FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Disability allowance

Disability allowance

By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

The government are rightly coming down on the workshy but having just watched dispatches they must be the most heartless government in British history. If you can use 1 finger you are fit for work even if you are on chemo for cancer you can be deemed fit for work some doctors are saying they are amazed that their patients are passed as fit for work.

I didnt pay much attention to the ins and outs of the new assessments but it seems to me they are designed to make sure no one is eligible for disability allowance.

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By *ouple4funnewCouple over a year ago

liverpool

"The government are rightly coming down on the workshy "

The Royals?

about time!

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"The government are rightly coming down on the workshy

The Royals?

about time!"

The number of sucessful appealshas rocketed - just seems they are putting more hoops out for people to jump through

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Its years of liars and cheat who have cheater the system out of billions of pounds... Its not fair that the ones most in need are being treated the way they are... Trust me after a statement I heard today from a member of the public wanting my assistance regarding housing benefit she stated that her rent is free and she is claiming what she is entitled to then proceeded to say why don't I pay off her rent arrears if I am that bothered about it..She was quite happy to state that she got free rent so why should she pay off her arrears....

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I didnt pay much attention to the ins and outs of the new assessments but it seems to me they are designed to make sure no one is eligible for disability allowance. "

They are. It was in the paper at the weekend that ATOS is telling docs not to pass people. The more ATOS saves, the more profit they make from their contract with the Government.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its years of liars and cheat who have cheater the system out of billions of pounds... Its not fair that the ones most in need are being treated the way they are... Trust me after a statement I heard today from a member of the public wanting my assistance regarding housing benefit she stated that her rent is free and she is claiming what she is entitled to then proceeded to say why don't I pay off her rent arrears if I am that bothered about it..She was quite happy to state that she got free rent so why should she pay off her arrears...."

Billions? Are you sure about that?

And benefit fraud is small fry compared to tax avoidence but it's easier to stigmatise the most vulnerable in society.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I got nothing when I had cancer and was being treated with chemo/radio therapies surgery etc. Why? because my kid had been left some money from his dads will.

The DSSS classed it as my income/savings so wouldn't pay me anything. I tried to explain to the DSSS that it wasn't mine and if it wasn't in my son's account by the time he was 18 yrs old he could legally charge me with theft but they would have none of it.

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By *ouple4funnewCouple over a year ago

liverpool

it amazes me the hate and bile people have for a few cheaters promoted by the press for political reasons rather than the hundreds of billions the banking sector cheats and huge tax evaders are truley costing this country and destroying its very social fabric in the process!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I got nothing when I had cancer and was being treated with chemo/radio therapies surgery etc. Why? because my kid had been left some money from his dads will.

Thats diabolical, they hit the wrong people as per usual.xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I didnt pay much attention to the ins and outs of the new assessments but it seems to me they are designed to make sure no one is eligible for disability allowance.

They are. It was in the paper at the weekend that ATOS is telling docs not to pass people. The more ATOS saves, the more profit they make from their contract with the Government."

My GP has known me for years and has assessed my physical and mental capabilities to work over those years. He does not think I am fit enough yet. However, ATOS gave me an assessment over 15 minutes and removed any allowances I had and deemed me fit to work. They get paid a bonus for every person they remove from benefits.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I don't like bankers but I am anwering about benefit cheats...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And the person who assessed me fit for work is not a GP but a nurse.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I didnt pay much attention to the ins and outs of the new assessments but it seems to me they are designed to make sure no one is eligible for disability allowance.

They are. It was in the paper at the weekend that ATOS is telling docs not to pass people. The more ATOS saves, the more profit they make from their contract with the Government.

Payment by results!

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

I totaly agree with you but these rich cheats and liars are government friendly no matter who the goverment happens to be at the time so nothing going to be done to upset them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's depressing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I actually have been to appeal today and failed i had 14 points on the way in and had none when i came out,my representative said he was gonna press for the one point i needed,by using reg.29 which is where he believes me looking for work would cause me more problems than not looking for work,looking at this program tonight, they say they are independent and not for the dwp or the person involved but judging by the tv they are trained not to give this benefit out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I actually have been to appeal today and failed i had 14 points on the way in and had none when i came out,my representative said he was gonna press for the one point i needed,by using reg.29 which is where he believes me looking for work would cause me more problems than not looking for work,looking at this program tonight, they say they are independent and not for the dwp or the person involved but judging by the tv they are trained not to give this benefit out"

When you consider the mere fact you have had a shower washed your hair and are wearing clean clothes counts as points against you.

I still have my appeal letter and notes and am gobsmacked at the way in which they assess you even before your physical examination.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When you consider the mere fact you have had a shower washed your hair and are wearing clean clothes counts as points against you.

I still have my appeal letter and notes and am gobsmacked at the way in which they assess you even before your physical examination. "

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By *ncMan over a year ago

Dudley

Benefit fraud is wrong, no question. It's also in our faces more because of the press, Daily Mail in particular. It costs somewhere around 1 billion a year. Tax avoidence is also wrong, no question. It is less publicised and costs somewhere around 15 billion a year.

What do people think should be the priority given the current economic situation?

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It is rather depressing that being able to make toast for breakfast means that you are perfectly able to work and not entitled to anything.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"Benefit fraud is wrong, no question. It's also in our faces more because of the press, Daily Mail in particular. It costs somewhere around 1 billion a year. Tax avoidence is also wrong, no question. It is less publicised and costs somewhere around 15 billion a year.

What do people think should be the priority given the current economic situation?"

Tax avoidance isnt illegal tho - it maybe morally wrong, governments need to close all the loopholes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is rather depressing that being able to make toast for breakfast means that you are perfectly able to work and not entitled to anything."

I drove myself to my assessment too .... big mistake! I had actually stopped off half way, had a rest and l_nch at my parents but yet again .... I was penalised, the office was only a five minute drive from my parents house.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was a nurse before becoming unable to work with MS. The NHS have employed ATOS to carry out the assessments for Ill Health Retirement and the result was that they judged me to be unfit to carry out my job or any other so had to retire. On applying for Employment & Support Allowance I was again assessed by ATOS and was assessed as being fit for work..this decision was overturned by an independent tribunal but caused much stress in the meantime.

I would love to still be able to do my job and didn't choose to be in this position, but the system makes you feel like a fraud for just applying for what you are entitled to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The problem here is too many people have limited knowledge which is drip fed to them. Depending on what they they read, and their political _iew point will have differing _iews. Without reading the full government paper on the subject its hard to make a statement one way or the others. These threads tend to turn sour.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sick to the back teeth of people trying to claim disability when they are cheating the system. We only have them to blame when genuinely disabled people are made to work and not believed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My dad was severely disabled after a car accident in 91 most days he struggles to make it round his own house without assistance and that is whilst using walkin aids too n he barely made it through his assessment this year, it really pisses me off that the liars n fakers means the some of the genuine cases get overlooked and neglected!

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"I was a nurse before becoming unable to work with MS. The NHS have employed ATOS to carry out the assessments for Ill Health Retirement and the result was that they judged me to be unfit to carry out my job or any other so had to retire. On applying for Employment & Support Allowance I was again assessed by ATOS and was assessed as being fit for work..this decision was overturned by an independent tribunal but caused much stress in the meantime.

I would love to still be able to do my job and didn't choose to be in this position, but the system makes you feel like a fraud for just applying for what you are entitled to."

Your case says a lot about the system b used, it seems they are using a different assesment procedure if you are applying for/recieving disability allowance.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The problem here is too many people have limited knowledge which is drip fed to them. Depending on what they they read, and their political _iew point will have differing _iews. Without reading the full government paper on the subject its hard to make a statement one way or the others. These threads tend to turn sour."

