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The right to defend your home.
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
Continue here, it was interesting seeing the replyes.
I heard something interesting on the news and that is how in hungary you can use whatever means to defend your home even use a gun, whilst here there are so much red tape you cant really do anything, have they got it right? I would say yes they have |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let's mix it up. I heard about the harden sex offender that tied two men he caught breaking into his home and bummed them for days...
Let's legalise... this... no leathal force... if you're caught breaking and entering you can be bummed. Strapon for the ladies |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Let's mix it up. I heard about the harden sex offender that tied two men he caught breaking into his home and bummed them for days...
Let's legalise... this... no leathal force... if you're caught breaking and entering you can be bummed. Strapon for the ladies"
That sounds like something Quentin Tarantino would adapt into a screenplay. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As far as I am aware (could be totally wrong) but if you are in an house with stairs and you are in bed while someone breaks into your house, advice is to stay upstairs. If you "go" for them, you may end up on the wrong side of the law. If they try to come up stairs, that is when "reasonable" force can be used. On another point though, if someone breaks into your house, that in most cases would be affray, and given that you are fearful for you and your families safety, think you should be able to use non Lethal force to either scare them off or apprehend the person. As others have said, it's a lot easier to say what you'd do in a given situation, but waking up all bleary eyed and flight or fight kicks in is a total different story. |
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By *ankie303Woman
over a year ago
Weirdsville South Coast Dorset |
I always felt that farmer who shot at the boys breaking in to his home then sent to prison was unfairly treated!!!
I once seen an arm come through my letterbox, feeling for the lock so I grabbed it and ended up breaking it as the dirty smackhead tried to pull it back out. I was arrested at first then realised without charge as he not only admitted straight up to attempted burglary, but also that he had hit my neighbours homes and had an 8inch knife in his pocket, that luckily he couldn't reach due to me holding him against the door until the police finally arrived.
In my job I can use reasonable force when dealing with the public, I think breaking his arm was very reasonable  |
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"As far as I am aware (could be totally wrong) but if you are in an house with stairs and you are in bed while someone breaks into your house, advice is to stay upstairs. If you "go" for them, you may end up on the wrong side of the law. If they try to come up stairs, that is when "reasonable" force can be used. On another point though, if someone breaks into your house, that in most cases would be affray, and given that you are fearful for you and your families safety, think you should be able to use non Lethal force to either scare them off or apprehend the person. As others have said, it's a lot easier to say what you'd do in a given situation, but waking up all bleary eyed and flight or fight kicks in is a total different story. "
I'll be candid
I genuinely do not think its about sides of law
I think it's about saftey
Ignoring the hate mail distortions most time the law sides with a victim
I genuinely think the advice for
Avoid conflict is not to avoid prosecution rather concealed good advice to prevent the testosterone fueled public thinking they are Charles Bronson entering a fight and ending up dead |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Good debate folks.... This and the other thread... Pat on the back for playing nicely"
I'm not playing nice. I'm advocating bumming them! The criminals that is... although I'm not against bumming other forum members... In fact I don't mind some of them smashing my back doors in. (That's a breaking and entertaining pun if you missed it) |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"I always felt that farmer who shot at the boys breaking in to his home then sent to prison was unfairly treated!!!
I once seen an arm come through my letterbox, feeling for the lock so I grabbed it and ended up breaking it as the dirty smackhead tried to pull it back out. I was arrested at first then realised without charge as he not only admitted straight up to attempted burglary, but also that he had hit my neighbours homes and had an 8inch knife in his pocket, that luckily he couldn't reach due to me holding him against the door until the police finally arrived.
In my job I can use reasonable force when dealing with the public, I think breaking his arm was very reasonable "
Tony Martin
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-49355814
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I am aware (could be totally wrong) but if you are in an house with stairs and you are in bed while someone breaks into your house, advice is to stay upstairs. If you "go" for them, you may end up on the wrong side of the law. If they try to come up stairs, that is when "reasonable" force can be used. On another point though, if someone breaks into your house, that in most cases would be affray, and given that you are fearful for you and your families safety, think you should be able to use non Lethal force to either scare them off or apprehend the person. As others have said, it's a lot easier to say what you'd do in a given situation, but waking up all bleary eyed and flight or fight kicks in is a total different story.
