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The N.H.S.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Short of money. Waiting lists far to long.

Should people who suffer from self-inflicted problems have to pay for there treatment?

Would the private health insurance premiums help them towards a healthy life style?

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

What is a self-inflicted problem?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

In 1948 beverage set up the health service to eradication the 5 evils, squalour, ignorence, idleness, disease and want. NOONW could fortell how it would escalate. People complain about waiting lists, people complain about all sorts to do with the health service, what they forget is its free in this country.

If they dont like it go live in a country where you have to pay for your own health care.

Many many operations today save lives, from quadruple bypass's to ingrowing two nails you can have them done.

Also im always shocked when people remember life before the health service start moaning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Uh oh...

(sits back and waits for the shit to hit the fan!)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hello! National insurance premiums! Also what do you class as self inflicted? ... Post natal depression? Because most of the time the pregnancy is planned, so therefore self inflicted

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Run it as a National Health Service, not as a business top heavy with pen pushers and paper shufflers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Run it as a National Health Service, not as a business top heavy with pen pushers and paper shufflers. "

Easier said than done!!!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

I could easily make cut backs.

Stop putting stupid plants around

Stop giving gigantic over sized buffets to people in meetings.

Dont allow one department to paint the same wall three times in a year as if they dont use there budget they wont get it next year.

There are plenty of ways to make cutbacks with out affecting any patients

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

Jeez Roy you don't look well

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Beveridge did envision a health service but we are moving more and more towards a National Sickness Service.

We have huge expectations of the service and more of us expect it to work in a personalised way. That has added to the costs.

I have had very good experiences and very bad but I try and see where there is systemic failure that can be addressed.

Funding for prevention work is being cut and I believe that will lead to a greater call on the Sickness Service.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I really do think they should go back to matrons running wards and getting rid of so many privatized companies running the NHS.

But to answer the OP.

It's not perfect but it's free and still a leading example to many countries, why else would they send so many students here to be trained in Britain?

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Short of money. Waiting lists far to long.

Should people who suffer from self-inflicted problems have to pay for there treatment?

Would the private health insurance premiums help them towards a healthy life style?

yep people who suffer from self inflicted problems,should be made to pay.

i mean how much money would be saved if all those ex sportsmen and women,were made pay,for all those joint replacement operations,they need when they get older,grrrrrrrrrrrr selfish bissums.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Short of money..... No way....

£107 billion a year

4th biggest employer in the world, 1.7m.... (who knows th other 3 ?)

We get the nhs we deserve, we don't value effective management, too much localism, politics drives decisions not common sense....

To get a better nhs employ better managers and let them manage it properly and ban local and national politicians from decisions, we have to get a bigger bang for our buck.

Oh and having been around the world, it is fantastic, and a lot better than the alternative...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think one of the biggest problems with the NHS is that people tend to either not like being told what to do or they ignore the advice that is given.

Prevention is better than cure, but since we don't tend to take note of the advice to stop drinking so much, stop smoking, get more exercize and stop eating fatty foods the comment that the health service has become a sickness service is quite correct.

What must also be remembered is that life spans have extended by about 15 to 20 years since the '40s and it cost a hell of a lot more money to keep an old person alive and health than it does a young person.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The NHS, my favourite subject!

Scrap it. Get rid of the entire bloody thing and replace it with a private health system where everyone earning a wage must pay private health insurance but they can shop around for the best provider of it. The insurance agencies would pay the hospital for the treatment their clients receive and that would force hospital adminstrators to offer a quality service at competitive prices or go under.

We'd see an end to taxpayers money being pissed down the drain and everyone from top to bottom would be accountable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS, my favourite subject!

We'd see an end to taxpayers money being pissed down the drain and everyone from top to bottom would be accountable.

Beverage's idea of an NHS was ok for it's time but our population has doubled since then and the NHS simply cannot cope. Instead, we have a system that is haemorraghing cash at an unbelievable rate. It's disgusting, and if the NHS was a private company it's managers would be sacked for incompetence and it's accountants jailed for fraud."
Who would treat the unemployed? Or the old? or those with long term genetic problems? Those people, if they were able to access Health insurance, would have to pay extortionate premiums and would only be able to get certain treatments (usualy the cheapest, not the most effective. I know NICE do something similar but despite the press to the otherwise, most of the time the best treatments are aproved, not just the cheapest).

We only need to look at the US system of healthcare to see how unhealthy a population we would have under a privately organised health system.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

I foresee some more timeouts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But it isnt free! It was meant to be free at the point of delivery we have prescription charges and dentistry charges.

The NHS is really great for emergency medicine but electric surgery is better done privately.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Have a look at some of the footage of ordinary working people in the US queuing all night for free health clinics. Not for treatment, just for a diagnosis and some advice.

Or those that have started treatment to be told by the insurance company they are no longer covered.

Or the profits the insurance companies and pharmaceutical firms make.

There is much that can be done to improve the NHS. Negotiating a better deal on the drugs bill would have a better impact than endless reorganisations.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We both work in building services. In the past Mr Notts has done some jobs for NHS that would make your hair curl due to gross negligence of wastage. Eg. Demolishing buildings barely a few years old to put new buildings up. He has often said he'd love to speak out as a tax layer , but unfortunately he can't compromise his own customers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Who would treat the unemployed? Or the old? or those with long term genetic problems? Those people, if they were able to access Health insurance, would have to pay extortionate premiums and would only be able to get certain treatments (usualy the cheapest, not the most effective. I know NICE do something similar but despite the press to the otherwise, most of the time the best treatments are aproved, not just the cheapest).

We only need to look at the US system of healthcare to see how unhealthy a population we would have under a privately organised health system."

People in receipt of government benefit can still be treated but it can be monitored a lot more closely. For example, if someone is drinking all day (when they should be looking for a job) and their drinking leads to health issues then they can have their benefits stopped unless their improve their lifestyle.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if providers of healthcare insurance offer very good packages as an incentive to get your business - like family cover included in the main breadwinner's policy. That should take care of most of the population but for those who insist on sticking needles in their veins and then pumping themselves full of crack, well, tough shit, it's not my job to pay taxes to keep them alive so they can go and do it again. Fuck 'em.

As for the US system of healthcare - we can see how it's run over there - and not do the bloody same thing here. We can run ours BETTER.

It's not rocket science to educate the population from an early age that they owe to themselves to remain reasonably healthy but it's not the govt's job to wetnurse the populace to keep them from harming themselves. We don't have a national household insurance, or a national car insurance, so why have a national health insurance (that doesn't do what it says on the tin)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The NHS, my favourite subject!

We'd see an end to taxpayers money being pissed down the drain and everyone from top to bottom would be accountable.

Beverage's idea of an NHS was ok for it's time but our population has doubled since then and the NHS simply cannot cope. Instead, we have a system that is haemorraghing cash at an unbelievable rate. It's disgusting, and if the NHS was a private company it's managers would be sacked for incompetence and it's accountants jailed for fraud."
Do you read the Sun per chance? In a modern and thoughtful society there should be no barriers to health care and the benefits of modern science. I would much rather have a go at the MOD who waste millions each year and do not provide adequate equipment for those on the front line. We will be judged on how we educate our children, care for the elderly, treat the sick and care for those in less fortunate positions than those who can post diatribe on a sex site. I am a bleeding heart liberal from a council estate by the way!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

USA 14.7% of GDP on health, uk 7.7%

USA $7960, uk $3487 per capita...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

So a fully open system doesn't work...... But we need improvement

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It would be horrible to do away with it, my friend has had over 200 operations since birth and there is no way his family could afford the cost of that.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"But it isnt free! It was meant to be free at the point of delivery we have prescription charges and dentistry charges.