I asked for all the notes and assessment results which I was entitled to do, then showed them to my GP and he was appalled at what had been written on the back of a 15 minute appointment with an ex nurse who knew nothing about me or my medical history.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

sadly even so called experts will do as their paymaster bids

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was talking about media perception, and that they drip feed snippets. Without reading their full bill many only think.what.is fed to them.

I feel.for those genuinely affected,.and believe they should be looked after.

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By *oviemakerMan over a year ago

swansea

I believe government figures show that benefit cheats only account for one percent of claims.

Too many, yes, but why do some people believe the majority of claimants are cheating the system?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I believe government figures show that benefit cheats only account for one percent of claims.

Too many, yes, but why do some people believe the majority of claimants are cheating the system?

Because its what the media would have you believe.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

This government has been manipulating public opinion since it came to power, by turning the people of this country against each other, so that the people who should have the real attention put onto them, such as the government, the £billionaire tax avoiders etc, get let off the hook.

ATOS etc are costing the rest of us £millions, as the poor people who have to contest their 'fit to work' test result, end up being funded by the tax payer. Every one that appeals succesfully should have all costs paid for by ATOS, for being so crap at their work.

Anyone who jumps up and down at the 'workshy' etc, is just being used as a pawn. How the rich must laugh at us.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would love to still be able to do my job and didn't choose to be in this position, but the system makes you feel like a fraud for just applying for what you are entitled to.

Your case says a lot about the system b used, it seems they are using a different assesment procedure if you are applying for/recieving disability allowance."

The assessment criteria for the sickness benefits is very task orientated and tick box based..unfortunately variable conditions don't fit tick boxes as things can change on a day to day basis. I was relatively lucky as I got it sorted in the end and this year they decided not to send me for a medical, but I know a lot of people have had a much harder struggle to get the help they need and are entitled to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i know there are alot of people screwing the system and i`m all for removing the ones that don`t deserve it, but how can you remove people without taking into account all the medical evidence?

It now seems these people making judgements without even looking into any medical record, going to be a point where this will all backfire and start costing the goverment more than they can actually save. (these people surely still have human rights,and if after all the proper evidence is looked at, (not the crappy assessment they carry out).

Then if they are removed at least it was done fairly) ?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Thing is, the abuse rate of Disability Living Allowance, for example, is officially less than 0.5% (government's own statistic). This is paid to those in and out of work, and is not means tested.

There are enormous strains being put upon NHS consultants, GP's etc, due to the system not assessing people properly - this assessment all being done by ATOS, who have a multi-million pound contract. And they largely fail to take into account the professionals who know claimants etc, and who are largely significantly better qualified than the ATOS assessors. So, the public is wasting millions on assessments being undertaken, with a huge error rate, then we're having to pay to correct their errors, as well as having to pay NHS officials to have to re-do their work, re-submit evidence etc, all paid for by you and me. And outsourcing is supposed to be cost effective! We're either stupid, or being taken for being stupid.

There's no point in having professionals train for years, knowing their patients really well, and then ATOS not even bothering to look at the evidence submitted.

If there's one thing I would change, if it wasn't to stop these type of assessments, it would be to stop ATOS making £millions out of us for such a crap service. All this while many people being assessed as 'fit' for work are dieing each and every week. It's that bad! Not just a couple a year, but many tens of people are dead each week, after being assessed as 'fit'. Clearly ATOS are unfit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thing is, the abuse rate of Disability Living Allowance, for example, is officially less than 0.5% (government's own statistic). This is paid to those in and out of work, and is not means tested.

There's no point in having professionals train for years, knowing their patients really well, and then ATOS not even bothering to look at the evidence submitted.

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By *ove2-shareCouple over a year ago

South Gloucestershire

"The government are rightly coming down on the workshy

The Royals?

about time!"

LMFAO

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well I'm bout to lose my job and my wife who has m.s still has to work but having never claimed it seems my house will have to go as we can't afford mortgae

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Well I'm bout to lose my job and my wife who has m.s still has to work but having never claimed it seems my house will have to go as we can't afford mortgae"

Sorry to hear that, I hope things get better, and you keep your home at least! My friend has MS, and I know how awful it can be.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

i dont know what ATOS is can someone explain please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i dont know what ATOS is can someone explain please"

ATOS is the company that the govt contracted to carry out the assessments for Employment & Support Allowance which is the replacement for Incapacity Benefit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I'm bout to lose my job and my wife who has m.s still has to work but having never claimed it seems my house will have to go as we can't afford mortgae"

Sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If someone manages to con the govt out of a few hundred quid every week then good bloody luck to them. Unitl the govt treats everyone equally - rich & poor alike - they'll get no support from me over plans to curb so-called benefit fraud. Give someone a real reason to get an go to work, like raising the minimum wage to something more realistic like £8/hour, and many will soon come off benefits. For those who are genuinely unfit to work but are being denied the benefits they've come to rely on because some ex-nurse wants to save a few quid.. fookin lie to them! Tell them whatever you need to tell them to keep your benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A man in a coma was assessed as fit for work a while ago by default as he didn't return his assessment form...

His wife had contacted ATOS and explained but he still got a letter saying he'd been found fit to work.

So, if you're well enough to fill out the form, you can work (so it seems) and if you aren't well enough to fill out the form, you are found fit to work by default because you didn't fill out the form...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And if you have any kind of mental illness you may as well forget it.

Since depression, bi-polar disorder, and a slew of other mental illnesses don't necessarily hamper your movement you have no chance of remaining on the esa or dla despite the fact you are completely incapable of working.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Going to one of these assessments is soul destroying and having to plead your case when all the medical evidence is available ,yet they dispute it is also hard .

I loved my job and hated giving it up and if i could work now i would but i cant.

You are made to feel worthless and a drain on the state yet i worked solidly since i was 16 to now and never claimed anything.

I actually lost my temper when i went and told them what i thought of the young woman asking me this and that.

And told them they could shove their money up their arse.

I was amazed when i got mine

I still cant understand how they can happily ignore surgeons and consultants and your own doctor, in favour of someone not qualified

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The government are rightly coming down on the workshy

The Royals?

about time!"

Will you be up til 1am working when you're 86?

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By *rokengirlWoman over a year ago

Somewhere

This is a really dodgy subject.

the amount of people who can work and feign illness not to work make it so hard for the genuine people.... The whole system is under re_iew and will change next year when new universal credit is introduced

Put it this way in my office of 100 people we have two blind guys who works on telephone using a computer all adapted for them. Two wheel chair users one of whom brings her assist dog into work with her, and several people on walking sticks etc... Not saying everyone is in this position but this just shows that having a disability does not automatically rule you out of ever being able to work again

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Brokengirl, this I understand. Some people wish to have the benefit just to tide them over till they are fit and able to work yet are made to feel a drain and workshy because they have to, not because they choose to. xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Brokengirl, this I understand. Some people wish to have the benefit just to tide them over till they are fit and able to work yet are made to feel a drain and workshy because they have to, not because they choose to. xxx"

If my surgeon works miracles in october and im fitter next year, i most definately wanna go back to work.

There are and always will be those who are workshy and scroungers, its just sad that those who need it most, have to fight the hardest.

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By *rokengirlWoman over a year ago

Somewhere

Oh I agree with you everyday I speak to both ends of the scale from the person claiming sickness for years with no major health problems but somehow avoiding all the checks to people just out of work and are made to jump through hoops just to prove entitlement and im often the one helping them pick up the pieces when it doesn't work in there favour.... I just felt the programme tonight was rather one sided and didn't highlight the many examples of people that are working with disability and the help they get from dwp to do this

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

People can work with disabilities ,they can work with illness its just far too many choose not too and rely on handouts . I watched the programme and agree with a few points. They were saying you only have one arm you still can work and i believe is right,fair enough there is not enough jobs to go around but look what the paralympics achieve and thousands of disabaled so why cant these people get off there arses and achieve more than claiming every benefit they think they are entitled too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unfortunately, not many workplaces are so accomadating when it comes to looking after a disabled worker and have no wish to spend money to make it safe for them to do so.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unfortunately, not many workplaces are so accomadating when it comes to looking after a disabled worker and have no wish to spend money to make it safe for them to do so.

