitation "
I have had similar experience. Once people get paid and buildings need to be kept running it certainly gets very murky |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too.
I get why some people think it's depressing, but I condiser it realistic. I've no proof to the contrary, plus, if I'm wrong and there is an afterlife, then I'll only be pleasantly surprised. "
see i look st it the opposite - if there is an afterlife and we didnt subscribe we are gubbed if there isn’t then those that believed all their life won’t know any different anyway  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters. "
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories |
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
100% this
Ditto, I grew up with a devoutly Christian mum so I did the whole church every Sunday morning, Easter and Christmas services etc too. But I just don't believe, you can't just expect people to believe all these wonders and miracles with zero evidence. I've maintained that I'm open to the idea if somebody can prove to me that there's a benevolent deity with a master plan for everyone but until then I'll still with science
LvM
I think the analogy of religion belief as the belief of miracles or a deity is simplistic if you allow me.
To believe in something, whatever this thing is, is part of our nature. The mere process of saying I believe in science proves that point.
People need anchors, some find it in religion and spirituality, some in science while others in atheism.
What I find particularly interesting is how each of those would religiously defend their ideas. As if everyone holds the truth. "
Oh no, I get it. Even as I was typing it out I could hear my mum in my head saying all those times about how faith is believing without proof
Ricky Gervais has made an excellent point about the difference between science and religion as beliefs though. Essentially that if you wiped out all history, religion may return in some form or another, however science, maths, and the like would return the same as they will always be true... until science discovers a new law or material  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Think the best answer i heard was from dave allen....religion is like smoking ..they both rely 100% on recruiting the young ..to keep people ..hence so called Faith schools etc etc "
interestingly most people that i know are religious went to non denominational schools and chose religion as adults (generally when they had children of their own) |
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I can't say I've ever had faith in any God. I understand why people do though, a collective experience, a common ground but most of all an answer. It's easier to make "sense" of a world where things don't make sense at all, where things happen that nobody wants to see or experience. People naturally look for a reason, an explanation. You can easily lose hope without faith and a life without hope seems a pretty fucking bleak one.
I tried having faith in people as a whole but that backfired epically.
All I can do is have faith in myself. It's definitely not a full time deal and I've had many many wobbles.... and probably a few more to come. I can hope I don't, I can hope the worldly inhabitants somehow have the same morals, values and interpretations but that would be foolish.
Instead I hope for small victories like the meal I'm cooking doesn't taste like shit, the flowers bloom a beautiful bloom, or that Placebo tour again and I manage to get a ticket, whilst maintaining faith in myself to make good moral choices and valuing things that are good for my soul and the souls of others.
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By *20cplMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
" I don't practise it but I still follow the principle of it.. so be kind to others, respect, love and all that "
This.
I don't follow any religion but brought up Christian, I think I stopped going to church at 13.
I totally believe in evolution and don't subscribe to the creation theory but sometimes, just sometimes, I think all this is just too perfect for something not to have a hand in it whether it's a higher being or more likely than not, another alien race! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle."
I'm not one of them, but plenty of people do.
You can have your own, different beliefs without putting down those of others =) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle.
I'm not one of them, but plenty of people do.
You can have your own, different beliefs without putting down those of others =) "
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Well I wouldn’t say it changed, perhaps where I am now, was there subconsciously from the beginning. I was very curious , always felt like that part of puzzle never been right so I end up reading all religious books then read several philosophy, science and history books based on religions and doctrines. I also practiced few religions during my 20s. I finally come to a point that I’m in peace with my beliefs and feel lucky that I managed to follow my own path on that instead of imposed one by the public or traditions. I could say the whole process from my curiosity to become happy with the knowledge, took me 15yrs so no, It was not quick or easy |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories "
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology. |
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Mr here
Grew up in a very Catholic environment, plenty of nuns and priests in my wider family.
Early teens I just slowly stopped believing until I finally came to the conclusion it was all rubbish. Keeping in mind this was around the time all the child abuse scandals were coming out so that certainly helped the veil slip some what.
I spent a bit of time being very anti religion but now oddly I'm sort of envious of people who believe.
On a side note I don't buy the whole religious wars argument some people make implying the world would be a beautiful peaceful place without religion. Have wars and terrible things been carried out in the name of religion? Absolutely. Have people found non religious reasons to do horrible things? Absolutely |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology."
Now you’re getting onto the question of epistemological truth versus ontological truth!
I don’t expect that to be settled on this forum. It’s a debate that’s been running for centuries  |
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I grew up with C of E maternal side and Catholic paternal side.
Went to alternate Sunday schools depending on which grandparents we were visiting that weekend.
