FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > benefit changes for under 25s
benefit changes for under 25s
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Doesn't really apply to me, as I'm 26 and have always worked or been I'm education. However, I'm wondering what it's all about. Am I right in thinking our friend Mr Cameron wants to cut out ALL housing benefit for under 25s? Now I'm not into supporting scroungers etc, but say a person of 23 lost their job, was laid off for example, and their parents booted them out. What does that person then do? Would they have to go and live in, say. A salvation army hostel or the like? What about couples under 25 who already have kids and are claiming benefits? I'm just curious as to how it's going to work. " you actually have missed one word... Those who have moved out of home "Voluntarily"... if you can afford to move out.... Cool.. but it is as they said yesterday... if I was working... I would have to save up and rent... I don't see why unless there is some urgent need that someone move out and go straight onto housing benefit... there are parts of the welfare reforms I do agree with....for example, A cap on the amount that can be got, there are parts of it I don't agree with, the potential to have it "region-related"...... I see the arguement behind it..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why don't the government spend as much time trying to close the tax loopholes as they seem to spend trying to alienate the poor " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"...some of these new changes will be hard for a few, but I must admit i did find myself nodding my head to the paper as I read it thismorning. Capping the amount of children you can claim child benefit for .... YES! I could only afford one child so that's all I had. Getting people on JSA to do community based work - YES. They'll aheva sense of purpose, keep in the swing of working hours, be less likely to suffer from depression and other illnessess associated with not exercising and thier bills will be lower cos they won't be at home all day using electricity! Encouraging people on Incapacity to get well and get back to work - YES. Because then there'll be more in the pot for the people who really need it." iv got a better idea,why dont our goverment stop giving our fucking money away to countrys who piss themselfs everytime we pay them,who gives england money? nobody we have to borrow it and pay the fucker back. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"iv got a better idea,why dont our goverment stop giving our fucking money away to countrys who piss themselfs everytime we pay them,who gives england money? nobody we have to borrow it and pay the fucker back. "ahem.... you might want to read about what happened to the UK in 1976... when they had to borrow money from the IMF when the UK was in the shits...... and in order get that loan the IMF made the UK cut public expenditure.... sound very familiar to a country starting with "g".... 
just as well the IMF didn't have your attitude back then..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"okay sam... rather than repeat that... can I ask which of the proposals they made do you agree or disagree with... like I said, there are some i have issues with and some I don't.... do you have any issues with the ones I posted up.... " I do actually and one of the reasons is it will actually cost more to implement them than they save - as we are already seeing drom the lastest borrowing figures | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Some young people dont want to live with their parents, because they are bullied and abused. Their lives can be a living hell. They can be driven to suicide because of it. Or they would rather live on the streets. Also you dont mind paying for your kids till they are 18, but you may not always have enough money to be able to keep giving them money, for one reason or another." Then if they are in that situation they go to the police/authorities and get placed in care. Cost wise well till 18 you will get benefits for a child or tax credits if poorly paid. By 18 a child can sign on. There is an alternative though and that's to get a job and pay your way rather than expect the state to pay for you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. " Are you suggesting we put under 25's up chimneys? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work" well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. " They starved / were expolited / died /went into work houses / turned to prostituition take your pick - if they were lucky they had family to look after them | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole...." So you are happy to pay more taxes for these compulsory volunteers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. Are you suggesting we put under 25's up chimneys? "That's one way no i'm just saying that previous generations never had hand outs yet they survived. I know we are in a different era now but people stayed at home until they got married. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Some young people dont want to live with their parents, because they are bullied and abused. Their lives can be a living hell. They can be driven to suicide because of it. Or they would rather live on the streets. Also you dont mind paying for your kids till they are 18, but you may not always have enough money to be able to keep giving them money, for one reason or another. Then if they are in that situation they go to the police/authorities and get placed in care. Cost wise well till 18 you will get benefits for a child or tax credits if poorly paid. By 18 a child can sign on. There is an alternative though and that's to get a job and pay your way rather than expect the state to pay for you." Its not much fun for kids being in care either though. There will never be enough jobs for everyone because the world is so overpopulated. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