The NHS is really great for emergency medicine but electric surgery is better done privately. "

I hope you meant elective surgery

I have had surgery, with better choice (including the date and consultant I wanted) on the NHS than I could have found in the private sector. I have had friends experience surgery in the private sector that had to be corrected or have additional treatment as follow up on the NHS.

We haven't had a proper debate on what people can expect for the money available because that would be too difficult for any politician.

It is very contentious but the costs of keeping very premature babies is enormously high. The outcomes are often not great but no one would seriously suggest this should be cut. But it is part of the debate to be had along with treating the super obese, the anorexics, the smokers, those with mental health problems, heart problems, cancer and old age.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am very grateful for the nhs. My son has a severe bleeding disorder which we treat at home with intravenous medication every other day each treatment costing 500 a time. This will be for the rest of his life and the dose and cost with increase as he gets older. We both work but would never be able to afford to fund it ourselves. I have nothing but gratitude for the nhs

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A 1948 idea will always need to be refined and updated if only to keep pace with modern science but the basic principle of free delivery has to be the foundation of the NHS.

We have the resource it just needs careful updating!

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By *amslam1000Man over a year ago

willenhall

"Short of money..... No way....

£107 billion a year

4th biggest employer in the world, 1.7m.... (who knows th other 3 ?)

We get the nhs we deserve, we don't value effective management, too much localism, politics drives decisions not common sense....

To get a better nhs employ better managers and let them manage it properly and ban local and national politicians from decisions, we have to get a bigger bang for our buck.

Oh and having been around the world, it is fantastic, and a lot better than the alternative..."

the failure of the system we have now is mainly due to not having proper managers but promoted doctors and nurses hiring managers at the NHS salaries and then letting things get out of controll then blaming the government for changing the rules.

The trust that I work for has sacked the incompetent bunch of tossers that used to run it and now has a ££ million surplus when the hospital 4 miles away is nearing bankrupcy with the Pf Fing I new hospital that will take 40 years to pay for. when i left work friday it had been 1103 days since we had a MRSA infection and the thing we are targetting now is pressure sores these things happen in carehomes we end up with sick patients arriving with open sores and dying then the families blame us for causing it (case 1 old lady comes in with large bedsore that has taken 6 months to grow dies after 3 days and the family try to sue the hospital for causing it)

RANT OVER

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Waiting lists have only gone up due to the current budget cuts, the syphoning off of money to private contractors and the general way the NHS trust are set up and it's only going to get worse after the health and social care bill is fully implemented.

Private isn't better for operations, I see the after effects at work and it's the NHS that picks up the pieces. Add in insurance company's and you'd just have another layer of beuocracy to deal with wasting yet more money.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is a self-inflicted problem?"

Heart problems caused by stress resulting from spending forty of fifty hours a week making money for oneself and ten hours a week driving to and from the place where one makes money. Obesity caused by gluttony and laziness most especially in the form of driving everywhere rather than walking or cycling. Liver problems caused by too much drinking . Nervous breakdowns caused by stress resulting from spending too much time making money for oneself in order to buy houses, cars, computers and televisions. Other mental health problems caused by spending too much time sitting in front of televisions and computers and not enough time interacting with other people. Car accidents resulting from tiredness due to spending too much time making money for oneself. Illnesses resulting from bad diet and lack of exercise.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Waiting lists have only gone up due to the current budget cuts, the syphoning off of money to private contractors and the general way the NHS trust are set up and it's only going to get worse after the health and social care bill is fully implemented.

Waiting lists have always gone up regardless of who's running the country. Would it really be so difficult for the gvot to say, "we'll pay for supplies but we'll only pay a price we set, and you'll provide it at that price or you'll go out of business (because we're your bigeest customer and without us you won't survive)."

But no, we have to fork out £50 for a pair of gloves, £20 for a box of tissues and £11 for a light bulb. GRRRRR That's MY money!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Waiting lists have always gone up regardless of who's running the country. Would it really be so difficult for the gvot to say, "we'll pay for supplies but we'll only pay a price we set, and you'll provide it at that price or you'll go out of business (because we're your bigeest customer and without us you won't survive)."

But no, we have to fork out £50 for a pair of gloves, £20 for a box of tissues and £11 for a light bulb. GRRRRR That's MY money!!

Actually under Labour they had pretty much vanished, all the waiting targets were being met in all but a few hospitals so no it is definitely this governments reorganisations.

But yes the PFI contracts (first introduced by the Conservatives and continued by Labour), especially the early ones are terrible and need to be renegotiated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I worked in the NHS for quite a number of years and what most people do not realise that most hospitals are controlled by the GP's deciding where they will spend their money for the services. Most surgical waiting lists have been shortened over the years and most patients are seen, diagnosed and booked for surgery in less than 20 weeks. Cancer patients have their diagnosis and treatment within 62 days of seeing their GP. I have to say that is not too bad and all for free. Did you all know that your local hospitals are penalised by your GP's for breach of SLA's (Service Level Agreemnets) set by the GP's and at most are unrealistic. For example the SLA states patients have to have surgery within 6 months of referral but not before 4 months of referral!!!! If your hospital manages to give you a date before the 4 months the GP's can fine the hospital for breach of SLA. Is this acceptable - no it is not. xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

N.H.S???? What is that?????

I am lucky enough to have a mum who got 30% of share in a private hospital and paris is just an hour hlight from manchester

I don't even have a GP here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Uh oh...

(sits back and waits for the shit to hit the fan!)"

try and avoid sitting behind it...

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"N.H.S???? What is that?????

I am lucky enough to have a mum who got 30% of share in a private hospital and paris is just an hour hlight from manchester

I don't even have a GP here"

So if you had a sore throat or a boil on your arse you would fly to Paris?

Makes sense that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

I think if we did'nt have the NHS regardless of how much people moan about it we would all be losers,we are extremely lucky to have what we do have

Everyday I see amazing things done by the NHS and im proud to be a part of it when it works well

Its world class service

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"I think if we did'nt have the NHS regardless of how much people moan about it we would all be losers,we are extremely lucky to have what we do have

Everyday I see amazing things done by the NHS and im proud to be a part of it when it works well

Its world class service "

it may not be perfect,but it's not envied by the world for nothing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think if we did'nt have the NHS regardless of how much people moan about it we would all be losers,we are extremely lucky to have what we do have

Everyday I see amazing things done by the NHS and im proud to be a part of it when it works well

Its world class service

it may not be perfect,but it's not envied by the world for nothing."

and I cant wait to get my free robocock in 2020

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"N.H.S???? What is that?????

I am lucky enough to have a mum who got 30% of share in a private hospital and paris is just an hour hlight from manchester

I don't even have a GP here

So if you had a sore throat or a boil on your arse you would fly to Paris?

Makes sense that"

Straight away

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By *tensonSwingersCouple over a year ago

Stenson Fields

N.H.S FREE?....blimey, wonder where those National Insurance contributions I have to pay go to each month?!

We are both smokers, self-inflicted lung disease, cancer etc blah de blah de blah. But guess what?..the tax on the cigarettes we buy go to fund the N.H.S, so when my lungs pack up, I expect to be first in the queue, or certainly in front of a non-smoker who hasnt contibuted the same amount of taxes as me!

