FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Women owe you nothing - part 2
Women owe you nothing - part 2
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"Actually that final line should read 'manipulation disguised as niceness'. " I’m so sorry you’ve experienced all that, but I hear you. I think a large majority of women have, and it sucks. I’m sorry it’s brought up some unpleasant memories too, but I hope that if even one person read that and took away some awareness around it, what women go through, then maybe it will help? I don’t think that men always realise how unsafe women can feel on a day to day basis at times. | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”" I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. | |||
"It was certainly fascinating but not necessarily in a good way. It's actually gotten to me several hours later in a way I didn't expect it to when I first noticed it because it's triggered memories of all those times I was unnecessarily pounced upon and made to feel uncomfortable and/or in the wrong and/or accused of being rude/unfriendly/ill-mannered (oh the irony) because some male stranger took it upon himself to intrude into my day. I think because (for example) smiling is seen as a positive thing *some* men get defensive when you don't respond in the way they want you to after *telling* you to 'cheer up' or whatever. Like 'I was only trying to be nice'... often followed by a 'stuck up bitch' or similar. It makes me really angry. I was doing *nothing* wrong FFS. I was just walking along the road, I wasn't doing anything directed at you. But being drawn into an interaction I didn't invite, and which has quickly turned nasty, is also fucking *frightening*. It's all very well thinking of the witty repostes aftef the event in the safety of your own home but even if you could think of them at the time, let's be realistic, not many women are going to feel safe enough to respond to a guy who's already demonstrated that he's quick to get offensively defensive. So instead you scuttle off out of his way as quickly as you can seething with the injustice of having your stroll ruined for no good reason whatsoever. Look, at a personal level, I'll hold my hands up and confess I often struggle with social cues. But I'm certainly not completely ignorant of others' behaviour, and nor am I stupid. And neither are the countless other women who have been subjected to this. I know when a stranger is trying to engage with me out of genuine concern - if I fell over on an icy pavement and a man came over to help me up then so long as he's not using the moment to cop a crafty feel of anything he shouldn't, I'd be very grateful. But equally I can recognise when someone calls out or confronts me because *they* get some sort of benefit or gratification from doing so. I don't know.... exercising a sense of superiority where they feel it's their right to have me comply to what they want to see, or more sinisterly, getting a kick out of putting a woman down. I *know* what they're doing and my stomach lurches when I hear it because I don't know how far they'll take it, whether they'll continue to shout insults as I walk away, whether I run into the nearest shop to avoid them meaning my time's wasted. Don't you (shouty man) dare tell me I've misconstrued a friendly and innocent greeting because I *know*. And never, not once, have I ever had a woman approach me in the same way. I've had women ask if I'm alright but if I've nodded whilst retaining a 'resting bitch face' they've never got the hump because I've not instantly cheered up. I've never felt nervous about walking home after an interaction with a strange woman in case I bump into her again. The whole issue makes me both sad and angry to be honest. There's just no need. And yeah, humans get each other wrong all the time, not least because we're individuals with different standards and personal lines in the sand. But there's a big difference between unintentionally upsetting someone, as in, to use the stranger situation, inadvertently pushing in front of a queue in which case you apologise and go to the back. And conversely, getting all butt hurt and nasty when the person you've upset with a remark that's not borne out of genuine concern is rejected or not complied with. You know what, when a strange bloke makes an inane or offensive comment to me while I'm in a world of my own it comes across as 'how very dare she, that woman, have the temerity not to notice me, I'm going to make sure she does'. It's all dominant, superior shit. I want to underline that I welcomed and was warmed by some of the responses from men on the original thread who were obviously making an effort to be empathetic and who 'got' it. But was also saddened by a few remarks that fed into the 'niceness disguised in manipulation' thing. " This is wonderfully put, I can't really add to that, but I agree with it. | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused." It might be helpful to go back and read over the first thread, I think this was covered a few times there. | |||
