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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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As you lot seem too be from all walks of life I was wondering if one of you could give me a bit of advice.
Basically I'm self employed and work with one other person, he had a falling out with a customer while I wasn't on the job which has resulted in us getting kicked off the job, and them refusing too pay money owed too me for work I have done, it is only £500. Can I do anything too recover this money that won't cost me any? Do I have a leg too stand on as it was a verbal agreement and nothing is in writhing?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How closely do you work with the person involved in the falling out ?
Irregardless of being able to reclaim anything, I think I would be questioning whether he is of the calibre I would wish to be professionally associated with !
Depending on what the job was, whether works have been carried out etc will depend on how successful any claim is.
If nothing else, try lodging a complaint with the small claims court.
Before that however, have you tried personally to reconcile with the customer ?
They may well be open to discussion
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even without a contract believe you are entitled to take back anything you have fitted or replaced for which the customer has not paid you..
if you have receipts etc they are still your property i wiould think
as for no costs in recovering it, not sure but unlikely..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nope, once the goods are installed, you lose the right to ownership even if you haven't paid for it. If the goods are on the property and not yet fixed, you can claim ownership. A verbal agreement is as binding as a written contract, especially if you can prove you have already carried out the work. Small claims court will set you back around £30-40 to lodge a claim. Be well prepared when you do get to court, have all the invoices with you, make sure you write down what was said by whom and when from the beginning of negotiations to the end where you were asked to leave. the better prepared you are the more chance you have of winning the case. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How closely do you work with the person involved in the falling out ?
Irregardless of being able to reclaim anything, I think I would be questioning whether he is of the calibre I would wish to be professionally associated with !
Depending on what the job was, whether works have been carried out etc will depend on how successful any claim is.
If nothing else, try lodging a complaint with the small claims court.
Before that however, have you tried personally to reconcile with the customer ?
They may well be open to discussion
"
The person I work with is my brother but after this our working relationship is over, there is only so long you can carry someone. Family or not.
I don't have the contact details for them as I wasn't overly involved in this job. As they are old I don't want too turn up on the doorstep as this could seem intimidating. I was thinking of writing a letter, but I wanted it too be formal and maybe quote a big of legal stuff.
The work isn't complete as I was only there 5 days before this happen, I'm owed for my time on the job.
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"Nope, once the goods are installed, you lose the right to ownership even if you haven't paid for it. If the goods are on the property and not yet fixed, you can claim ownership. A verbal agreement is as binding as a written contract, especially if you can prove you have already carried out the work. Small claims court will set you back around £30-40 to lodge a claim. Be well prepared when you do get to court, have all the invoices with you, make sure you write down what was said by whom and when from the beginning of negotiations to the end where you were asked to leave. the better prepared you are the more chance you have of winning the case."
ta for clarifying the goods thing.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How closely do you work with the person involved in the falling out ?
Irregardless of being able to reclaim anything, I think I would be questioning whether he is of the calibre I would wish to be professionally associated with !
Depending on what the job was, whether works have been carried out etc will depend on how successful any claim is.
If nothing else, try lodging a complaint with the small claims court.
Before that however, have you tried personally to reconcile with the customer ?
They may well be open to discussion
The person I work with is my brother but after this our working relationship is over, there is only so long you can carry someone. Family or not.
I don't have the contact details for them as I wasn't overly involved in this job. As they are old I don't want too turn up on the doorstep as this could seem intimidating. I was thinking of writing a letter, but I wanted it too be formal and maybe quote a big of legal stuff.
The work isn't complete as I was only there 5 days before this happen, I'm owed for my time on the job.
"
I'm a bit lost now
You weren't overly involved but want 5 days pay for the work you carried out ?
You don't know where they live but have the address to send a letter ?
As for your brother, if you both have key skills, I would continue to use them - seperately from each other ! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How closely do you work with the person involved in the falling out ?
Irregardless of being able to reclaim anything, I think I would be questioning whether he is of the calibre I would wish to be professionally associated with !