*( a controversial post that does not neccesarily reflect my true opinions)*

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"I think if we did'nt have the NHS regardless of how much people moan about it we would all be losers,we are extremely lucky to have what we do have

Everyday I see amazing things done by the NHS and im proud to be a part of it when it works well

Its world class service

it may not be perfect,but it's not envied by the world for nothing.

and I cant wait to get my free robocock in 2020"

the robocock is ok,shagging the robots, thats not so good.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Like it or not, one cannot fault the dedication of those who work in the NHS, except for the pen-pushing time-wasting executives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think if we did'nt have the NHS regardless of how much people moan about it we would all be losers,we are extremely lucky to have what we do have

Everyday I see amazing things done by the NHS and im proud to be a part of it when it works well

Its world class service "
Noted and agreed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"N.H.S FREE?....blimey, wonder where those National Insurance contributions I have to pay go to each month?!

*( a controversial post that does not neccesarily reflect my true opinions)*"
NI contributions do not fun the NHS. NI is used (Mainly) for unemployment payments and family allowance. The NHS is funded from the exchequer with tax. The free NHS is at the point of delivery.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like it or not, one cannot fault the dedication of those who work in the NHS, except for the pen-pushing time-wasting executives.

It's not the nurses or the junior doctors forced to work 70+ hours a week I have a problem with, it's the way the whole thing is finances from the top down to lowest paid NHS worker. It's how the procurement depts seem to completely misunderstand basic economics that it makes perfect sense to buy in bulk from few suppliers and negotiate a rate that the taxpayer is happy with - not pay exhorbitant prices to companies who are deliberately taking the piss because 'well ,its not our money is it, its the govts and they can afford it'.

The NHS does provide an excellent front line service but the whole structure of it is corrupt and if it proves impossible to fix it without all those money-grabbers blocking every move to amputate their revenue streams (see what I did there

) then it has to be scrapped and a new health system adopted that is fresh, new, and clean (financially) and better equipped to provide health cover for 65-70m people.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

The concept of the NHS is free at the point of delivery.

Without moral judgement and discrimination.

People in need are prioritised and treated, irrespective of how that need arose.

If you begin to introduce moral judgements, where do you draw the line?

Does the doctor refuse to treat the car crash victim with multiple fractures because he or she is suspected of being over the alcohol limit?

Does the nurse refuse to treat the pensioner with emphasemia because he or she smoke 20 cigs a day 20 years ago?

It may not be perfect, but establishing a system of universal access to healthcare has to be one of this country's proudest achievements. It is the sign of a caring society.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In 1948 beverage set up the health service to eradication the 5 evils, squalour, ignorence, idleness, disease and want. NOONW could fortell how it would escalate. People complain about waiting lists, people complain about all sorts to do with the health service, what they forget is its free in this country.

If they dont like it go live in a country where you have to pay for your own health care.

Many many operations today save lives, from quadruple bypass's to ingrowing two nails you can have them done.

Also im always shocked when people remember life before the health service start moaning."

Certainly is not free. What about the tax you pay?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

dont care what people say, its still about the best free, at point of service system in the world.

£7.50 for NHS prescription.. expensive????

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

dont knock the NHS.. yes it has problems but who do you all turn to when you are sick????

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By *tensonSwingersCouple over a year ago

Stenson Fields

"N.H.S FREE?....blimey, wonder where those National Insurance contributions I have to pay go to each month?!

*( a controversial post that does not neccesarily reflect my true opinions)* NI contributions do not fun the NHS. NI is used (Mainly) for unemployment payments and family allowance. The NHS is funded from the exchequer with tax. The free NHS is at the point of delivery."

So, I drink alcohol.... taxed on luxury!....I smoke.....taxed on an addictive luxury that the government actually promoted before U-turning and banning advertising on tobacco products. My taxes are paying for a service, if the service is not up to scratch, then people have a right to complain...simple. It only grieves me in the fact that I can't opt out or have a tax reduction as I pay into private healthcare and get a far superior level of care than the NHS.

After being involved in a motorcycle accident a few years ago,( I was knocked off by a car driver who pulled out of a junction), I was actually billed for the cost of the ambulance to attend! Just what exactly am I paying for? Luckily, the cost was recovered from the other persons insurance, but being billed for the ambulance to attend, while still in hospital undergoing treatment and surgery, was quite worrying.

The NHS is a failure, pure and simple.

Not blaming the grass roots, doctors and nurses, its the Trust and the politicians that have screwed it over.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"dont care what people say, its still about the best free, at point of service system in the world.

£7.50 for NHS prescription.. expensive????

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

dont knock the NHS.. yes it has problems but who do you all turn to when you are sick????"

also try Lucentis injections for macular degeneration!!!

cost to buy £900 per shot with a MINIMUM of 3 initial shots.

i know someone who has, to date, had 18 injections..

cost to patient £NIL.....

but its a sight saver in a lot of cases...

cataract operation.. private cost £1500 to £3000.

cost to patient £ NIL..

Please dont knock a system that even when stretched still delivers quality service and saves lives

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I confess I haven't read every post but I share other's concern about the amount of money that you hear is being wasted in the NHS.

Someone also mentioned the MOD where money just goes walkabout. How many millions did it cost just to 'assess' if the new aircraft carriers could be built as 'cat & catch' rather than for VTOL aircraft?

The common thread here is large public organisations with little or no internal accountability and more focus on 'process' than 'results'. Something that has built up over decades where the the 'job for life' mentality rules.

Whats the answer? Well maybe God only knows but I would never suggest a US style model as it is even more expensive, delivers less for the majority but more for a minority. But then that is the USA all over.

I think the Government's reforms will at least make the use of money going into hospitals more efficient as someone outside the hospital is now accountable for a budget (ie a GP). And therefore the hospitals will have to provide better care to persuade GPs to use them. As we have seen this week many hospitals are drowning in a sea of debt through the monstrous PFI deals engineered by the last government and one has been effectively been made bankrupt and is now under direct administration. More will undoubtedly follow.

And as for the MOD ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"N.H.S FREE?....blimey, wonder where those National Insurance contributions I have to pay go to each month?!

NI contributions do not fun the NHS. NI is used (Mainly) for unemployment payments and family allowance. The NHS is funded from the exchequer with tax. The free NHS is at the point of delivery."

National Insurance is a tax based on your income paid by you and your employer. It goes to the Exchequer just like all other taxes. The Chancellor then apportions spending according to the Policies of the Government of the day and the tax income.

Thats how we pay for our Democracy and I don't have too many problems with it (other than I want to pay less of course

)

One little trick that a previous Chancellor pulled and which no one really noticed was when spending was increased on the NHS in one part of his Budget and then at the back end he increased employers NI contributions. Now who is the biggest employer in Europe? Yep the NHS! So while the headlines were 'More NHS spending' the reality was he was stealthily (there is the clue) taking more out of the NHS than he was putting in.

