'we' wont have to, in fact some of 'we' have gotten richer whilst as usual the normal joe and joana cop the lions share of the hit..
despite the job numbers released today there is still a huge lack of confidence 'out there'..
couple that with banks who wont lend to 'small business', a lack of a cohesive plan to generate growth, the overiding fear of the collapse of the euro etc etc..
and it does'nt look promising.. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"'we' wont have to...
despite the job numbers released today there is still a huge lack of confidence 'out there'..
and it does'nt look promising.."
Do you think it will be longer than 8 years then?
We (those of us at the not getting richer end) haven't experienced the full effects of the cuts yet. Less than 30% have happened so far... |
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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago
North of The Wall - youll need your vest |
"How many years have we had up to now?
Depends when you start counting from. The banks' collapse was 2008. Serious public sector cuts from 2010/11."
Well if its 2008 then, trying to be positive, we're half way there...
But if we're counting 2010 as the start then no, I dont fancy another 6 years of it  |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"How many years have we had up to now?
Depends when you start counting from. The banks' collapse was 2008. Serious public sector cuts from 2010/11.
Well if its 2008 then, trying to be positive, we're half way there...
But if we're counting 2010 as the start then no, I dont fancy another 6 years of it "
NOOOO... the projection is that it will be 2020 before we are out of austerity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If Britain keeps putting money into all sorts of bailout funds to prop up the failing economies, we will be at it much longer. We should also stop giving millions to countries that don't like us. I know it's only a small portion of the total, but I would rather my tax money be spent in and for Britain and it's people. How the hell can we give money to 3rd world countries when we have so many kids under the poverty line.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How many years have we had up to now?
Depends when you start counting from. The banks' collapse was 2008. Serious public sector cuts from 2010/11.
Well if its 2008 then, trying to be positive, we're half way there...
But if we're counting 2010 as the start then no, I dont fancy another 6 years of it
NOOOO... the projection is that it will be 2020 before we are out of austerity."
Thats the most depressing thing I've heard today |
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"'we' wont have to...
despite the job numbers released today there is still a huge lack of confidence 'out there'..
and it does'nt look promising..
Do you think it will be longer than 8 years then?
We (those of us at the not getting richer end) haven't experienced the full effects of the cuts yet. Less than 30% have happened so far..."
i think it could be about a decade of austerity which after several years people just seem to go 'well its the way it is'..
like it was ever thus..
these things normally go in peaks and troughs, regardless of whomever they seem to cut to the bone and then realise the services that effect 'their core vote' need investment so chuck money at it..
problem is you cant just employ more police officers, engineering lecturers or senior medical professional once you listen to what has been said and decide to act... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much."
Lots of people still spending especially the rich. They never seem to suffer so keeping me busy still. Just work longer if I have to.   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Blimey, that is depressing
I've nothing left really to cut back on... and have a few more debts besides 
I'm trying to sell my house this year for something cheaper to get the mortgage down as it's the only thing left. Even doing that though... if it really is gonna last another 8 years, I can't see me getting a wage rise in that time so will probably end up in the same situation, with nowhere to go.
...Having said that, I just bought 2 new pairs of shoes off the Amazon sale
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"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much."
Austerity does not and never has worked, look at our ND figures at the highest for a generation. The cut, cut, cut just makes more people claiming benefits. You have to invest to get people back into work. You do not need to be the cheapest in the market place but you do need to be the best. There so much talent in the country it just needs someone to say "hey great idea lets make it work". A strong government to say to banks give the money out or be prepared for the fallout.
Look around you what can you see that is British made and there starts the root of all our problems. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much.
Austerity does not and never has worked, look at our ND figures at the highest for a generation. The cut, cut, cut just makes more people claiming benefits. You have to invest to get people back into work. You do not need to be the cheapest in the market place but you do need to be the best. There so much talent in the country it just needs someone to say "hey great idea lets make it work". A strong government to say to banks give the money out or be prepared for the fallout.
Look around you what can you see that is British made and there starts the root of all our problems. "
But does our workforce, particularly the young, have the work ethic? I was so saddened to see the young given opportunities in programme with older people returning to work in retirement throw them away. Just as happened on the programme about the manufacturer taking on China. And has happened when I have taken on young people. I will always give individuals a chance and do not want to write off an entire generation but there is a reason why migrants are in work and our young people aren't.
