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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

I remember a time on fab when using the forums it would be a laugh and supportive but of late I have noticed some put down comments and remarks being made on posts has any1 else noticed this attitude change? What was a really friendly place is now feeling like a place where you cant b urself! What do you guys think?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It seems pretty nice and busy to me recently..

If anyone was nasty to you or someone else, just report it. Or call it out when you see it.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"It seems pretty nice and busy to me recently..

If anyone was nasty to you or someone else, just report it. Or call it out when you see it. "

Exactly what I was just going to say . No need for rudeness and bad manners. Keep it polite and friendly peeps

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"It seems pretty nice and busy to me recently..

If anyone was nasty to you or someone else, just report it. Or call it out when you see it. "

just some comments you see u think to urself why are you commenting saying that? If u have nothing nice or positive to say then say nothing! U nver notice that?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It has been really nice and positive from what I have seen recently

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I've followed your green arrow Op and yes, have seen a little sarcasm but not nastiness? If you have people being mean to you via DM's, always best to report to Admin.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"It seems pretty nice and busy to me recently..

If anyone was nasty to you or someone else, just report it. Or call it out when you see it. just some comments you see u think to urself why are you commenting saying that? If u have nothing nice or positive to say then say nothing! U nver notice that?"

I like sarcasm. Yes, some might not get it because it can come across as not intended, or some overdose it or aim at people in a vulnerable position or chose wrong timing... (not always knowingly) so maybe there is a chance you have mistaken it for that?

Lockdown causes lots of frustration. That might be to blame too.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I generally only post on light hearted banter subjects. I'm sure if I engaged in more serious debate, I'd likely experience friction.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"It seems pretty nice and busy to me recently..

If anyone was nasty to you or someone else, just report it. Or call it out when you see it. just some comments you see u think to urself why are you commenting saying that? If u have nothing nice or positive to say then say nothing! U nver notice that?

I like sarcasm. Yes, some might not get it because it can come across as not intended, or some overdose it or aim at people in a vulnerable position or chose wrong timing... (not always knowingly) so maybe there is a chance you have mistaken it for that?

Lockdown causes lots of frustration. That might be to blame too. "

defo agree that lockdown has had an affect on my mood and emotion maybe I am being a little bit sensitive maybe it's just the mood and way things are right now

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By *eliWoman  over a year ago

.

You're not alone in feeling that way, it's part of the reason some of the older posters are taking a break. Always be yourself - it's how you find your people. Some might not like it but sod it.

I think there are still places where you can find a laugh, Jim and Ash do lovely engaging and inclusive threads which are nice to read for lighthearted fun. Some of the photo challenges are good to look at - the creativity shown is brilliant and generally they try and include everyone, it's not as easy as it looks though!

I've noticed a few snide comments here and there but I think the meh of lockdown might be why? I'm not sure. It's nowhere near as bad as it was earlier in lockdown.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I am finding it to be a supportive place and with good humour and banter. Very glass half full kinda guy, I have to admit. I have found the site to be a lifeline on days when PTSD goes to the dark side!

I think that if you try to think positive, you get positive..

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

I think the sharp comments and snide remarks have always been here to a greater or lesser extent and while I do think there have been times in the past year where it appears to have got out of hand, it does seem calmer lately and certainly the digs seem less prevalent.

I tend to ignore them mostly when I see them - although will occasionally challenge or report if they're particularly nasty though.

I also think sometimes differences of opinion can and are misconstrued as being digs and snipes, when more often than not it's just two people with different points of view.

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By *iscean_dreamMan  over a year ago

Llanelli

Think it just depends on the forum subject as to if there's anyone being a arse.

People are moody and sexualy frustrated and that's not going to help

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"You're not alone in feeling that way, it's part of the reason some of the older posters are taking a break. Always be yourself - it's how you find your people. Some might not like it but sod it.

I think there are still places where you can find a laugh, Jim and Ash do lovely engaging and inclusive threads which are nice to read for lighthearted fun. Some of the photo challenges are good to look at - the creativity shown is brilliant and generally they try and include everyone, it's not as easy as it looks though!