Depending on what the job was, whether works have been carried out etc will depend on how successful any claim is.
If nothing else, try lodging a complaint with the small claims court.
Before that however, have you tried personally to reconcile with the customer ?
They may well be open to discussion
The person I work with is my brother but after this our working relationship is over, there is only so long you can carry someone. Family or not.
I don't have the contact details for them as I wasn't overly involved in this job. As they are old I don't want too turn up on the doorstep as this could seem intimidating. I was thinking of writing a letter, but I wanted it too be formal and maybe quote a big of legal stuff.
The work isn't complete as I was only there 5 days before this happen, I'm owed for my time on the job.
I'm a bit lost now
You weren't overly involved but want 5 days pay for the work you carried out ?
You don't know where they live but have the address to send a letter ?
As for your brother, if you both have key skills, I would continue to use them - seperately from each other !"
Sorry I'll clarify it.
I'm a a painter and and carpenter. Like I said self employed. We have our own customers and this was one of his. I know where they live because I've worked there but don't have phone numbers. I've been doing my own jobs but went too this one too help out and billed the customer directly, which wasn't a problem for a previous week I'd done there and was paid for without a problem. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry I'll clarify it.
I'm a a painter and and carpenter. Like I said self employed. We have our own customers and this was one of his. I know where they live because I've worked there but don't have phone numbers. I've been doing my own jobs but went too this one too help out and billed the customer directly, which wasn't a problem for a previous week I'd done there and was paid for without a problem. "
If you are known to them and they have had no previous problems with YOU, I would turn up and try to rectify the problem amicably.
There is generally a compromise to be reached. Take your brother out of the equation.
OK, so the couple may not appreciate your turning up if you are on the defensive and have an attitude.
However, if you turn up with an open mind and a plan of action that you feel would suit both you and them then you are on firmer ground.
It may be awkward for you. It will be undoubtedly awkward for them.
For them not to pay, they evidently feel wronged in some way.
An attempt to smooth over the cracks (no pun intended) would be appreciated by most over an anonymous letter or a small claim dropping thru their letter box.
If you do visit and cannot reach a compromise / resolution, then calmly but firmly tell them you have no other option than to pursue a claim through the courts.
This should however be your parting shot, if, and only if, you cannot reach a solution. It should not be part of your opening gambit. |
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"Sorry I'll clarify it.
I'm a a painter and and carpenter. Like I said self employed. We have our own customers and this was one of his. I know where they live because I've worked there but don't have phone numbers. I've been doing my own jobs but went too this one too help out and billed the customer directly, which wasn't a problem for a previous week I'd done there and was paid for without a problem.
If you are known to them and they have had no previous problems with YOU, I would turn up and try to rectify the problem amicably.
There is generally a compromise to be reached. Take your brother out of the equation.
OK, so the couple may not appreciate your turning up if you are on the defensive and have an attitude.
However, if you turn up with an open mind and a plan of action that you feel would suit both you and them then you are on firmer ground.
It may be awkward for you. It will be undoubtedly awkward for them.
For them not to pay, they evidently feel wronged in some way.
An attempt to smooth over the cracks (no pun intended) would be appreciated by most over an anonymous letter or a small claim dropping thru their letter box.
If you do visit and cannot reach a compromise / resolution, then calmly but firmly tell them you have no other option than to pursue a claim through the courts.
This should however be your parting shot, if, and only if, you cannot reach a solution. It should not be part of your opening gambit."
Wise words from one so young  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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good advise all round i think.
its difficult without knowing the full facts but i would take the softly softly approach suggested and see the customer face to face to try and sort it out.
regardless of whether he fell out with them, they are stil obliged to pay for work done as agreed.