On your other points, I agree that strong government is needed and cutting so that everything slowly bleeds out is not the way forward.
Spending into debt isn't the answer, rationing isn't the answer. That leaves creativity, enterprise and hard work and those are the areas we seem to struggle with at times. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If Britain keeps putting money into all sorts of bailout funds to prop up the failing economies, we will be at it much longer. We should also stop giving millions to countries that don't like us. I know it's only a small portion of the total, but I would rather my tax money be spent in and for Britain and it's people. How the hell can we give money to 3rd world countries when we have so many kids under the poverty line. "
I don't know you so I don't know whether or not you have travelled extensively, but from your assertion that there are 'countries that don't like us" I would guess that you haven't as I have yet to meet a traveller (that is someone who puts a rucsack on his back and wanders round the world for months even years) who would make an assertion like this.
I have spent much of my life wandering around the world with a rucsack on my back and I have yet to travel in a country whose entire population dislikes or likes the entire population of this country or where I like or dislike the entire population, including this one.
Peoples around the world differ from each other in some respects because of their culture, race, religion or creed, but in others, in my experience, they are very similar because of their humanity. So for examples I have come across many people in all the countries I have visited who are wise enough to realise that there are good and bad people everywhere and that a people cannot be judged by their governments, and also people who aren't . Fortunately however it seems to me that there are more of the former than the latter which gives me hope that one day all human beings will be able to live in harmony with each other.
"If the world is a book then he who has not travelled has read only one page". St Augustine. |
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"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much.
Austerity does not and never has worked, look at our ND figures at the highest for a generation. The cut, cut, cut just makes more people claiming benefits. You have to invest to get people back into work. You do not need to be the cheapest in the market place but you do need to be the best. There so much talent in the country it just needs someone to say "hey great idea lets make it work". A strong government to say to banks give the money out or be prepared for the fallout.
Look around you what can you see that is British made and there starts the root of all our problems.
But does our workforce, particularly the young, have the work ethic? I was so saddened to see the young given opportunities in programme with older people returning to work in retirement throw them away. Just as happened on the programme about the manufacturer taking on China. And has happened when I have taken on young people. I will always give individuals a chance and do not want to write off an entire generation but there is a reason why migrants are in work and our young people aren't.
On your other points, I agree that strong government is needed and cutting so that everything slowly bleeds out is not the way forward.
Spending into debt isn't the answer, rationing isn't the answer. That leaves creativity, enterprise and hard work and those are the areas we seem to struggle with at times."
I do understand your points and that in part is due to the benefit society, most young that do not want to work have seen their parents out of work and the better off on dole system.
In the past I have started businesses and believe me it is anything but easy, wholesalers not extending credit to new company, banks wanting fees and always trying to sell everything they can, insurances and the HM tax to name but a few.
Both my parents had a solid work ethic that was passed onto us and the saying in our house was you don't go to work/school you don't go out. People start on about the forgotten generation and for many that generation was post fourty five.
Surely it is better to make the benefit claimants work for their money than just hand it to them, let them be proud to earn their keep and achieve. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should also stop giving millions to countries that don't like us. I know it's only a small portion of the total, but I would rather my tax money be spent in and for Britain and it's people. How the hell can we give money to 3rd world countries when we have so many kids under the poverty line. "
If we trim back our Aid Programme because 'we can't afford it' we'll soon find our rating downgraded by entities such as Moodys making it much more expensive for the UK to borrow money on the international markets, and that would make any austerity measures in place now look like chicken feed. Anyone for 15% interest rates on mortgages again? |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
If we trim back our Aid Programme because 'we can't afford it' we'll soon find our rating downgraded by entities such as Moodys making it much more expensive for the UK to borrow money on the international markets, and that would make any austerity measures in place now look like chicken feed. Anyone for 15% interest rates on mortgages again?"
Two very good points there.
The current unprecedented long period of low interests and low inflation may be masking the full horror of austerity for many. The credit rating is vital to maintain that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
If we trim back our Aid Programme because 'we can't afford it' we'll soon find our rating downgraded by entities such as Moodys making it much more expensive for the UK to borrow money on the international markets, and that would make any austerity measures in place now look like chicken feed. Anyone for 15% interest rates on mortgages again?