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"Actually that final line should read 'manipulation disguised as niceness'. I’m so sorry you’ve experienced all that, but I hear you. I think a large majority of women have, and it sucks. I’m sorry it’s brought up some unpleasant memories too, but I hope that if even one person read that and took away some awareness around it, what women go through, then maybe it will help? I don’t think that men always realise how unsafe women can feel on a day to day basis at times. " Thank you and you know what, I actually think throughout my life I've got off pretty lightly so far as the 'all that' you refer to compared to the experiences of some other women. Though any unwanted, intrusive, entitled attention is too much. The thread didn't really bring up specific memories per se, more a general feeling of anger, frustration and impotence (in the other meaning of the word), and I guess a sadness that this conversation is still having to be had in the 21st century. I agree it's important to do so though in the hope it might prompt greater awareness. I think it's hard for many men, however sincere and lovely they are, to properly appreciate how this kind of scenario can feel. Because they just won't get the same vibes, or the same concern for their safety, even if a man did utter exactly the same words to them (which is unlikely). And even some women who've been fortunate enough never to have experienced it can be unsympathetic too. I thought the posts Polly Chromatic made were very interesting in that respect - the different expectations they encountered depending whether they were presenting as male or female. | |||
"Actually that final line should read 'manipulation disguised as niceness'. I’m so sorry you’ve experienced all that, but I hear you. I think a large majority of women have, and it sucks. I’m sorry it’s brought up some unpleasant memories too, but I hope that if even one person read that and took away some awareness around it, what women go through, then maybe it will help? I don’t think that men always realise how unsafe women can feel on a day to day basis at times. Thank you and you know what, I actually think throughout my life I've got off pretty lightly so far as the 'all that' you refer to compared to the experiences of some other women. Though any unwanted, intrusive, entitled attention is too much. The thread didn't really bring up specific memories per se, more a general feeling of anger, frustration and impotence (in the other meaning of the word), and I guess a sadness that this conversation is still having to be had in the 21st century. I agree it's important to do so though in the hope it might prompt greater awareness. I think it's hard for many men, however sincere and lovely they are, to properly appreciate how this kind of scenario can feel. Because they just won't get the same vibes, or the same concern for their safety, even if a man did utter exactly the same words to them (which is unlikely). And even some women who've been fortunate enough never to have experienced it can be unsympathetic too. I thought the posts Polly Chromatic made were very interesting in that respect - the different expectations they encountered depending whether they were presenting as male or female. " I thought Pollys posts were interesting too, tinder the difference between the two. | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused." Agree completely...a road runs both ways | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. Agree completely...a road runs both ways " This is the second thread, it may be useful to read the first? | |||
"I'll watch you crumble Like a very old wall And I'll see you stranded You took me for a fool I'll have my revenge" Is that song lyrics? | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. Agree completely...a road runs both ways This is the second thread, it may be useful to read the first? " This is what I have a slight issue with the fact that it's the word woman that seems to be offending people and that if it was no one, people wouldn't have a problem and I find that interesting. | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. Agree completely...a road runs both ways This is the second thread, it may be useful to read the first? This is what I have a slight issue with the fact that it's the word woman that seems to be offending people and that if it was no one, people wouldn't have a problem and I find that interesting. " Well I goes we’re not allowed to be offended, and we should put up, shut up and smile sweetly? | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. Agree completely...a road runs both ways This is the second thread, it may be useful to read the first? This is what I have a slight issue with the fact that it's the word woman that seems to be offending people and that if it was no one, people wouldn't have a problem and I find that interesting. Well I goes we’re not allowed to be offended, and we should put up, shut up and smile sweetly? " That is genuinely how it comes across because a woman isn't allowed to be annoyed about something because if she is as seen on the other thread somehow she's jaded and bitter. We are not allowed to complain about anything because then we are a Karen. | |||
"I'll watch you crumble Like a very old wall And I'll see you stranded You took me for a fool I'll have my revenge Is that song lyrics?" And he who laughs last.... | |||