I don't believe in most religious representations of an omnipresent God, but do have a spiritual leaning. I tend to practise a mix of Pagan or Wiccan rituals when I need grounding.
I enjoy learning about religion though, and will always visit places of worship when I'm in an unfamiliar area regardless of the belief. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology."
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
Now you’re getting onto the question of epistemological truth versus ontological truth!
I don’t expect that to be settled on this forum. It’s a debate that’s been running for centuries "
Hmmm not deliberately I assure you... I have to go away and read what they mean... But I'm sure I'll be wiser having done so. |
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By *Vine OP Man
over a year ago
The right place |
"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered "
I’m going to hate myself for being so pedantic but science is the study of life and energy and matter. Science (The study itself) only exists as long as people do, even though all the matter and energy etc would continue to exist whether we studied it or not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered
I’m going to hate myself for being so pedantic but science is the study of life and energy and matter. Science (The study itself) only exists as long as people do, even though all the matter and energy etc would continue to exist whether we studied it or not. "
fair enough - so what is the over arching term for the interaction and behaviour of the energy and matter if its not science? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too.
the reason that you have given of needing something to look forward to would suggest to me that its not that you can’t believe we become nothing its that you dont want to because that belief would make you uncomfortable
ironically if i could choose my belief i would choose a faith- i think its a real nice thing to have and wish i did - i just cant make my brain accept it "
No. Others reason have persuaded me and suggested that there is more.
But your right. I would be uncomfortable if I had proof there is nothing after.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
What do you believe in then? Can I ask you that?
*j know I just did.
That's a broad question. I believe in science, I've spent years studying the formation of earth and how it works, along with evolution (I'm a palaeontologist with a background in geology). I don't think there's a 'creator'.
As for what happens when we die, I don't think anything happens, we just no longer exist. Our bodies decay and that's all there is to it.
m
That bit at the end. I can not believe this. I understand why you and others do, but wow. I just wouldn’t have anything to look forward to last what I can do whilst I am alive now. (Does that make sense)
I lean toward the force (or some would call it spiritual). I believe in souls. So you can understand where we will not agree with each other.
I also love science, so I contradict my self too.
the reason that you have given of needing something to look forward to would suggest to me that its not that you can’t believe we become nothing its that you dont want to because that belief would make you uncomfortable
ironically if i could choose my belief i would choose a faith- i think its a real nice thing to have and wish i did - i just cant make my brain accept it
No. Others reason have persuaded me and suggested that there is more.
But your right. I would be uncomfortable if I had proof there is nothing after.
"
interesting that you said proof of nothing because i guess that also doesn’t exist so in that way atheism exists as a belief just the same that any religion does
i had always considered it be a lack of belief til now |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered "
Yeah you're right. Somebody has labelled the force of attraction between two masses as gravity. And that force has not been man made but would exist if people observed it or not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
No. Others reason have persuaded me and suggested that there is more.
But your right. I would be uncomfortable if I had proof there is nothing after.
interesting that you said proof of nothing because i guess that also doesn’t exist so in that way atheism exists as a belief just the same that any religion does
i had always considered it be a lack of belief til now "
That’s a very valid point. Can atheism be a religion then? |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered "
My fault for taking us down this rat hole.. I guess I disagreed with the simplistic phrase used above about religion causing wars and science not lying that's all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
"
I disagree. Religion may cause conflict, but no major wars have ever been fought purely on religious grounds. Even the Crusades a thousand years ago were as much about control of lucrative trade routes like the Silk Road as they were about religion.
Science may not lie, but scientists do. |
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle.
I'm not one of them, but plenty of people do.
You can have your own, different beliefs without putting down those of others =) "
How was that putting anyone down?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered
My fault for taking us down this rat hole.. I guess I disagreed with the simplistic phrase used above about religion causing wars and science not lying that's all. "
no its fine it turns out my terminology was also wrong - but i guess what i was wrongly articulating is that whatever the particles are doing they would still be doing without scientists so in that way it is not possible for science (which is the wrong word) to lie |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle.
I'm not one of them, but plenty of people do.
You can have your own, different beliefs without putting down those of others =)
How was that putting anyone down?
"
twaddle?  insinuating that it would be ridiculous for people to hold those beliefs? |
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"Science doesnt lie, religion causes wars
Science doesn't lie? Interesting. Science comes to us through people. Some people lie. Some scientists lie the same as anyone else. To achieve funding, to make their case, to meet the requirements of their egos or their political masters.
science snd scientists are not the same thing though - one is human and capable of lies the other is just a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves theories
Sure but without scientists science doesn't exist. How would we know about any of it? History is littered with examples of scientists making shit up for their own benefit. Science on its own is similar to a language with no spoken or written evidence.