I do hope that those shouting the loudest about those disabled people NOT working, never find themselves in the same position .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And then you have my mums next door neighbour who goes around in a wheelchair while he thinks he is being watched. Then can dig blooming great holes to make a 10ft pond run up and down ladders to put up cctv cameras and drive taxis all through the night when he's not.

On the other hand you get my daughters friend who was told he was fit to go back to work, he had a heart attack the next day. You've guessed it he was still told he was fit enough 2 days after

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"This is a really dodgy subject.

No it doesn't but it can make it a) difficult to find work, b) difficult to keep work and c) difficult to do some jobs. Different conditions affect people in a multitude of ways. I am able to work with my condition, now, but when I first became ill 20 years ago I was unable to walk or use my hands and felt total exhaustion all the time. I was 'lucky' in that I had sick leave I could take and an employer that allowed me to return to work part-time until I was fully recovered. They didn't make it entirely easy but their systems were fair and the Occupational Health assessment matched what the GP and consultant had reported. Others I have met were not so lucky and those being diagnosed now and having to make a claim find that the nature of the illness means that the day of assessment they may be relatively well and so fail.

No employer wants or can cope with employees that are well for half a day one week, none another and well a whole week on another long term unless the employment is sheltered in some way. You have to be at least consistently able to perform the task to be truly able to be employed.

I do have a fundamental problem with private sector firms making such large profits on public sector contracts that are paid by results. The profit motive and the 'customer' being the Government creates a situation where the cost of everything but the value of nothing is known. The costs are just shifted to another department, not really managed or reduced.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Pity they don't stop the money for the drugies and the piss heads who can't work coz they are pissed all day and drugged up

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By *rokengirlWoman over a year ago

Somewhere

So much I could say but not able to.

Honestly I have seen both ends if the scale and I know the system is flawed and abused by the few which does make it harder for the genuine.

I'm very lucky my emPloyer will support long term illness and disability and do everything they can do to help you remain at work... Sometimes that's as simple as extra breaks or if needed reducing hours but the support is there.

To everyone on this post with health problems I really do wish you all the best.

Ps my best advice is when going for a medical never drive there..if faced with lift and stairs always take the lift As they are assessing every moment and answer the questions as if it's your worst day you have experienced with your illness x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If someone manages to con the govt out of a few hundred quid every week then good bloody luck to them. Unitl the govt treats everyone equally - rich & poor alike - they'll get no support from me over plans to curb so-called benefit fraud. Give someone a real reason to get an go to work, like raising the minimum wage to something more realistic like £8/hour, and many will soon come off benefits. For those who are genuinely unfit to work but are being denied the benefits they've come to rely on because some ex-nurse wants to save a few quid.. fookin lie to them! Tell them whatever you need to tell them to keep your benefits.

it would be great if the minimum wage was higher but most small business wont be able to afford any staff..

even now i know many small business owners who put in the work of three poeple and the hours of two.. just to make ends meet.

many will say that it's a failing business and they should give, but that isn't a option when you have invested your future and all you savings into it.

if wages go up so do the price of all goods and services.. who wins after. the fat cats..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know of someone who used to have a great, well paid job. They became ill and didn't work for 3 years because of depression. They finally got prescribed the right meds, after a lot of trial and error, and did a cognitive behavioural therapy course.

Before the course had even finished, they saw a perfect job advertised locally, applied and got it, being totally honest about their depression.

The job required background checks but they had been totally honest and had no history of doing anything that would be a problem, so they were not concerned. They signed the contract and waited (months) for the formalities to be completed.

That caused benefit problems because although they clearly weren't too ill to work (so no Incapacity Benefit) they were not available to look for work as they'd signed a contract (so no unemployment benefit). There wasn't, unbelievably, any provision for this in the system.

A week or two before the background checks were completed, HR decided, apparently randomly, to request a medical report. It said the person had been treated for depression but was in full remission. No other problems, (person had already passed company's own health check).

Despite already knowing this, and despite the job being one the person could do standing on their head, HR withdrew the job offer.

The person's psychiatrist wrote a report saying the job would not be a problem and would be more likely to protect against a relapse but the company would not budge.

The person took them to a tribunal on principle. The company wheeled out a team of lawyers and dragged everything out for a year. The stress and disappointment ultimately caused the person to have a full relapse. The company offered a pittance to settle just before the tribunal date and the person was advised by their legal representative to take it, as they were too ill to go to court by then.

The company got off almost scot free and still have "investors in people" and "positive about disabled people" awards on their website.

The person ended up a wreck for several years. Agoraphobic, feeling like they were totally worthless and would be eternally stigmatised and discriminated against. They developed anxiety, OCD, and an eating disorder. They're only just starting to get back on track now. It's taken years.

It would have been much sooner if they'd been offered the support they needed from the welfare system instead of being constantly hassled to attend assessments, having benefit stopped, having to appeal, and the rest.

Even now, starting to thing about returning to work, they have panic attacks from the memories of the last time they applied for a job, and how much worse a situation it left them in. They feel despairing that anyone would ever give them a decent job. They feel that having worked hard for an education and having got a good job prior to getting ill, they've now been assigned to the scrap heap with no hope of anything but poorly paid, boring menial work and a lifetime of disrespect and marginalisation.

They want to work, but doing what they trained to do. When their benefit pays more than a menial job, and they don't think anyone would offer them anything better, it's difficult to get over the hurdle and say they want to look for work.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ohhhhh, that was waay long.

tl;dr Sometimes people try and end up more broken as a result. It's easy to get trapped in the 'welfare' system and dragged down and down. It should be helping people up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This is a really dodgy subject.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

doesnt matter how much authority comes down on someone.

rules can be bent.

laws can be broken.

and all it does is make people desperate. and then people do desperate deeds.

crime pays for a reason.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I work for a housing association and it never ceases to amaze me how some people who really do need disability benefits and some that don't, one in particular is a gentleman who has put on weight over the years through over eating, not because he is ill, and doesn't give a shit that he is ripping off the benefits system and demands everyone jump to it when he calls. I wouldn't object to him having disability benefits if he was massively overweight through ill health but he isn't, it is all self inflicted. Then there are those who we have to fight tooth and nail to get extra benefits but get turned down all the time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am currently chatting with a female who is in Hospital with a BMI of 9 and weight of 4 stone she has Refractory Coeliac Disease and is now bedbound relies very much on others and has now been reassessed and lost some benefits. The company employed by the Government are Atos, French in origin and totally ruthless, its not a case of what is wrong with you it is what you can do while at an assessment. They also lie on documents and do not have one o_nce of honesty amongst them I (him)have attended six of these assessments and all overturned at Tribunal now they have removed me so no more assessments....CORRUPT or what?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

For someone who has recently opened their own small business venture Wishy, I am to be honest a little surprised at your suggestion that the minimum wage should be raised to £8 an hour....

You clearly haven't got to the stage where you are employing people, otherwise you would have a little more understanding of the pressures that a 25% rise in the wage bill for a small business would mean.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"People can work with disabilities ,they can work with illness its just far too many choose not too and rely on handouts . I watched the programme and agree with a few points. They were saying you only have one arm you still can work and i believe is right,fair enough there is not enough jobs to go around but look what the paralympics achieve and thousands of disabaled so why cant these people get off there arses and achieve more than claiming every benefit they think they are entitled too "

There are many who for health reasons may be able through telling lies gain employment but will they be able to keep it........