"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day” I’m not sure why the term women is here?? Would it not be none owes you anything? Why would it just be women lol I’m confused. Agree completely...a road runs both ways This is the second thread, it may be useful to read the first? This is what I have a slight issue with the fact that it's the word woman that seems to be offending people and that if it was no one, people wouldn't have a problem and I find that interesting. Well I goes we’re not allowed to be offended, and we should put up, shut up and smile sweetly? That is genuinely how it comes across because a woman isn't allowed to be annoyed about something because if she is as seen on the other thread somehow she's jaded and bitter. We are not allowed to complain about anything because then we are a Karen. " It does seem to be that way, and I was genuinely interested in the debate on the first thread, but it appears misogyny is alive and well sadly  #absolutely notallmen | |||
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"Thank you to everyone that contributed, it was a fascinating discussion. I don’t know whether there will be enough I terst to continue, but I enjoyed reading it... I just read this quote on insta, and I’d be interested in peoples opinion/reactions to this quote “Women owe you nothing. Not a smile, not a glance, not a nod, not attention, not conversation, not even the time of day”" One still owes me a fiver. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario " Agreed - the point of the OP and it's message got lost in specifics and more to the point one specific issue for the most part. As I said on the last thread, the sentiment of the quote I can totally relate to and accept, even if I do think it could have been worded differently but knowing the source and the driver behind it would be interesting for sure. Like so many "inspirational" memes though I suspect that will have been lost in the mists of the internet | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario " Interesting. I feel that the worst case scenarios were barely addressed at all (not least because most of them are against forum rules to discuss). | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario " Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though " That's what I find interesting because on the previous thread several people assumed it was by a hurt, bitter, jaded woman. I suggested on the last thread it could well have been posted by a man. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though That's what I find interesting because on the previous thread several people assumed it was by a hurt, bitter, jaded woman. I suggested on the last thread it could well have been posted by a man. " But #notallmen is a really important cause to highlight at all times. | |||
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"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though That's what I find interesting because on the previous thread several people assumed it was by a hurt, bitter, jaded woman. I suggested on the last thread it could well have been posted by a man. But #notallmen is a really important cause to highlight at all times."  | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though " Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! | |||
"I did read all the other thread too and probably dont have much else to add. It is written quite harshly, and if feels a little sad that human interaction has to be written off quite so bluntly, for all the reasons highlighted, but even so "See I see it differently I don't see as we shouldn't have interactions but surely they should be mutually wanted. I took it as the poster meant thatt it shouldn't be taken for granted that this is owed to you. The last thread in particular was a really interesting discussion though. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though That's what I find interesting because on the previous thread several people assumed it was by a hurt, bitter, jaded woman. I suggested on the last thread it could well have been posted by a man. But #notallmen is a really important cause to highlight at all times." Indeed! | |||
"I did read all the other thread too and probably dont have much else to add. It is written quite harshly, and if feels a little sad that human interaction has to be written off quite so bluntly, for all the reasons highlighted, but even so
See I see it differently I don't see as we shouldn't have interactions but surely they should be mutually wanted.
I took it as the poster meant thatt it shouldn't be taken for granted that this is owed to you.
The last thread in particular was a really interesting discussion though. "Yes. Don't impose yourself on people, act cautiously. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! " Beautiful | |||
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"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! " Reading the other thread, it appears most weren’t saying it was written by a woman, however some women took it as written so and interacted with it and their personal experiences | |||
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"I did read all the other thread too and probably dont have much else to add. It is written quite harshly, and if feels a little sad that human interaction has to be written off quite so bluntly, for all the reasons highlighted, but even so
See I see it differently I don't see as we shouldn't have interactions but surely they should be mutually wanted.
I took it as the poster meant thatt it shouldn't be taken for granted that this is owed to you.
