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Debt in society
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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As the title indicates
Sometimes think are people ok? the worry, overheads, bills, subliminal peer pressure to conform
We are all guilty
What's your thoughts |
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Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase. |
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"Oh that reminds me, I need to pay the milkman this weekend  "
That bought back memories! When we were young and the milkman knocked for his money we all had to b dead quiet if mum had no money to pay him ! Seemed ages till he went away and could breath again lol x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How are we all guilty?"
Are you telling me you have never purchased something you didn't or want but on impulse?
Smart Phones would be one of the biggest examples out there |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh that reminds me, I need to pay the milkman this weekend
 those are rare!
We get milk delivered twice a week  "
I envy you
They don't exist where I live |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How are we all guilty?
Are you telling me you have never purchased something you didn't or want but on impulse?
Smart Phones would be one of the biggest examples out there"
Oh I thought you meant we are all guilty of the subliminal pressure etc.
Debt has always been a thing. I'm sure even the cavemen had some form of debt system. Give me some dinosaur meat and I'll pick nits out of your hair tomorrow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How are we all guilty?
Are you telling me you have never purchased something you didn't or want but on impulse?
Smart Phones would be one of the biggest examples out there"
I’ve never bought something in my life on impulse that’s put me into debt no |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh that reminds me, I need to pay the milkman this weekend
those are rare!
We get milk delivered twice a week
I envy you
They don't exist where I live"
Maybe there's a demand where you are that you could venture into
We could also have orange and apple juice delivered, and eggs
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh that reminds me, I need to pay the milkman this weekend
those are rare!
We get milk delivered twice a week
I envy you
They don't exist where I live
Maybe there's a demand where you are that you could venture into
We could also have orange and apple juice delivered, and eggs
"
I think my local tesco and waitrose has squashed all hope of that happening |
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My only debt is the finance on the new car I got recently but unless something changes I can comfortably afford it. Haven't had a credit card in years and as I never went to university I don't have any massed student debt either. I was usually skint through my 20's and did rack up a bit of credit card debt which I had to take out a loan to consolidate and pay off, but most of that was run up on car repairs which I needed so I could still work! I never buy things if I can't afford them, I'll just wait until I can save up for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Have Multiple credit cards but I always use them responsibly. I pay off in full at end of each month. I solely use them for the added consumer protection and to accrue various point and air miles. |
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
The current system is a debt trap designed on purpose.
Ask yourself how many people are actually debt free or possess only a small amount of debt?
Couple that with the sad fact that most people live from paycheck to paycheck and missing one literally spells disaster. This can't end well. |
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I think there's positive debt and negative debt.
Debt for a bigger purpose, education, mortgage, transport within your means: that's an investment into your future (leaving to one side the morality of charging for education).
The whole keeping up with the Joneses thing and the debt that that encourages is negative debt and should be discouraged, although relative poverty is certainly a concept, and this can't be disentangled from depressed wages, rising cost of living, and reduction of government services. The paycheque has to cover more and more when it's (in real terms) worth less and less. |
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Its defo a debt society! Everyone wants stuff and wants it now! But that's fine I remember back when I first married in 1974 we had hand me downs a carpet square in middle of room! Was heaven when we got our first wall to wall carpet! Nowadays newly weds have a house and everything in it new from start! X |
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"Its defo a debt society! Everyone wants stuff and wants it now! But that's fine I remember back when I first married in 1974 we had hand me downs a carpet square in middle of room! Was heaven when we got our first wall to wall carpet! Nowadays newly weds have a house and everything in it new from start! X"
The only reason almost everything of mine was new when I left home, is that it was a damn sight cheaper than shipping it from Australia
It was bottom of the range Ikea/ Wilko type stuff. I got my first real winter coats on clearance. I still use some of that stuff eleven years later. It's fine, just a bit tatty (and some of the coats are still in brilliant nick) |
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"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase."