I've noticed a few snide comments here and there but I think the meh of lockdown might be why? I'm not sure. It's nowhere near as bad as it was earlier in lockdown. "

I also agree it's probably a minority but I would hate to see it creeping in more and maybe us losing the older exoetiaced members especially as this is a good friendly platform to use and engage in

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By *eliWoman  over a year ago

.


"

I also think sometimes differences of opinion can and are misconstrued as being digs and snipes, when more often than not it's just two people with different points of view."

Yes! People are oddly protective of their views and when they are challenged they feel it's a personal attack, failing to recognise it's not them. There's so much misinterpretation that can occur in slightly more serious threads and I've avoided those for some time now.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I think the sharp comments and snide remarks have always been here to a greater or lesser extent and while I do think there have been times in the past year where it appears to have got out of hand, it does seem calmer lately and certainly the digs seem less prevalent.

I tend to ignore them mostly when I see them - although will occasionally challenge or report if they're particularly nasty though.

I also think sometimes differences of opinion can and are misconstrued as being digs and snipes, when more often than not it's just two people with different points of view."

yea agree with the points mate and usually if I see something or subject I disagree with or dont like I simply dont comment but i have noticed others saying things and wondering why they would say anything at all

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By *estcountryDadBodMan  over a year ago

Exeter

I’ve found it a really positive place to be honest! You will always get a few negative people/comments but I try and ignore it

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I’ve found it a really positive place to be honest! You will always get a few negative people/comments but I try and ignore it "
minority for sure my friend but I would hate it to happen more often and ruin a good thing

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By *estcountryDadBodMan  over a year ago

Exeter


"I’ve found it a really positive place to be honest! You will always get a few negative people/comments but I try and ignore it minority for sure my friend but I would hate it to happen more often and ruin a good thing "

I agree

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

As a relatively recent arrival I’ve found it to be a very friendly and positive place that’s helped me during lockdown.

People do have different types of humour and that can cause misunderstandings, what is dry to one person is a dig to another, but I don’t see this so often.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

As a new forum-er (forumite?) I've got to say I find it to be a really positive space. I've not come across any negative comments but I do tend to stick to the light hearted threads where I can draw dresses on myself and stuff

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By *eliWoman  over a year ago

.


" I've noticed a few snide comments here and there but I think the meh of lockdown might be why? I'm not sure. It's nowhere near as bad as it was earlier in lockdown. I also agree it's probably a minority but I would hate to see it creeping in more and maybe us losing the older exoetiaced members especially as this is a good friendly platform to use and engage in"

Well be the change you want to see on here! Encourage and foster a more inclusive, friendlier attitude, refrain from the negative comments. Try and remember that sometimes people read things a different way and have different senses of humour.

If you do see nasty comments, call it out or report it.

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I think the sharp comments and snide remarks have always been here to a greater or lesser extent and while I do think there have been times in the past year where it appears to have got out of hand, it does seem calmer lately and certainly the digs seem less prevalent.

I tend to ignore them mostly when I see them - although will occasionally challenge or report if they're particularly nasty though.

I also think sometimes differences of opinion can and are misconstrued as being digs and snipes, when more often than not it's just two people with different points of view.

yea agree with the points mate and usually if I see something or subject I disagree with or dont like I simply dont comment but i have noticed others saying things and wondering why they would say anything at all"

I think it very much depends - debate can be a very healthy and educational thing if people are open minded enough - and if a thread is asking for opinions, or stating things on a subject I feel qualified to comment on, I'll provide an opinion.

