FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Shamima Begum
Shamima Begum
Jump to: Newest in thread
I think it's complicated.
From one point of view yes she knowingly joined a terrorist group and should suffer the consequences of that.
However
She was a young impressionable kid and at that age it's known that the teenage brain is really not able to be logical I am not making light of this anyone who has a teenager will agree.
I think the biggest point is not just that she made a huge massive error in judgement but it's if she genuinely regrets and understands that what she did was wrong and doesn't still share the same ideology?
If she does she could be extremely dangerous and used as a tool to recruit other young impressionable girl's or as a valuable tool for the prevention of this.
For the majority will think she shouldn't be allowed back,I find it difficult not to agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
No sympathy for such idiots who supported terrorists around the world who drove vans ,trucks over innocent people who were walking on the pavement or shopping in markets . In Nice , a trucker killed 87 shoppers including women and kids.
We had knife attacks in london .
We have to overlook our shoulders wherever we go these days .
She can rot in hell there where she is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it's complicated.
From one point of view yes she knowingly joined a terrorist group and should suffer the consequences of that.
However
She was a young impressionable kid and at that age it's known that the teenage brain is really not able to be logical I am not making light of this anyone who has a teenager will agree.
I think the biggest point is not just that she made a huge massive error in judgement but it's if she genuinely regrets and understands that what she did was wrong and doesn't still share the same ideology?
If she does she could be extremely dangerous and used as a tool to recruit other young impressionable girl's or as a valuable tool for the prevention of this.
For the majority will think she shouldn't be allowed back,I find it difficult not to agree."
In her initial interview in her refugee camp she showed no regret and felt it was in her rights to come back to the UK to have her baby!
That was the time she should have apologised and shown remorse. If she does it now it’s because her pr team have told her to! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"She was a young impressionable kid and at that age it's known that the teenage brain is really not able to be logical I am not making light of this anyone who has a teenager will agree."
Nonsense
I and my siblings grew up in Belfast during the "troubles" of the 70s and 80s
Not one of us joined ant terrorist organisation of any description
She knew what she was doing and should pay for her actions |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In her initial interview in her refugee camp she showed no regret and felt it was in her rights to come back to the UK to have her baby!
That was the time she should have apologised and shown remorse. If she does it now it’s because her pr team have told her to! "
Exactly , she thinks it's her RIGHT to claim a return back so she can raise a kid in the UK using the welfare system and tmrw if ISIS sprungs back in another Muslim country ,she can export her son there to fight .
I think whosoever is advising her is well aware of the UK judicial system.
Once she is allowed in here then it will not only open floodgates of such applications but also encourage people to join more terrorists organisations in future . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Hope the powers that be show the same sense as the people of Fab, she clearly knew what she was doing when she left to join ISIS to bring death and destruction to the UK and simulate Western countries this is clearly shown by her first interview where she showed not one hint of regret and remorse for doing so.
Leave he be and keep our country safe |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need. "
I agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well if they do let her back in she will end up in a safe house.
If not that then every tabloid will be falling over themselves to buy her story.
She will end up rich or hiding for the rest of her life |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Well if they do let her back in she will end up in a safe house.
If not that then every tabloid will be falling over themselves to buy her story.
She will end up rich or hiding for the rest of her life "
And ?
She won't be paying herself. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
I agree. "
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
there are dozens of brits who went to ISIS they are sat in syria in camps as are all the other western terrorists... the question is what do you do with them Begum included..
leave them there? then you are building terror for future years?
bring them home.. not popular but at least you know what they are up to. (and dozens have already sneaked back without a squeek from the press).. so are we just picking on this one niave/ immature woman? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ever tried telling a 15 year old child,they are a child? 
At 14/15/16,myself and friends had attempts on ourselves to join paramilitary organisations in Belfast
None of us,not one joined up
This girl knew what she was doing,she also showed no regret afterwards
No,your age argument doesn't hold water in this case |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Supreme court to rule whether she can be allowed back into UK.
I think she lost that right when she joined the terrorist group but I can see her being allowed back in. they should hang her "
What for ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need. "
Hard to imagine a worse take than this. First she wasn’t groomed, that’s a lie spread by her supporters. She was an intelligent young woman who sought out the information about travelling to Syria.
Secondly she willingly took part in the most appalling crimes while the young women in Rotherham and elsewhere, who were groomed, were the victims of appalling crimes.
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
Hard to imagine a worse take than this. First she wasn’t groomed, that’s a lie spread by her supporters. She was an intelligent young woman who sought out the information about travelling to Syria.
Secondly she willingly took part in the most appalling crimes while the young women in Rotherham and elsewhere, who were groomed, were the victims of appalling crimes.
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you."
Is your decision making process as an adult man the same as it was as a teenage boy? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
Hard to imagine a worse take than this. First she wasn’t groomed, that’s a lie spread by her supporters. She was an intelligent young woman who sought out the information about travelling to Syria.
Secondly she willingly took part in the most appalling crimes while the young women in Rotherham and elsewhere, who were groomed, were the victims of appalling crimes.
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you."
I'm all for different takes on matters but it helps to stick to the point and use facts. It also helps not to muddy the waters if you don't bring in totally non associated events. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
By all means allow her to return but face the consequences of her actions in supporting terrorist activity.
The supreme court has to consider not just the individual case but the wider implications of legal precedent. Not cut and dried in determining the judgement. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
Is your decision making process as an adult man the same as it was as a teenage boy?"
Under UK law, and in most countries, a 15 yo is responsible for their actions under Criminal law. Their age and it’s relevance to their decisions is taken into account during sentencing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
I'm all for different takes on matters but it helps to stick to the point and use facts. It also helps not to muddy the waters if you don't bring in totally non associated events. "
The ‘non associated events’ were introduced by a post that you gave the thumbs up to. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
I'm all for different takes on matters but it helps to stick to the point and use facts. It also helps not to muddy the waters if you don't bring in totally non associated events.
The ‘non associated events’ were introduced by a post that you gave the thumbs up to."
No. I quoted you. I was referring to your post. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
I'm all for different takes on matters but it helps to stick to the point and use facts. It also helps not to muddy the waters if you don't bring in totally non associated events.
The ‘non associated events’ were introduced by a post that you gave the thumbs up to.
No. I quoted you. I was referring to your post. "
No, you actually quoted both posts and as you’d thumbed the first one you presumably approved ‘equating’ the two events in that post. My reply was a refutation of that grotesque comparison so your issue should be with the earlier post, and your own endorsement of it ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need. "
 compassion is in short supply these days. I used to work in schools in Bethnal Green, including the school she attended. Many of the girls from Bengali backgrounds were incredibly sheltered and were very immature when it came to relationships, emotions or experiences that other London teenagers would have had. They were a target for grooming from all over because of naivety. It was well known that ISIS used these girls and groomed them relatively easily - these were not girls who were not able to have the usual rites of passage, and therefore not as street smart as other girls their age, and believe me teenage girls are rife with hormones. Isis used handsome young men to entice these girls. I don't think we can take what she says in a refugee camp, which is rife with those loyal to ISIS ideology, to be true. I have read a number of articles from journalists who have been to these camps and they have all said that no one can speak out against ISIS, those that do end up killed.