That is Politics. Democracy it isn't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

Doggy insurance: £7/month

Or is your 'pet' not as important as you when it comes to it's health?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

Doggy insurance: £7/month

Or is your 'pet' not as important as you when it comes to it's health?

not all insurance covers all things...

there are exclusions on most policies

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

Doggy insurance: £7/month

Or is your 'pet' not as important as you when it comes to it's health?

not all insurance covers all things...

there are exclusions on most policies

I've had pets in the past and had comprehensive cover for £9/month for two animals. Admittedly that was quite a few years ago so the premiums would be higher now, but the cover is there if you're prepared to pay for it.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

Doggy insurance: £7/month

Or is your 'pet' not as important as you when it comes to it's health?

not all insurance covers all things...

there are exclusions on most policies

Surely that is the very point? The cover is there in the private system if you are prepared to pay for - that presupposes that you have the means to pay for it.

I agree with you that we need an NHS that can cope with modern medical practice and treatment options and provide a service for 65m people. It's a tall order. I believe we will have to accept not having everything available on the NHS to keep this as a free at the point of access service. However, people now have such a sense of entitlement (I pay my taxes etc.) that they have lost track of the real cost of things.

As to GPs commissioning from hospitals this has been going on for a while anyway to some extent. Rolling this out will cost money that we can ill afford. GPs are already beginning to re-employ those experienced at commissioning from the PCTs. Guess what? We paid for their redundancies and the reorganisations that will mean they have similar jobs, from the same money, but with a change of employer.

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By *ama bamaMan over a year ago

dalkeith

the NHS is not free in this country.we the working tax payer pay for the NHS to be there for all/just a shame they cant have a two tier NHS where the tax payer gets priority over no tax paying scum who are a drain on the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?"

and dont forget smokers pay billions in taxes and duty... which helps pay for the NHS

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the NHS is not free in this country.we the working tax payer pay for the NHS to be there for all/just a shame they cant have a two tier NHS where the tax payer gets priority over no tax paying scum who are a drain on the NHS."

so an 18 yr old who cant get a job is treated as scum if they get ill??????

great idea.. NOT

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By *annGentMan over a year ago

With a cracking _iew

Wasn't it Nye Bevan who got the NHS up and running ?

And having worked in the NHS -

Rationalise management positions

Restore nurse training to how I did it - hands on

And identify what neccessitates and qualifies as 'free' treatment

It's such a big organisation, how could any changes be made quickly ?

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By *ama bamaMan over a year ago

dalkeith

no a total waste of space junkie fuckers does not get treated

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"no a total waste of space junkie fuckers does not get treated

Even though some of them might have paid taxes in the past? Would higher rate tax payers be entitled to the Platinum Service? I really do hope you never find yourself in the position of needing care at a point in your life when you can no longer contribute through taxes.

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By *ama bamaMan over a year ago

dalkeith

if i caused a car crash i get a bill for the ambulance if i overdose on heroin i dont is that right

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

So anyone who doesnt pay tax is scum

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By *ama bamaMan over a year ago

dalkeith

no if i am of work sick for 6 months i go on half pay and after a year i am on benefits i still have a job but dont get payed so is it not right i get fast track health treatment to keep me paying taxes to pay for the NHS.instead of having to claim benefits.

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By *herokee18Couple over a year ago

Carlisle

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

Alcohol and drugs are choices not something enforced on them by society. Drugs and mental health go hand in hand as the recreational drugs have knock on effects if the individual has a propensity to have a mental illness possibly genetic but not proven.

Plus the nurses who have to fight and do get injured by individuals off their heads on plant food or one of the other designer drugs. they are paid no where near their true worth and not inline with their peers in Police or Fire services.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"no if i am of work sick for 6 months i go on half pay and after a year i am on benefits i still have a job but dont get payed so is it not right i get fast track health treatment to keep me paying taxes to pay for the NHS.instead of having to claim benefits."

So you will be one of those scum you where talking about. Lots of people dont pay taxes. Those who are under 16, retired people, people on low incomes that dont fall into the tax bracket and people that work part time. You really have no idea do you

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

Drugs and mental health go hand in hand

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It depends upon what you class as 'self inflicted'

Bit of a shaky area methinks

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By *ick and tockCouple over a year ago

wigan

what kind of idiot would make a thread up like this

only a plonker

at the top of page... only cos 2 years ago i broke my spine and spent a long time in hosp where they put a shit pile of metal work in me .... hay hay to the nhs for all the hard work they do

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies..."

Mostly refers to the selective amnesia you acuse everyone else of having

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies...

Mostly refers to the selective amnesia you acuse everyone else of having"

I accuse EVERYONE ELSE of selective amnesia? Do explain?

And please answer my question. Or is this just another one of your unfounded personal pops at someone who likes to have a good debate in the Forum.

Produce an answer or please jog on and annoy someone who actually gives a rats arse.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies...

Mostly refers to the selective amnesia you acuse everyone else of having

I accuse EVERYONE ELSE of selective amnesia? Do explain?

And please answer my question. Or is this just another one of your unfounded personal pops at someone who likes to have a good debate in the Forum.

Produce an answer or please jog on and annoy someone who actually gives a rats arse."

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I really do think they should go back to matrons running wards and getting rid of so many privatized companies running the NHS.

But to answer the OP.

It's not perfect but it's free and still a leading example to many countries, why else would they send so many students here to be trained in Britain? "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well it's very clear who doesn't work for the nhs. The ones who always have something to say as if they are expert on everything. I wander how they find time to do any swinging.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well it's very clear who doesn't work for the nhs. The ones who always have something to say as if they are expert on everything. I wander how they find time to do any swinging. "

My apologies, I didn't realise I was supposed to spend every waking hour I'm not working waving my cock around yelling, "Who wants to suck this!"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies...

Mostly refers to the selective amnesia you acuse everyone else of having

I accuse EVERYONE ELSE of selective amnesia? Do explain?

And please answer my question. Or is this just another one of your unfounded personal pops at someone who likes to have a good debate in the Forum.

Produce an answer or please jog on and annoy someone who actually gives a rats arse.

As I thought just a personal pop, I hope the Mods see this and take note.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"dont care what people say, its still about the best free, at point of service system in the world.

£7.50 for NHS prescription.. expensive????

try asking an animal owner how much VET prescriptions are......

me.... one sick dog.... 3 weeks later and £700 down in treatment and drugs...

dont knock the NHS.. yes it has problems but who do you all turn to when you are sick????"
So how come in scotland they no longer pay for prescriptions??? why cant we do it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ha ha

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cost to NHS of Friday / Saturday nights binge drinking is terrible. A simple solution would be first time £100.00, then 2nd time £400 like all other European countries do. Would free loads of money up for serious illnesses and also stop people of calling 999 asking to be driven home... H.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Cost to NHS of Friday / Saturday nights binge drinking is terrible. A simple solution would be first time £100.00, then 2nd time £400 like all other European countries do. Would free loads of money up for serious illnesses and also stop people of calling 999 asking to be driven home... H.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well it's very clear who doesn't work for the nhs. The ones who always have something to say as if they are expert on everything. I wander how they find time to do any swinging. "

Don't think someone has to work in the NHS to know it has huge problems. Personally I have had nothing but excellent treatment when I have needed it and respect those who do work there. Its just the society it was designed for in 1948 doesn't exist anymore and successive Governments (of all persuasions) until now have done nothing to address this fundamental problem.

Hopefully we will see a mindset change with GPs in more control of the money going into hospitals and more aware of the Holistic nature of health welfare.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well when you work for the nhs you may realise what tripe you are all coming out with.

And you think it'll get better with gps running it. Heaven help us.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Well it's very clear who doesn't work for the nhs. The ones who always have something to say as if they are expert on everything. I wander how they find time to do any swinging.