The trouble is there are those that will take an opinion as an attack or be offended for the sake of being offended, rather than either taking that opinion on board or debating it like adults.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I think wecdid go through a bit if a slump on the forums. I think its starting to pick up a bit again. Not quite at peak levels but going in the right direction

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I think wecdid go through a bit if a slump on the forums. I think its starting to pick up a bit again. Not quite at peak levels but going in the right direction "

I agree there's been a tidal change lately - still not back to the heyday of a few years ago but definitely a level of peace seems to have descended recently

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/02/21 23:32:47]

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I think wecdid go through a bit if a slump on the forums. I think its starting to pick up a bit again. Not quite at peak levels but going in the right direction "
yea ur probably right maybe I was just worried that it would slip to the point ppl were leaving

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

None of my business really but two changes that might improve Forum ?

Limit number of new threads (rather than continuations) someone can start in a day.

Allow an OP to delete their thread if they want.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. "
yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. "

Hi Curve. I’ve always loved your user name being a big fan of that show. I often get ignored in threads, I think most people who aren’t longer term users do, but I don’t take it personal as some threads have a lot of posts.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. "

Its a shame you feel that way.

There are regulars who naturally bounce off each other, but most seem to me to be inclusive. There are some exceptions granted.

I think things feel less cliquey than maybe 18 months ago. But maybe that's vos I am not so new now x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It's been a helpful place for me at the moment

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Hi Curve. I’ve always loved your user name being a big fan of that show. I often get ignored in threads, I think most people who aren’t longer term users do, but I don’t take it personal as some threads have a lot of posts."

make some good points and it's nice to see the view of a newer member

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Its a shame you feel that way.

There are regulars who naturally bounce off each other, but most seem to me to be inclusive. There are some exceptions granted.

I think things feel less cliquey than maybe 18 months ago. But maybe that's vos I am not so new now x"

Same. I'm glad there is an influx of new members and things are more balanced.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

People will always have varying opinions

What i like about here is that if someone is being snide there are plenty to call it out....personally I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

If someone upsets you- report them

Easy peasy

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Its a shame you feel that way.

There are regulars who naturally bounce off each other, but most seem to me to be inclusive. There are some exceptions granted.

I think things feel less cliquey than maybe 18 months ago. But maybe that's vos I am not so new now x"

This has been my experience. Most long time members are very welcoming but it’s natural they will also want to chat with each other as friends do.

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

I start threads for fun and humour and include everyone male female who ever old new and I find the forums very helpful to all xx if you start threads that get negative reactions change your threads also any aliens can join too

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

And Op always be your self

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

"

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

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By *eliWoman  over a year ago

.


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Its a shame you feel that way.

There are regulars who naturally bounce off each other, but most seem to me to be inclusive. There are some exceptions granted.

I think things feel less cliquey than maybe 18 months ago. But maybe that's vos I am not so new now x

This has been my experience. Most long time members are very welcoming but it’s natural they will also want to chat with each other as friends do."

Yes, this. I have found that there are new cliques/friendship groups springing up with the new members and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing - sure at times they talk amongst themselves but we all do that. I'll just keep posting on threads that interest me.

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By *emini ManMan  over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Hi Curve. I’ve always loved your user name being a big fan of that show. I often get ignored in threads, I think most people who aren’t longer term users do, but I don’t take it personal as some threads have a lot of posts."

It's not just newbies or irregular posters that get ignored - most people do at one time or another - it's the nature of the beast - threads can move fast or a point can easily be overlooked etc or even a point doesn't need a response.

That said there are undeniably threads that can be a group of friends bouncing off one another, or threads that aren't as inclusive as they could be.

Ultimately you just have to keep chipping away and those that relate to what you say will pick up on it - I also think it's easy to feel like you've been ignored sometimes when in fact a lot of people have noticed but just not responded directly.

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

I'm a lady

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm a lady "

A booful lady

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

"

You can arse suck me anytime

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"I'm a lady

A booful lady"

As are you xx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

You can arse suck me anytime "

Is that hygienic?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums.

Hi Curve. I’ve always loved your user name being a big fan of that show. I often get ignored in threads, I think most people who aren’t longer term users do, but I don’t take it personal as some threads have a lot of posts.

It's not just newbies or irregular posters that get ignored - most people do at one time or another - it's the nature of the beast - threads can move fast or a point can easily be overlooked etc or even a point doesn't need a response.