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/ |
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"Its defo a debt society! Everyone wants stuff and wants it now! But that's fine I remember back when I first married in 1974 we had hand me downs a carpet square in middle of room! Was heaven when we got our first wall to wall carpet! Nowadays newly weds have a house and everything in it new from start! X
The only reason almost everything of mine was new when I left home, is that it was a damn sight cheaper than shipping it from Australia
It was bottom of the range Ikea/ Wilko type stuff. I got my first real winter coats on clearance. I still use some of that stuff eleven years later. It's fine, just a bit tatty (and some of the coats are still in brilliant nick)"
Noubt wrong with Wilkos agreed |
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Only debt I have is a small mortgage. I’m terrified of getting into debt so won’t take any form of credit.
I have seen so many people get into debt and suffer years of paying money back to creditors.
Gambling and easy credit are a scourge on society. It makes me feel very sad and outraged that people have no choice but to live that way. Call me an SJW but I feel very strongly about people being put in that position. |
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"Only debt I have is a small mortgage. I’m terrified of getting into debt so won’t take any form of credit.
I have seen so many people get into debt and suffer years of paying money back to creditors.
Gambling and easy credit are a scourge on society. It makes me feel very sad and outraged that people have no choice but to live that way. Call me an SJW but I feel very strongly about people being put in that position. "
Come sit with me. I'm definitely a social justice warrior. Social justice: it's good and we need to fight for it. (Internet culture is weird) |
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"We live in a capitalist society, debt is inevitable. People are encouraged to consume beyond their means. If you haven't got money in this society your stuffed pritty much. "
Oh quite.
Burn it down  Encourage a different way of living. |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"The current system is a debt trap designed on purpose.
Ask yourself how many people are actually debt free or possess only a small amount of debt?
Couple that with the sad fact that most people live from paycheck to paycheck and missing one literally spells disaster. This can't end well."
Just an aside.... I've not thought about wages as a pay cheque in years! Back in the day it used to actually be a cheque..... with what seemed like forever between getting it and actually getting the money in the bank. |
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"Only debt I have is a small mortgage. I’m terrified of getting into debt so won’t take any form of credit.
I have seen so many people get into debt and suffer years of paying money back to creditors.
Gambling and easy credit are a scourge on society. It makes me feel very sad and outraged that people have no choice but to live that way. Call me an SJW but I feel very strongly about people being put in that position.
Come sit with me. I'm definitely a social justice warrior. Social justice: it's good and we need to fight for it. (Internet culture is weird)"
We do snowflakery be dammed!
|
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"Only debt I have is a small mortgage. I’m terrified of getting into debt so won’t take any form of credit.
I have seen so many people get into debt and suffer years of paying money back to creditors.
Gambling and easy credit are a scourge on society. It makes me feel very sad and outraged that people have no choice but to live that way. Call me an SJW but I feel very strongly about people being put in that position.
Come sit with me. I'm definitely a social justice warrior. Social justice: it's good and we need to fight for it. (Internet culture is weird)
We do snowflakery be dammed!
"
I'm quite happy being a snowflake given the alternative. |
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
"The current system is a debt trap designed on purpose.
Ask yourself how many people are actually debt free or possess only a small amount of debt?
Couple that with the sad fact that most people live from paycheck to paycheck and missing one literally spells disaster. This can't end well.
Just an aside.... I've not thought about wages as a pay cheque in years! Back in the day it used to actually be a cheque..... with what seemed like forever between getting it and actually getting the money in the bank."
Figure of expression |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
"The current system is a debt trap designed on purpose.
Ask yourself how many people are actually debt free or possess only a small amount of debt?
Couple that with the sad fact that most people live from paycheck to paycheck and missing one literally spells disaster. This can't end well.
Just an aside.... I've not thought about wages as a pay cheque in years! Back in the day it used to actually be a cheque..... with what seemed like forever between getting it and actually getting the money in the bank.
Figure of expression "
I get that.... just musing.... |
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"The current system is a debt trap designed on purpose.
Ask yourself how many people are actually debt free or possess only a small amount of debt?