Question..Would you employ a person that can have a panic attack because an allergen has triggered it? this will last up to eight hours and it cannot be predicted.This then leads to other symptoms like plenty of time in the toilet, need for medication and first aid. End result could mean at least two weeks full recovery, how are your staffing levels/production etc. There are other ways to save cash but will loose votes, Single mums....a big industry and self inflicted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For someone who has recently opened their own small business venture Wishy, I am to be honest a little surprised at your suggestion that the minimum wage should be raised to £8 an hour....

On the contrary Jane, I do understand the pressures small businesses face but why should the men & women who work hard to earn the company they work for a decent level of profits get paid peanuts to ensure that. If a business makes 10% once all expenditure and taxes have been taken into consideration then that's still a profit - or are they entitled to higher profit levels? I'll remind you at this point how the public feel about British Gas et al posting record profits of 25%-35% to the tune of £bns. How much is enough? And more importantly, why aren't those doing the work getting the lion's share of it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And more importantly, why aren't those doing the work getting the lion's share of it?"

Because there are more at the bottom, cheaper to give the majority of profit to the top few as it supports their golden handshake when they fail.

Is it profit or just plain greed?

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By *issNaughtyxxxWoman over a year ago

Aberdeen

Im a disabled young lady, i was on DLA for 4years and now i work as many hour's as i possible can as i don't want to be seen a scrounging off the government or not putting into the system. However sometimes im physically spewing my gut's up after therapy or unable to move as my muscles are having intense spasm or due to surgery.

It frustrates me that other's cheat the system which means each year i have to put together a report to prove im disabled and have to get my GP, Surgeon's, carer, therapist's to write in my cause. It's alway's upsets me as it highlight's how disabled i'am and i feel like im constantly being judged.

I fought 3 hard years to learn to drive and managed to be awarded a Motobility car. Without this car my quality of life would not be so high and my independence would be none exsistent. Im prepared to do all the files etc as i have nothing to hide but it's emotionall draining at times.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Naughty25 you have our sympathy and well done. "Him" is the other way around worked for 44+years with many hours of overtime to take home a reasonable wage, managed to buy own home now in a position that does not seem to be understood by Medical people. Have just discharged himself from a consultant because his treatment only makes him worse. The people who decide your befefits are called 'Decision Makers' I do not believe are qualified in anything and are guided by the "DWP Decision Makers Guide" which is very very basic and does not cover basic medical complaints. As long as you can lift your arms and legs you are fine.Should you have any of the criteria to be awarded benefit you will be assessed for another benefit and then your claim will be disallowed. Goodbye! claim again if your condition gets worse....what a joke////same crap given

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I couldn't claim sickness benefit as ATOS passed me fit to work, but when I tried to sign for JSA they refused as they said I wasn't fit to work.

And they wonder about the mental instability of some people .... they cause it!

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

For someone who has recently opened their own small business venture Wishy, I am to be honest a little surprised at your suggestion that the minimum wage should be raised to £8 an hour....

The minimum wage isn't reserved for those working for big companies with 'fat cat' bosses though is it?

Tens of thousands of small businesses employ those on minimum wage as well, a 25% increase in liability for them could prove catastrophic.

Perhaps if and when your new business gets to the point of employing people you may have a better understanding of the implications of such an increase.

As a fledgling business you are still riding the excitement wave, that's natural, but later you may well feel differently.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

For someone who has recently opened their own small business venture Wishy, I am to be honest a little surprised at your suggestion that the minimum wage should be raised to £8 an hour....

Wishy,

your sounding a tad 'liberal socialist' of late..

has the penny dropped perhaps..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"I couldn't claim sickness benefit as ATOS passed me fit to work, but when I tried to sign for JSA they refused as they said I wasn't fit to work.

And they wonder about the mental instability of some people .... they cause it!

That's the problem with employing some cowboy outfit like ATOS to run the tests, costing us £millions. If we'd had joined up government, including its various agencies, all assessing equally well, then you would have been either found fit for work, or not, rather than variously, depending on which outfit assesses you.

I refer to ATOS as cowboy like, due to their incredibly high error rate, where a huge no of people assessed as fit for work, by their computer system test, later - should they have the energy/will to live, go on to the appeals process, having the ATOS assessment overturned. The public pays for ATOS to assess, currently they'll earn £1,000,000,000 from us tax payers - then we have the costs of all the tribunals, more NHS costs as people get evidence to attempt to overturn ATOS decisions etc. I'm assuming this could easily run to another £billion or more. The real cost is those who have taken their lives, or their lives fall apart, as their health suffers from the stress of it all, they have no money to live on etc. One suicide is one too many!

I also dislike how many more companies seem to now regard the minimum wage as a standard wage to pay. I think I'd prefer that they'd have to justify paying the 'minimum', when it really should be exactly that. Perhaps it's time for wage co_ncils or some body etc, being set up, comprised of workers and others, who have to be applied to and convinced and give approval, each and every time somebody is to be paid the minimum wage. Trying to think outside of the box here, as we seem to be racing to the bottom, as with pensions etc.

The government's own figures for DLA abuse is 0.5%, so even that isn't a major justification for putting people through hell.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A good example of an Atos assessment (not medicals) is having gone through the yes and not doing that, I present three actual happening documents describing a "Panic attack" (different dates) not even read by the ?healthcare professional and awarded "was hostile throughout assessment" but may return to work within three months.

One breadcrumb = 17days of grief for me in many ways, never mind you can lift an arm or a leg.IDIOTS and they may want me to go back....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And then you have my mums next door neighbour who goes around in a wheelchair while he thinks he is being watched. Then can dig blooming great holes to make a 10ft pond run up and down ladders to put up cctv cameras and drive taxis all through the night when he's not.

On the other hand you get my daughters friend who was told he was fit to go back to work, he had a heart attack the next day. You've guessed it he was still told he was fit enough 2 days after

if you feel the guy is defrauding the system then report him. The dsss investigators will catch him out..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"A good example of an Atos assessment (not medicals) is having gone through the yes and not doing that, I present three actual happening documents describing a "Panic attack" (different dates) not even read by the ?healthcare professional and awarded "was hostile throughout assessment" but may return to work within three months.

One breadcrumb = 17days of grief for me in many ways, never mind you can lift an arm or a leg.IDIOTS and they may want me to go back...."

It really is so very wrong how these assessments have ignored so much medical evidence, and have increased stress levels, general ill health, through their very wilful insistence not to incorporate what proper medical experts really know about, and especially when they really know their patients too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if you feel the guy is defrauding the system then report him. The dsss investigators will catch him out.."

The Term is "Compliance Officer" which usually investigate following a phone call so if you do not like your friends or neighbours make a call.

Yes there are far more fleecing the system and the system has been changed and so far only catching recent claims.

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By *exybabyMan over a year ago

Canterbury....ish

Ummmm....interesting and contentious.

It must be noted that those that make the rules do not suffer by them!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is it not surprising how one doctor/consultant can say one thing and a registered nurse can say different. How can you trust such a system?

Maybe the registered nurse convinced me that I should discharge myself from the Professor's clinic because she knows more.

but has no idea of a 'panic attack'

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Some very deserved cases and worthy of every penny and more

Some fraudsters who should be caught, dealt with and any money taken be paid back.

The savings from the fraudsters be given to the worthy cases

I would be as bold as to suggest most on here will know of someone who is bucking the system.

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By *ornyAndHung4FunMan over a year ago

Lisburn

It astonishes me that people with cancer and serious heart or mental health issues are being rejected on these assessments, yet people who drink or inject themselves with heroin daily are deemed to ill to work.

I do believe drug or alcohol abuse is an illness which needs professional help to overcome, although it's very different illness than having cancer eat away at your internal organs.