So, yes I support benefit reform. I do think some innocent people will get caught in their net and that is a shame. However it needs to be done so that the next generations of our society will live in a world where you plan moving out, having kids and you work to pay for all of this - or you just DON'T HAVE IT! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"but again the question is "what would you do" because the current system aint working.... can I put down a link.... you can see all the 17 proposals here.... like i said.. I agree with some and dont with others..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/25/david-cameron-wants-further-welfare-cuts and a lot of them are not controversial, which is why you don't see the labour party yesterday actually argueing against them... for example.... 7 Requiring benefit claimants to gain basic literacy and numeracy skills, and to prepare CVs in return for receiving jobseeker's allowance. any issue with that? " No, but then I should have thought that people leaving school ought already be able to read and write..... " 8 Requiring anyone on jobseeker's allowance to undertake full-time community work such as tidying up a local park. Cameron said: "In Australia, robust, rigorous activity such as 'work for the dole' is standard after just six months." again... no problems??? " Absolutely. Why would you pay anyone to do any manual labour when you can get a dolite to do it for you for JSA? What would be next? Bin Men? Street Cleaners? Night Workers at Tesco? Not only that, but before I moved up here I found it fairly easy to get two or three weeks work every couple of months, it's just that you could not string it together..... I didn't have steady work for 18 months, but never spent more than 8 weeks or so out of work at any one time..... " 9 Requiring anyone on employment support allowance to improve their medical condition in return for benefits, for example, taking free physiotherapy if suffering from a bad back. again.. I don't see an issue with that.. " Agreed, but then I would suspect that if the individual had a real problem and access to treatment that would cure them then they would not need to be forced to not suffer pain. If they intend it to stop people from swinging the lead then all the changes that have been made to Invalidity Benefits have been wasted and for naught..... " 12 Allowing higher-level benefits for those who have contributed tax and national insurance for many years. Cameron said: "Today we treat the man who's never worked in the same way as the guy who's worked 20 years in the local car plant, lost his job and now needs the safety net." " Absolutely anti this, JSA is a safety net. In fact, if you start to say that thise who have worked get a higher level of benefits tthan those who have not, you are entrenching the idea that you can just claim benefits without needing to work...... " 13 Banning school leavers from going straight on to benefit. " Again, completely disagree with this. If you live in an area where there is no work and no aprenticeships then you have no choice but to sign on. In fact, in order to get your NICs Class 1 stamp, you need to sign on. Specificaly, in these days when there are so many young people out of work and where there is so little prospect of things picking up for them that would be an entirely insidious move...... " 14 Preventing the payment of non-contributory benefits to those people who don't live in the country. " Erm, if you don't live in the country, you can't get to the dwp to make the claim. In terms of state pension for non dom's, they have worked and paid NICs for it, they ought to get the pension. " 15 Paying more welfare benefits in kind, such as free school meals, as opposed to cash. " A bit of a moot point realy as I am not sure what kind of benefits this would affect. I would object quite strenuously to the idea of food stamps rather than money payments, I can't buy a train or bus ticket to get to a job interview with food stamps, for example..... A someone has mentioned previously, the effort ought to be put into making people pay the tax that they ought to. I like Jimmy Carr, but (having just seen him talk about all the cars he's had whilst watching top gear) how many thousands has he gotten out of paying? How many millions have been avoided by people like Cameron, Clegg and Osbourne (and all the rest of the Tory Front Bench) by passing around their assets offshore? It's easy to attack the poor, we can't be arsed to shout about it because no one listens when we do......... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just imagine for a moment the welfare system didn't exist and never had.... where would these young people be? Would they all be out on the streets? Or would most be living at home. Would most be supported by their family in one way or another? Isn't that what families are meant to do? Yet because we have a welfare system, so many people get so shocked at the mere suggestion that families should look after their own in the first instance and the system be there for the people who don't have that support to fall back on." This is how most 3rd world countries opertate - I can see which direction this country is moving in | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just imagine for a moment the welfare system didn't exist and never had.... where would these young people be? Would they all be out on the streets? Or would most be living at home. Would most be supported by their family in one way or another? Isn't that what families are meant to do? Yet because we have a welfare system, so many people get so shocked at the mere suggestion that families should look after their own in the first instance and the system be there for the people who don't have that support to fall back on. This is how most 3rd world countries opertate - I can see which direction this country is moving in" Did you go to RADA? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just imagine for a moment the welfare system didn't exist and never had.... where would these young people be? Would they all be out on the streets? Or would most be living at home. Would most be supported by their family in one way or another? Isn't that what families are meant to do? Yet because we have a welfare system, so many people get so shocked at the mere suggestion that families should look after their own in the first instance and the system be there for the people who don't have that support to fall back on. This is how most 3rd world countries opertate - I can see which direction this country is moving in Did you go to RADA?" Nope - do you wear blinkers | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. They starved / were expolited / died /went into work houses / turned to prostituition take your pick - if they were lucky they had family to look after them" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole...." That would cost quite a lot to implement, you'd still be paying benefits to these people on top of all the costs of giving them training and equipment. They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just imagine for a moment the welfare system didn't exist and never had.... where would these young people be? Would they all be out on the streets? Or would most be living at home. Would most be supported by their family in one way or another? Isn't that what families are meant to do? Yet because we have a welfare system, so many people get so shocked at the mere suggestion that families should look after their own in the first instance and the system be there for the people who don't have that support to fall back on. This is how most 3rd world countries opertate - I can see which direction this country is moving in Did you go to RADA? Nope - do you wear blinkers" Of course I do... can't you tell. So pray tell, what is the grounding to support the ideal that in the first instance it is the states resonsibility to look after the housing needs (or rather desires) of young people and the family gets a free pass? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. " People had large families (my Old man was one of 12, he was the last, born in '42) to send them out to work at 14 or so..... The kids shared beds, shared clothing, died of TB and Rickets, suffered malnutrition had outside toilets or pissed and shit in a bucket at night.... 3 or 4 generations lived in the same house (of course, the council houses were regulated to make them large enough to allow this, unlike the rabbit hutches built these days)..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As I read elsewhere all this is a cunning conservative plan to increase the availability of cheap rentboys "lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They starved / were expolited / died /went into work houses / turned to prostituition take your pick - if they were lucky they had family to look after them" My Grandparents were both from Southwark. My Grandad and his brother were orphaned and both spent some time in a work house before being sent to be raised by nuns. My great uncle became a Catholic priest (I was told years later that he was virtually coerced into it) and my Grandad was sent to work for an undertaker(very Oliver Twist) where his life was made a misery for some years. My Nan had 3 sisters die of disease and her family survived by a mixture of working,pawning her dad's suit on a Monday morning and frequent visits from 'Uncle'(a money lender) The truth is that the 5 great evils in Beveridge's report have never really gone away and although people can and do take the piss out of the welfare system does anyone really want to go back to the days before it existed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just imagine for a moment the welfare system didn't exist and never had.... where would these young people be? Would they all be out on the streets? Or would most be living at home. Would most be supported by their family in one way or another? Isn't that what families are meant to do? Yet because we have a welfare system, so many people get so shocked at the mere suggestion that families should look after their own in the first instance and the system be there for the people who don't have that support to fall back on. This is how most 3rd world countries opertate - I can see which direction this country is moving in Did you go to RADA? Nope - do you wear blinkers Of course I do... can't you tell. So pray tell, what is the grounding to support the ideal that in the first instance it is the states resonsibility to look after the housing needs (or rather desires) of young people and the family gets a free pass?" Did i say it did - society will decide - thats why we have elections - but you only have to look at Britain before the welfare state was introduced which largely mirrored third world countries now - where if you fell on hard time you relied on family or charity or just went without food and healthcare - we would all hope never to return to those days - but for those people in genuine need who are affected by welfare reforms it certainly would feel that way | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. " well there are only 168hrs in a week now... if for example all you are asking people to is lets say 20hr/week to get your benefit money... I really don't see it would make that much difference in then finding a job..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am one of the few people who agree with the cuts, and yes some of them have or will affect me (such as working tax credits, which are a farce). The simple fact is that certain people have had it good for too long. Take an example of our broken underclass: I have a family member who is just a teenager and is the 'proud' mother of two kids already...and pregnant with her third! She doesn't work and her boyfriend is a scumbag who doesn't work and stole from my parents when he attended their wedding anniversary party at their house in May. She also smoked whilst pregnant (which isn't relevant but it adds to show her uncaring character). Between herself, her boyfriend and two kids (soon to be three), they earn more in benefits than my boyfriend and I put together - I work full time and he has a student loan. How is that fair?! I cannot afford to have children so I don't. She can't afford to have children, but she does AND gets more than I earn working as a free handout. Something is wrong with this country if this is our way of life. For too long the work shy have been rewarded. For too long people who do not financially plan for a family have been rewarded. For too long there has been the opportunity for the young to move out of their family unit and have their rent fully paid...they don't need to work to pay their bills, someone else will do it for them. How anyone can justify this, I do not know.