I'll be candid
I genuinely do not think its about sides of law
I think it's about saftey
Ignoring the hate mail distortions most time the law sides with a victim
I genuinely think the advice for
Avoid conflict is not to avoid prosecution rather concealed good advice to prevent the testosterone fueled public thinking they are Charles Bronson entering a fight and ending up dead "
I understand what you are saying, and no it's not about being on the good or bad side of the law, I was just pointing out that in the situation I was giving, that you would most likely be in trouble with the law in that case. I do understand that the advice given is for safety reasons, but as I said also, if someone genuinely feared for their safety of family and themselves, I think use of reasonable force is okay. But then what is classed as reasonable? Especially when in a heightened state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I always felt that farmer who shot at the boys breaking in to his home then sent to prison was unfairly treated!!!
I once seen an arm come through my letterbox, feeling for the lock so I grabbed it and ended up breaking it as the dirty smackhead tried to pull it back out. I was arrested at first then realised without charge as he not only admitted straight up to attempted burglary, but also that he had hit my neighbours homes and had an 8inch knife in his pocket, that luckily he couldn't reach due to me holding him against the door until the police finally arrived.
In my job I can use reasonable force when dealing with the public, I think breaking his arm was very reasonable "
Well done ! I have an air rifle at hand,that accidently could go off  |
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"Continue here, it was interesting seeing the replyes.
I heard something interesting on the news and that is how in hungary you can use whatever means to defend your home even use a gun, whilst here there are so much red tape you cant really do anything, have they got it right? I would say yes they have "
UK law allows you to use a firearm to protect yourself at home, despite what you may have read in the Daily Express. If they try and run away and you shoot them in the back as they try and get out of the window, then you'll end up in prison and rightly so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Continue here, it was interesting seeing the replyes.
I heard something interesting on the news and that is how in hungary you can use whatever means to defend your home even use a gun, whilst here there are so much red tape you cant really do anything, have they got it right? I would say yes they have
UK law allows you to use a firearm to protect yourself at home, despite what you may have read in the Daily Express. If they try and run away and you shoot them in the back as they try and get out of the window, then you'll end up in prison and rightly so."
A mate has a paintball gun for that use. It is well over the limit, solid training rounds in the hopper. It will do some damage if it hits you in the right places, it will take their eyes out if it hits them there. |
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"I always felt that farmer who shot at the boys breaking in to his home then sent to prison was unfairly treated!!!
I once seen an arm come through my letterbox, feeling for the lock so I grabbed it and ended up breaking it as the dirty smackhead tried to pull it back out. I was arrested at first then realised without charge as he not only admitted straight up to attempted burglary, but also that he had hit my neighbours homes and had an 8inch knife in his pocket, that luckily he couldn't reach due to me holding him against the door until the police finally arrived.
In my job I can use reasonable force when dealing with the public, I think breaking his arm was very reasonable "
That farmer shot him in the back with an illegally owned gun as the kids was running away.
Someone running away from you is not a danger to your life, so at that point it is no longer self defence.
Now if he'd have hit him as the kids was going up stairs towards him, I might think differently. |
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" Someone running away from you is not a danger to your life, so at that point it is no longer self defence.
Now if he'd have hit him as the kids was going up stairs towards him, I might think differently."
As most probably would have the jury. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
This kid was 16, living in Newark, Notts and had traveled all the way to Norfolk.
He wasn't all sweetness and light as...
Fred Barras had 29 previous convictions and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being d*unk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture.
His mum (Ellen Barras) she has only got what she gets from her benefit and if Fred was still here he would be in a job now and bringing more money into the house," she said. "He would not have been a thief for ever."
Maybe, maybe not. What were the chances of his career in crime progressing to regular stints at Her Majesty's? |
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"This kid was 16, living in Newark, Notts and had traveled all the way to Norfolk.
He wasn't all sweetness and light as...
Fred Barras had 29 previous convictions and had been sentenced to two months in a young offenders' institution for assaulting a policeman, theft and being d*unk and disorderly. On the night he was killed, the teenager had just been released on bail after being accused of stealing garden furniture.
His mum (Ellen Barras) she has only got what she gets from her benefit and if Fred was still here he would be in a job now and bringing more money into the house," she said. "He would not have been a thief for ever."
Maybe, maybe not. What were the chances of his career in crime progressing to regular stints at Her Majesty's?"
Did the guy know all this before he killed him? No.
Could it have been a kid who had recently been made homeless and was robbing for food to survive. Yes.
That's why his previous doesn't have any bearing on that case.
There was absolutely no way of the guy knowing the background of the kid, but he did know he was running away and still decided to shoot him in the back with a shotgun.
