FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Ageism on Fab
Ageism on Fab
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene. |
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Younger men blame their age for their lack of meets. Older men blame their age for their lack of meets. It's almost as if it is only men precisely the age of 37 and 3 months that are considered acceptable. |
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By *eonMan
over a year ago
Belfast |
I don’t think it’s ageism you’ve just got to respect that every member has their own preferences whether that’s age shape, size, sex, race. I’m 100% sure you’ll fit nicely into a lot of people’s criteria. Just work on getting them to notice you. |
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
Do you know for certain that the only reason you can't get a meet is because of your age? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You have an age filter yourself, so are those over 65 past it? The same question could be asked by a 66 year old to yourself.
The older you get the less people who are attracted to you, that’s just natural really.
Many people have age filters that will rule you out, many have age filters that won’t rule you out, focus on the latter!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
The 66 year olds are asking the same question about you. |
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I was disappointed to see yesterday, that a single guy local to me, has dropped his age to 56 on his profile. I’m sure he is 61, and his age before wasn’t hurting him as he is a regular club visitor, and has many friends and verifications to show he does very well in the scene. Possibly with the clubs being closed, he is struggling using Fab to attract attention? |
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It's easy to say oh it's my age when people can't get meets but the reality is that there's probably an underlying cause that isn't age related.
Pretend you're a woman and alter your search to looking for men in your area that are your age and be honest with yourself, would you choose you or the competition ?
It's tough but try to up your game
Good luck |
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"You have an age filter yourself, so are those over 65 past it? The same question could be asked by a 66 year old to yourself.
The older you get the less people who are attracted to you, that’s just natural really.
Many people have age filters that will rule you out, many have age filters that won’t rule you out, focus on the latter! "
Oh does he now ?
No sex no Granny's opinion..... pah! |
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"I was disappointed to see yesterday, that a single guy local to me, has dropped his age to 56 on his profile. I’m sure he is 61, and his age before wasn’t hurting him as he is a regular club visitor, and has many friends and verifications to show he does very well in the scene. Possibly with the clubs being closed, he is struggling using Fab to attract attention?"
I've seen so_eone on fab who's set his age to in his 30s. I'm pretty sure he was in his early 40s when I met him in a club many years ago. It also makes you laugh when people have profiles on more than one site but with vastly different ages. I understand changing your age slightly for privacy but to drastically do so just tells me I can't trust them to be honest about other things. It's also very rare for people to look 10 years younger than they really are so it isn't fooling anyone. |
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On the bright side op there are plenty of young women who only like older guys, I've seen women in their 20's who consider myself at 42 to be too young, so it's certainly not ageism it is merely personal preference and what so_eone is attracted to which cannot and should not be defined by anyone else but the individual. Focus on those who's preference you fit and fit yours, make every effort to strike up a winning conversation with them and don't get disheartened by the knock backs....new people join every day. |
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We certainly have way fewer people wanting to meet us than 3 or 4 years ago and that will drop again at the end of the month when I'll be 64.
People in general want to have sex with young people, even the older ones lol. There are a few who genuinely prefer older of course but they are very rare.
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For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
"
Yep |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
"
Did you find you got different/ more messages/ forum replies when you had profile pics over the years? In particular the one with Colin? Serious question. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Pipe and slippers at 54? 
There's people whove completed ironman events in their 80's. Self fulfilling prophecy?
Its just life, not everything is catered for just me. |
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
Did you find you got different/ more messages/ forum replies when you had profile pics over the years? In particular the one with Colin? Serious question. "
No. I just unhide my profile and in they flood.
I did get messages about Colin though .... He was a young chick so maybe that was ageism too  |
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We have noticed that a lot of ladies have a max age of 50, and as Mr PC is 51 we can't message them. Although at times it's a little frustrating, you do have to remember that everyone has a preference, and we must respect that. I see the same on my single account, looking for ladies, at 44 I'm often too old for them although they are a similar age to me! Maybe the ladies under our preferred age of 30+ get frustrated too that they can't message? It's just one of those things, plenty of folk looking for different things, and that's part of the fun right! Miss PC x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Just to say I'm sure I will get meets when the time is right.
I also have age filters because when I'm officially a pensioner I wont be on here, my choice.
I actually know I'm a silly old fart lol.
This thread is not about me at all it's just people's views in general, I love the site tbh.
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By *tephanjMan
over a year ago
Kettering |
I don't think as a whole there is any ageism on here, obviously there are some who are but it's there choice. I'm 65 very soon 66 when I can officially retire to get state pension, but I'm going to carry on working and gabbing age is but a number  |
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Personally I'm the opposite, and would go for a more mature guy over a younger one any day of the week...but that's more about having things in common to talk about.