Two very good points there.
The current unprecedented long period of low interests and low inflation may be masking the full horror of austerity for many. The credit rating is vital to maintain that."
Which we have maintained through some very diligent work by the Treasury. Our Triple AAA rating is coveted by a lot of Euro countries who are finding themselves hamstrung by Moodys et al. Ok, so savers get a rough deal as they won't find decent savings rates whilst the general interest rate is so low but from what I've read recently this is starting to be addressed by unlinking interest rates on debt and interest rates on savings. We bank with Yorkshire Bank and we were told recently that the BoE base rate has no effect on the rates they set for their mortgagees as they also need to offer a competitive rate for savers, but, should the base rate rise they'll take it as a sign that their own interest rates should begin an upward curve too.
It is vital we retain our Triple AAA rating in the world markets and our Aid programme is one of many ways of ensuring that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Given for the last 4 years, I have been doing 2 jobs to clear my debts off and have cut back on an awful lot eg buying from car boots and charity shops, looking out for the reduced stuff in supermarkets, it will be no big deal to me as its something I am used to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much."
Its going to be tough for many out there, some will cope others won't but I don't think it will stop people drinking or smoking. A change of government may change things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can we survive 8 years of austerity?
I have a few things left I can cut back on but not much.
Its going to be tough for many out there, some will cope others won't but I don't think it will stop people drinking or smoking. A change of government may change things. "
It won't be any better under a Labour govt than it is under this one. Labour know that this country needs to make cuts but it's proposals mean extending the length of time of those cuts so that people feel like they're not having to cut back so much - but that's a false economy because if you don't feel like it's hurting you get lulled into a false sense of security and then we'll be straight back to where we are now. If Labour wins in 2015 we can look well beyond 2025 before we see any real improvement in growth and that's something else that will also affect our rating.
The coalition have only been in power for two years and that's nowhere near long enough to say if they've got it right or wrong. I say give them until 2015 and then judge them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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not convinced the austerity measures are effective at reducing economic problems.. perhaps it's keeping the debters off the nations back for the time being aside from that though ineffective and ultimately damaging to already over stretched public services / resources!
the uk needs innovation, a competent leader that will raise the morale of the uk people and set the stage for recovery.. not a demoralizing climate of austerity and gloom! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Public sector borrowing up because tax receipts are down and out of work payments have increased. At this rate the government target for borrowing cannot be met."
I thought the jobless figure had come down by 180,000??? |
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its always darkest before the dawn.
no idea what i mean by that, just wanted to by phylisofical.
lookit, ateotd if it has to be, it has to be.
we, as a race, are meant to adapt and get stronger.
if you are unable to do so, then you fall by the wayside (its why homosapien has outlived neanderthal man)
we will change,
we will make ends meet other ways
we will cut and make changes in our lives.
we all need to.
as long as those with keep spending, and dont hoard it, the economy wont shatter. |
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i personally dont think we will be cutting cutting cutting for ever more.
once the debt/repayments are at a reasonable level, the government will start making monies available to get things moving again.
its just initially, massive things had to give so we could move forward.
a bloated public sector will never work, so it needs to be trimmed (even still)
wounds always hurt before they get better. |
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"i personally dont think we will be cutting cutting cutting for ever more.
once the debt/repayments are at a reasonable level, the government will start making monies available to get things moving again.
its just initially, massive things had to give so we could move forward.
a bloated public sector will never work, so it needs to be trimmed (even still)
wounds always hurt before they get better."
What is this bloated public sector you speak of - traditionally the public sector has always been about 20% of the workforce (indeed it was higher under the last tory government) and yet Labour was able to mananage large increases in the Police, Teachers and the Health service all key workers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its about time the elected government did something for those that elected them, the bankers, foreign countries and the EU did not put them in power so its about time to shut doors and put our money where we need it. That is across the board for all British Citizens. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Public sector borrowing up because tax receipts are down and out of work payments have increased. At this rate the government target for borrowing cannot be met.