I find what she did to be vile, and it IS hard to have sympathy. But whether we like it or not, international law does not allow people to be left stateless. The thing that makes our society better is that we follow the law, however much it sticks in our throat. Of course I feel the emotional response that she betrayed the country she grew up in. But I'm proud we are not like those states that disregard the law. She can be used as a symbol to back up the hatred of the west and therefore, in some way, justifies the hatred towards us and makes things more dangerous.
Anyway, just my opinion. I completely understand the strength of feeling on the other side of the argument. It's incredibly challenging.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"By all means allow her to return but face the consequences of her actions in supporting terrorist activity.
The supreme court has to consider not just the individual case but the wider implications of legal precedent. Not cut and dried in determining the judgement. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
compassion is in short supply these days. I used to work in schools in Bethnal Green, including the school she attended. Many of the girls from Bengali backgrounds were incredibly sheltered and were very immature when it came to relationships, emotions or experiences that other London teenagers would have had. They were a target for grooming from all over because of naivety. It was well known that ISIS used these girls and groomed them relatively easily - these were not girls who were not able to have the usual rites of passage, and therefore not as street smart as other girls their age, and believe me teenage girls are rife with hormones. Isis used handsome young men to entice these girls. I don't think we can take what she says in a refugee camp, which is rife with those loyal to ISIS ideology, to be true. I have read a number of articles from journalists who have been to these camps and they have all said that no one can speak out against ISIS, those that do end up killed.
I find what she did to be vile, and it IS hard to have sympathy. But whether we like it or not, international law does not allow people to be left stateless. The thing that makes our society better is that we follow the law, however much it sticks in our throat. Of course I feel the emotional response that she betrayed the country she grew up in. But I'm proud we are not like those states that disregard the law. She can be used as a symbol to back up the hatred of the west and therefore, in some way, justifies the hatred towards us and makes things more dangerous.
Anyway, just my opinion. I completely understand the strength of feeling on the other side of the argument. It's incredibly challenging.
"
Very intelligent and balanced post. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
I'm all for different takes on matters but it helps to stick to the point and use facts. It also helps not to muddy the waters if you don't bring in totally non associated events.
The ‘non associated events’ were introduced by a post that you gave the thumbs up to.
No. I quoted you. I was referring to your post.
No, you actually quoted both posts and as you’d thumbed the first one you presumably approved ‘equating’ the two events in that post. My reply was a refutation of that grotesque comparison so your issue should be with the earlier post, and your own endorsement of it ! "
No. I quoted you. I was referring to your post. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Judgment:
She is not coming back.
Key bit:
"the Court of Appeal mistakenly believed that, when an individual’s right to have a fair hearing of an appeal came into conflict with the requirements of national security, her right to a fair hearing must prevail [110, 135]. But the right to a fair hearing does not trump all other considerations, such as the safety of the public. If a vital public interest makes it impossible for a case to be fairly heard, then the courts cannot ordinarily hear it [91-94, 135]. The appropriate response to the problem in the present case is for the deprivation appeal to be stayed until Ms Begum is in a position to play an effective part in it without the safety of the public being compromised [135]. That is not a perfect solution, as it is not known how long it may be before that is possible. But there is no perfect solution to a dilemma of the present kind."
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Judgment:
She is not coming back.
Key bit:
"the Court of Appeal mistakenly believed that, when an individual’s right to have a fair hearing of an appeal came into conflict with the requirements of national security, her right to a fair hearing must prevail [110, 135]. But the right to a fair hearing does not trump all other considerations, such as the safety of the public. If a vital public interest makes it impossible for a case to be fairly heard, then the courts cannot ordinarily hear it [91-94, 135]. The appropriate response to the problem in the present case is for the deprivation appeal to be stayed until Ms Begum is in a position to play an effective part in it without the safety of the public being compromised [135]. That is not a perfect solution, as it is not known how long it may be before that is possible. But there is no perfect solution to a dilemma of the present kind."
"
it was because she didn’t have a COVID stamp on her passport........ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
In her initial interview in her refugee camp she showed no regret and felt it was in her rights to come back to the UK to have her baby!
That was the time she should have apologised and shown remorse. If she does it now it’s because her pr team have told her to!
Exactly , she thinks it's her RIGHT to claim a return back so she can raise a kid in the UK using the welfare system and tmrw if ISIS sprungs back in another Muslim country ,she can export her son there to fight .
I think whosoever is advising her is well aware of the UK judicial system.
Once she is allowed in here then it will not only open floodgates of such applications but also encourage people to join more terrorists organisations in future ."
Totally this!
She has no remorse no regret and talks about heads getting chopped off and put into bins as acceptable. She is dangerous and will sadly poison her child's mind.
We the UK public have every right to be protected from her.
KJ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
If you can’t tell the difference between victims and victimisers I really don’t know what else to tell you.
Is your decision making process as an adult man the same as it was as a teenage boy?
Under UK law, and in most countries, a 15 yo is responsible for their actions under Criminal law. Their age and it’s relevance to their decisions is taken into account during sentencing. "
That's not what I asked you though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Supreme court to rule whether she can be allowed back into UK.
I think she lost that right when she joined the terrorist group but I can see her being allowed back in."
I saw that too. Its a really good question. My gut reaction (in ignorance of all of the facts other than what the biased press have told us) was... "Fuck no... She's evil." and I justified it with a hundred reasons. Then thought about my own kids... And how vulnerable they can be and how powerful and insidious and pervasive the Internet can be.... There but for the grace of God. So now, a year after my first thoughts, my opinion has changed. And on reflection I think some more good can come of this.. Have her go round to schools and mosques and explain her mistakes, what to look for, what to avoid, talk to families and deprogram some of the youngsters.
The ones that should be kicked out if possible / jailed if not are the ones doing the programming and recruiting and the media companies that provide the platform to allow it to be served up or the social groups that provide a haven.
We also need much much better clarity about for example integration. Some things that are being allowed and sometimes encouraged will always lead to conflict. Tolerance of this will only lead to problems later down the road. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well if they do let her back in she will end up in a safe house.
If not that then every tabloid will be falling over themselves to buy her story.
She will end up rich or hiding for the rest of her life
And ?
She won't be paying herself."
you are correct the taxpayer will be I was going to edit my post then remembered you can't so couldn't be bothered to write it again |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
compassion is in short supply these days. I used to work in schools in Bethnal Green, including the school she attended. Many of the girls from Bengali backgrounds were incredibly sheltered and were very immature when it came to relationships, emotions or experiences that other London teenagers would have had. They were a target for grooming from all over because of naivety. It was well known that ISIS used these girls and groomed them relatively easily - these were not girls who were not able to have the usual rites of passage, and therefore not as street smart as other girls their age, and believe me teenage girls are rife with hormones. Isis used handsome young men to entice these girls. I don't think we can take what she says in a refugee camp, which is rife with those loyal to ISIS ideology, to be true. I have read a number of articles from journalists who have been to these camps and they have all said that no one can speak out against ISIS, those that do end up killed.
I find what she did to be vile, and it IS hard to have sympathy. But whether we like it or not, international law does not allow people to be left stateless. The thing that makes our society better is that we follow the law, however much it sticks in our throat. Of course I feel the emotional response that she betrayed the country she grew up in. But I'm proud we are not like those states that disregard the law. She can be used as a symbol to back up the hatred of the west and therefore, in some way, justifies the hatred towards us and makes things more dangerous.