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. 2a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the science of theology.
okay actually based on what you have said i realise what i said was wrong -
written evidence of science is a collection of experimental data which proves or disproves a theory - not actually the science itself
scientists do not create science they only record it, science actually exists all around us and would still do so even if there were no scientists - gravity for example was not invented it was discovered
My fault for taking us down this rat hole.. I guess I disagreed with the simplistic phrase used above about religion causing wars and science not lying that's all.
no its fine it turns out my terminology was also wrong - but i guess what i was wrongly articulating is that whatever the particles are doing they would still be doing without scientists so in that way it is not possible for science (which is the wrong word) to lie "
May the force be with you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle."
I don't believe in any of it but know many who do, close family members who have found faith after certain events and it brings them comfort and closure.
It hasn't changed my mind but if helps people then good for them.
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Imagine that we live in a world without religion of any sort.
Then one day someone comes along and tries to convince people to believe in God and everything that comes along with it.
I honestly believe people would probably piss themselves laughing at that person and give them a nice stay in the local asylum.
A previous thread a believer's only argument against everything was.
Prove that he doesn't exist.
You can't reason with logic like that.
I was brought up Christan but as soon as I was old enough I realized that with all the pain and suffering that I went through as a kid and my family God couldn't possibly exist.
I have children and would never ever put them through even 1% of what "GOD" has put us his supposed children through.
Absolute nonsense.
My only belief is in the kindness and strength of the human heart and spirit.
This is nothing to do with religion but everything to do with love. |
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"No, my family are Christian but I've never believed in god. It must be great to be able to believe in something like that, I always think it must be super comforting. But I'm a scientist, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it.
I've made my peace with that, and I think it's important that everyone should feel able to believe what they like, and tolerate different beliefs in others.
100% this
Ditto, I grew up with a devoutly Christian mum so I did the whole church every Sunday morning, Easter and Christmas services etc too. But I just don't believe, you can't just expect people to believe all these wonders and miracles with zero evidence. I've maintained that I'm open to the idea if somebody can prove to me that there's a benevolent deity with a master plan for everyone but until then I'll still with science
LvM"
Same for us both. We're scientists but both raised as some flavour of Christian and attended Church schools etc. We don't feel the need to "believe" in anything. We follow the evidence and empirical data that science generates. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Please tell us that nobody actually believes any of that twaddle.
I'm not one of them, but plenty of people do.
You can have your own, different beliefs without putting down those of others =)
How was that putting anyone down?
twaddle? insinuating that it would be ridiculous for people to hold those beliefs? "
I was going to say exactly this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I was raised as a Catholic. Went to church every Sunday. I sang in the church choir and was even an alter boy for a bit. Attended a catholic secondary school.
During my teenage years I found myself questioning the people that were preaching to me. It could have been the parish priest or my RE teacher. Often I would find contradictions in what they were saying. This lead to some interesting situations as often the people I questioned did not like me challenging them or pointing out the inconsistencies in what they were saying/preaching.
I did however get to meet some fantastic priests who welcomed debate with open arms. I found these priests to be more knowledgeable on subject matter and were also more in touch with everyday people. If anything I would say they were more about spirituality rather than following the instructions of a man in a funny hat.
In the end I walked away from the church.
While I am no longer religious I would probably class myself as a humanist now.
Humanism holds many of the same principles as the religions of the world but without the need for blind faith.
K |
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My faith has increased over time but you wouldnt know it if you just looked. Im Muslim, a lot of the requirements I dont do, a lot I do. Like some of those before me, i have a science background, mine is in astrophysics. For me, studying astrophysics is where my faith increased. Seeing data thats related to things that is so unique and the probability of such things being what they are, pushed my faith towards rather than away. Ive never been devout in anyway and expected science to put an end to what little I had, but the opposite happened. My a-level teacher (the education kind, not the other kind you naughty people), he was an Oxford grad. physicist who got more "religious" during his studies.
I also recognise that there is a bias in this, which is akin to survivor bias.
At the end of the day, the two are independant of each other. You cant have faith if you use the scientific method on something, because it becomes science then. One uses evidence the other "hope".
Quick sides:
Science doesnt lie per se, but the lack of knowledge can give bad information e.g. ultraviolet catastrophe.
The misuse of information can lead to bad roads e.g. flat earth or the statement religion causes wars. |
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By *pertureTV/TS
over a year ago
New Ferry, wirral in stockings and sussies |
grew up a christian went to church every week till i was about 12, when after reading the bible twice realised it had that many contradictions and inconsistancies in it that it was basicaly made up shit, now athiest.
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