He was lucky to get the charge dropped to manslaughter tbh. |
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Couple of pointers from the last thread.
If hand guns were easier to obtain, a burglar entering your house would not be in possession of the gun lawfully as previously mentioned.
In addition to that, if the person had a criminal record, they wouldn't get a licence in the first place.
Secondly, if you own a baseball bat, you don't need a ball in your house. That defence is only required in a public place, like walking to the park or driving in your car.
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"As far as I am aware (could be totally wrong) but if you are in an house with stairs and you are in bed while someone breaks into your house, advice is to stay upstairs. If you "go" for them, you may end up on the wrong side of the law. If they try to come up stairs, that is when "reasonable" force can be used. On another point though, if someone breaks into your house, that in most cases would be affray, and given that you are fearful for you and your families safety, think you should be able to use non Lethal force to either scare them off or apprehend the person. As others have said, it's a lot easier to say what you'd do in a given situation, but waking up all bleary eyed and flight or fight kicks in is a total different story. "
The ability to investigate something out of the ordinary will not prejudice your position. Your right to defend, especially when attacked first, will need to measured and reasonable.
At the time of attack, thats a difficult call to pull off especially if you dont want to be assaulted first to guage the degree of seriousness of the intruders. I would... if I heard unexpected noise, call the police then turn on lights and call neighbours to come over and make as much noise as I can. But then, I am six foot 1 with a 19 inch collar and been a competition dan grade martials arts guy since I was a kiddy so maybe I wount follow my own advice. Getting onto the police is the first thing you should do if possible.
If you can, barricade your door but to be frank, most internal doors are hollow and the hinges and locks are low grade. Makev load of noise and shout to neighbours out of the window.
En suites may have stuff you can use as a defence BUT they should not injure or harm an attacker. Perfume or hair spray might be handy. Scratching gathers evidence. Grab hair... make like a Honey badger and go for the genitals etc.
Its a difficult call to make. You dont necessarily know the motives or the degree that an intruder will go to. Also fright naturally affects your ability to rationalise and most go into fight or flight mode and over-rides common sense. Looking back on an event and then making the right decision is what a court does but it aint a precise science is it. |
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A lot of Armchair Law Experts on here.
Here is my pennies worth and you can come to your own informed decision
If a Burglar/Thief/Criminal breaks into your property while you are in. Irrespective if you are asleep in bed or watching the TV in a Living room. Not once have I ever heard that you are to barricade yourself in your room and not challenge any Intruder. Why would you do that??
Every home owner and Family are covered in UK Law to use force that is proportionate, Reasonable and Justifiable. This can only be decided by you and the unique circumstances at that time.
E.G are you alone? Are the children in? Are you female? Are the intruders carrying weapons etc.
And to Finish!
1 No female has ever been convicted of murder, killing a Burglar whilst Home alone.
2 there are several cases of home owners tackling Burglars and killing them defending their property in recent years. No prosecutions followed.
3 The above all happened after a change in UK Law after the Tony Martin Conviction (later quashed, but that’s another story)
4 you still cannot shoot burglars in the back, when outside your property running away, no matter how tempting. Just saying!! |
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"A lot of Armchair Law Experts on here.
Here is my pennies worth and you can come to your own informed decision
If a Burglar/Thief/Criminal breaks into your property while you are in. Irrespective if you are asleep in bed or watching the TV in a Living room. Not once have I ever heard that you are to barricade yourself in your room and not challenge any Intruder. Why would you do that??
Every home owner and Family are covered in UK Law to use force that is proportionate, Reasonable and Justifiable. This can only be decided by you and the unique circumstances at that time.
E.G are you alone? Are the children in? Are you female? Are the intruders carrying weapons etc.
And to Finish!
1 No female has ever been convicted of murder, killing a Burglar whilst Home alone.
2 there are several cases of home owners tackling Burglars and killing them defending their property in recent years. No prosecutions followed.
3 The above all happened after a change in UK Law after the Tony Martin Conviction (later quashed, but that’s another story)
4 you still cannot shoot burglars in the back, when outside your property running away, no matter how tempting. Just saying!!"
Any statistics on how many who chose to confront their attackers have been killed or injured?