Anyway, just my opinion. I completely understand the strength of feeling on the other side of the argument. It's incredibly challenging.
Very intelligent and balanced post. "
Indeed
I dont have the answers
I'm not sure I even have an opinion.
Its just a bloody sad story. Sad on so many levels |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *omino51Man
over a year ago
loughborough |
"I think the SAS should of "took her out" but hay im a big softy i know ??
What do you mean by 'take her out' ....... KILL her ? "
Ok you've caught me out. At least i can't be accused of being a liberal. So im not all bad. ?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the SAS should of "took her out" but hay im a big softy i know ??
What do you mean by 'take her out' ....... KILL her ?
Ok you've caught me out. At least i can't be accused of being a liberal. So im not all bad. ??"
Why should we kill her ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the SAS should of "took her out" but hay im a big softy i know ??
What do you mean by 'take her out' ....... KILL her ?
Ok you've caught me out. At least i can't be accused of being a liberal. So im not all bad. ??"
That's a matter of opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *omino51Man
over a year ago
loughborough |
"I think the SAS should of "took her out" but hay im a big softy i know ??
What do you mean by 'take her out' ....... KILL her ?
Ok you've caught me out. At least i can't be accused of being a liberal. So im not all bad. ??
That's a matter of opinion. "
Pmpl you think i give a rats ass of your opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the SAS should of "took her out" but hay im a big softy i know ??
What do you mean by 'take her out' ....... KILL her ?
Ok you've caught me out. At least i can't be accused of being a liberal. So im not all bad. ??
That's a matter of opinion.
Pmpl you think i give a rats ass of your opinion. "
Ditto |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father "
No one should hate you for an informed contribution to a discussion.
Thanks for that x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father "
No one would hate you for saying that.
Anyone with half a brain can see there are no easy answers.
Personally I think she should stand trial.
They have let others back in. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father "
I make you right. Lack of integration is a massive problem and has been allowed / encouraged with people making easy political decisions rather than the right decisions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father
I make you right. Lack of integration is a massive problem and has been allowed / encouraged with people making easy political decisions rather than the right decisions. "
Also the older generations dont help they want to come here for a better life but hate the western world I see this within my own family and I guess I went against it and rebelled sadly growing up in the 90s I had friends in school from every ethnicity it was never a problem now have my own school age kids it is very different everyone sticks to there own as much as possible it's like we have gone backwards |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
She will now say she’s sorry for joining on camera etc we all know it’s just a pr stunt , what she really says and thinks off camera is another story altogether, let her rot in hell !! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I'm not comfortable with the Government having the right to strip British Born Citizens of their Citizenship.
I'm not defending her choices in any way, shape or form. Just like I don't defend British drug mules in foreign prisons. But no one's trying to take their Citizenship away either... This is not a legal issue, but a purely political one and its about optics only!
Ask yourself what rights would you be willing to let the Guv take from you or your kids, on the basis of being found guilty of a crime...? How about no right to vote if you have points on your licence? Or no more NHS access if you drive over the limit?
If someone actively chooses to relinquish citizenship, great! But I don't think that her majesty should just be able to take it away.
Rant over.....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sorry I know so many of you are going to hate me for this but growing up in London with not that much age difference to her i think she should be allowed back
She was born here went to school here she was only 15 when she went completely naive
There are many around London with similar extremist views most of the people doing these things were born and grew up here there is something going wrong and it's only going to get worse there is not much integration now as there was is the 90s I believe she thought going there would be a easy way out and she would have a husband kids and be a house wife I know people I grew up with who returned to Algeria and other places for this even after being born here saying this as someone that has attended mosques from a young age and has a Muslim father
I make you right. Lack of integration is a massive problem and has been allowed / encouraged with people making easy political decisions rather than the right decisions.
Also the older generations dont help they want to come here for a better life but hate the western world I see this within my own family and I guess I went against it and rebelled sadly growing up in the 90s I had friends in school from every ethnicity it was never a problem now have my own school age kids it is very different everyone sticks to there own as much as possible it's like we have gone backwards "
Exactly and as much as we can all understand people wanting to hang around with similar people... There should be a bare minimum of integration, now we have pseudo ghettos and are paying the price. And no amount of lip service makes it right and not the cause of many problems we are seeing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"She will now say she’s sorry for joining on camera etc we all know it’s just a pr stunt , what she really says and thinks off camera is another story altogether, let her rot in hell !!"
The issue I have with that is... It doesn't fix the problem. If we keep doing the same things the same we will always see the same outcome. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If she’s deemed a safety threat then surely the answer is NO she should not be allowed back in. More worrying is the question how many undetected Muslim Islamic extremist are already living in our presence? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *DW1983Man
over a year ago
Aberdeen, Leeds, Sheffield |
I can see both sides, and have some sympathy for the view that she was a young impressionable teenager at the time, and that in some ways she could be considered a victim in that regard. To what degree she knew what she was doing and to what degree she was coerced I wouldn't like to be the one to judge.
But I think there's a distinction between, say, an impressionable teenager being coaxed into some regrettable high jinx, and going off to join an organisation she must have known was considered a terrorist group by the rest of the country, whether she believed in it or had been brainwashed.
Unfortunately, as much as people will want to 'help' or ensure we treat her 'fairly', I think we have to draw a line and say with such extreme actions come extreme consequences, and for there not to be would send the wrong message to others with similar intentions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If she’s deemed a safety threat then surely the answer is NO she should not be allowed back in. More worrying is the question how many undetected Muslim Islamic extremist are already living in our presence?"
Loads |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I can see both sides, and have some sympathy for the view that she was a young impressionable teenager at the time, and that in some ways she could be considered a victim in that regard. To what degree she knew what she was doing and to what degree she was coerced I wouldn't like to be the one to judge.
But I think there's a distinction between, say, an impressionable teenager being coaxed into some regrettable high jinx, and going off to join an organisation she must have known was considered a terrorist group by the rest of the country, whether she believed in it or had been brainwashed.
Unfortunately, as much as people will want to 'help' or ensure we treat her 'fairly', I think we have to draw a line and say with such extreme actions come extreme consequences, and for there not to be would send the wrong message to others with similar intentions."
By her own admission when asked about the beheadings she said "I'm ok with that" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"She will now say she’s sorry for joining on camera etc we all know it’s just a pr stunt , what she really says and thinks off camera is another story altogether, let her rot in hell !!
The issue I have with that is... It doesn't fix the problem. If we keep doing the same things the same we will always see the same outcome. "
People like easy answers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
At 15 I was coerced into joyriding and drinking in carparks.
Not joining a terrorist groups.
She also shows no remorse for her actions.
So no. She can stay and deal with her life choices. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At 15 I was coerced into joyriding and drinking in carparks.
Not joining a terrorist groups.
She also shows no remorse for her actions.
So no. She can stay and deal with her life choices."
And joy riders never do any harm
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At 15 I was coerced into joyriding and drinking in carparks.
Not joining a terrorist groups.
She also shows no remorse for her actions.
So no. She can stay and deal with her life choices.
And joy riders never do any harm
"
Of course they do, I am an adult and understand that now.