We live in a society that rewards drug and alcohol abuse, which is also very much crime related, from fraud to shopping lifting to muggings, to assualts to many forms of criminality. Although i would never dare tar all abusers with the same brush.

But the fact that they seem more entitled to help, support and monies than terminally ill people is a total disgrace.

I have a fair few money saving ideas,

Sack half the government,

Pull troops out of foreign wars,

Cut benefits of people involved in criminality,

Royal family bye bye,

And tear up the billion pound contract of the idiots doing these assessments!

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By *ornyAndHung4FunMan over a year ago

Lisburn

The biggest benefit cheats of all is David Cameroon and his government

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am just starting to do my daughters new assessment for disability.. She has actually got a FOR LIFE allowance, however because she turns 16 next month she has to have a formal new assessment.. I have been told that while she will EVENTUALLY get it.. that It is possible it will take a lot of work.

She does not manage in school without assistance, needs help with washing and dressing herself and has both mental and physical disabilities.. but I still have to go through all this to re get her money..

Cali

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Damn, I love topics like this and would write reems about those bloody royals...bankers...government and work-o-phobic people, but it's all been said by you lot lol damn damn and damn!!! Why didn't i log on earlier

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why do they not convert a disused army camp into an assessment centre and sort out some of these alcoholic/drug overweight people out?

It is a human right to care for ones health not a human right to sponge....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do they not convert a disused army camp into an assessment centre and sort out some of these alcoholic/drug overweight people out?

It is a human right to care for ones health not a human right to sponge...."

Send them to the front line to earn their way through life! I did hear that the government are trying to get those on the dole to do voluntary work in order to receive benefits...however, I feel that this will have a knock on effect with people in paid jobs. Will employers get these volunteers in for cheap labour....this will then impact on the issue at hand with how on earth people coming off the disability allowance would ever find a job. Needle and haystack come to mind!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's all the junkies n alcoholics and also the ones tht kid on thr disabled tht spoil it for all the ones who need help and of coarse everyone gets tared with the same brush

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"I am just starting to do my daughters new assessment for disability.. She has actually got a FOR LIFE allowance, however because she turns 16 next month she has to have a formal new assessment.. I have been told that while she will EVENTUALLY get it.. that It is possible it will take a lot of work.

Cali "

Cali - you may be able to get some assistance with the claim form filling etc, from a benefits centre/CAB specialist etc. Sounds like you know what you're doing, but sometimes just the odd word 'wrong' can affect so called assessment quite wildly.

Good luck for you and your daughter!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The big problem with DLA is that it is decided upon by non professional people from a DWP Decision makers guide (you can access it.)

I(him) has what has been described as "although very rare" condition with associated ailments yet cannot even get considered. Next phased is the Tribunal where a GP (probably no practice or retired) is there to up his income and does not always know about your condition or its effects but does have an opinion. Not in your favour of course. So how do you get a benefit today? you can't turn the clock back where it was so easy.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

" I did hear that the government are trying to get those on the dole to do voluntary work in order to receive benefits...however, I feel that this will have a knock on effect with people in paid jobs. Will employers get these volunteers in for cheap labour....this will then impact on the issue at hand with how on earth people coming off the disability allowance would ever find a job. Needle and haystack come to mind!

That would not be voluntary work and will affect true volunteers and their contribution. Poundland and others already take the 'free' work-placements instead of employing people. Many are on a conveyor belt of such 'opportunities' but will rarely end up with a paid job out of it. I have NO problem with with some sort of quid pro quo on those receiving job related benefits but withdrawing benefits for those with disabilities is just wrong.

Homelessness figures increased by 25% in the last year and those with complex problems, least able to fight and help themselves are well represented in those figures.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

Just a question and i dont know if im right or wrong. Are disabled people not classed as vulnerable and therefore on their local social services register? If so why are their social services representative whether care worker, social worker,nurse, ect not helping them fill the actual forms in as they know exactly what to say on them

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Just a question and i dont know if im right or wrong. Are disabled people not classed as vulnerable and therefore on their local social services register? If so why are their social services representative whether care worker, social worker,nurse, ect not helping them fill the actual forms in as they know exactly what to say on them"

No, not all disabilities mean that you are classed as vulnerable. Lots of people with disabilities don't have assigned care workers or social workers. Their contact with nurses and doctors is the same as a non disabled person.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

could citizens advice help completion

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

could citizens advice help completion"

Yes, but the cuts have affected legal advice centres quite severely. London centres have had to reduce staffing levels and have seen case loads increase. Queues at the start of the day for advice are not _ncommon.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

could citizens advice help completion

didn't know that... prob not surprising I suppose

cheers

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

Thanks lickity, that answers my question as to why they dont help them then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 31/07/12 18:58:20]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting to see so many "fighting" to keep their disability allowance.

The measure of how much it is needed should be how much that person wants to work and be productive in society. Those determined not to work and using sickness or disability as a reason deserve nothing.

There is always something that a sick, injured or disabled person can do to be productive. Being determined to do nothing is out of order.

This is in no way directed at severely mentally disabled people who struggle with meaningful thoughts and actions - then again - they would not be on this Site would they.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting to see so many "fighting" to keep their disability allowance.

There is always something that a sick, injured or disabled person can do to be productive. Being determined to do nothing is out of order."

Maybe you should include those that get pregnant for the benefits on offer? The difference is most disability is not through choice where as getting pregnant is and gets them out of being productive in a way you refer.

More money is given for children than for disabled.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

take a look at how decisions are made on medical conditions:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/#c

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Interesting to see so many "fighting" to keep their disability allowance.

There is always something that a sick, injured or disabled person can do to be productive. Being determined to do nothing is out of order."

More money is given for children than for disabled. "

I agree. The Chinese Prime Minister recently described Britain as being fat with complacency and living on a sense of expectation rather than obligation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this thread has gone a long way in restoring my faith in humanity, seems most people here are not buying the usual daily mail crap about benefit cheats

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How about the people who did work and contribute to the system before they got ill. And would love to work again if only someone would give them a break.

I see many labelling people on benefits as scroungers, wanting something for nothing, and the government has done an excellent job of spinning this to turn people against each other.

What I see less of is the distinction between people who worked and paid for this system, to help them if they needed it and those who have never paid in a penny, and have no intention of ever doing so, if they can avoid it.

The former group are mostly being badly let down by this system, at the same time as being told they should be grateful for the "hand outs" they get. They're tarred with exactly the same brush as the terminally lazy, people who think having children is a career and people from outside the country who want to be supported without having to work, (I don't, of course, count the ones who do work).

The government call taking benefits away, "helping people back to work". How is adding the pressure of work or starve, with little to no actual assistance, "helping". It just makes it more difficult.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I agree. The Chinese Prime Minister recently described Britain as being fat with complacency and living on a sense of expectation rather than obligation."

Sounds like he was describing the government . Fat and most of them there to nicely feather their own nests with no sense of obligation to do their jobs and represent the majority of the people.

With them setting that example why should they be surprised if some people want to take what they can without earning it? They do, and they take much much more than any benefit claimant.

I don't know of a benefit that's awarded to pay for duck houses, or to clean one's moat. Or to buy and decorate a house so the claimant can sell it at a profit.

Britain, run by the rich, for the rich, and sod the majority of the population.

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By *obletonMan over a year ago

A Home Among The Woodland Creatures

I don't like bankers but I am anwering about benefit cheats..."

quite right - the money we spunked on keeping the bankers in Range Rovers far outweighs the 0.5% of the benefit budget that goes to people who don't want to work.

£1.5 trillion spent to date on propping up banks after a financial crisis that they themselves created.

whereas only around £0.6 billion goes to the workshy

in the light of those figures, donchathink you might want to revisit your priorities?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Since the benefit "system" seems incapable of assessing accurately who needs benefit and who doesn't, how can we trust them to decide who the cheats are?