I thought the jobless figure had come down by 180,000??? "
The unemployment rate fell by 65,000 in the last quarter, the jobless rate fell to 8.1%. 8.1% still jobless as measured by those claiming and registering as economically inactive. The claimant count (claiming JSA) increased by 6,100.
Tax receipts are falling because where people are staying in work and not claiming they may have taken a cut in hours and income. Some have taken redundancy and have not signed on. It is unlike any other period of recession as we have not seen large scale, everything closing redundancies. Some will have set themselves up as sole traders etc.
Lot of under-employed people a steady increase in those claiming JSA and other benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally I have always thought it was a long term thing. You can spend and borrow ever so quickly but paying it back?
But we shouldn't get too panicky about it being long term. Think of it like you are moving a pile of sand. You move it at whatever pace you think is right but you are not moving the same sand every year. While the Austerity period actually started under labour in 2009 we are 2 years into the Coalition plan and we have cleared some 25% since then apparently. So do the maths! And the lower the borrowing the less the interest the quicker the reduction.
I love the way some people say 'invest in jobs'. Governments can't and shouldn't do that unless you are China or a Labour party intent on overstaffing the public sector for political reasons. Governments in reality can only create the environment for the private sector to create the actual real and long term jobs. And this does seem to be happening with 800,000 new jobs in 2+ years and more than are being lost in the public sector so there is the vital rebalancing already going on as well.
In May '97 Blair inherited a falling unemployment figure of 2 million. In May 2010 Brown handed over a climbing figure of 2.48 million. It is now falling again albeit at 2.65 million. So much for 'investing in jobs'. |
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"Personally I have always thought it was a long term thing. You can spend and borrow ever so quickly but paying it back?
But we shouldn't get too panicky about it being long term. Think of it like you are moving a pile of sand. You move it at whatever pace you think is right but you are not moving the same sand every year. While the Austerity period actually started under labour in 2009 we are 2 years into the Coalition plan and we have cleared some 25% since then apparently. So do the maths! And the lower the borrowing the less the interest the quicker the reduction.
I love the way some people say 'invest in jobs'. Governments can't and shouldn't do that unless you are China or a Labour party intent on overstaffing the public sector for political reasons. Governments in reality can only create the environment for the private sector to create the actual real and long term jobs. And this does seem to be happening with 800,000 new jobs in 2+ years and more than are being lost in the public sector so there is the vital rebalancing already going on as well.
In May '97 Blair inherited a falling unemployment figure of 2 million. In May 2010 Brown handed over a climbing figure of 2.48 million. It is now falling again albeit at 2.65 million. So much for 'investing in jobs'."
What you forgot to mention was under the last tory government unemployment was at 2.5 - 3 million for most of it's last term whereas for most of labours term in office unemployment was less than 1 million - Public sector employment was higher under the last tory government as a percentage of the workforce and labour employed more doctors nurse police and teacher hardly trying to increase the public sector for political reasons |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
What you forgot to mention was under the last tory government unemployment was at 2.5 - 3 million for most of it's last term whereas for most of labours term in office unemployment was less than 1 million"
Well figures from the BBC published yesterday show that it was at 3million once (Jan '93) and the Major Governemt reduced it in a straight line to 2 million when they left office. Labour never managed to reduce it lower than 1.5 million and from Jan '06 it went inexorably up to the 2.48 million I quoted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18881881
"Public sector employment was higher under the last tory government as a percentage of the workforce and labour employed more doctors nurse police and teacher hardly trying to increase the public sector for political reasons"
Bit selective in your professions but even those aren't exactly big Conservative supporters! I was refering to the 'creation' of large public agencies in Labour leaning places. Sadly it created places like Wales that are now over reliant on public sector funding. Of which there is precious little.
Its a truism that public sectors spend what the private sectors earn. It was always thus and its fine until the balance goes wrong and I think it is that which we got wrong not the fact we created a larger public sector.
The British Economy has to wean itself of the Bankers and the City and a large public sector and get back to making and exporting things. And again figures yesterday showed that is happening..albeit too slowly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
once the debt/repayments are at a reasonable level, the government will start making monies available to get things moving again.
"
That will be in the budget in May 2014. Just before the election trail for 2015 starts in earnest.  |
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