So, yes I support benefit reform. I do think some innocent people will get caught in their net and that is a shame. However it needs to be done so that the next generations of our society will live in a world where you plan moving out, having kids and you work to pay for all of this - or you just DON'T HAVE IT!"very well said! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is a long thread and I haven't read it all - but I just want to make a point regarding Housing Benefit, and please forgive me if it's already been made. Correct me if I'm wrong 9as I'm sure you will), but if an amount of HB is paid to a claimant, surely this does NOT go into their pockets but into the pockets of their landlord? So if a claimant is receiving a large amount of HB, surely this must mean that the landlord is charging a very high rent? So the tax payers' money is not going to the claimant - rather, it's going to line the pockets of (probably) already wealthy landlords! The problem here is the ridiculously over-inflated property rental market. Or have I got this wrong?" if the claimant is in a private rented house, then the money gets paid direct to them, and then they pay the landlord | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is a long thread and I haven't read it all - but I just want to make a point regarding Housing Benefit, and please forgive me if it's already been made. Correct me if I'm wrong 9as I'm sure you will), but if an amount of HB is paid to a claimant, surely this does NOT go into their pockets but into the pockets of their landlord? So if a claimant is receiving a large amount of HB, surely this must mean that the landlord is charging a very high rent? So the tax payers' money is not going to the claimant - rather, it's going to line the pockets of (probably) already wealthy landlords! The problem here is the ridiculously over-inflated property rental market. Or have I got this wrong? if the claimant is in a private rented house, then the money gets paid direct to them, and then they pay the landlord" Apparently, i only found out this the other day, anyone who is in reciept of housing beneifit gets a choice of having it paid to their landlord/council or straight to themselves | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. well there are only 168hrs in a week now... if for example all you are asking people to is lets say 20hr/week to get your benefit money... I really don't see it would make that much difference in then finding a job....." Ok a fair point. It would still be very expensive to implement and would ultimately undermine the whole point of reforming the system (saving money). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" should it be the council's responsibility to pay for these two to live in a flat?" i think thats the major problem in this country. People expect to be housed and given money for having children that they can not afford to raise | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am one of the few people who agree with the cuts, and yes some of them have or will affect me (such as working tax credits, which are a farce). The simple fact is that certain people have had it good for too long. Take an example of our broken underclass: I have a family member who is just a teenager and is the 'proud' mother of two kids already...and pregnant with her third! She doesn't work and her boyfriend is a scumbag who doesn't work and stole from my parents when he attended their wedding anniversary party at their house in May. She also smoked whilst pregnant (which isn't relevant but it adds to show her uncaring character). Between herself, her boyfriend and two kids (soon to be three), they earn more in benefits than my boyfriend and I put together - I work full time and he has a student loan. How is that fair?! I cannot afford to have children so I don't. She can't afford to have children, but she does AND gets more than I earn working as a free handout. Something is wrong with this country if this is our way of life. For too long the work shy have been rewarded. For too long people who do not financially plan for a family have been rewarded. For too long there has been the opportunity for the young to move out of their family unit and have their rent fully paid...they don't need to work to pay their bills, someone else will do it for them. How anyone can justify this, I do not know.