I wasnt out supporting beheadings and suicide bombings though ... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At 15 I was coerced into joyriding and drinking in carparks.
Not joining a terrorist groups.
She also shows no remorse for her actions.
So no. She can stay and deal with her life choices.
And joy riders never do any harm
Of course they do, I am an adult and understand that now.
I wasnt out supporting beheadings and suicide bombings though ..."
True.
I dont think it's a black and white issue.
Whilst I'm not sure I feel sorry for.. hasn't she lost her 3 kids?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it's complicated.
From one point of view yes she knowingly joined a terrorist group and should suffer the consequences of that.
However
She was a young impressionable kid and at that age it's known that the teenage brain is really not able to be logical I am not making light of this anyone who has a teenager will agree.
I think the biggest point is not just that she made a huge massive error in judgement but it's if she genuinely regrets and understands that what she did was wrong and doesn't still share the same ideology?
If she does she could be extremely dangerous and used as a tool to recruit other young impressionable girl's or as a valuable tool for the prevention of this.
For the majority will think she shouldn't be allowed back,I find it difficult not to agree.
In her initial interview in her refugee camp she showed no regret and felt it was in her rights to come back to the UK to have her baby!
That was the time she should have apologised and shown remorse. If she does it now it’s because her pr team have told her to! "
Spot on. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
No sympathy for such idiots who supported terrorists around the world who drove vans ,trucks over innocent people who were walking on the pavement or shopping in markets . In Nice , a trucker killed 87 shoppers including women and kids.
We had knife attacks in london .
We have to overlook our shoulders wherever we go these days .
She can rot in hell there where she is."
Could not agree more. Let the buck tooth bitch, and her bastard kids, rot in the shit hole she chose to go to. Also, could you imagine how much in protective measures she would cost the tax payer. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t"
Good question. The standing is:
For foreign nationals who are convicted of a criminal offence in the UK, only the most severe cases lead to deportation. ... They may, however, be deported if a successful case is made that deportation would be 'conducive to the public good'
So bearing this in mind if we deport others to be dealt with by their own country, why are we right not to accept criminal uk citizens back into the country. They are our problem, not another country’s problem. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"She will next be seen, in a dingy in the English Channel 
Lol being escorted, sorry...intercepted!"
Border force... Hoo hah... There's a misnomer if ever there was one... Concierges more like... Straight to the best Western jeeves and don't spare the horses |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t"
It is perhaps time to reconsider who and how we gift citizenship and clarifying what is required to keep it. Is it comparible in any way with the Windrush episode.? As far as law is concerned. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago
harrow |
"there are dozens of brits who went to ISIS they are sat in syria in camps as are all the other western terrorists... the question is what do you do with them Begum included..
leave them there? then you are building terror for future years?
bring them home.. not popular but at least you know what they are up to. (and dozens have already sneaked back without a squeek from the press).. so are we just picking on this one niave/ immature woman?"
Home?! She is home where quite frankly she can rot. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t"
But she's not "coming home" she's chose where her home is and home is where the heart is, She chose her waterloo!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t"
I would have thought if you committed a crime here,you would be tried here? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t But she's not "coming home" she's chose where her home is and home is where the heart is, She chose her waterloo!"
Where was she born? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t
I would have thought if you committed a crime here,you would be tried here?"
Tried on what theres no hard evidence of terrorism, the ppl want to see justice,she's in a better place! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t
I would have thought if you committed a crime here,you would be tried here? Tried on what theres no hard evidence of terrorism, the ppl want to see justice,she's in a better place! "
I was answering the lad who asked about committing a crime here |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need. "
These were fed drugs, booze etc. At 15, any kid in their right mind knows that blowing people up with bombs isnt right. Teenagers getting bladdered on booze, and some scum showing them affection when theres none at home is a different kettle of fish. How can you compare the 2. Tell you what though, you have her live with you, and bring however many kids she has left, and you support her and pay to keep her safe from the angry mob |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
"
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3?  one has to wonder why"
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth "
I think they all died of natural causes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. "
don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
These were fed drugs, booze etc. At 15, any kid in their right mind knows that blowing people up with bombs isnt right. Teenagers getting bladdered on booze, and some scum showing them affection when theres none at home is a different kettle of fish. How can you compare the 2. Tell you what though, you have her live with you, and bring however many kids she has left, and you support her and pay to keep her safe from the angry mob"
fed drugs hahahahah get a grip |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes "
Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!"
So what are you suggesting? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t But she's not "coming home" she's chose where her home is and home is where the heart is, She chose her waterloo!
Where was she born?"
She was born here. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!"
post said natural causes I simply asked are Rocket strikes natural causes let’s not forget innocent baby’s died or just because of the mother it doesn’t matter? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t
It is perhaps time to reconsider who and how we gift citizenship and clarifying what is required to keep it. Is it comparible in any way with the Windrush episode.? As far as law is concerned. "
She was born here. Her race, ethnicity, religion and any subsequent crimes she may commit mean she’s British. It’s not simply a question of “gifting” citizenship to her because of asylum, she’s British |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t But she's not "coming home" she's chose where her home is and home is where the heart is, She chose her waterloo!
Where was she born?
She was born here. "
So this is her home
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!
So what are you suggesting?"
Im suggesting that she in fact lost 2 too due to negligence and malnutrition, akso due to the fact that she chose a shite life to raise children, possibly made a vital error! the last interview with sufficient evidence shows she didnt have any sympathy to the decisions made in the past, also brainwashed on the internet possibly, No drugs or alcohol involved, she chose to cross the border, left the country met uo with ISIS, 3rd child born within the "refugee" camp as the PRESS call it, Its in fact a prison that holds over 30,000 ISIS. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Quick question for everyone. If a foreign national commits a crime over here do you think they should be sent home. I only ask because as much as many of us my not like it, Begum is a British national and should be allowed to come home. If this British government doesn’t allow her home, it sets a very dangerous precedent for those of us born here but have parents that weren’t But she's not "coming home" she's chose where her home is and home is where the heart is, She chose her waterloo!
Where was she born?
She was born here.
So this is her home
"
Yes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!
So what are you suggesting? Im suggesting that she in fact lost 2 too due to negligence and malnutrition, akso due to the fact that she chose a shite life to raise children, possibly made a vital error! the last interview with sufficient evidence shows she didnt have any sympathy to the decisions made in the past, also brainwashed on the internet possibly, No drugs or alcohol involved, she chose to cross the border, left the country met uo with ISIS, 3rd child born within the "refugee" camp as the PRESS call it, Its in fact a prison that holds over 30,000 ISIS."
So she is responsible for her children's deaths? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!
So what are you suggesting? Im suggesting that she in fact lost 2 too due to negligence and malnutrition, akso due to the fact that she chose a shite life to raise children, possibly made a vital error! the last interview with sufficient evidence shows she didnt have any sympathy to the decisions made in the past, also brainwashed on the internet possibly, No drugs or alcohol involved, she chose to cross the border, left the country met uo with ISIS, 3rd child born within the "refugee" camp as the PRESS call it, Its in fact a prison that holds over 30,000 ISIS.
So she is responsible for her children's deaths?"
Possibly you tell me, It's a good question, It certainly isn't ours! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!