Hopefully we will see a mindset change with GPs in more control of the money going into hospitals and more aware of the Holistic nature of health welfare."

There is a simple but major flaw with GPs commissioning everything. I have an autoimmune disease, diagnosed 20 years ago. I was the only person my GP had seen with this and had not a clue. But, the practice I attend is excellent and recognise their limitations and referred me quickly. My GP would not have set aside budget for commissioning services for me because the practice did not know what ongoing care I would need etc. Public health commissioning is a complex thing and looking at the wider demographic, which hospitals can do, makes sense.

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By *herokee18Couple over a year ago

Carlisle

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

Drugs and mental health go hand in hand

NHS Mental health services are the ones who deal with the aftermath of problems occurring from drug taking. Cannabis has produced levels of psychosis in some young folk. It it is gutting to see youngsters who's "normal" life is at an end due to damage from soft and hard drugs.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

Drugs and mental health go hand in hand

I agree that drugs can cause mental health problems im disagreeing with that. What i am disagreeing with is that drugs and mental health go hand in hand. The ones who suffer some form of mental health problems is a small percentage of all people with mental health problems

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

The ones who suffer some form of mental health problems is a small percentage of all people with mental health problems"
Indeed it is, at least one in 4 adults has some form of MH problems at some stage in their life.Also the absence of obvious mental health symptoms in a person does not mean that they are mentally healthy.

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By *tensonSwingersCouple over a year ago

Stenson Fields

But all that alcohol consumed, look at all the tax flying into the government coffers off it...alcohol...taxed to the max as are cigarettes....why you think so much alcohol and cigarettes are smuggled into this country?....because other countries don't tax them to the hilt and they are more affordable. This then leads to a vicious circle. Government greed, taxes the drinkers and the smokers heavily....people then buy blackmarket/imported alcohol/tobacco cheaper from other European countries (usually)....Government then raises taxes on alcohol/tobacco to compensate for their tax loss.

Drinking and smoking are about the 2 last bastions of indulgence we have not had taken away, even though through taxes, they are slowly removing even these.

The whole country is fooked!...not just the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i assumed the nhs was for people who weren't well whether it was self inflicted or not

still,you learn something new every day!

oh hang on...it is

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By *ama bamaMan over a year ago

dalkeith

menatl health is not a life choice taken drugs that bring on mental health is a life choice fuck them

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

"Charlie you really do just make things up as you go along

And to which of my many fantasies are you now referring Sam?

I do hope 'making it up' isn't Fabspeak for telling lies...

Mostly refers to the selective amnesia you acuse everyone else of having

I accuse EVERYONE ELSE of selective amnesia? Do explain?

And please answer my question. Or is this just another one of your unfounded personal pops at someone who likes to have a good debate in the Forum.

Produce an answer or please jog on and annoy someone who actually gives a rats arse.

As I thought just a personal pop, I hope the Mods see this and take note."

no I date say Im not the only one that has noticed that your favourite way of putting someone down is by saying they have selective amnesia - and if me reminding you of that is "having a pop at you" then I would suggest that you are a little sensitive

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

doubt

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By *ucky_LadsCouple (MM) over a year ago

Kidderminster+ surrounding areas.

" we have a system that is haemorraghing cash at an unbelievable rate. It's disgusting, and if the NHS was a private company it's managers would be sacked for incompetence and it's accountants jailed for fraud."

if so much money was not wasted the nhs would not need handouts!,far too many overseas freeloaders i am afraid coming here for births and operations then fleeing without paying a penny for our health service!.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Take the people who abuse drink , drugs food we will save loads of money.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I take it anyone on here who believes self inflicted illnesses should be paid for and who are unfortunate enough to contract an STD will insist on recompensing the NHS for the treatment they receive?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"doubt

I do not 'put people down' I leave that to others like you who turn everything into personal comments and attacks.

Saying someone has 'selective amnesia' is another polite way of saying they are being 'economical with the truth'. It is not a personal attack.

There is a world of difference between a personal attack and disagreeing with another's point of _iew or saying they aren't telling the whole story.

So as you still haven't told me where I was 'making things up as I went along' (ie telling lies) I will assume you were just trying to wind me up to make me say something that will get me banned.

Take more than you can offer to do that...

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

I dont think you will find I turn everthing into personal attacks on people - just because I think you always come out with the same phrase to attack people - when clearly you are making things up all the time as far as politics go

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I take it anyone on here who believes self inflicted illnesses should be paid for and who are unfortunate enough to contract an STD will insist on recompensing the NHS for the treatment they receive?"
Actually that is a really good point!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a question about one of Charlie's posts.

If the NI contributions went up,they went up for everyone. The fact that the NHS is our biggest employer is incidental.

Or is he suggesting that the chancellor cynically raised the NI subs SOLELY to recoup the extra money given to the NHS. Cos to my eyes hats how it reads

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I try to make one occasionally

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Should people who suffer from self-inflicted problems have to pay for there treatment?"

It can be argued that there are no health issues that are not self inflicted....

RTA, you chose to drive / walk / cycle and to be at the scene of the accident, no matter what the cause you put yourself in harms way by leaving the house!

Sports injury, your choice

Pregnancy, entirley optional.... actually if you have not chosen to be born then you would never be ill!!

The NHS is the envy of the world, ranking in the top ten for service delivery and ability, and pretty efficient in it's use of it's funding too...

The main problem it has is being a political football that can be kicked by every side, being so large, and providing so much, there will always be an element that can be found to pick fault with.

The 10's of thousands of things it does really well each month get forgotten very quickly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they dont like it go live in a country where you have to pay for your own health care.

Many many operations today save lives, from quadruple bypass's to ingrowing two nails you can have them done.

Also im always shocked when people remember life before the health service start moaning."
I think you missed the gentlemans point, being self inflicted. I agree that someone sitting on their largening arse stuffing their face with food likened to faeces, chips, cakes, fried mars bars and the like. Untill they have to be cut from their houses also paid for by the tax payer because they are "to ill" to pay for it should certainly pay for their self inflicted injuries. They paid plenty to become so obese in the first place and that wasn't a problem

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have a question about one of Charlie's posts.

If the NI contributions went up,they went up for everyone. The fact that the NHS is our biggest employer is incidental.

Or is he suggesting that the chancellor cynically raised the NI subs SOLELY to recoup the extra money given to the NHS. Cos to my eyes hats how it reads"

NI went up for everyone as do all taxes and rightly so.

What happened was the publicity surrounding the increase in NHS spending failed to 'Nett Off' the extra amount the NHS and its employees would then be paying. My point was that the Nett additional spending on the NHS wasn't as big as was being promoted and maybe a more cynical person would say it was 'handy' if not deliberate.

I am sorry if that wasn't made clear.

Personally I would stop any NHS, Police Fire or other taxpayer funded bodies and their employees paying NHS as its just a very expensive and vast emptying of one public bucket into another and just obscures true investment.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some amongst us overplay the costs but seem to have less appreciation and underplay the value.

I value very highly that I live in a country that provides healthcare and education to all that is free at the point of delivery. For me it is a bedrock of the society I choose to live in. The 'costs' are no where near the value I put on that.

The privatisation debate is a simple one, your either selfish or your not. I don't care if I pay more tax for the NHS than maybe possible in a more free market insurance based system, I like the NHS and I don't want to turn a blind eye to those who would simply not be insured.