They should in theory pay your brother and he should then pay you what you are due.
verbal or otherwise, they still enter into a contract and if the work has been done then they should pay. if they are unhappy with the work or it has not been carried out as agreed then they should pay and then pursue a claim for refund.
what did they fall out over anyway?? was it do with the work or something else? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Without a purchase order or quote and an issued invoice you don't realy have much of a leg to stand on.......I would agree to use the reconciliation route to agree if there is anyway to get back on the job. If you can't agree to finish the works, advise the client of a settlement figure (the £500 you mentioned) and issue an invoice for that sum (plus VAT if you are registered).
Once you have an oficial payable balance and you have evidence of this debt, you can then make a claim via the Civil Court (the Magistrates Court in this case).
Go to Directgov and search for collecting money (it offers a lot of adise on this subject). There is a link to HMCS (HM Court Service) where you can do the MCOL (Money Claim On-Line) There is a cost to taking legal action (it would be around £25 for a debt of £500 which you pay up front but can add to the claimable sum. You can also add interest to the debt (from the point of debt, ie the date when you issued the invoice, to the date of the claim).
Once issued the client has 28 days to pay. If the debt is not paid IN FULL a magistrate judges the case and issues a Liability Order (basicaly an order to pay). There are a few options open to you then......
If you know your clients bank account details you can apply for a Sequestration Order to take the money directly fromt he clients bank account. There is a cost for this but, again, you are entitled to add 'reasonable' charges to the debt once a liability order is granted.
Alternatively you can contact a Debt Recovery firm and employ a bailiff to 'Enforce' the Liability Order. Again, there is a cost to this, but you will get the cost back, from the Bailiffs.......
There are a few other actions which can be taken, but they don't realy apply to this case.
My seggestion is to realy pursue the reconciliation route, but forewarned is forearmed. I usualy do this sort of thing for an emplyer (or work as a bailiff) so, for a modest fee I am happy to advise and manage your claim, but for this sort of sum, it's realy easy and simple to collect it yourself. Mail me your number if you want a chat for more in depth advice........... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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as a buisness man i would suggest that the only claim you have is against your brother as he seems to be the responsable person whom you offered to assist at a rate agreed prior to you working together, if the agreement was that he would pay you on complition then you dont have a leg to stand on as the job is incomplete, regardless to it being written or verbal.
suggest you claim against your brother. not the customer which was whom you were working for at the time, not the customer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"as a buisness man i would suggest that the only claim you have is against your brother as he seems to be the responsable person whom you offered to assist at a rate agreed prior to you working together, if the agreement was that he would pay you on complition then you dont have a leg to stand on as the job is incomplete, regardless to it being written or verbal.
suggest you claim against your brother. not the customer which was whom you were working for at the time, not the customer."
Fromt the OP, it seems to me that the Client (the one for whom the work was being done) is refusing to pay the OP (OP works with rather than for the one who fell out with the Client) so the OP would claim against the Client rather than the Partner........But I do agree, that point could do with a little clearing up....... |
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"as a buisness man i would suggest that the only claim you have is against your brother as he seems to be the responsable person whom you offered to assist at a rate agreed prior to you working together, if the agreement was that he would pay you on complition then you dont have a leg to stand on as the job is incomplete, regardless to it being written or verbal.
suggest you claim against your brother. not the customer which was whom you were working for at the time, not the customer."
My tupenneth for what it's worth.
1) The best solution to this would be to resolve it amicably, even if that means you have to correct any work your brother has done wrong, on condition that the couple agree to pay you directly. I'd advise that you take someone with you when you knock on the couples door, not your brother obviously, and suggest it's a female as that will soften the approach, but will also provide you with a witness to anything that is said, or alledged at a later date.
2) I also think your claim is against your brother, not the couple. The work was awarded by the couple to your brother, who then effectively subcontracted some work to you. The couple paid you directly because that is what they were asked to do, but I don't think if you persued this all the way to court that the court would agree that the couple owe you anything personally.
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By *dinMan
over a year ago
Nr Biggleswade |
I know some big blokes from darn sarth who will blag their gaff for ya and scare the readys owed outta them...only charge a Monkey once big reg shoves his sawn off in their faces they will soon coff up....  |
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). It's pretty clear how too go about it. 