So what are you suggesting? Im suggesting that she in fact lost 2 too due to negligence and malnutrition, akso due to the fact that she chose a shite life to raise children, possibly made a vital error! the last interview with sufficient evidence shows she didnt have any sympathy to the decisions made in the past, also brainwashed on the internet possibly, No drugs or alcohol involved, she chose to cross the border, left the country met uo with ISIS, 3rd child born within the "refugee" camp as the PRESS call it, Its in fact a prison that holds over 30,000 ISIS.
So she is responsible for her children's deaths? Possibly you tell me, It's a good question, It certainly isn't ours!"
She possibly bears some responsibility but I'm not sure she wanted her children to die. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Did I hear right that she has had 3 children and all have died? All 3? one has to wonder why
Because they were killed in rockets arracks?
I think at least 2 of them were?
Didnt she lose a baby in childbirth
I think they all died of natural causes. don’t think rocket attacks are natural causes Right so how many parents are so far away that a rocket strike kills their children!! was she out for the day!
So what are you suggesting? Im suggesting that she in fact lost 2 too due to negligence and malnutrition, akso due to the fact that she chose a shite life to raise children, possibly made a vital error! the last interview with sufficient evidence shows she didnt have any sympathy to the decisions made in the past, also brainwashed on the internet possibly, No drugs or alcohol involved, she chose to cross the border, left the country met uo with ISIS, 3rd child born within the "refugee" camp as the PRESS call it, Its in fact a prison that holds over 30,000 ISIS.
So she is responsible for her children's deaths? Possibly you tell me, It's a good question, It certainly isn't ours!
She possibly bears some responsibility but I'm not sure she wanted her children to die."
I didnt say that! i stated fact, I dont think normal mother want their children dead! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Absolutely keep her out uk, she does not belong here, she left knowing exactly what she was doing... she made her bed she can lie in it! "
Good girl, and she doesnt like a drink of spiced run!!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Absolutely keep her out uk, she does not belong here, she left knowing exactly what she was doing... she made her bed she can lie in it! Good girl, and she doesnt like a drink of spiced run!!"
She's no getting my rum... ITS MINE  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"Absolutely keep her out uk, she does not belong here, she left knowing exactly what she was doing... she made her bed she can lie in it! Good girl, and she doesnt like a drink of spiced run!!
She's no getting my rum... ITS MINE "
I need some |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m sorry regardless of human rights or anything like that or how anyone else sees it in my opinion if you go to or get involved in anything terrorist towards any country you should be held accountable for your actions |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"I’m sorry regardless of human rights or anything like that or how anyone else sees it in my opinion if you go to or get involved in anything terrorist towards any country you should be held accountable for your actions "
good girl agreed
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration "
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Shouldn't be allowed back. She knew what she was doing, if the group again started up she would be first there.
If she does get back the death sentence it should be"
Erm.
We dont have the death penalty in this country.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree."
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree.
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
"
What we did as far as isis was concerned was to stop their oppression of their own people, they were slaughtering their own in the name of religion which couldn't be allowed and by doing that we gave them a focal point for their anger. As far as Bush was concerned then I've no argument there if your talking about control of the oil fields.
Ultimately its the preachers of hate in this country we need to stop and their followers, I'm sure Jamie's parents would've felt just the same as Lee Rigby's regarding those who are responsible for their sons deaths.
Speaking as a father who's lost his son I'd personally like to see the ones who I blame publicly hung, and if that doesn't fit in with our well rounded society then its just too bad.
I just think there's far more needy people who need the help.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The other question, ISIS was defeated but not the ideology. How do you determine if that is still present?
"
You won't ever stop that sadly, there will be another group out there to take thier place soon enough. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree.
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
What we did as far as isis was concerned was to stop their oppression of their own people, they were slaughtering their own in the name of religion which couldn't be allowed and by doing that we gave them a focal point for their anger. As far as Bush was concerned then I've no argument there if your talking about control of the oil fields.
Ultimately its the preachers of hate in this country we need to stop and their followers, I'm sure Jamie's parents would've felt just the same as Lee Rigby's regarding those who are responsible for their sons deaths.
Speaking as a father who's lost his son I'd personally like to see the ones who I blame publicly hung, and if that doesn't fit in with our well rounded society then its just too bad.
I just think there's far more needy people who need the help.
"
ISIS only flourished after the us led invasion
We left a vaccine and helped stir up extremism
There is a great doc on I player. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
These were fed drugs, booze etc. At 15, any kid in their right mind knows that blowing people up with bombs isnt right. Teenagers getting bladdered on booze, and some scum showing them affection when theres none at home is a different kettle of fish. How can you compare the 2. Tell you what though, you have her live with you, and bring however many kids she has left, and you support her and pay to keep her safe from the angry mob fed drugs hahahahah get a grip"
So those girls in rochdale, rotherham etc didnt get hooked on crack and smack given to them by the scum thst abused them.. behave will ya |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
These were fed drugs, booze etc. At 15, any kid in their right mind knows that blowing people up with bombs isnt right. Teenagers getting bladdered on booze, and some scum showing them affection when theres none at home is a different kettle of fish. How can you compare the 2. Tell you what though, you have her live with you, and bring however many kids she has left, and you support her and pay to keep her safe from the angry mob fed drugs hahahahah get a grip
So those girls in rochdale, rotherham etc didnt get hooked on crack and smack given to them by the scum thst abused them.. behave will ya"
Sorry at 15yr old you know what is right from wrong, end of day she watched innocent people being beheaded, she doesn't have any rights, that scumbag should be hung!! She is an oxygen thief |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *undayTarkaMan
over a year ago
North Devon, Manchester Middleton |
"People seem to forget that this was a 15 year old child who was groomed online. The police knew about her .... And gave her a letter to give to her parents to tell them.... FFS. I equate her with the girls from Rotherham who were groomed for sex but not helped by the police or local authorities because they claimed it was their "life style choice". CHILDREN ARE CHILDREN. And all adults have a moral responsibility to help them. Sometimes the worse things they do the more help they need.
These were fed drugs, booze etc. At 15, any kid in their right mind knows that blowing people up with bombs isnt right. Teenagers getting bladdered on booze, and some scum showing them affection when theres none at home is a different kettle of fish. How can you compare the 2. Tell you what though, you have her live with you, and bring however many kids she has left, and you support her and pay to keep her safe from the angry mob fed drugs hahahahah get a grip
So those girls in rochdale, rotherham etc didnt get hooked on crack and smack given to them by the scum thst abused them.. behave will ya"
crack no, smack no, your very wrong and im against them |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
She gave up her British citizenship when she went out there. That was her choice to do so.
If she had won her case to come back to our country, she would of set a president opening the door to about 200 odd other cases of killers that want to come back. See how she has tried to change her appearance over the last couple of years to look more westernized again.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
All teens go a bit mad, all part of growing up, but it's another kettle of fish getting on a plane to join a terrorist group in the arse end of nowhere, no matter how 'impressionable' you are. Bit different than hanging round the park with your mates as a 15 year old drinking Diamond White. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree.
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
What we did as far as isis was concerned was to stop their oppression of their own people, they were slaughtering their own in the name of religion which couldn't be allowed and by doing that we gave them a focal point for their anger. As far as Bush was concerned then I've no argument there if your talking about control of the oil fields.