Some people are quick to blame the senior management of the NHS. The charge often being that they should run it more like a business, the balance sheet and profit & loss being the key. Movement towards a more 'private sector' mentality....What about the banks? Would people prefer banking executive types running the NHS?

Some blame the 'buying' departments of the NHS for not knocking down suppliers. What about the prices private hospitals currently pay? What about the prices of medication currently paid in the states?

People prattle on about waiting lists, but up until recently they had all but disappeared. For most the NHS had slipped out of everyday conversation and certainly mainstream media chat because it was doing a pretty goog job.

Lets not kid ourselves, it's only back on the agenda because of the cuts.

I appreciate there are issues, but I just hope we don't take a hatchet to it to cut short term costs because I fear we will lose a hell of a lot of long term value.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lets not kid ourselves, it's only back on the agenda because of the cuts.

I appreciate there are issues, but I just hope we don't take a hatchet to it to cut short term costs because I fear we will lose a hell of a lot of long term value.

What cuts are those? NHS funding has been ringfenced and has been increased.

Only reductions are the efficiency gains demanded by the previous government (Which I support before I get flamed) and which savings are being ploughed back into the NHS.

But you are right. The NHS is a special thing and we should do all we can to preserve its founding principles while modernising how we deliver them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some amongst us overplay the costs but seem to have less appreciation and underplay the value.

Lets not kid ourselves, it's only back on the agenda because of the cuts.

I appreciate there are issues, but I just hope we don't take a hatchet to it to cut short term costs because I fear we will lose a hell of a lot of long term value.

If I were more erudite I would have said exactly this. Excellent post

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some amongst us overplay the costs but seem to have less appreciation and underplay the value.

Lets not kid ourselves, it's only back on the agenda because of the cuts.

I appreciate there are issues, but I just hope we don't take a hatchet to it to cut short term costs because I fear we will lose a hell of a lot of long term value.

I agree with almost everything you said there. It's an NHS we should have all the time, not just a few years when a particular govt has chucked enough money at it that the astronomical amount of money wasted is minute in comparison, but it cannot continue to leak cash in the way it is and still expect to have an endless pit of public money available to it. No business would be run that way and none would survive if it was.

The front line service of the NHS I can't fault (even though Siren's antenatal care in January was appalling compared to three years ago when it was exceptional - and in the same Mat. Unit), but dedicated nurses and doctros will do their jobs to the best of their ability and leave the running of the place to the admin. They feel the effects of cuts when Admin isn't doing it's job properly as let's be honest, the NHS could swallow up the cuts if it dealt with the amount of money wasted by it.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Some amongst us overplay the costs but seem to have less appreciation and underplay the value.

Lets not kid ourselves, it's only back on the agenda because of the cuts.

I appreciate there are issues, but I just hope we don't take a hatchet to it to cut short term costs because I fear we will lose a hell of a lot of long term value.

"
Spot on - as usual

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What cuts are those? NHS funding has been ringfenced and has been increased.

Imagine for a moment that you run a Mars Bar eating company, your main purchases are obviously Mars Bars. If 10 years ago you were lucky enough to be told that your budget would be ringfenced and not cut you might naively celebrate, but 10 years ago a Mars Bar was possibly 20p, today the same bar is possibly 60p.

Your ringfenced budget will buy a third of the Mars Bars today as a decade ago, even a small yearly increase of 2p/bar on your budget means in real terms your buying power has dropped 33% because the bars have gone up 4p/bar a year.

The NHS is being asked to do more with the same money, in real terms it's being cut.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

What cuts are those? NHS funding has been ringfenced and has been increased.

The NHS is being asked to do more with the same money, in real terms it's being cut.

Plus they were implementing 'efficiency' savings of many millions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What cuts are those? NHS funding has been ringfenced and has been increased.

The NHS is being asked to do more with the same money, in real terms it's being cut.

Excellent point very well made as usual.

Except the ringfencing started 2 years ago not 10 and its ringfenced in line with inflation. I take ringfencing to mean it will not be cut in real terms.

So your 20p Mars Bar may well be 60p now 10 years later but at least it would be the same size surely?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I really don't understand how some people are happy about having their pockets picked to pay for a system that is corrupt and unaccountable so long as they still receive 'free' medical care when they need it.

Lack of eyesight is a medical problem but we have to pay for optician fees.

Lack of teeth to eat solid food is a medical problem but we have to pay for dentistry.

Medicines required to cure our ailments are definately a medical problem but we are fleeced for prescription charges.

So unless you lose a leg and manage to hop into A&E late at night and wait for four hours to be seen without bleeding to death, what are the benefits of a supposedly 'free' health service?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 01/07/12 22:52:47]

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Changed my mind

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Changed my mind

Is that available on the NHS too now? Well blow me!

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I really don't understand how some people are happy about having their pockets picked to pay for a system that is corrupt and unaccountable so long as they still receive 'free' medical care when they need it.

Lack of eyesight is a medical problem but we have to pay for optician fees.

Lack of teeth to eat solid food is a medical problem but we have to pay for dentistry.

Medicines required to cure our ailments are definately a medical problem but we are fleeced for prescription charges.

So unless you lose a leg and manage to hop into A&E late at night and wait for four hours to be seen without bleeding to death, what are the benefits of a supposedly 'free' health service?"

Again, free at the point of access and some do get free dentistry and eye care. I wasn't charged when I had to be seen at Moorfields.

My aunt receieved excellent and free care right up until her death when she she fell ill with Motor Neuron Disease - she would not have been able to afford treatment without the NHS. I could go on and list all the positive cases there are.

You even say that your ante-natal care was good a few years ago but has deteriorated now. Why has it deteriorated?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Changed my mind

Is that available on the NHS too now? Well blow me!

Blow you...

No you're ok... Thanks thou

At my age any offer is appreciated

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You even say that your ante-natal care was good a few years ago but has deteriorated now. Why has it deteriorated?"

Because the midwives are arsed that they have to work a bit harder because there isn't enough of them as there was before. Personally, I don't give a fuck about that as it took every ounce of strength I could muster NOT to go up there and punch someone's lights out when Siren text me at 5am to tell me she'd been in agony for 4 hours because some stupid bitch had moved her call button out of her reach and she needed help to get out of bed to go and pee. The same stupid bitch also told her that she should have been up and about by then anyway (16 hours after a c-section) - you wouldn't force a soldier to walk with an abdominal wound like that.

Those 'nurses' should still have been providing a level of care we felt we should have expected, and had experienced three years ago when our son was born in the same place, but they were working to rule.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Again, free at the point of access and some do get free dentistry and eye care. I wasn't charged when I had to be seen at Moorfields."

Some get it. That's about the crux of the matter isn't it. Some pay for it and don't receive free optical/dentistry care, and some don't pay for it and do get it.

How is that a fair system of healthcare?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Excellent point very well made as usual.

Except the ringfencing started 2 years ago not 10 and its ringfenced in line with inflation. I take ringfencing to mean it will not be cut in real terms.

So your 20p Mars Bar may well be 60p now 10 years later but at least it would be the same size surely?"

I know it's not been 10 years, that along with the Mars Bars business was just to illustrate a point.

The ringfencing is not in line with inflation, the Kings Fund Quartely Report on the performance of the NHS confirms that in the first quarter of this year alone the NHS has experienced a real terms cut of 0.4%.