The last thread in particular was a really interesting discussion though. "Absolutely yes for the mutual bit, but it feels sometimes the fight is quite ingrained in us now and behaviour is interpreted in a very black or white way. We all have a little less tolerance or patience with each other and these sayings develop at those harsh edges. Its sad the attitudes are needed. And I do understand why they are. | |||
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"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! Reading the other thread, it appears most weren’t saying it was written by a woman, however some women took it as written so and interacted with it and their personal experiences Just a few quotes from the last post; “ Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women? As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?” “ Sounds quite negative from a place of hurt/pain. Don’t have much time for people who propagate their own hurt and problems onto the rest of us. Maybe the quote should be “handle with care I hurt, but when I’m well I’m awesome” “ I think it’s a feminist trope born out of experience of some pre-conventional behaviour from men.” “ I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man . Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ". How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man Women owe the nurse treating her nothing No smile for the nurse treating her Not a nod for the doctor helping her No conversation to the paramedic picking her up And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand. Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple” " That last one was a beaut.  | |||
"Chill the heck out people, treat people with respect and you receive respect. Its not rocket science ffs!" Yeah if only it worked that way. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! Reading the other thread, it appears most weren’t saying it was written by a woman, however some women took it as written so and interacted with it and their personal experiences " That’s why I said some, because it was only a few, the assumptions that it was a woman were there. Just a few quotes from the last post; “ Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women? As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?” “ Sounds quite negative from a place of hurt/pain. Don’t have much time for people who propagate their own hurt and problems onto the rest of us. Maybe the quote should be “handle with care I hurt, but when I’m well I’m awesome” “ I think it’s a feminist trope born out of experience of some pre-conventional behaviour from men.” | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! Reading the other thread, it appears most weren’t saying it was written by a woman, however some women took it as written so and interacted with it and their personal experiences Just a few quotes from the last post; “ Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women? As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?” “ Sounds quite negative from a place of hurt/pain. Don’t have much time for people who propagate their own hurt and problems onto the rest of us. Maybe the quote should be “handle with care I hurt, but when I’m well I’m awesome” “ I think it’s a feminist trope born out of experience of some pre-conventional behaviour from men.” “ I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man . Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ". How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man Women owe the nurse treating her nothing No smile for the nurse treating her Not a nod for the doctor helping her No conversation to the paramedic picking her up And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand. Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple” That last one was a beaut. "I hit send before I could write what I wanted to about that post but you’ve already quoted it, ha! Yeah the last sentence of that quote was very very harsh. I think everyone should live by it, take the “woman” out, you owe strangers nothing. | |||
"It would have been interesting to know what actually inspired the quote that inspired this thread, which really only took the direction of worst case possible scenario Just went looking for the source and earliest recorded reference I can find to it is two men tweeted it on Twitter back in 2014 - no background to it though Looks like it was originally said by a male @DarryLayo on Twitter almost 7 years ago. That kinda throws the “bitter unhappy woman” description out the window that some were assuming on the last thread! Reading the other thread, it appears most weren’t saying it was written by a woman, however some women took it as written so and interacted with it and their personal experiences Just a few quotes from the last post; “ Of course this is true but it's also very bitter. Is it the intention to cow all men into a state of perpetual fear of ever engaging with women? As a man I have never felt entitled to or owed any of these things, but I have nearly always wanted them. Am I supposed to feel guilty for that?” “ Sounds quite negative from a place of hurt/pain. Don’t have much time for people who propagate their own hurt and problems onto the rest of us. Maybe the quote should be “handle with care I hurt, but when I’m well I’m awesome” “ I think it’s a feminist trope born out of experience of some pre-conventional behaviour from men.” “ I'm amazed at the responses on this thread . Everyone has commented with the inference that that this wee comment must refer to a man . Nobody has a fuckin clue who its aimed at apart from " you ". How about we switch the the thought its aimed at men and put a nurse or a paramedic in , in place of a man Women owe the nurse treating her nothing No smile for the nurse treating her Not a nod for the doctor helping her No conversation to the paramedic picking her up And no time of day for the nurse holding her hand. Actually the woman that lives by this meme sounds like a cunt and I hope she dies . Simple” That last one was a beaut.
I hit send before I could write what I wanted to about that post but you’ve already quoted it, ha!
Yeah the last sentence of that quote was very very harsh. I think everyone should live by it, take the “woman” out, you owe strangers nothing. "Oops sorry, thought it was spot on tho. | |||
" Oops sorry, thought it was spot on tho. " No need to apologise! My fault for finding something else to do, ha. | |||
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