Ultimately its the preachers of hate in this country we need to stop and their followers, I'm sure Jamie's parents would've felt just the same as Lee Rigby's regarding those who are responsible for their sons deaths.
Speaking as a father who's lost his son I'd personally like to see the ones who I blame publicly hung, and if that doesn't fit in with our well rounded society then its just too bad.
I just think there's far more needy people who need the help.
ISIS only flourished after the us led invasion
We left a vaccine and helped stir up extremism
There is a great doc on I player."
I check it out later Lionel, thing is as far as the middle east is concerned and twisted interpretations of peaceable religions is your dammed if you do or don't...
When I lived in Australia I worked with a guy from Basra in Iraq.
I asked him if life there had got better now the dictatorship of Saddam was over?
Despite the obvious genocide and humanitarian atrocities he committed I was surprised to hear my friend say now things were worse. The elimination of Saddam had created a political vacuum and without their fearful dictator ruling with an iron fist there was a lawless society where female assaults and robberies were commonplace.
Soldiers were there to police the fledgling democracy but had little power. They were told not to directly engage due to the sensitive political environment.
To use that example of middle Eastern problems what do you do as a world leader..? Stand back and allow the genocide of innocents or step in knowing that once you depose the man responsible for these killings you'll be fanning the flames of resistance.
One persons help is another's poking your nose in and oppression from soldiers and faraway governments. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree.
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
What we did as far as isis was concerned was to stop their oppression of their own people, they were slaughtering their own in the name of religion which couldn't be allowed and by doing that we gave them a focal point for their anger. As far as Bush was concerned then I've no argument there if your talking about control of the oil fields.
Ultimately its the preachers of hate in this country we need to stop and their followers, I'm sure Jamie's parents would've felt just the same as Lee Rigby's regarding those who are responsible for their sons deaths.
Speaking as a father who's lost his son I'd personally like to see the ones who I blame publicly hung, and if that doesn't fit in with our well rounded society then its just too bad.
I just think there's far more needy people who need the help.
ISIS only flourished after the us led invasion
We left a vaccine and helped stir up extremism
There is a great doc on I player.
I check it out later Lionel, thing is as far as the middle east is concerned and twisted interpretations of peaceable religions is your dammed if you do or don't...
When I lived in Australia I worked with a guy from Basra in Iraq.
I asked him if life there had got better now the dictatorship of Saddam was over?
Despite the obvious genocide and humanitarian atrocities he committed I was surprised to hear my friend say now things were worse. The elimination of Saddam had created a political vacuum and without their fearful dictator ruling with an iron fist there was a lawless society where female assaults and robberies were commonplace.
Soldiers were there to police the fledgling democracy but had little power. They were told not to directly engage due to the sensitive political environment.
To use that example of middle Eastern problems what do you do as a world leader..? Stand back and allow the genocide of innocents or step in knowing that once you depose the man responsible for these killings you'll be fanning the flames of resistance.
One persons help is another's poking your nose in and oppression from soldiers and faraway governments."
It's really good..what the Americans did was jaw dropping..they basically dismantled the entire structure and essentially set the country alight.
Saddam was a dictator but he kept the people.
We also used to sell him weapons and the anericans funded the mudjahadeen(watch that Charlie's Wilson war,its all about that)
Its certainly not an easy issue but we certainly did little to help with bush and co.
But I guess oil plays a big part too
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I see a lot of people defending her using the age argument by saying at 15 she was a child so therefore didn't know her own mind, a British soldier can loose his life in combat aged just 3yrs older.
Only the idiots defended Jamie Bulgers killers for being too young and those 2 were 5yrs younger than she, I saw the interview with her coldly admitting she'd witnessed beheadings etc and saw no remorse or horror in her recollections, she was just so matter of fact about it I was waiting for her to say "so what if I have..?"
It would be for what shes capable of as well as what she's done that I would categorically say no to a return or rehabilitation.
I'm dam sure there's more deserving cases of abuse in our own country that needs our attention.
Let her in and prepare for the floodgates to be opened, she who lived by the sword...
I don't think anyone is saying ignore what she is done but her age should be took into consideration
But surely coming from Liverpool you would've like the rest of us not said that about John Venables and Robert Thompson after they killed little Jamie Bulger?
Both of them only 10 and despite their own abusive claims I'm sure we all would've gladly have seen them swing from the gallows.
There comes a point where we are responsible for our actions, not at any point has she looked sorry for participating in what she's done or shown any remorse, like I say if she's been indoctrinated to the point that beheadings have become second nature and the question of then doesn't even raise an eyebrow then what if she becomes responsible for plotting killings over here...
I respect anyone who practices their religion or faith but these twisted fuckers genuinely believe they will get on better in the afterlife should they follow the teachings of the likes of Anjem Choudry.
You can't reason or educate these people, I came across an ISIS beheading video that an idiot friend sent me and anyone else who's seen one would surely agree.
What they did was horrific but I'm not sure hanging 10 year olds is the sign of a healthy society.
I dont think anyone who argue isis did some barbarous things.
Maybe if we hadn't had decided to set the middle east alight with bush ,things nat have been a bit calmer?
What we did as far as isis was concerned was to stop their oppression of their own people, they were slaughtering their own in the name of religion which couldn't be allowed and by doing that we gave them a focal point for their anger. As far as Bush was concerned then I've no argument there if your talking about control of the oil fields.
Ultimately its the preachers of hate in this country we need to stop and their followers, I'm sure Jamie's parents would've felt just the same as Lee Rigby's regarding those who are responsible for their sons deaths.
Speaking as a father who's lost his son I'd personally like to see the ones who I blame publicly hung, and if that doesn't fit in with our well rounded society then its just too bad.
I just think there's far more needy people who need the help.
ISIS only flourished after the us led invasion
We left a vaccine and helped stir up extremism
There is a great doc on I player.
I check it out later Lionel, thing is as far as the middle east is concerned and twisted interpretations of peaceable religions is your dammed if you do or don't...
When I lived in Australia I worked with a guy from Basra in Iraq.
I asked him if life there had got better now the dictatorship of Saddam was over?
Despite the obvious genocide and humanitarian atrocities he committed I was surprised to hear my friend say now things were worse. The elimination of Saddam had created a political vacuum and without their fearful dictator ruling with an iron fist there was a lawless society where female assaults and robberies were commonplace.
Soldiers were there to police the fledgling democracy but had little power. They were told not to directly engage due to the sensitive political environment.
To use that example of middle Eastern problems what do you do as a world leader..? Stand back and allow the genocide of innocents or step in knowing that once you depose the man responsible for these killings you'll be fanning the flames of resistance.
One persons help is another's poking your nose in and oppression from soldiers and faraway governments.
It's really good..what the Americans did was jaw dropping..they basically dismantled the entire structure and essentially set the country alight.
Saddam was a dictator but he kept the people.
We also used to sell him weapons and the anericans funded the mudjahadeen(watch that Charlie's Wilson war,its all about that)
Its certainly not an easy issue but we certainly did little to help with bush and co.
But I guess oil plays a big part too
"
The funding of the mudjahadeen was just an indirect conflict with the Russians, they of course eventually changed their name to al-qaeda.