Benefits are denied to, and taken from many of those who do actually need them, as proven by the rate of successful appeals. So what actual definition is used to define a "cheat"?

If benefit is taken away from someone who should qualify, but they can't face appealing, would they be considered a cheat?

Who decides who the cheats are anyway, and using what criteria?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't like bankers but I am anwering about benefit cheats...

quite right - the money we spunked on keeping the bankers in Range Rovers far outweighs the 0.5% of the benefit budget that goes to people who don't want to work.

£1.5 trillion spent to date on propping up banks after a financial crisis that they themselves created.

whereas only around £0.6 billion goes to the workshy

in the light of those figures, donchathink you might want to revisit your priorities?

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Probably

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do politicians, or do they get enough benefits?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Probably"

Probably? What answer is that? If you dont know its a waste of 8 letters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do politicians, or do they get enough benefits?"

Naa politicians are on the Paul Daniels school of tax form completion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!"

But they are not benefits as in paid out to people who are on low income are they!

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By *weet DevilMan over a year ago

dukinfield

words fail me so many scroungers pleading i cant walk without aid of sticks yet manage to run london marathon and ref football matches its a hard job sorting out the genuine ones from the fraudlent ones but the tax payer is paying these scum who think its cool to cheaat the system pretending to be disabled how fucking low can you get lock em up

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!

But they are not benefits as in paid out to people who are on low income are they!

No, they largely kept their jobs, salaries and bonus payments. That's a lot more than is paid to those on benefits. It was not paid as a state benefit but the source was the same... the public purse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!

But they are not benefits as in paid out to people who are on low income are they!

No, they largely kept their jobs, salaries and bonus payments. That's a lot more than is paid to those on benefits. It was not paid as a state benefit but the source was the same... the public purse."

Are you sure on that? Care to make a wager?

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!

But they are not benefits as in paid out to people who are on low income are they!

No, they largely kept their jobs, salaries and bonus payments. That's a lot more than is paid to those on benefits. It was not paid as a state benefit but the source was the same... the public purse.

Are you sure on that? Care to make a wager?

I don't bet but please do tell me where I am incorrect. When the bailout debt is repaid then I might find it easier to listen. I generally think it is right to keep people in work, productive and paying their taxes (bankers included) but claiming large bonus payments for the success of getting tax money to be used to keep those jobs...?

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Probably

Probably? What answer is that? If you dont know its a waste of 8 letters.

Well I don't know them all personally, but as there are universal benefits available I would say they probably do, why so hostile to my original comment

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By *obletonMan over a year ago

A Home Among The Woodland Creatures

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

well that depends on whether you consider the £1.5 trillion tax payers have spent to keep bankers in work could be _iewed in the same light as the £117 billion we spend on social security.

personally I don't see any distinction other than the fact that one is a few orders of magnitude (that means adding more zeroes on the end) larger than the other

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Growing up with a disabled father ive seen it all. He is 65 and crippled with rheumatoid but when went to be assessed before his change over to pension he was told he would be fit to work - he was signed off by the doctor 15 years previous. so how has he suddenly become fit to work? - and who would employ him?!!!

I say stop going after the proper sick people and start going after fake single mums! i must know 10 people claiming to be living alone and are actually engaged etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 31/07/12 22:54:28]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Probably

Probably? What answer is that? If you dont know its a waste of 8 letters.

Well I don't know them all personally, but as there are universal benefits available I would say they probably do, why so hostile to my original comment"

Probably

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

Public funds are public funds, whether paid in benefits, bailout for banks, buying antique desks for MP offices, providing MP with perks/pensions/lifestyles way beyond those most others can obtain.

So the point is that if the government need to cut expenditure, there are other, perhaps fairer, ways than by taking it from already poor and disadvantaged people, even if it catches a few cheats.

The pension changes, for example. How many MP have suggested their own fat pensions be cut?!

But they are not benefits as in paid out to people who are on low income are they!

No, they largely kept their jobs, salaries and bonus payments. That's a lot more than is paid to those on benefits. It was not paid as a state benefit but the source was the same... the public purse.

Are you sure on that? Care to make a wager?

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do the bankers claim benefits then?

well that depends on whether you consider the £1.5 trillion tax payers have spent to keep bankers in work could be _iewed in the same light as the £117 billion we spend on social security."
No I don't but neither do I with all the cash given to the armed forces to but expensive bombs to kill women and kids.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?"

Ok well first the money was spent on some new office furniture, a new desk for the MD, a carpet for the board dining room, a new coffee maker for the canteen.......

No the money was used or supposed to be used for corporate loans and the money was lent on that basis to the ones who applied for it. The banks who had government buyouts were totally different matters.

The sad fact though is money was lent to people who didn't pay it back and now they don't want to lend to anyone if they can help it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?"

Ps it wasn't used for benefits though

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?

Ps it wasn't used for benefits though

I think a £m bonus is a benefit... at the very least it's beneficial to the recipient.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ps it wasn't used for benefits though

Nobody's saying it was. Just that it could have been, had it not been used (wasted, in a lot of cases, in the _iew of many), for other things.

Since the thread is about deserving people, in need, having benefits cut or taken away by a corrupt system, to "cut public expenditure", discussions on other, more appropriate methods of cutting public spending aren't off topic. IMO at least.

As for "

", if you're going to stick it out, at least do something useful with it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I didnt pay much attention to the ins and outs of the new assessments but it seems to me they are designed to make sure no one is eligible for disability allowance.

They are. It was in the paper at the weekend that ATOS is telling docs not to pass people. The more ATOS saves, the more profit they make from their contract with the Government.

for every assessment they carry out they get paid £500 for every person they remove from disability benefit they get a bonus of £1000 - work out why people with MS in wheelchairs who have carers dealing with their everyday needs are now deemed to be able to work ........... this is something I was banging on about in a different thread a few weeks ago ........

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?

Ps it wasn't used for benefits though

I think a £m bonus is a benefit... at the very least it's beneficial to the recipient."

I'd consider a free million pounds a benefit! Especially if I got it for doing a crap job and destroying an economy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I speak from personal experience of this with someone close.

You cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is for someone who has worked hard all their life to stand in front of someone and show how useless and incapable they now are. No, they can't do it, they put on their best and get declared fit for work.

Now a fraud will have no comp_nction in showing how difficult it is to lift one little finger.

Nuf said.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"I speak from personal experience of this with someone close.

Now a fraud will have no comp_nction in showing how difficult it is to lift one little finger.

Nuf said.

I've seen this sort of thing firsthand myself, when someone I knew was contacted by telephone and asked health questions, and because they said they could walk were denied what they were asking for. But that person had no feeling in their feet so were prone to falling - no checks were done with their GP

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The bailout was to the corporate companies not individuals but please correct me if im wrong.

You are absolutely correct but pray tell me how that money was used? So, it is ok to use trillions of pounds of public money to support a corporate company but not a corporeal person?

Ps it wasn't used for benefits though

I think a £m bonus is a benefit... at the very least it's beneficial to the recipient."

Ah we are getting to specifics to prove a point! Well then £m is actually one million pounds sterling or if paid in dollars one million USD or for the Euro one million Euros an could be more accurately described as cash

Its CASH

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bankers bonuses and MP's expenses are irrelevant.

bankers bonuses were paid on performance which with the great benefit of hindsight proved to be wrong. Wouldn't we all like a bit of hindsight every now and then. Further, you can't label all "bankers" in the same way - the vast majority are simply corporate employees earning a living living like everone, no maybe - most - no actually like some - on this Site.

MP's expenses. They claimed what they thought they could claim for and what (at the time) was culturally acceptable.