Couple that with the sad fact that most people live from paycheck to paycheck and missing one literally spells disaster. This can't end well.
Just an aside.... I've not thought about wages as a pay cheque in years! Back in the day it used to actually be a cheque..... with what seemed like forever between getting it and actually getting the money in the bank."
I'm not sure I'm old enough to have ever received a cheque for my work
My first few jobs were paid in cash (not under the table, I got cash down to the nearest 5c, rounded up, and a home printed form for the Australian Taxation Office) and bank transfer after that. I've missed out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!"
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect. |
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect."
I can't comment on parenting now but when I was a kid... Yeah.
If I was a good girl Mum would take me to the second hand bookshop. 20c (about 10p) for so many series I adored.
Christmas I'd get more books, slightly yellowed and with other people's names in them, but that meant I got more books
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect."
I don't think it's just to do with someone's parenting. I suspect some parents don't want their children to be singled out by not having the latest must have toys or gadgets |
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect.
I don't think it's just to do with someone's parenting. I suspect some parents don't want their children to be singled out by not having the latest must have toys or gadgets "
It's definitely a balancing act. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Social media is partly to blame. People can instantly see what others have and want the same...now. "
Makes me cringe at Christmas when the saddo parents post pics of the massive piles of Christmas presents. Or their fancy new car or holiday etc. Easy to see who is showing off.  |
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There is good debt and bad debt:
Having a mortgage that costs less than rent is good.
Borrowing to buy a cash generating asset is good, borrowing to buy a depreciating asset not so good.
Borrowing to have a nicer car than you can really afford or need is bad. (Same for phone or any other expensive purchase).
Buying things more expensive than you can afford on credit card is worse.
Payday loans are the worst, after even brighthouse.
Borrowing for gambling... Don't even go there.
The real problem is loan products are more complicated than they first appear and few people ever really get educated on them despite pretty much everyone taking out loans at some point in their lives. Meanwhile the people selling loan products are educated about them and some will take advantage of the uneducated customer.
The only true rule of thumb is spend less than you earn and invest what you save. Only take out low interest loans, be mindful of the total cost of credit and ask yourself is that cost of credit worth the benefit of having the cash now rather than later.
If you spend more than you earn and you aren't being frivolous then that's a problem our society needs to fix and you have my sympathy. |
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By *akmatMan
over a year ago
Morecambe |
Really interesting read. Thanks OP.
I do think that debt is now being used as a lever for the majority of society. A degree costs 50k, that's before you get a mortgage.
This virus has highlighted (though no paper has made it headline news) that one basic wage isnt enough to run a household now. In order to open the economy, the schools had to open first. They've essentially become the nations babysitter. And as a teacher friend humourously pointed out, for similar money.
I'm totally with the social justice warriors on this one!  |
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I highly recommend the book "rich dad poor dad", it's not new advice or a get rich quick thing, but it is the best way of explaining sensible money management. I think for many people it would be LIFE CHANGING, especially teenagers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's fashionable to be in debt.
Everywhere you look you'll see ads for things out of your reach but available via credit.
Mobile phone contracts creeping up towards £100 a month with each release of the latest and greatest.
Betting shops on every corner and online/radio the temptation to spend what you haven't got is brainwashing.
People desire trinkets and things they don't really need and get in debt for it without blinking.
And it will only get worse once new taxation comes in to pay for covid.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Back 2007 sat ting at my desk, had a interesting conversation with a colleague, he said
"25k was the new 15k"
To me, back then my thoughts were 'that's insane'
Nowadays I think he was right
I own a couple of cars neither of them new but in good nick
As I drive down the m25 I'm constantly reminded of brand new.
In a check out queue ahead of me a 8 year old on a smart phone more expensive than mine with ear buds to match
This was the trigger point for this thread.
Where is this world going or my thought processes incorrect.
Are we conforming to pressures
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect."