Bush had his own agenda and both him and his dad had business dealings with the Bin Laden's, proof in why when all flights were grounded on 9/11 the only planes allowed to fly were military, airforce 1 and a plane taking the Bin Laden family out of America. Your also right in as much as we shouldn't have been so easily dupped into the idea of WMD in Iraq.
I'll check out that documentary though
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I get that folk can be manipulated & when your in it, its not simple by any means...you dont follow its your life on the line, takes a very brave not to...its the same types of fears that are running folks thought with covid vaccine...if you don't you'll kill or be killed.
Regardless, this is the disadvantage to having duel citizenship, should you piss off one country, they can ditch you on the other (same issue with windrush deportations really).
The uk were even doing this with commonwealth citizens who had right to abode with no restrictions (i.e. Canadian's, aussies) at one point & no they hadnt committed crimes, they were just removing rights for no reason when folk came into country (usually after visiting home)
To come through customs & not know if your mum will get in behind ya after doing nowt but visit family, is scary as a kid.
Her best chance now is to go to bangladesh & live her life...however i'm sure she'll be known their too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If in doubt over how easy it is for folk to follow go look uo the 1970's experiment where they took a bunch of folk, put them in a prison, made some prisoners & others officers....to follow the crowd like a sheep & do things you would never think of doing is all about environment & suggestion.
Sorry cant mind the name of it but its well known. W |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I get that folk can be manipulated & when your in it, its not simple by any means...you dont follow its your life on the line, takes a very brave not to...its the same types of fears that are running folks thought with covid vaccine...if you don't you'll kill or be killed.
Regardless, this is the disadvantage to having duel citizenship, should you piss off one country, they can ditch you on the other (same issue with windrush deportations really).
The uk were even doing this with commonwealth citizens who had right to abode with no restrictions (i.e. Canadian's, aussies) at one point & no they hadnt committed crimes, they were just removing rights for no reason when folk came into country (usually after visiting home)
To come through customs & not know if your mum will get in behind ya after doing nowt but visit family, is scary as a kid.
Her best chance now is to go to bangladesh & live her life...however i'm sure she'll be known their too."
She's not a Bangladesh citizen, she can't go there, she's been made stateless |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I don't think any of us can know what she is like as a person, whether that is evil and vile as some have said or vulnerable and naive as others think. The question the courts were looking at wasn't whether to let her back and have her freedom but whether to seek to bring her back so she had a fair chance to present her case against the home secretary who took away her citizenship.
I have no idea whether she is a nice misguided person or pure evil and frankly don't care - I trust that if/when she ever came to court people with access to far more material than whatever the press decides to print will be better able than I to make a judgement.
In the meantime, I do think the judgement is worrying. They have effectively said that if a suitably senior politician tells the court a person is dangerous the court has to at least take seriously the idea that person no longer has the right to a fair trial. Given the behavoir of home secretaries in recent years I find that very disturbing.
I also don't understand the argument that she is too big a security risk to return to this country fir a hearing. She could be brought back and locked up until she had her hearing. If the court decides she should be treated as a British citizen she would then immediately face arrest and trial for her crimes. I'm not sure though if/where they would be able to deport her should she loose her appeal - presumably in that case she could be detained indefinitely as an illegal with the emphasis on her to find somewhere to go.
People would obviously complain about the cost of this but I would rather live in a country that spends too much on ensuring justice is upheld than one where justice can be circumvented by politicians seeking public approval.
Mr |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *inaryGuyMan
over a year ago
Near the River |
"If in doubt over how easy it is for folk to follow go look uo the 1970's experiment where they took a bunch of folk, put them in a prison, made some prisoners & others officers....to follow the crowd like a sheep & do things you would never think of doing is all about environment & suggestion.
Sorry cant mind the name of it but its well known. W "
It’s the Stanford Prison experiment. Can’t remember how I know this trivia |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"If in doubt over how easy it is for folk to follow go look uo the 1970's experiment where they took a bunch of folk, put them in a prison, made some prisoners & others officers....to follow the crowd like a sheep & do things you would never think of doing is all about environment & suggestion.
Sorry cant mind the name of it but its well known. W
It’s the Stanford Prison experiment. Can’t remember how I know this trivia "
It’s now a movie on prime |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *inaryGuyMan
over a year ago
Near the River |
"If in doubt over how easy it is for folk to follow go look uo the 1970's experiment where they took a bunch of folk, put them in a prison, made some prisoners & others officers....to follow the crowd like a sheep & do things you would never think of doing is all about environment & suggestion.
Sorry cant mind the name of it but its well known. W
It’s the Stanford Prison experiment. Can’t remember how I know this trivia
It’s now a movie on prime "
Thanks, will look it up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Bring her back to the UK, take her to trial, spend millions of tax-payers pounds on court costs whilst she has expensive lawyers paid for by many bleeding hearts. Find her not guilty/not culpable due to her age/vulnerability, give her a free house, job/free money and anonymity and in 10 years time or less she will be on Celebrity Big Brother. You know this will happen anyway, so why fight it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't think any of us can know what she is like as a person, whether that is evil and vile as some have said or vulnerable and naive as others think. The question the courts were looking at wasn't whether to let her back and have her freedom but whether to seek to bring her back so she had a fair chance to present her case against the home secretary who took away her citizenship.
I have no idea whether she is a nice misguided person or pure evil and frankly don't care - I trust that if/when she ever came to court people with access to far more material than whatever the press decides to print will be better able than I to make a judgement.
In the meantime, I do think the judgement is worrying. They have effectively said that if a suitably senior politician tells the court a person is dangerous the court has to at least take seriously the idea that person no longer has the right to a fair trial. Given the behavoir of home secretaries in recent years I find that very disturbing.
I also don't understand the argument that she is too big a security risk to return to this country fir a hearing. She could be brought back and locked up until she had her hearing. If the court decides she should be treated as a British citizen she would then immediately face arrest and trial for her crimes. I'm not sure though if/where they would be able to deport her should she loose her appeal - presumably in that case she could be detained indefinitely as an illegal with the emphasis on her to find somewhere to go.
People would obviously complain about the cost of this but I would rather live in a country that spends too much on ensuring justice is upheld than one where justice can be circumvented by politicians seeking public approval.
Mr"
Hear hear |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I don't think any of us can know what she is like as a person, whether that is evil and vile as some have said or vulnerable and naive as others think. The question the courts were looking at wasn't whether to let her back and have her freedom but whether to seek to bring her back so she had a fair chance to present her case against the home secretary who took away her citizenship.
I have no idea whether she is a nice misguided person or pure evil and frankly don't care - I trust that if/when she ever came to court people with access to far more material than whatever the press decides to print will be better able than I to make a judgement.
In the meantime, I do think the judgement is worrying. They have effectively said that if a suitably senior politician tells the court a person is dangerous the court has to at least take seriously the idea that person no longer has the right to a fair trial. Given the behavoir of home secretaries in recent years I find that very disturbing.
I also don't understand the argument that she is too big a security risk to return to this country fir a hearing. She could be brought back and locked up until she had her hearing. If the court decides she should be treated as a British citizen she would then immediately face arrest and trial for her crimes. I'm not sure though if/where they would be able to deport her should she loose her appeal - presumably in that case she could be detained indefinitely as an illegal with the emphasis on her to find somewhere to go.