Conning the system and being a fraud has always been, and will always be, wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Most aren't conning the system though. In fact, the system is conning them. And ATOS (not even a UK company) are being paid huge amounts and given massive incentives to cheat people by any means possible. Many of those people worked and paid tax for many, many years but now they need the help they are bring painted as lazy scroungers and frauds, and denied it.

And many MPs did knowingly claim for things they shouldn't have, and submitted false information regarding rent arrangements and similar. But as usually a few scapegoats were held to account and the rest got off scot free.

If public money needs to be saved, those at the top should lead by example, not set out to intentionally defraud people of the benefits they depend on to live.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have applied for Disability Allowance I have four documents from the DWP all over the space of a year and there is no consistancy with reasons to disallow a claim. I had Assessments for ESA and got shifted from one group to another so no benefit after 365 days, alas DWP have no record of me being in the Support group but I have, the one that moved me prior to the law change. The ESA assessment was used to disallow my claim for DLA which is wrong. No scruples where profit is made.

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"Bankers bonuses and MP's expenses are irrelevant.

MP's expenses. They claimed what they thought they could claim for and what (at the time) was culturally acceptable.

Conning the system and being a fraud has always been, and will always be, wrong."

Are you for real bankers bonuses were and still are paid regardless of performance, if it was performance based then a lot of bankers would be in debt trying to match the minuses they created.

They now have the hindsight (they fucked up royaly) and still the big bonuses.

ATOS are being paid 100 milliion a year with only one remit try and get everone off disability it is totaly wrong and like most schemes the government come out with immoral.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, I am for real. Self employed and working harder than at any time in my life since I lost my job at 48 years old.

There are no scapegoats in my life, anything and everything that goes right (and wrong) is on my head. Many don't like bonuses that other people get simply because they can't have them themselves. It is just too easy to look back at what went wrong in banking when, to almost everyone, it was right at the time. You can't pigeonhole bankers - is my neighbour who works for Lloyds a banker? She gets a bonus. Who are you describing as bankers who created the minuses? It was a culture that we all bought into - cheap credit, non status mortgages and when it goes wrong we look around for someone to pin the blame on. If you borrowed money in any description because it was cheap money - you are just as guilty.

Tell you what - here is a novel idea - let's rob the rich to make them poorer and give it to the poor to make them richer. Yes, that should work...... Not.

As far a tax avoidance goes - it is perfectly legal so no point in moaning. I avoided a huge tax bill when I went self employed via a Limited Company - lot's of VAT back and dividends instead of a salary. All perfectly legal and correct.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ATOS are being paid 100 milliion a year with only one remit try and get everone off disability it is totaly wrong and like most schemes the government come out with immoral."

They are only doing what insurance companies have been doing for years. Many big companies have employee liability insurance so that if an employee gets sick or injured and is off work the insurance company picks up the tab. Insurance companies don't like to pay up so they employ people to get the sick and injured back in gainful employment. So what? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

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By *r Tony.Man over a year ago

Warrington B'ham London Lowestoft

I have a war pension had to have a medical for that with ATOS, two wks later had another medical for ESA by the same so called doctor at ATOS who was very hard to understand as he is Estonian now we got east euros messing with ppls lives earning a fortune by dismissing those of us who are on benefits. not by choice just by ill health i'm in despair have served my country and worked all my life to be labelled a scrounger.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bankers bonuses and MP's expenses are irrelevant.

MP's expenses. They claimed what they thought they could claim for and what (at the time) was culturally acceptable.

Conning the system and being a fraud has always been, and will always be, wrong.

Are you for real bankers bonuses were and still are paid regardless of performance

"
That is factually incorrect they are paid based on their contracts and almost all bonuses are tied to the profits each individual brings in.

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"Yes, I am for real. Self employed and working harder than at any time in my life since I lost my job at 48 years old.

Tell you what - here is a novel idea - let's rob the rich to make them poorer and give it to the poor to make them richer. Yes, that should work...... Not.

Yes but it was never right as the banks were warned what was 100% going to happen not that they had to be they knew what was bound to happen but the rewards were too great and they were too greedy and in the end it is only they hwho dont have to pay.

We are not talking about the ordinary person who works in the bank and has no control over the reckless greed of the bosses.

It was known a long time ago that it would all lead to collapse.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"Bankers bonuses and MP's expenses are irrelevant.

MP's expenses. They claimed what they thought they could claim for and what (at the time) was culturally acceptable.

Conning the system and being a fraud has always been, and will always be, wrong.

Are you for real bankers bonuses were and still are paid regardless of performance

That is factually incorrect they are paid based on their contracts and almost all bonuses are tied to the profits each individual brings in. "

So how do you reckon on the head of a bank that lost billions still recieving bonuses I am puzzled here how much profit is there in losing a few billion?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bankers bonuses and MP's expenses are irrelevant.

MP's expenses. They claimed what they thought they could claim for and what (at the time) was culturally acceptable.

Conning the system and being a fraud has always been, and will always be, wrong.

Are you for real bankers bonuses were and still are paid regardless of performance

That is factually incorrect they are paid based on their contracts and almost all bonuses are tied to the profits each individual brings in.

So how do you reckon on the head of a bank that lost billions still recieving bonuses I am puzzled here how much profit is there in losing a few billion?"

I Explained previously I shouldn't need to reiterate.

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

True

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?"

So not me I left school at 15 and have worked ever since.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

So not me I left school at 15 and have worked ever since."
That explains it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the flip side of this - I was on Incapacity Benefit for 18 years, was assessed and told "get off your arse and go to work" (well maybe not quite like that lol - am now looking for work, doing training, have nearly completed my first course in the space of 3 days (a course I was allowed 6 weeks to complete!!!) and have my CV in a various companies, one of which is the company I am doing the course through by their request, I will keep u all posted wot happens ................

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

Thread evolution... DLA to scroungers to deserving to public spending to bank bailout to banker bonuses, with some interspersed personal experiences.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?"

Blame is a big part of the national psyche and many need something to pin their blame on because they cannot accept personal responsibility for the life that they have. Let's be real, with very few unfortunate exceptions - we all live the life that we deserve to be leading because of the actions we took from the age of 16 onwards.

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On the flip side of this - I was on Incapacity Benefit for 18 years, was assessed and told "get off your arse and go to work" (well maybe not quite like that lol - am now looking for work, doing training, have nearly completed my first course in the space of 3 days (a course I was allowed 6 weeks to complete!!!) and have my CV in a various companies, one of which is the company I am doing the course through by their request, I will keep u all posted wot happens ................

Do you not feel better about yourself now? Taking positive steps, being positive - all that should give you confidence, raise your self esteem and generally make you feel good. Well done!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you not feel better about yourself now? Taking positive steps, being positive - all that should give you confidence, raise your self esteem and generally make you feel good. Well done!"

I havae been working anyway in a job that the government dont consider to be work but want many people to do - so yeah have quite a high self esteem anyway but feel very proud of myself that I have achieved so much in a few days - and am looking forward to getting a job and working in an environment where it is not singular like now ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you not feel better about yourself now? Taking positive steps, being positive - all that should give you confidence, raise your self esteem and generally make you feel good. Well done!

* have

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death."

Really - and where did you pluck that gem of information from

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

Really - and where did you pluck that gem of information from "

Well whose fault is it if it is not your own? Mrs Thatcher?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

Really - and where did you pluck that gem of information from

Well whose fault is it if it is not your own? Mrs Thatcher?"

so if someone looses and arm or a leg in machinary thats their fault as well is it, or if they have a heartattck. Good forbid you never have any illness. Ive only read a couple of your threads on different subjects and you dont come across as the nicest character on the forums

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

Really - and where did you pluck that gem of information from

Well whose fault is it if it is not your own? Mrs Thatcher?"