I'm thinking more stroppy teenagers rather than kids, the PS5 and the new Xbox are going to be THE must have this Christmas and beyond and some badly raised kids will be having a tantrum about not getting one, especially when the social media shaming by their peers who did get one starts. There's no way my parents would have shelled out £500 on a console either, I was bloody lucky at 11 years old when I got a Megadrive and that was seen as expensive at the time. |
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"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase.
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/"
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same  |
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"
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same "
It's effectively an extra tax for those who couldn't afford Uni. It is about the best type of debt out there, if you don't earn enough you don't have to pay it off, it doesn't get taken into account when applying for other forms of credit and until recently had a low interest rate. Eventually inflation will devalue the debt to virtually nothing.
For those reasons you should never overpay student debt to clear it sooner. - check out Martin Lewis's advice for a better explanation than mine, his short version is take out as much as possible even if you don't need it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase.
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same "
the problem is you took on that debt.
you didnt have to go into further education did you.
you placed yourself in a position of stress and worry because you racked up that amount. but i bet you still had money for booze, going out often and other things which werent needed.
people (and student are good for this) think everything will fall into their lap. they go into further education for things like media studies because they want to be famous and rich, well the truth hits them when they find out how much they got to pay back and the job/career they thought they would get doesnt exist (sky sports turned them down and love island said they were ugly)
its poor life management and lack of discipline.
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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago
All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest |
"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect.
I'm thinking more stroppy teenagers rather than kids, the PS5 and the new Xbox are going to be THE must have this Christmas and beyond and some badly raised kids will be having a tantrum about not getting one, especially when the social media shaming by their peers who did get one starts. There's no way my parents would have shelled out £500 on a console either, I was bloody lucky at 11 years old when I got a Megadrive and that was seen as expensive at the time."
My brother and I had to go behind our parents back to get ours! (Megadrive A.K.A. Genesis). Pooled together our saved up lunch money. We threw away the receipt too in case they made us take it back |
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I know a woman who sells off the birthday and Christmas presents that relatives have bought her little daughter on Facebook selling pages which is shitty in my opinion, especially as it's not to pay the bills, more to pay for her latest tattoos and lip fillers  |
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"
Are we conforming to pressures
"
We are being sold our future happyness now, to be paid for later. It's a matter of personal perspective as to if a new car really makes you happy or is worth the price. I think not, many peoples spending habits appear to disagree (or they just don't think that much).
One BMW dealership said in an interview that 90% of their cars are sold through PCP plans or other forms of credit. Try and keep that in mind every time you see a new car, chances are they are paying an extra 3% for their happiness *
*BMW X3 PCP plan, 3% APR on £500 monthly payment, total cost £48k for a £45k car. And if you don't decide to buy it after 4 years at a residual value of £17594 then you crystallise the depreciation cost of £31k when you hand it back. Of course most people will just take out another £500 a month happiness plan.
So the cost of new car happiness? £3k for the debt £30k for asset depreciation... If I were in the market for one I would probably pay them £17k and be just as happy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect.
I don't think it's just to do with someone's parenting. I suspect some parents don't want their children to be singled out by not having the latest must have toys or gadgets "
Teaching kids that we back down to bullies is also bad parenting.
Just because others have something, does not mean they have to have it, espescially if the parents cannot afford it. That is called tough shit and life goes on. |
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"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase.
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same "
That must've been quite a while ago. The earning threshold now is £29k. And at that point the repayments are really low.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It's a difficult one, getting the balance right for young kids, educating them on the value of money
Always one step away of being the bitch mum or the arsehole dad
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"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase.
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same
the problem is you took on that debt.
you didnt have to go into further education did you.
you placed yourself in a position of stress and worry because you racked up that amount. but i bet you still had money for booze, going out often and other things which werent needed.
people (and student are good for this) think everything will fall into their lap. they go into further education for things like media studies because they want to be famous and rich, well the truth hits them when they find out how much they got to pay back and the job/career they thought they would get doesnt exist (sky sports turned them down and love island said they were ugly)
its poor life management and lack of discipline.