So, yes I support benefit reform. I do think some innocent people will get caught in their net and that is a shame. However it needs to be done so that the next generations of our society will live in a world where you plan moving out, having kids and you work to pay for all of this - or you just DON'T HAVE IT!"Spot on | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" should it be the council's responsibility to pay for these two to live in a flat? i think thats the major problem in this country. People expect to be housed and given money for having children that they can not afford to raise" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" should it be the council's responsibility to pay for these two to live in a flat? i think thats the major problem in this country. People expect to be housed and given money for having children that they can not afford to raise" creative quoting..The actual question was "In the first intance should it be the council's responsibility to pay for these two to live in a flat?" ther's a subtle difference | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is a long thread and I haven't read it all - but I just want to make a point regarding Housing Benefit, and please forgive me if it's already been made. Correct me if I'm wrong 9as I'm sure you will), but if an amount of HB is paid to a claimant, surely this does NOT go into their pockets but into the pockets of their landlord? So if a claimant is receiving a large amount of HB, surely this must mean that the landlord is charging a very high rent? So the tax payers' money is not going to the claimant - rather, it's going to line the pockets of (probably) already wealthy landlords! The problem here is the ridiculously over-inflated property rental market. Or have I got this wrong?" As I understand it... most councils will cap the amount of rent they are prepared to pay.... but it is above the average. However, the greedy landlord......... they are never a relative of their benefit claiming tenants are they?... or are they? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole...." Where is all this voluntary work they can do? Old people are doing voluntary work, because they want to keep active. So what would happen to them? What about the council workers who are being paid to do the work? Would they get the sack, because people are doing their work for their benefits? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole.... Where is all this voluntary work they can do? Old people are doing voluntary work, because they want to keep active. So what would happen to them? What about the council workers who are being paid to do the work? Would they get the sack, because people are doing their work for their benefits?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"no comment from wishy yet ! wtf is goin on ? wishers are you slacking ? "don't worry he will show his Ugly head soon lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. well there are only 168hrs in a week now... if for example all you are asking people to is lets say 20hr/week to get your benefit money... I really don't see it would make that much difference in then finding a job..... Ok a fair point. It would still be very expensive to implement and would ultimately undermine the whole point of reforming the system (saving money)." This is the whole point a lot of these reforms won't actually save money anyway - but the extra cost will find it's way into the companies that provide services for the government at a greater cost than the civil service or the cost will be hidden in other budgets like the health and prison services local councils. In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"im sure this is going to upset alot of people but this is my view. Ive never been out of work, and this is because im prepaired to do any type of work. i have done some very bad jobs for not much money, but have never needed to claim. after a divorce and loosing my house ive been renting privatly and its not cheep, but take pride in having always supported myself and family without needing help from the state. In our last rented house the people next door didnt work and lived a much better lifestyle than us, newer car than us holidays etc. but they never worked. Its about time the idea that you can live without working is gone. Ive just looked on our local job centre site and there are loads of jobs, al be it low payed, so there is, at least in my area, no excuse." unfortunately you seem to have missed out that in some areas there are well over 300 ppl applying for even part time jobs...... our son in law was made redundant and is applying for just about every job he can at the moment, they are in a rented house with a baby and pay 500 a month for rent..... this is the average in this area, they cannot get a council accomodation as they are on a list and takes an average of two yrs to be given one. We haven't got the room to aoccomodate them here with us, so at the moment they are in a no win situation.They cannot get a mortgage due to the fact hes not in employment, whihc in fact would take their monthy housing down to approx 300........... so the whole system is a shambles in my opinion. I am in total agreement with ppl being punished for thinking they can get benefits for nothing, but god theres something wrong in this country when you have a family who are trying their best to get back into work and they seem to get less help than those who think this country is a safe bet to come and live in. Our daughter is in part time emplyment and is registered disabled, and yet they have had so many doors closed in their faces its a disgrace................... makes my blood boil !!!!!!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"no comment from wishy yet ! wtf is goin on ? wishers are you slacking ?
don't worry he will show his Ugly head soon lol"Probably reading the daily mail for some "facts" as we speak - you know i'm only joking wishy | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mmmm where do the government get these ideas we have housing reform, childcare reform, education reform, nanny states telling us how to be good parents putting oodles of money into useless schemes. The benefits agency is being privatised with new iniciatives. I think we are living in the 70/80s. Is there no idea original that will help this country." Tax evasion accounts for £25 billion lost to the state enough to pay for all housing and child benefits - so while certain individual and companies avoid payinh their share the rest of us have 2p in the pound added to our tax bill | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer " My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit." sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit." It may just make teenagers stop and think before they have unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancies. A lot leave school get pregnant and think the government will keep them and house them. They need to get out of this mentality. And look for something better for their lives. Ps not bashing single mums because I am one. But there are other options for young girls. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict " Unless they start renting a stupidly priced appartment, they won't be turned down for housing benefit.... that's the point. They can leave a perfectly good home, with a number of other options and yet still choose to go and get somewhere and have the system pay for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"we are in council accom and have just had a letter through saying we are under occupying our 3 bedroom house,therefore an added 50 quid a month will be needed to rent the third bedroom.apparently we are only entitled to a two bed from april next year,i think this is discusting.the options are to move to a two bed house or a scabby top floor flat next to the local smack heads.times are hard im infuriated.then when my son turns 16 we will be entitled to a three bed its laughable what a waste of time." Yep I am in a two bed flat with two children I don't even qualify for a house. Have been decorating and making the best of what I have even though I pay for my rent and council tax. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"we are in council accom and have just had a letter through saying we are under occupying our 3 bedroom house,therefore an added 50 quid a month will be needed to rent the third bedroom.apparently we are only entitled to a two bed from april next year,i think this is discusting.the options are to move to a two bed house or a scabby top floor flat next to the local smack heads.times are hard im infuriated.then when my son turns 16 we will be entitled to a three bed its laughable what a waste of time. Yep I am in a two bed flat with two children I don't even qualify for a house. Have been decorating and making the best of what I have even though I pay for my rent and council tax." Thought you had a date to move shaz | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict Unless they start renting a stupidly priced appartment, they won't be turned down for housing benefit.... that's the point. They can leave a perfectly good home, with a number of other options and yet still choose to go and get somewhere and have the system pay for it. " and what will happen post reforms particularly if for some reason she cant live at home | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. well there are only 168hrs in a week now... if for example all you are asking people to is lets say 20hr/week to get your benefit money... I really don't see it would make that much difference in then finding a job....." They surveyed 'job seekers' recently and discovered the average time spent each day actually 'job seeking' was...... 8 minutes.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict Unless they start renting a stupidly priced appartment, they won't be turned down for housing benefit.... that's the point. They can leave a perfectly good home, with a number of other options and yet still choose to go and get somewhere and have the system pay for it. and what will happen post reforms particularly if for some reason she cant live at home " You don't seem to grasp the point or are just choosing to ignore it.... For many, not all but many, there is no reason why she can't live at home other than for some pussy-footed reason we have made a bunch of people think they have a god given right to choose to leave home even though they don't have the means to fund it. I thought I had made myself clear earlier in saying the family should be the support in the first instance and the system be there for those who do not have that support. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"we are in council accom and have just had a letter through saying we are under occupying our 3 bedroom house,therefore an added 50 quid a month will be needed to rent the third bedroom.apparently we are only entitled to a two bed from april next year,i think this is discusting.the options are to move to a two bed house or a scabby top floor flat next to the local smack heads.times are hard im infuriated.then when my son turns 16 we will be entitled to a three bed its laughable what a waste of time. Yep I am in a two bed flat with two children I don't even qualify for a house. Have been decorating and making the best of what I have even though I pay for my rent and council tax. Thought you had a date to move shaz" Nope was an exchange but fell through so instead have redecorated and have had new carpets fitted my home looks like a palace | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"They would also have fewer hours in which to search for a job. well there are only 168hrs in a week now... if for example all you are asking people to is lets say 20hr/week to get your benefit money... I really don't see it would make that much difference in then finding a job..... They surveyed 'job seekers' recently and discovered the average time spent each day actually 'job seeking' was...... 8 minutes. "Thankfully I have a job but i just searched jobseekers for my particualr trade for jobs posted in the last 14 days within 45 miles of my house and +0 hours. I took out the agency jobs beacuase they tend to lie about how long a job is for and what was left? well 8 minutes would be about right | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict Unless they start renting a stupidly priced appartment, they won't be turned down for housing benefit.... that's the point. They can leave a perfectly good home, with a number of other options and yet still choose to go and get somewhere and have the system pay for it. and what will happen post reforms particularly if for some reason she cant live at home You don't seem to grasp the point or are just choosing to ignore it.... For many, not all but many, there is no reason why she can't live at home other than for some pussy-footed reason we have made a bunch of people think they have a god given right to choose to leave home even though they don't have the means to fund it. I thought I had made myself clear earlier in saying the family should be the support in the first instance and the system be there for those who do not have that support." I understand what you are saying but if she says she can't live at home what do you do - it's a simple question | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In answere to Polo - what happens now if a single gal with a baby turns up at the council offices asking to be housed. I'm sure they must be asked if they have family to live with. But will have some real or not reason why they can't live at home, and if they are turned away what happens then - I don't know the answer and I doubt there is no easy answer My question wasn't about asking the council to be housed, it was about asking the council for housing benefit. sam applies tho if they turn her down what happens next, not an easy thing to predict Unless they start renting a stupidly priced appartment, they won't be turned down for housing benefit.... that's the point. They can leave a perfectly good home, with a number of other options and yet still choose to go and get somewhere and have the system pay for it. and what will happen post reforms particularly if for some reason she cant live at home You don't seem to grasp the point or are just choosing to ignore it.... For many, not all but many, there is no reason why she can't live at home other than for some pussy-footed reason we have made a bunch of people think they have a god given right to choose to leave home even though they don't have the means to fund it. I thought I had made myself clear earlier in saying the family should be the support in the first instance and the system be there for those who do not have that support. I understand what you are saying but if she says she can't live at home what do you do - it's a simple question" Similar to what happens now to a lot of people. They search for an emergency hostel type housing centre, so they don't end up on the street and have a safe and warm bed to sleep in whilst her needs are assessed and the appropriate level of support found. But I'll go back to the original point. She does have somewhere to live, in fact she has a choice of places 'if' families took responsibility. So... is it right that she should leave home and the Council foot the bill? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But I'll go back to the original point. She does have somewhere to live, in fact she has a choice of places 'if' families took responsibility. So... is it right that she should leave home and the Council foot the bill?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But I'll go back to the original point. She does have somewhere to live, in fact she has a choice of places 'if' families took responsibility. So... is it right that she should leave home and the Council foot the bill? "So, if you had a daughter who had a baby. would you be quite happy to have her living with you and for you to have to look after her and her kid? I havnt got a daughter so cant realy say. Only after looking after her untill she was 18, i think i would be looking forward to some time on my own. To be doing my own thing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But I'll go back to the original point. She does have somewhere to live, in fact she has a choice of places 'if' families took responsibility. So... is it right that she should leave home and the Council foot the bill?