That said there are undeniably threads that can be a group of friends bouncing off one another, or threads that aren't as inclusive as they could be.

Ultimately you just have to keep chipping away and those that relate to what you say will pick up on it - I also think it's easy to feel like you've been ignored sometimes when in fact a lot of people have noticed but just not responded directly."

I don't often agree with Mr Gemini man, but today I do

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

You can arse suck me anytime

Is that hygienic?"

I will use alcohol gel first

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest! "

Just be yourself if someone is ignorant report them and move on!!

Remember not everyone is perfect...

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

You can arse suck me anytime

Is that hygienic?"

Mask

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


" I prefer this to all the arse sucking that goes on.

That's such a good point. You always make such good points. You're great. I love you.

#brownnose

You can arse suck me anytime

Is that hygienic?

I will use alcohol gel first "

And I will wear a mask.

Oh.

Thats not going to work is it?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Not that I have noticed but mind you I would be obviously to it anyway as i float around in my own little world very detached from reality off how normal people are

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Not that I have noticed but mind you I would be obviously to it anyway as i float around in my own little world very detached from reality off how normal people are

"

Your beautiful x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I didn't mean to delete my post. I know people have developed frienships etc and as you say, they bounce off each other. I sometimes find it hard as English isn't my first language. I'm still happy to comment in the forums I find interesting and there are definitely some amazing people on the forums.

Thank you for the replies, especially the one about my username ha. I was very proud when I thought of it lol

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Not that I have noticed but mind you I would be obviously to it anyway as i float around in my own little world very detached from reality off how normal people are

Your beautiful x"

Awww thank you so much sis so are you x

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"I didn't mean to delete my post. I know people have developed frienships etc and as you say, they bounce off each other. I sometimes find it hard as English isn't my first language. I'm still happy to comment in the forums I find interesting and there are definitely some amazing people on the forums.

Thank you for the replies, especially the one about my username ha. I was very proud when I thought of it lol"

Great pics xxx

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Not that I have noticed but mind you I would be obviously to it anyway as i float around in my own little world very detached from reality off how normal people are

Your beautiful x

Awww thank you so much sis so are you x"

X

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

The .moral of this story always be

Nice

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I didn't mean to delete my post. I know people have developed frienships etc and as you say, they bounce off each other. I sometimes find it hard as English isn't my first language. I'm still happy to comment in the forums I find interesting and there are definitely some amazing people on the forums.

Thank you for the replies, especially the one about my username ha. I was very proud when I thought of it lol

Great pics xxx"

Thanks xx

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By *asmeenTV/TS  over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"I didn't mean to delete my post. I know people have developed frienships etc and as you say, they bounce off each other. I sometimes find it hard as English isn't my first language. I'm still happy to comment in the forums I find interesting and there are definitely some amazing people on the forums.

Thank you for the replies, especially the one about my username ha. I was very proud when I thought of it lol

Great pics xxx

Thanks xx"

Welcome xx

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By *aitonelMan  over a year ago

Travelling

[Removed by poster at 25/02/21 00:00:44]

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"It's been a helpful place for me at the moment"

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By *ad NannaWoman  over a year ago

East London

That would depend on which threads you read.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I didn't mean to delete my post. I know people have developed frienships etc and as you say, they bounce off each other. I sometimes find it hard as English isn't my first language. I'm still happy to comment in the forums I find interesting and there are definitely some amazing people on the forums.

Thank you for the replies, especially the one about my username ha. I was very proud when I thought of it lol"

Thanks to you too.

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By *aitonelMan  over a year ago

Travelling


"I think the sharp comments and snide remarks have always been here to a greater or lesser extent and while I do think there have been times in the past year where it appears to have got out of hand, it does seem calmer lately and certainly the digs seem less prevalent.

I tend to ignore them mostly when I see them - although will occasionally challenge or report if they're particularly nasty though.