It also works the other way...I've been on this scene since I was 22, and would regularly be told that I was too young for people. I just search out the people with whom there is mutual attraction. |
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"I was disappointed to see yesterday, that a single guy local to me, has dropped his age to 56 on his profile. I’m sure he is 61, and his age before wasn’t hurting him as he is a regular club visitor, and has many friends and verifications to show he does very well in the scene. Possibly with the clubs being closed, he is struggling using Fab to attract attention?
I've seen so_eone on fab who's set his age to in his 30s. I'm pretty sure he was in his early 40s when I met him in a club many years ago. It also makes you laugh when people have profiles on more than one site but with vastly different ages. I understand changing your age slightly for privacy but to drastically do so just tells me I can't trust them to be honest about other things. It's also very rare for people to look 10 years younger than they really are so it isn't fooling anyone. "
There’s a couple I saw in a club, and I recognised a tattoo on her which was familiar. It was when I saw them post in various threads that I realised who they were, and yes, they are a good deal older than their profile suggests. There was also the time I was invited to a woman’s house for a social. At the time she purported to be 51, but when she opened her door to me I genuinely almost asked if her daughter was in! It transpired she was 65.......  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just to say I'm sure I will get meets when the time is right.
I also have age filters because when I'm officially a pensioner I wont be on here, my choice.
I actually know I'm a silly old fart lol.
This thread is not about me at all it's just people's views in general, I love the site tbh.
"
You're not silly or old.
I'm not attracted to Tom Hardy who is in my Fab age range. Roger Taylor is about 20 years older than my Fab age range but I think he's hot as fuck!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Society is ageist. This is at most a frighteningly trivial example of this."
This I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting anyone under mid 30's. I'd feel like I was exploiting people, daft as it sounds.
Life isn't about everything being aligned to us as individuals. And that's not because we're always subject to an ism...sometimes we simply can't have what we want? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
Did you find you got different/ more messages/ forum replies when you had profile pics over the years? In particular the one with Colin? Serious question.
No. I just unhide my profile and in they flood.
I did get messages about Colin though .... He was a young chick so maybe that was ageism too "
Keep your profile hidden. No-one needs that kind of rampant adulation on a Sunday morning.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Younger men blame their age for their lack of meets. Older men blame their age for their lack of meets. It's almost as if it is only men precisely the age of 37 and 3 months that are considered acceptable. "
There must be some truth in this as I got my first meet on here when I was 37 and nothing since turning 38  |
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"Younger men blame their age for their lack of meets. Older men blame their age for their lack of meets. It's almost as if it is only men precisely the age of 37 and 3 months that are considered acceptable.
There must be some truth in this as I got my first meet on here when I was 37 and nothing since turning 38 "
See |
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Wow, people making choices about whom to have sex with based on their actual personal preferences?! How awful! Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to express any preferences at all so membership of sites like this can be reduced to chucking keys in a huge bucket and all being delighted with what we get out at random. lol
Come on - this site is about finding what appeals to us all and we all have different preferences. What's wrong with that? We know we certainly won't appeal to lots of people here for all sorts of reasons but does that bother us? No. In the same way lots of people here aren't of interest to us but that doesn't mean they're awful unpleasant people. It just means they're not what we're looking for. When we go out for a meal we go where we fancy, not somewhere which serves food we don't want just to make them happy.
Anyway, what bothers us isn't choices or preferences, it's those people who blatantly lie about stuff in order to mislead others. Only this morning we had a message from a guy whose profile stated he was bi-curious. We replied politely stating we're only looking for straight guy. His response was to say his profile was wrong, he was 100% straight and he'd corrected it. Easy mistake I guess... Only thing was that his verifications contained a long list of bi-experiences. Not so much a mistake as a pack of lies then, in order to get a meeting under false pretences. Nice eh!
Basically people can and do lie about all sorts of stuff including their age and status. They shouldn't but they do and this is a far more serious problem than members expressing preferences which they're perfectly entitled to. We'd rather be rejected a 1000 times by honest people than be deceived once by so_eone who lied to get their way. The only meetings worth having are those where the parties involved have been honest about what they want and who they are. That's why it pays to be cautious on sites such as this.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
Give it another 10 years mate.
Totally invisible and enduring enforced involuntary celibacy.
But I'm not bitter.
Much |
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There is no point in lying about your age. You have got there with all the good and bad experiences. Some people may find you interesting some won't as in normal life not everyone is going to want to spend time getting to know you. That can be there lose as long as you are strong in yourself. You still have your memories. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I expect to be out of many peoples age range
It's just another preference
I think we tend to impose how feel feel about ourselves and often assume that's why people won't meet us
"She won't meet me because syndrome..."