So, if you had a daughter who had a baby.
would you be quite happy to have her living with you and for you to have to look after her and her kid?
I havnt got a daughter so cant realy say.
Only after looking after her untill she was 18, i think i would be looking forward to some time on my own.
To be doing my own thing. "Well yes I would as it would be my responsibility to take care of her as I brought her into the world. Not British Taxpayers. And yes I do have a daughter (and a son) and after my divorce she came to live with me for over 2 years until my move to Suffolk. She then took over my flat. No drain on taxpayers as she worked damned hard for everything as has my son. So I'd like to think my Ex and me did a good job as parents. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just don't vote for this twat again stoping benefits coz of all the people that shouldn't be here are taking it. Oh and he was goin on about jimmy Carr non tax he must of forgot about his dad who got away with 10 million and not paid tax on it," I also wonder why there was not the same hugh and cry over Mr Ashcroft and Gary Barlow (One is a major donor and the other is a fairly vocal supporter)......... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But I'll go back to the original point. She does have somewhere to live, in fact she has a choice of places 'if' families took responsibility. So... is it right that she should leave home and the Council foot the bill?
So, if you had a daughter who had a baby.
would you be quite happy to have her living with you and for you to have to look after her and her kid?
I havnt got a daughter so cant realy say.
Only after looking after her untill she was 18, i think i would be looking forward to some time on my own.
To be doing my own thing.
Well yes I would as it would be my responsibility to take care of her as I brought her into the world. Not British Taxpayers.
And yes I do have a daughter (and a son) and after my divorce she came to live with me for over 2 years until my move to Suffolk. She then took over my flat. No drain on taxpayers as she worked damned hard for everything as has my son. So I'd like to think my Ex and me did a good job as parents."Well done! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just don't vote for this twat again stoping benefits coz of all the people that shouldn't be here are taking it. Oh and he was goin on about jimmy Carr non tax he must of forgot about his dad who got away with 10 million and not paid tax on it, I also wonder why there was not the same hugh and cry over Mr Ashcroft and Gary Barlow (One is a major donor and the other is a fairly vocal supporter)......... " But It's good to see that Cameron learnt such a strong ethical awareness when he studied at Eton College, registered charity number 1139086. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"steralise people automatically from the age of 10 until proof of employment and solvency is attained (tongue firmly in cheek)" Don't put ideas in peoples heads we will have a "consultation" on that idea pretty soon | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My views would be deemed politically incorrect, bigoted, racist and no doubt other ' freedom of speech as long as you don't speak them out loud' comments. Therefore I shall remain oppressed, sorry meant to say quiet, to avoid another forum ban for expressing my personal views, that some persons may not agree with." spoilsport | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But It's good to see that Cameron learnt such a strong ethical awareness when he studied at Eton College, registered charity number 1139086." ... as is every other 'Public School'. The last time their 'charitable' status was threatened was if Labour had got back in in 1983. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Some young people dont want to live with their parents, because they are bullied and abused. Their lives can be a living hell. They can be driven to suicide because of it. Or they would rather live on the streets. " That is covered in the very first point: "1 Removing access to housing benefit for anyone aged 16-24, a move that would save £2bn a year and affect 210,000 social housing tenants. Exemptions would apply to victims of domestic violence and presumably couples with children." I think domestic violence covers violence against children by their parent/s. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"i think food stamps are a great idea for those that refuse to work. And please note, i said REFUSE. why shouldnt there be a stigma attached to claiming benefits and not working a day in your whole life?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work" If there is enough community work to require permanent workers (albeit transient benefit claimants) then it should be treated as permanent work and those doing it paid accordingly. I'm not disargeeing with the govt in requiring benefit claimants to do community work but they should be paid the going rate for the work they do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A lot of these people will be employed in low paying jobs. If you are working full time you should really be able to afford to rent a place. The reality is that wages are too low so they have to be topped up by the government in order to pay some buy to let wanker's mortgage. " So someone who made a success of himself/herself and has invested wisely for his/her future by buying property... is a wanker? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. Are you suggesting we put under 25's up chimneys?