I also think sometimes differences of opinion can and are misconstrued as being digs and snipes, when more often than not it's just two people with different points of view.

yea agree with the points mate and usually if I see something or subject I disagree with or dont like I simply dont comment but i have noticed others saying things and wondering why they would say anything at all

I think it very much depends - debate can be a very healthy and educational thing if people are open minded enough - and if a thread is asking for opinions, or stating things on a subject I feel qualified to comment on, I'll provide an opinion.

The trouble is there are those that will take an opinion as an attack or be offended for the sake of being offended, rather than either taking that opinion on board or debating it like adults."

Fully agree with this.

The key thing for a lot of it is how things are worded in the first place. Some people word things with the intent to hurt, and some word things poorly but with no intent of harm. Both ways however end up getting to people in the wrong way.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest! "

This is where I've been having more problems recently.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently."

Well if I see you again in a forum, I'll definitely won't blank you and I don't have a clique lol so all good xx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently."

What kind of problems?

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By *aitonelMan  over a year ago

Travelling


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently."

It happens to almost everyone. Even those you think are cliquey/popular/forum royalty will sometimes have their posts ignored. While I don't consider any of the above, I've been around a fair decent amount of time to be known and still often have plenty of threads or comments passed over. It is just the nature of the beast.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently."

I'm sorry to hear that and since you commented on my posts I do hope I didn't skip you. I try my best to be inclusive. Sometimes i run out of energy to reply and sometimes it's a simple omission in rush.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently.

Well if I see you again in a forum, I'll definitely won't blank you and I don't have a clique lol so all good xx"

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently.

I'm sorry to hear that and since you commented on my posts I do hope I didn't skip you. I try my best to be inclusive. Sometimes i run out of energy to reply and sometimes it's a simple omission in rush. "

You're one of the good guys

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I personally find that most of my posts get blanked and I feel that it's very cliquey in the forums. yea I have noticed on some subjects it can seem cliquey and puts me off commenting on occasion if I am honest!

This is where I've been having more problems recently.

I'm sorry to hear that and since you commented on my posts I do hope I didn't skip you. I try my best to be inclusive. Sometimes i run out of energy to reply and sometimes it's a simple omission in rush.

You're one of the good guys "

I like to think there are more good than bad x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I forgot to add to this that not getting a reply in threads does definitely not mean you’re being ignored !

I see lots of interesting posts I don’t reply to because I don’t like posting too much in a single thread. I also read lots of threads without posting.

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By *rincess peachWoman  over a year ago

shits creek


"I think wecdid go through a bit if a slump on the forums. I think its starting to pick up a bit again. Not quite at peak levels but going in the right direction yea ur probably right maybe I was just worried that it would slip to the point ppl were leaving "

People have left due to many reasons including the behaviour and comments of others for years. Some of the exits have been electric.

You'll always have divisive views due to people having differing experiences, and sometimes that is even a differing experience of the same event.

Some people purposely raise emotive subjects for shits n giggles.

The main reason I'd say people leave tho, is men feeling invisible and women feeling like slabs of meat who do don't matter.

I've come close a fair few times to deleting due to other people's behaviour, and that's been both. Feeling bullied on the forums (and having my personal life "messed with") and the sheer number of men who think I'm some kind of cock hungry free prostitute

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"I think wecdid go through a bit if a slump on the forums. I think its starting to pick up a bit again. Not quite at peak levels but going in the right direction yea ur probably right maybe I was just worried that it would slip to the point ppl were leaving

People have left due to many reasons including the behaviour and comments of others for years. Some of the exits have been electric.

You'll always have divisive views due to people having differing experiences, and sometimes that is even a differing experience of the same event.

Some people purposely raise emotive subjects for shits n giggles.

The main reason I'd say people leave tho, is men feeling invisible and women feeling like slabs of meat who do don't matter.

I've come close a fair few times to deleting due to other people's behaviour, and that's been both. Feeling bullied on the forums (and having my personal life "messed with") and the sheer number of men who think I'm some kind of cock hungry free prostitute "

good and valid points and fuck the guys that treat u this way

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