"
Err, no I didn't. I worked my arse off every summer, have never drank and didn't do drugs. Oddly I never thought I'd be rich and famous training to be a teacher and I haven't been proved wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Debt is encouraged. You can't get a university education at all or a tertiary education as an adult or buy a house without it unless you're very wealthy.
Credit cards are awful unless you use them responsibly or take out a zero percent one for a particular purchase.
Student debt isn't real debt though.
https://fullfact.org/education/student-debts-arent-really-debts/
So the £16500 I was in after my graduation wasn't real? Wish I'd known that whilst I severely struggled to pay it off on an annual starting salary of the same
the problem is you took on that debt.
you didnt have to go into further education did you.
you placed yourself in a position of stress and worry because you racked up that amount. but i bet you still had money for booze, going out often and other things which werent needed.
people (and student are good for this) think everything will fall into their lap. they go into further education for things like media studies because they want to be famous and rich, well the truth hits them when they find out how much they got to pay back and the job/career they thought they would get doesnt exist (sky sports turned them down and love island said they were ugly)
its poor life management and lack of discipline.
"
Sadly I think there's an element of personal prejudice in this response.
Society needs to invest in itself and its workforce, so whilst I agree were all to some degree responsible for our debts, its a ridiculous situation to be placing those we most need into that position. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Imagine how many parents are going to cripple themselves financially this Christmas because little Johnny will act like a spoiled brat if he doesn't get a new PS5 for £500 glad I don't have kids!
That has nothing to do with having kids and everything to do with someones parenting.
My kids are happy with poundland toys. I get them more because I can afford to, but they are always grateful for ANYTHING they get.
It is teaching them gratitude and respect.
I don't think it's just to do with someone's parenting. I suspect some parents don't want their children to be singled out by not having the latest must have toys or gadgets
Teaching kids that we back down to bullies is also bad parenting.
Just because others have something, does not mean they have to have it, espescially if the parents cannot afford it. That is called tough shit and life goes on."
I never mentioned bad parenting  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's a lot of overlapping issues involved here which muddies any discussion
Money the root of all evil however you want to view it"
The actual quote is 'the love of money is the root of all evil'- there's nothing wrong with money, it's a useful tool.
There seems to be a number of people on this thread that have an instinctive fear and/or dislike of debt, feel that you should only have things if you save first etc etc. Personally I see it differently. There absolutely can be problem debts, where a society is structured so that the poorest have the highest cost of borrowing, where wages don't cover living costs and in the case of addictive gambling etc. However, this is not the case of all debt.
If I work hard and borrow money to buy something I want, I am still working for it, still paying for it. I have simply made the choice that I am prepared to pay slightly more than I could for the pleasure of enjoying it now rather than waiting. There is nothing wrong with that at all unless my judgement is so poor I end up borrowing more than I can afford.
As is so often the case, we tend to blame the symptom rather than the cause. Debt is amoral, it is neither good or bad it simply is. What determines whether it is good or bad is the behaviour and actions of the person taking on the debt, not what it is incurred for.
If I want to pay for a lavish wedding on my credit card knowing I can pay it back over the next few years, is that a 'bad' debt? Should I save first if I want that wedding? What if my mum has a terminal illness and I want the wedding now so she can be there?
There is nothing wrong with debt, there is nothing new with wanting what others have, there is nothing new with the idea of borrowing now and paying back later. Anyone who thinks the issues are to do with society now or social media or whatever has no grasp of history. The only thing that's different now is that ordinary people have access to the kinds of services that at one time were only available to rich men - it really wasn't that long ago that a woman would not be able to borrow in her own name, certainly that's changed in my lifetime.
Can easy borrowing be abused? Sure it can but that doesn't make it wrong.