People would obviously complain about the cost of this but I would rather live in a country that spends too much on ensuring justice is upheld than one where justice can be circumvented by politicians seeking public approval.
Mr"
I cuncur with that since i've been arguing similar view points on other areas.
I was also under the understanding she has or is entitled to a Bangladeshi citizenship which means she isn't stateless.
for instance: I lost mine & my eldest's papers for my other citizenship like 18 years ago but I still had entitlement to them, just had to get new copies of papers, is all. I could still enter & stay at any time though.
yet I have one child entitled and the other not due to changing rules on 3rd gen born outside country, my eldest was before & my youngest after this date.
yup, that's the one. cheers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm not comfortable with the Government having the right to strip British Born Citizens of their Citizenship.
I'm not defending her choices in any way, shape or form. Just like I don't defend British drug mules in foreign prisons. But no one's trying to take their Citizenship away either... This is not a legal issue, but a purely political one and its about optics only!
Ask yourself what rights would you be willing to let the Guv take from you or your kids, on the basis of being found guilty of a crime...? How about no right to vote if you have points on your licence? Or no more NHS access if you drive over the limit?
If someone actively chooses to relinquish citizenship, great! But I don't think that her majesty should just be able to take it away.
Rant over.....
"
If someone has a problem with my opinion in a public debate then please have the courage to make a robust, rational, coherent argument in the public forum. I don't appreciate, personal attacks from narrow minded racists and bigots I don't tolerate abusive PM's or being accused of sympathising with Terrorists!
You know who you are you scared, whiny, hate filled little snowflakes! You have all been blocked and reported! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you "
Thank you for the clear summation. You laid that out beautifully!
What would be the legal perspective if the individual has UK citizenship but is Eligible for foreign citizenship.
Ie no dual citizenship but a right to apply. Could you just assume that the country in question would grant said status?
If they denied said application which country would be responsible for rendering the individual stateless? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you
Thank you for the clear summation. You laid that out beautifully!
What would be the legal perspective if the individual has UK citizenship but is Eligible for foreign citizenship.
Ie no dual citizenship but a right to apply. Could you just assume that the country in question would grant said status?
If they denied said application which country would be responsible for rendering the individual stateless?"
I’m no expert btw !!
In short.. you can’t assume right to citizenship/leave to remain upon application.
If you hold dual citizenship then state A or B can rescind (many caveats) but if you hold only 1 nationality/citizenship then said state cannot legally make you stateless..
I think lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you "
1. yes, though many are made stateless due to war, some choose it as a right of life to go where they chose as per their ancestors, typically indigenous (they don't recognize the state) like sama peoples
2. yes, especially when they are involved in mass genocide type activities which she was.
they can as they can demand someone's return from another country for appearance in court (if they have extradition agreements)
3. as I stated above as my citizen status is similar. (her parents are dual, as is she) she is entitled to one of another country therefore she is not stateless & as Uk moved to revoke before Bangladesh the burden of her citizenship lies with Bangladesh.
Put it this way currently I can fly in & out on 2 different passports...hence the biometrics surge...much harder to fraud.
Not as per abuse one....don't attack people personally for having a different opinion, discuss the view point with your own opinions/facts. without a view from all sides there is no debate...don't name call...its low & proves you've already lost with nowt else of intellegence to say.
If you ain't willing to say it publically don't say it at all... because you know better. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you "
The guardian did a good synopsis on this in 2019, can’t post the link. Interestingly even though her citizenship had been removed, her son who was only a week old at the time, was born before the UK removed her citizenship so remained a British citizen through his birth mother and had the right to return. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you
The guardian did a good synopsis on this in 2019, can’t post the link. Interestingly even though her citizenship had been removed, her son who was only a week old at the time, was born before the UK removed her citizenship so remained a British citizen through his birth mother and had the right to return. "
Didn't all of her children die ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you
The guardian did a good synopsis on this in 2019, can’t post the link. Interestingly even though her citizenship had been removed, her son who was only a week old at the time, was born before the UK removed her citizenship so remained a British citizen through his birth mother and had the right to return.
Didn't all of her children die ?"
They might, I’m not sure. She still had a young son in 2019 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you
The guardian did a good synopsis on this in 2019, can’t post the link. Interestingly even though her citizenship had been removed, her son who was only a week old at the time, was born before the UK removed her citizenship so remained a British citizen through his birth mother and had the right to return.
Didn't all of her children die ?"
Yes. All 3 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it all boils down to 3 things..
1 - as far as I’m aware it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless
2 - however.. the Gov can, if it believes the individual is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK”, remove citizenship from people naturalised in the UK or those with dual citizenship
3 - therefore ....if you are of British parentage and born in the UK can you legally be stripped of citizenship without being a citizen of another nation?
Over to you
1. yes, though many are made stateless due to war, some choose it as a right of life to go where they chose as per their ancestors, typically indigenous (they don't recognize the state) like sama peoples
2. yes, especially when they are involved in mass genocide type activities which she was.
they can as they can demand someone's return from another country for appearance in court (if they have extradition agreements)
3. as I stated above as my citizen status is similar. (her parents are dual, as is she) she is entitled to one of another country therefore she is not stateless & as Uk moved to revoke before Bangladesh the burden of her citizenship lies with Bangladesh.
Put it this way currently I can fly in & out on 2 different passports...hence the biometrics surge...much harder to fraud.
Not as per abuse one....don't attack people personally for having a different opinion, discuss the view point with your own opinions/facts. without a view from all sides there is no debate...don't name call...its low & proves you've already lost with nowt else of intellegence to say.
If you ain't willing to say it publically don't say it at all... because you know better. "
As far as I’m aware... not an expert.. as she has had her citizenship revoked she can’t legally enter the UK.
British Citizenship/nationality can be revoked if conducive to the public good/benefit - However it is illegal if revocation would render that person stateless..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At least she can't appeal to the fucking European Court thank fuck for small mercia "
she can appeal to international courts if she thinks its wrong. I doubt she'd win though.
She might win on a technicality as she was unable to present her side of the case in her birth country before a decision was made to strip her off citizenship. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At least she can't appeal to the fucking European Court thank fuck for small mercia
she can appeal to international courts if she thinks its wrong. I doubt she'd win though.
She might win on a technicality as she was unable to present her side of the case in her birth country before a decision was made to strip her off citizenship. "
You turn your back on a part of who you are, be a place that wants to destroy that very place. Then ask to come back to the place you betrayed and became the enemy by your own will.
Sucks it didn’t work out for ya eh? But stop the insults by fighting for your place. You don’t have one. No one but herself did this.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so she hates her country and wants to live here, why not we let everyone else in, joking, but she only came here to begine with because we are a soft touch"
Jesus. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At least she can't appeal to the fucking European Court thank fuck for small mercia
she can appeal to international courts if she thinks its wrong. I doubt she'd win though.
She might win on a technicality as she was unable to present her side of the case in her birth country before a decision was made to strip her off citizenship.
You turn your back on a part of who you are, be a place that wants to destroy that very place. Then ask to come back to the place you betrayed and became the enemy by your own will.
Sucks it didn’t work out for ya eh? But stop the insults by fighting for your place. You don’t have one. No one but herself did this.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. "
Didn't say i agree with her case merely stating law is law as i do in most areas.
Technicalities can get the whole case thrown out & any restriction revoked. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