What sort of answer is that, I asked where you found a fact like that - that these illnesses only stop you working in the UK - or did you just make it up and that's why you chose not to answer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Let's be real, with very few unfortunate exceptions - we all live the life that we deserve to be leading because of the actions we took from the age of 16 onwards...."

Did you miss that bit?

"so if someone looses and arm or a leg in machinary thats their fault as well is it, or if they have a heartattck. Good forbid you never have any illness. Ive only read a couple of your threads on different subjects and you dont come across as the nicest character on the forums"

You missed the caveat about exceptions. What exactly do you expect from a forum debate? Everyone has a soppy love in agreeing with everything that everyone else says?

Does being "nice" mean that I have to agree with everyone because I want a shag? lol

Don't think so. I'm not two faced - I say it how I see it cos in my business I have no time to fanny around beating around the bush. Being straight is not an attribute generally favoured by the British.

have a nice day

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death."

The Welfare State was created to avoid the starving to death option... which is what happens in other parts of the world.

I have never claimed anything but that has largely been because the work I have done does not require me to stand all day or carry things all day. I do get on with it but I have had times when I could not walk at all. In the old days that meant missing work but now it means I work from home. Not everyone has that choice.

Illness and disability can happen to any of us. I sincerely hope you, your family and friends all remain hale and hearty throughout your lives. Have some compassion for those not as fortunate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What sort of answer is that, I asked where you found a fact like that - that these illnesses only stop you working in the UK - or did you just make it up and that's why you chose not to answer"

Ah, so the second part of the thread.

Well experience............

1) I have employed people in England, Spain and USA

2) Previously I worked in HR for a multi-national and so have a reasonable understanding of labour laws (as they were) in the 1990's in Australia, New Zealand, USA and Japan.

3) I know for a fact that the three countries with the largest working populations (China, India & Russia) do not have any such ridiculously benevolant understandings.

So that leaves much of the Third World countries and parts of Europe that I have no personal knowledge of. However - one of my ex employees is married to a Fraulein and she despairs at the "workshy" illnesses used in Britain to avoid working. She claims this nonsense does not exist in Germany.

Well, I guess you caught me out generalising - I have not covered every single country in the world but personal experience, general knowledge and third party interactions have given me sufficient confidence to make the claim.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Welfare State was created to avoid the starving to death option... which is what happens in other parts of the world.

Illness and disability can happen to any of us. I sincerely hope you, your family and friends all remain hale and hearty throughout your lives. Have some compassion for those not as fortunate."

You also missed the bit about unfortunate exceptions and no one is going to decry the need for a welfare state that looks after those unfortunate exceptions.

This is not about the exceptions though is it?

It is about the Welfare State being a lifestyle option, not a lifeline for the truly needy.

That is what the Government is quite rightly trying to change.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

What sort of answer is that, I asked where you found a fact like that - that these illnesses only stop you working in the UK - or did you just make it up and that's why you chose not to answer

Ah, so the second part of the thread.

Well experience............

1) I have employed people in England, Spain and USA

2) Previously I worked in HR for a multi-national and so have a reasonable understanding of labour laws (as they were) in the 1990's in Australia, New Zealand, USA and Japan.

3) I know for a fact that the three countries with the largest working populations (China, India & Russia) do not have any such ridiculously benevolant understandings.

So you did make it up

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By *hropshire69Couple over a year ago

shropshire

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

The Welfare State was created to avoid the starving to death option... which is what happens in other parts of the world.

Illness and disability can happen to any of us. I sincerely hope you, your family and friends all remain hale and hearty throughout your lives. Have some compassion for those not as fortunate."

Just because you have an Illness and/or disability does not mean you cannot do some kind of work. Many people with a disability work in my industry, you just need to know their limitations.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What sort of answer is that, I asked where you found a fact like that - that these illnesses only stop you working in the UK - or did you just make it up and that's why you chose not to answer

Ah, so the second part of the thread.

Well experience............

1) I have employed people in England, Spain and USA

2) Previously I worked in HR for a multi-national and so have a reasonable understanding of labour laws (as they were) in the 1990's in Australia, New Zealand, USA and Japan.

3) I know for a fact that the three countries with the largest working populations (China, India & Russia) do not have any such ridiculously benevolant understandings.

So you did make it up"

I know that it is not recognised in USA, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, Russia, India, Spain and apparently Germany. I'd lay a good wager that Third World countries would not recognise it so that leaves a handful of First World countries that I have no knowledge of. What do you reckon? Most of the working world doesn't? How many other countries like Britain would allow someone to be off work because their Manager is mean to them and has made them so stressed that they can't face walking out of their own front door (personal experience example) - but they can spend 24 hours a day on internet forums - no problem at all lol (we found all her internet postings, copied and the manager presented them to a subsequent tribunal).

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

You also missed the bit about unfortunate exceptions and no one is going to decry the need for a welfare state that looks after those unfortunate exceptions.

This is not about the exceptions though is it?

It is about the Welfare State being a lifestyle option, not a lifeline for the truly needy.

That is what the Government is quite rightly trying to change."

I have no problem with dealing with the scammers and getting them back to being active and contributing. They will benefit mentally and physically if not always financiall. More significantly, their families and children will see the cycle of being out of work broken. I have spent a lot of my career on this and other related issues - here and at a European level.

But these are the exceptions, a small proportion of the claimants. The approach that is being taken with payment by results is to ensure that the genuinely ill are being found to be able to work and left high and dry when there is no work for them to get.

When the simple majority of claims are found to be valid on appeal that says something about the system. The comments have largely been about the unfairness of that and that the contract is paid from public funds therefore we pay twice (once to the contractor and their sub-contractors and then for the appeal process). How can that be a good use of money?

By all means help people back into work but don't penalise those unable to work for reasons outside of their control for the sake of ideology.

Finally, on the USA points you made in an earlier post. My cousin was one of those that escaped the towers on 9/11. He was traumatised. He has not been able to work since. Insurance ran out after the first year and if but for family he would now be starving. It doesn't matter how much he is encouraged to get back to work he is simply not capable. That is an extreme example of trauma but none of us know how we will react.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

I'm glad you mentioned this because if you have a severe mental illness you will be unable to go to work perse, regardless of whether there is a welfare state to fall back on

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

I'm glad you mentioned this because if you have a severe mental illness you will be unable to go to work perse, regardless of whether there is a welfare state to fall back on"

Or we could reopen all the old lunatic asylums and stick those that cant work because of mental illness back in them but then they would still cost the state. Lets have them all put down

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

Let's also understand that:

workplace anxiety disorder

depression

bi polar disorder

chronic fatigue syndrome

chronic stress disorder

and more....

Only exist as work preventing condition in this country. Almost everywhere else in the world you get on, and get over it or you starve to death.

The Welfare State was created to avoid the starving to death option... which is what happens in other parts of the world.

Illness and disability can happen to any of us. I sincerely hope you, your family and friends all remain hale and hearty throughout your lives. Have some compassion for those not as fortunate.

Just because you have an Illness and/or disability does not mean you cannot do some kind of work. Many people with a disability work in my industry, you just need to know their limitations."

I know at least a 12 people who are actively seeking work and cant find sod all. All are late 40,s, early 50,s . They are fit and have a good work based ethic.If they cant find work, what chance do i have ?

If i turned up for an inter_iew and half a dozen ablebodied did....i can tell you i wont stand a chance, regardless of my credentials.

Ive tried, believe me , ive tried

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By *acread OP Couple over a year ago

central scotland

"For the life of me I can't see the connection between Bankers bonuses and DLA claims....

A desperate cry from people associated with benefit abuse looking to defer perhaps?

So not me I left school at 15 and have worked ever since. That explains it. "

Explains what exactly?

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