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You're a silly old fart OP who feels sorry for himself and wants to find something to blame for his lack of success.
Age hasn't hampered me and I was your age when I joined this site.
Effort in, rewards out.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've encountered guys who complain I don't meet men their age and say I'm missing out or being unfair and yet they won't even meet women their own age. That one makes me laugh. "
For just £5 a month you can have everything you sexually desire and even better... on your own terms
Did you not know that? |
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By *lipy123TV/TS
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Back to the queastion.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
Silly old fart. Its only you who put limits on yourself, You are as old as you feel in your head. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
Your profile text would put me right off regardless of your age. |
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By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
I rejoined Fabs when I was 49 and I am now 52 I struggle to get meets by just messaging as I am not the most photogenic and I believe a lot of people don’t believe single guys that can’t accommodate no matter how genuine the reasons are.My way round it was too change my mindset I no longer think too much that I haven’t had a meet instead I attend socials , I go to a club and a spa.Yes it can be harder as you get older but by getting out and meeting people you have a better chance of breaking down any barriers than you would by sending messages and trying to take a good selfie picture for your profile. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I get moaned at because I have a very limited age range. Won’t go much younger and 50 is my limit as older. I know what I want and what I’m attracted to. It’s not ageism |
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I’m surprised this site doesn’t ban males over the age of 40 .
According to google fabswingers stats
79% of woman on fab use the age block
60% is at 50 years old
Whilst under 50 makes up most
Only 8% have no age block
There was one couple on here last year that were actually looking fo a guy over 50
But they have not logged in this year
And believe it or not there is swinging clubs now with not just a minimum age limit but also a maximum. |
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"I’m surprised this site doesn’t ban males over the age of 40 .
According to google fabswingers stats
79% of woman on fab use the age block
60% is at 50 years old
Whilst under 50 makes up most
Only 8% have no age block
There was one couple on here last year that were actually looking fo a guy over 50
But they have not logged in this year
And believe it or not there is swinging clubs now with not just a minimum age limit but also a maximum. "
Claptrap |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene.
Your profile text would put me right off regardless of your age. "
Same |
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"Younger men blame their age for their lack of meets. Older men blame their age for their lack of meets. It's almost as if it is only men precisely the age of 37 and 3 months that are considered acceptable. "
Darn it. Still got to wait then  |
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene.
Your profile text would put me right off regardless of your age. "
He didn't ask for a critique of his profile.
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By *y93Man
over a year ago
London |
personally I have met many older guys out on club and socials, I actually thought they rather more successful on the scene in attracting fun people than many younger guys. Get yourself to clubs and socials and see. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally take fab with a pinch of salt.. get to the clubs meet people its the best way, and go regularly things will happen....
"You have to put somthing in, to get somthing out" LOL.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
Would you want to shag somone old enough to be your mother or grandmother? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s simply personal choice.
We are 61 and 58 and it’s not been a barrier albeit we’re a quirky couple.
We used to get approached by a lot of people in their 20’s. Flattering but not for us. I wouldn’t say it’s ageism though, we prefer more mature.
V |
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"Younger men blame their age for their lack of meets. Older men blame their age for their lack of meets. It's almost as if it is only men precisely the age of 37 and 3 months that are considered acceptable. "
I best keep that month as free as possible then! |
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene.
Would you want to shag somone old enough to be your mother or grandmother? "
Yes  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"ive got age filters on and still get messages out of age range "
You still will unless you go to message filters and click on “block anyone out of your age range”. They then won’t be able to message you x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why middle aged guys 'go bi'.
The older you get there maybe less interest because of age. But there's always other factors in play (personality, looking for sexually/physically). I have age filters but don't block messaging by age because you never know. Do a search and tick the box for 'I'm the age they're looking for' - widen the search radius if need be. |
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"Just to say I'm sure I will get meets when the time is right.
I also have age filters because when I'm officially a pensioner I wont be on here, my choice.
I actually know I'm a silly old fart lol.
This thread is not about me at all it's just people's views in general, I love the site tbh.
You're not silly or old.
I'm not attracted to Tom Hardy who is in my Fab age range. Roger Taylor is about 20 years older than my Fab age range but I think he's hot as fuck! "
Is that Roger Taylor, Queen, or Roger Taylor of Duran Duran? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Firstly this is not a whine or criticism aimed at anyone just observation, based on my experience.
At 54 it would seem to many I'm past it ready for the pipe and slippers and soon care home.
Does any other mature or older males/females/couples feel the same ? Or am I simply being a silly old fart ?
I'm genuinely interested in views by people both older and younger involved in the swinging scene."