If I were in a house with kids
And was fortunate enough to have early warning, the kids and I would block ourselves in one room until help arrived
I go for the best approach to nigh on guarantee my and the kids safety
ANYTHING else is a gamble and I'd say a VAIN hope I'm more violent than most likely an experienced nigh on feral criminal human |
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Your inherent right to self defence is protected by law. But the right to use and hold offensive weapons is very restricted (which on the ballance of things is for the best). Anyone is perfectly legally allowed to protect themselves including lethal force if they believe thier life is in danger and this is the only way to protect themselves from that threat. So you always have to bear in mind how you will justify that use of force in court. For example if you'd scared an intruder away with your shot gun it may be hard to justify shooting them as their running for their life away down the farm track. However say an intruder threatened you with a weapon and you honestly believe they were about to attack you or someone else you would be ok to strike or shoot as long as you could reasonably justify the type and level of force used. By that I mean say you hit an intruder to the floor unc*nscious and it was clear they were not armed you may come unstuck in court if you then went, got an axe from the shed and cut their off with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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my view is one a lot of people do not like.
it takes a lot of hours and hard work to get things in life and no one has the right to break in or steal from you.
if you catch someone in your home who shouldnt be there then its open season and you should shoot them so many times you can read a newspaper through them
same with stopping a crime in progress. if you have a concealed gun carry permit then you should defend others and kill those committing the crime.
let there be no misunderstanding. if you commit violent crimes and put good citizens in fear then you deserve whats coming to you.
sheriff grady judd of polk county makes it very clear to violent criminals what will happen to them and that should be the message from all law enforcement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Right to self defence of yourself, or another under:
Common Law
S.3 Criminal Law act
Police And Criminal Evidence act
Article 2, Human Rights Act(yes, really)
Reasonable force proportionate actions are the common thread throughout, but yes you can.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not sure if the laws have changed but a few years back I had a police officer tell me as long as you can genuinely explain why you used that method to defend your home you'll get away with it. Like if your a keen golf player and you keepnyour expensive clubs in your bed room. Its the 1st thing you saw when you was woken early hours in the morning |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure if the laws have changed but a few years back I had a police officer tell me as long as you can genuinely explain why you used that method to defend your home you'll get away with it. Like if your a keen golf player and you keepnyour expensive clubs in your bed room. Its the 1st thing you saw when you was woken early hours in the morning "
It's illegal to have any article specifically intended to use for self defence. It makes it an offensive weapon in law. However, should anything come to hand spontaneously whilst defending yourself, you can use it as long as the level of force is reasonable in the circumstances. |
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"Right to self defence of yourself, or another under:
Common Law
S.3 Criminal Law act
Police And Criminal Evidence act
Article 2, Human Rights Act(yes, really)
Reasonable force proportionate actions are the common thread throughout, but yes you can.."
Police and Criminal evidence act, only applies to police officers, I believe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure if the laws have changed but a few years back I had a police officer tell me as long as you can genuinely explain why you used that method to defend your home you'll get away with it. Like if your a keen golf player and you keepnyour expensive clubs in your bed room. Its the 1st thing you saw when you was woken early hours in the morning
It's illegal to have any article specifically intended to use for self defence. It makes it an offensive weapon in law. However, should anything come to hand spontaneously whilst defending yourself, you can use it as long as the level of force is reasonable in the circumstances."
Thats the basis of what I was saying |
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"my view is one a lot of people do not like.
it takes a lot of hours and hard work to get things in life and no one has the right to break in or steal from you.
if you catch someone in your home who shouldnt be there then its open season and you should shoot them so many times you can read a newspaper through them
same with stopping a crime in progress. if you have a concealed gun carry permit then you should defend others and kill those committing the crime.
let there be no misunderstanding. if you commit violent crimes and put good citizens in fear then you deserve whats coming to you.
sheriff grady judd of polk county makes it very clear to violent criminals what will happen to them and that should be the message from all law enforcement."
Fortunately, you don't make the law and thus if you decide to start executing burglars then you'll end up in the clink. |
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"my view is one a lot of people do not like.
it takes a lot of hours and hard work to get things in life and no one has the right to break in or steal from you.
if you catch someone in your home who shouldnt be there then its open season and you should shoot them so many times you can read a newspaper through them
same with stopping a crime in progress. if you have a concealed gun carry permit then you should defend others and kill those committing the crime.
let there be no misunderstanding. if you commit violent crimes and put good citizens in fear then you deserve whats coming to you.
sheriff grady judd of polk county makes it very clear to violent criminals what will happen to them and that should be the message from all law enforcement.
Fortunately, you don't make the law and thus if you decide to start executing burglars then you'll end up in the clink. "
Yep we ain't America thank god  |
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