If it hadn't had the pay freezes of the front line staff (people who I believe deserve every penny they earn), the picture would have been worse.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Again, free at the point of access and some do get free dentistry and eye care. I wasn't charged when I had to be seen at Moorfields.

Some get it. That's about the crux of the matter isn't it. Some pay for it and don't receive free optical/dentistry care, and some don't pay for it and do get it.

How is that a fair system of healthcare?"

For the same reason that some get free prescriptions (England only on this point) - because it's a service for all regardless of income, age, gender, race, class, sexuality, religion etc.

I have experienced overstretched maternity services (and not something I would wish on anyone) but at no point did I think it was malicious or deliberate.

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By *am sampsonMan over a year ago

cwmbran

Excellent point very well made as usual.

Except the ringfencing started 2 years ago not 10 and its ringfenced in line with inflation. I take ringfencing to mean it will not be cut in real terms.

So your 20p Mars Bar may well be 60p now 10 years later but at least it would be the same size surely?

I know it's not been 10 years, that along with the Mars Bars business was just to illustrate a point.

If it hadn't had the pay freezes of the front line staff (people who I believe deserve every penny they earn), the picture would have been worse. "

This goes hand in hand with welfare cuts and cuts elsewhere in social care etc - people will be presenting themselves to the NHS because they wont be able to access services elsewhere - bed blocking will increase for example.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Again, free at the point of access and some do get free dentistry and eye care. I wasn't charged when I had to be seen at Moorfields.

Some get it. That's about the crux of the matter isn't it. Some pay for it and don't receive free optical/dentistry care, and some don't pay for it and do get it.

How is that a fair system of healthcare?

For the same reason that some get free prescriptions (England only on this point) - because it's a service for all regardless of income, age, gender, race, class, sexuality, religion etc.

It isn't a service for all though is it because income is the defining factor on whether one pays for prescriptions or not. If you earn a wage you have to pay, if you don't work you get it for free. Those that earn pay for those that don't, and then have to pay for themselves.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As is the same for may other things deemed as "free" or a "hand out"

Fantastic and works well for those that need it, however over time it is damaged by those who continually abuse it!

People need re-educating on the fundamental difference between NEED and WANT

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As is the same for may other things deemed as "free" or a "hand out"

Fantastic and works well for those that need it, however over time it is damaged by those who continually abuse it!

People need re-educating on the fundamental difference between NEED and WANT "

Well said!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if i caused a car crash i get a bill for the ambulance if i overdose on heroin i dont is that right

No...its not ffs get over yourself

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As is the same for may other things deemed as "free" or a "hand out"

Fantastic and works well for those that need it, however over time it is damaged by those who continually abuse it!

People need re-educating on the fundamental difference between NEED and WANT "
Last January I was lucky to be in Miami working but with a few days R&R. I had a dental problem and went to the local A&E I explained the problem at what I thought was a triage station. I was asked how i would pay and I said AMEX and was immediately taken to a waiting room and within 5 minutes I was having treatment. I came out and was asked to wait until the wore off (not that sort!!) I chatted to others waiting and said the triage system worked well and was told that I had been seen first by the accounts section the guy who told me had been there for five hours with an abcess that was so painful. I felt awful. Perhaps we should live in the Wishy world of WMD and AMEX?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As is the same for may other things deemed as "free" or a "hand out"

Fantastic and works well for those that need it, however over time it is damaged by those who continually abuse it!

People need re-educating on the fundamental difference between NEED and WANT Last January I was lucky to be in Miami working but with a few days R&R. I had a dental problem and went to the local A&E I explained the problem at what I thought was a triage station. I was asked how i would pay and I said AMEX and was immediately taken to a waiting room and within 5 minutes I was having treatment. I came out and was asked to wait until the wore off (not that sort!!) I chatted to others waiting and said the triage system worked well and was told that I had been seen first by the accounts section the guy who told me had been there for five hours with an abcess that was so painful. I felt awful. Perhaps we should live in the Wishy world of WMD and AMEX?"

Oooops and the Beano!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if i caused a car crash i get a bill for the ambulance if i overdose on heroin i dont is that right

No...its not ffs get over yourself"

Drive safer?

Its like safer sex only you use two hands!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Perhaps we should live in the Wishy world of WMD and AMEX?"

I live in a country that does have WMD and I am very happy about it.

I also have a line of credit to suit my needs when I need it, and I'm very happy about that too.

I don't have a copy of the Beano though as when I was a child I spake as a child but when I became a man I put away such childish things. Perhaps you could lend me yours?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You even say that your ante-natal care was good a few years ago but has deteriorated now. Why has it deteriorated?

A bit OTT there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You even say that your ante-natal care was good a few years ago but has deteriorated now. Why has it deteriorated?

A bit OTT there

Say that after you've received the 'care' we received. ok.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Perhaps we should live in the Wishy world of WMD and AMEX?

I live in a country that does have WMD and I am very happy about it.

I also have a line of credit to suit my needs when I need it, and I'm very happy about that too.

I don't have a copy of the Beano though as when I was a child I spake as a child but when I became a man I put away such childish things. Perhaps you could lend me yours?"
Alas I sold my collection of comics to pay for my hip operation. Hey thats life, isint it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You even say that your ante-natal care was good a few years ago but has deteriorated now. Why has it deteriorated?

A bit OTT there

Say that after you've received the 'care' we received. ok.

Just expressing an opinion on your opinion

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman over a year ago

Deviant City

I am very greatful that we have the NHS. I have several long term chronic illnesses and see numerous consultants, have outpatient appoints 3 to 6 times a week and have regular procedures and lengthy hospital stays.

Due to my ill health, I have had to give up work, so now I'm stuck on benefits and judged to kingdom come. If they were to scrap the NHS, what would genuine people like me do? Sit back and die (in pain too as wouldn't be able to afford my medication)?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So what's the op gotta say about all this ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they dont like it go live in a country where you have to pay for your own health care.

Many many operations today save lives, from quadruple bypass's to ingrowing two nails you can have them done.

Also im always shocked when people remember life before the health service start moaning."
you weren't alive in 1948 you hippocrite

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Short of money. Waiting lists far to long.

Should people who suffer from self-inflicted problems have to pay for there treatment?

Would the private health insurance premiums help them towards a healthy life style?

yes so long as they can opt out of paying tax's into the NHS system, you cant have it both ways

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 02/07/12 11:05:57]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am very greatful that we have the NHS. I have several long term chronic illnesses and see numerous consultants, have outpatient appoints 3 to 6 times a week and have regular procedures and lengthy hospital stays.

Can I ask if you inform the benefits people that you are actively involved in the SM scene? I'm sure they don't what to know how you have sex but I think they'd be keen to see how ill you really are if you are an active submissive in the SM world.

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By *herokee18Couple over a year ago

Carlisle

"What is a self-inflicted problem?

Interestingly you forgot the addiction to nicotine self inflicted illness, treating smoking relatedillnesses costs a bit of moneu doesn't it?