I wouldn’t worry about it. MrsA got a message today on her singles profile referring to her as an ‘older woman’... she’s 35
Made me laugh haha |
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We don't want to play with people as young as our son, nor as old as our fathers/mothers. Hence our age range. We might tinkle round the edges, but we would decline people aged, say 20 as well as people aged, say 60. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a tough one even though we are in out fifties we still prefer younger guys now, have played with guys similar age to us and most seem to have problems either getting it up or keeping it up unless they pop the little blue pill,. Just seems a much better time with guys mid 30s to mid 40s hence now our preference |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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For the record Op , I was invited to a 70th birthday during the summer... I didn’t want to go because I felt that it would be a bunch of old people in walkers and talking about their medical alignments.....
Boy was I wrong , that was the most fun I had in a long time.... All the women looked great , everyone talked and didn’t look at their phones...
I believe if you contact people who you fit into their age range you will have much more success.... |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
Of course, people have preferences and nobody should feel the need to apologise or even explain their preferences. Personally, I have never been "rejected" based on my age and I would not reject a fit and confident 65 year old for example.
For me the clue is more in a profile - if a profile sounds a bit negative, or is focused on one particular (perceived) shortfall... to me that would be the turn off.
Just like preferences are ok, we should post with confidence about who we are and what we are looking for. Just my view... |
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"I’m surprised this site doesn’t ban males over the age of 40 .
According to google fabswingers stats
79% of woman on fab use the age block
60% is at 50 years old
Whilst under 50 makes up most
Only 8% have no age block
There was one couple on here last year that were actually looking fo a guy over 50
But they have not logged in this year
And believe it or not there is swinging clubs now with not just a minimum age limit but also a maximum. "
Why would they? We've met males over 40 here and we've also rejected loads of younger models. |
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
"
You're clearly a nice guy but your problem comes down to numbers. Females and couples here get bombarded with messages from all sorts of guys, most of whom aren't at all what they've asked for. We don't come here much now but even We can't reply to all of these so we wind up just ignoring those which don't match what we've asked for. It's nothing personal, just numbers and it works both ways. |
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"On the bright side op there are plenty of young women who only like older guys, I've seen women in their 20's who consider myself at 42 to be too young, so it's certainly not ageism it is merely personal preference and what so_eone is attracted to which cannot and should not be defined by anyone else but the individual. Focus on those who's preference you fit and fit yours, make every effort to strike up a winning conversation with them and don't get disheartened by the knock backs....new people join every day."
Excellent advice which far too many guys ignore and that's why they have a 99% failure rate. |
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By *lan157Man
over a year ago
a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex |
"I was disappointed to see yesterday, that a single guy local to me, has dropped his age to 56 on his profile. I’m sure he is 61, and his age before wasn’t hurting him as he is a regular club visitor, and has many friends and verifications to show he does very well in the scene. Possibly with the clubs being closed, he is struggling using Fab to attract attention?"
If you want to know why don't you ask him? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I realise my age means im no longer in peoples searches or I'm older than those they seek .
I don't let it bother me for one second . I am co fident and happy in who i am |
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Whilst age is an issue it's also an issue for young guys. But there's still plenty within each age range I'd say.
I'd be looking at your profile and other reasons you may find it difficult. 3 pics, all dick pics, not particularly flattering. Also you cant host which you have a fair reason for but it still reduces your options. |
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"You have an age filter yourself, so are those over 65 past it? The same question could be asked by a 66 year old to yourself.
The older you get the less people who are attracted to you, that’s just natural really.
Many people have age filters that will rule you out, many have age filters that won’t rule you out, focus on the latter! "
This! |
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"On the bright side op there are plenty of young women who only like older guys, I've seen women in their 20's who consider myself at 42 to be too young, so it's certainly not ageism it is merely personal preference and what so_eone is attracted to which cannot and should not be defined by anyone else but the individual. Focus on those who's preference you fit and fit yours, make every effort to strike up a winning conversation with them and don't get disheartened by the knock backs....new people join every day.
Excellent advice which far too many guys ignore and that's why they have a 99% failure rate."
Well you are a very unique couple |
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"For the record, my Granny opinion is this.....
FAB is not ageist. Society is ageist.
I watch men slavering over other women because they want to fuck them and not me......
I don't bleat about what I can't alter and I don't believe they should fuck a 65 year old woman when I'm older and baggier than their own mothers and the wiles , wisdoms and willie knowledge of older women are lost on them.
It does mean that many won't even acknowledge I exist in a forum or at a social. It's understandable that they are looking for common ground. It's not always a shag they want.
"
I'm in the 60s group now granny. Thankful to open my eyes and get to the loo under my own steam.
Prefer a cuppa Rosie Lee and a Blue Ribbon to a shag these days. |
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