Did young people of 40 years ago have to wait till they could afford stuff, live in poverty for the first years of marriage? Sure they did, but imagining this is because they were somehow more virtuous than today's youngsters is nonsense. They were conforming to their societal pressures just the same as the youth of today are, the pressure have changed, young women are no longer expected to have settled down and began popping out kids while running around keeping house for their husband by the age of 21 any more, plus were those people brought up in today's world with today's options they would by and large make exactly the same choices that today's youngsters do.
Mr |
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Money is a useful tool, as you say. It's a question of how we value it. I think you're right that good/bad debt is an oversimplification and I'll own that: apologies.
And you're also right it's not a "kids these days" thing. It's the way regulations and expectations have changed, I would guess. In part we may need to resist this, but in part that's quite difficult to do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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good debt bad debt assets liabilities
the plastic is not there to help you.
You will remain poor should you continue to use credit/plastic overdrafts however you want to describe it to make your self feel better. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"good debt bad debt assets liabilities
the plastic is not there to help you.
You will remain poor should you continue to use credit/plastic overdrafts however you want to describe it to make your self feel better."
Again it depends how u use it. I spend a lot a month on plastic. It’s extremely good for me. There are no negatives to how I use my credit cards only positives |
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Going off at a slight tangent, I was in a poorer area of the city yesterday and the only cashpoint available was one charging 99p per transaction.
Given the location I found that both cynical and immoral.
Being poor is hard enough without being charged over the odds to access your own money. |
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"Going off at a slight tangent, I was in a poorer area of the city yesterday and the only cashpoint available was one charging 99p per transaction.
Given the location I found that both cynical and immoral.
Being poor is hard enough without being charged over the odds to access your own money."
Agreed. |
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"There's a lot of overlapping issues involved here which muddies any discussion
Money the root of all evil however you want to view it
The actual quote is 'the love of money is the root of all evil'- there's nothing wrong with money, it's a useful tool.
There seems to be a number of people on this thread that have an instinctive fear and/or dislike of debt, feel that you should only have things if you save first etc etc. Personally I see it differently. There absolutely can be problem debts, where a society is structured so that the poorest have the highest cost of borrowing, where wages don't cover living costs and in the case of addictive gambling etc. However, this is not the case of all debt.
If I work hard and borrow money to buy something I want, I am still working for it, still paying for it. I have simply made the choice that I am prepared to pay slightly more than I could for the pleasure of enjoying it now rather than waiting. There is nothing wrong with that at all unless my judgement is so poor I end up borrowing more than I can afford.
As is so often the case, we tend to blame the symptom rather than the cause. Debt is amoral, it is neither good or bad it simply is. What determines whether it is good or bad is the behaviour and actions of the person taking on the debt, not what it is incurred for.
If I want to pay for a lavish wedding on my credit card knowing I can pay it back over the next few years, is that a 'bad' debt? Should I save first if I want that wedding? What if my mum has a terminal illness and I want the wedding now so she can be there?
There is nothing wrong with debt, there is nothing new with wanting what others have, there is nothing new with the idea of borrowing now and paying back later. Anyone who thinks the issues are to do with society now or social media or whatever has no grasp of history. The only thing that's different now is that ordinary people have access to the kinds of services that at one time were only available to rich men - it really wasn't that long ago that a woman would not be able to borrow in her own name, certainly that's changed in my lifetime.
Can easy borrowing be abused? Sure it can but that doesn't make it wrong.
Did young people of 40 years ago have to wait till they could afford stuff, live in poverty for the first years of marriage? Sure they did, but imagining this is because they were somehow more virtuous than today's youngsters is nonsense. They were conforming to their societal pressures just the same as the youth of today are, the pressure have changed, young women are no longer expected to have settled down and began popping out kids while running around keeping house for their husband by the age of 21 any more, plus were those people brought up in today's world with today's options they would by and large make exactly the same choices that today's youngsters do.
Mr"
Very well put and i would add if buying now as in a sale you get it cheaper then the debt can work for you. Also remember if you put money in the bank to day in 10 years time you can buy less with it so cash can devalue. so it is a complex choice we make with savings and spending . |
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