Drugs and mental health go hand in hand

these days the ward populations are tipped more towards folk with issues based around or deriving from drug and alcohol. It is refreshing to get someone with a true mental illnes so I am told.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Keep the fattys ,druggies ,piss heads out save loads if we didn't treat these waste of spaces

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Keep the fattys ,druggies ,piss heads out save loads if we didn't treat these waste of spaces"

you miss out sexual partner swoppers who sharing multiple cocks/vaginas then go on for very regular sexual health checks...

do they leave a cheque at the door when they get the results

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Keep the fattys ,druggies ,piss heads out save loads if we didn't treat these waste of spaces

you miss out sexual partner swoppers who sharing multiple cocks/vaginas then go on for very regular sexual health checks...

do they leave a cheque at the door when they get the results"
never been don't have sex

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Keep the fattys ,druggies ,piss heads out save loads if we didn't treat these waste of spaces

you miss out sexual partner swoppers who sharing multiple cocks/vaginas then go on for very regular sexual health checks...

do they leave a cheque at the door when they get the results never been don't have sex"

cool

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By *odareyouMan over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

In answer to the op , I do pay for treatment self inflicted or other, either through my N.I. contributions or direct taxes, indirect taxation, vat , fuel duty , alcohol duty and a lot more as well,

I've read many of the posts,, its a very emotive subject , I'm fortunate that the times I've needed treatment (all pretty minor stuff) I've received it,.. all generally pretty efficiently delivered and appropriate, I'm grateful it was there,, prior to its inception people of my parents generation have known times where your ability to pay meant treatment or not,.. the nhs could have billions more money put into it and still need more, it is the proverbial bottomless pit,..

There's one thing for certain no political party will go to the country with a proposal to scrap it, that's political suicide , will it evolve through reform , yep , for the better .? For the worse ? Time will tell,

Health and happiness to you good folks.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

Its a shame we cant have a complete opt out clause, where those that are not happy with the nhs can have the money they pay directly to the nhs (not all their taxes just that %) and then they can all go private

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So what's the op gotta say about all this ? "

Fuzzy logic

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now that's a tricky one full of pot holes, loop holes and just about every type of hole there is including arseholes! LOL

If you're gonna make anyone who persues a lifestyle which puts them at risk of developing any long term chronic health condition pay for their care .... we'd all be on there for a start, and you would have to include all people who indulge in dangerous sports aswell as the obvious ones which people always poke the finger at - smokers and the obese, and recreational drug users including all alcohol drinkers! Well that would certainly wave goodbye to the NHS in Britain ... I think that just about covers everybody. LOL

There's just too many to name and it can't be effectively catagorised and put into practice .. too many variables, too many secondary risk factors, blah blah blah.

However ... more incentive to heed medical or healthcare advise would work wonders and prevent worsening of long term conditions, and also limit damage and reverse it in some cases.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Now that's a tricky one full of pot holes, loop holes and just about every type of hole there is including arseholes! LOL

There's just too many to name and it can't be effectively catagorised and put into practice .. too many variables, too many secondary risk factors, blah blah blah.

However ... more incentive to heed medical or healthcare advise would work wonders and prevent worsening of long term conditions, and also limit damage and reverse it in some cases.

..and a good dose of common sense, as displayed in this post, would go a long way too.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Its a shame we cant have a complete opt out clause, where those that are not happy with the nhs can have the money they pay directly to the nhs (not all their taxes just that %) and then they can all go private"

They may not like the price of their meds without the safety net of the current NHS subsidies they enjoy on their prescriptions though....

Their medi insurance cover would soon run out if they became really ill....as it so often does in other countries that don't have a National Health System and expensive meds prices kick in...

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By *ovedupstillCouple over a year ago

mullinwire

im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

have had 3 very bad RTA's in my time and am still here, so none of them meant i was to shuffle off this mortal coil, but the next time...... who knows, but i guarantee i wont be on any life support machine, and definitely wont be going under the knife.

thats whats wrong with the NHS, and the world in general, we are so far away from 'only the strong survive' that the planet is becoming over populated and the weaker are taking resources from those that, arguably, would make the human race 'better'.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine."

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

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By *ovedupstillCouple over a year ago

mullinwire

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to."

Your medical records may very well not be accessed in the event of an accident before a procedure is carried out....time isn't always a luxury doctors and surgeons have.

So if you were to have an appendix or gall bladder bleed out for example, or you had a damaged spleen that was bleeding out....and you were operated on in an emergency and survived....would you _iew that as a diabolical infringement on your rights and sue the hospital trust concerned?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to."

You do know they can be overruled dont you

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By *ovedupstillCouple over a year ago

mullinwire

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to.

Your medical records may very well not be accessed in the event of an accident before a procedure is carried out....time isn't always a luxury doctors and surgeons have.

yes.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to.

Your medical records may very well not be accessed in the event of an accident before a procedure is carried out....time isn't always a luxury doctors and surgeons have.

yes."

That is sad.....I am only glad that your three RTA's never left you with more serious life threatening injuries...some ar not so fortunate.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman over a year ago

little house on the praire

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to.

Your medical records may very well not be accessed in the event of an accident before a procedure is carried out....time isn't always a luxury doctors and surgeons have.

yes."

So you would sooner the hhs spend money on paying you out because you have sued them than some life saving equipment. Yep that makes sense in all youve said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Their medi insurance cover would soon run out if they became really ill....as it so often does in other countries that don't have a National Health System and expensive meds prices kick in...

Medi Insurance can only run out if the govt doesn't legislate to make it illegal for an insurance company to withdraw funding for someone who's paid into their policy and has a right to expect the full cost of their treatment to be paid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to."

Wouldn't it be easier to become a Jehova Witness? No blood transfusions means you won't survive an op. Sorted.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Their medi insurance cover would soon run out if they became really ill....as it so often does in other countries that don't have a National Health System and expensive meds prices kick in...

Tell that to countless thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of Americans who have exceeded their ceiling quota on meds due to a serious illness....

I don't think you have a full understanding of the base costs of meds Wishy, and the operating procedures of medical health insurance companies.

I think you want the best of both worlds...private health, and the NHS to fall back on when the wheels fall off the PH bus.

It's not as simple as you are saying it is.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"Their medi insurance cover would soon run out if they became really ill....as it so often does in other countries that don't have a National Health System and expensive meds prices kick in...

Tell that to countless thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of Americans who have exceeded their ceiling quota on meds due to a serious illness....

I don't think you have a full understanding of the base costs of meds Wishy, and the operating procedures of medical health insurance companies.

I think you want the best of both worlds...private health, and the NHS to fall back on when the wheels fall off the PH bus.

It's not as simple as you are saying it is.

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By *ovedupstillCouple over a year ago

mullinwire

"im gonna get hated for this, but am a true believer of when your time is up, it most certainly is.

if you cant pull through without needing lifesaving surgery then it is your time.

i honestly dont expect anyone to agree, and for some to even call me heartless, or scum (because 1 opinion defines someone) but hey, you have your beliefs and i dont belittle them, so dont mine.

How can you 'guarantee' you won't be on a life support machine and won't be 'going under the knife'?

because these things are in my medical records, along with 'do not resucitate.

medical records have to be checked when you are admitted to hospital, so i fully expect these wishes to be adhered to.

Wouldn't it be easier to become a Jehova Witness? No blood transfusions means you won't survive an op. Sorted.

shouldnt have to change religions to have my wishes adhered to.

as i said, i dont expect anyone of you to understand or appreciate where i am from, as everyone seems to want to live forever, and the vast majority of the population over a certain age have cheated what would probably have been 'their time' thanks to medical advancement, and all power to them.

its just not for me.

and its why i do not also carry a donor card.

once again, it comes down to the swinging populous not being as open minded as they all suggest they are.

what harm is it to anyone else if i dont want to be saved when my time is up?

nonoe, thats what.

at least i will never be a drain on an already overused national health service, unlike some