That's one way no i'm just saying that previous generations never had hand outs yet they survived.
I know we are in a different era now but people stayed at home until they got married. "And there weren't 65 million of us either. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But It's good to see that Cameron learnt such a strong ethical awareness when he studied at Eton College, registered charity number 1139086. ... as is every other 'Public School'. The last time their 'charitable' status was threatened was if Labour had got back in in 1983. "An interesting point - Eton is one of the biggest landowners in the UK | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question what did people actually do before the benefit system such as my mum and dad and my grandparents, my grandparents back then had large families my mum was on of 9 did my grandad claim anything no because he was too proud ask for help even when he hit retirement. They worked and saved for what they wanted nothing was handed out to them. Are you suggesting we put under 25's up chimneys?
That's one way no i'm just saying that previous generations never had hand outs yet they survived.
I know we are in a different era now but people stayed at home until they got married.
And there weren't 65 million of us either. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"no comment from wishy yet ! wtf is goin on ? wishers are you slacking ?
don't worry he will show his Ugly head soon lol
Probably reading the daily mail for some "facts" as we speak - you know i'm only joking wishy "That depressing rag is the bane of my life as Siren's dad has read it all his life so she got used to reading it too. Now she reads it on her iPhone then moans at how depressing it all is. STOP fookin reading it then I always tell her. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"...the new changes will also mean that those who've always worked, paid Tax and National Insurance and always supportwd themselves, don't get a bum deal when they fall on hard times ..." How? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"no comment from wishy yet ! wtf is goin on ? wishers are you slacking ?
don't worry he will show his Ugly head soon lol
Probably reading the daily mail for some "facts" as we speak - you know i'm only joking wishy
That depressing rag is the bane of my life as Siren's dad has read it all his life so she got used to reading it too. Now she reads it on her iPhone then moans at how depressing it all is. STOP fookin reading it then I always tell her. "you were sorely missed this afternoon | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"no comment from wishy yet ! wtf is goin on ? wishers are you slacking ?
don't worry he will show his Ugly head soon lol
Probably reading the daily mail for some "facts" as we speak - you know i'm only joking wishy
That depressing rag is the bane of my life as Siren's dad has read it all his life so she got used to reading it too. Now she reads it on her iPhone then moans at how depressing it all is. STOP fookin reading it then I always tell her.
you were sorely missed this afternoon "I was out delivering flyers for my new electrician business. Good job too as we need a childminder and I got chatting to one as I was out walking, she's going to have a word on the local grapevine for a reliable childminder for when Siren goes back to work. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you get off your arse and get out there. I had an altogether productive day. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"2. Banning anyone earning above £60,000 from access to a council house tenancy, affecting 12,000 to 34,000 households. Alternatively, restrict access to council housing to anyone earning more than £100,000, affecting 1,000 to 6,000 council tenants. Cameron justifies the move saying: "When you have people on £70,000 a year living for £90 or so a week in London's most expensive postcodes, you have to ask whether this is the best use of public resources."" If council housing is to provide accommodation for people who cannot afford to buy their own home then it should be restricted to those very people. Nobody on £60k+ p.a. should live in subsidised council property. Period. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 3 Breaking the link between benefits and inflation, and considering linking benefits to average earnings. Cameron argues benefits were increased by 5.2% last year, in line with inflation, yet this was almost twice as much as the average wage increase. If working-age benefits had been uprated in line with earnings, the increase would have been only uprated by 2.5%, instead of 5.2%, saving £5 billion." If JSA is linked to average earnings (which it shouldn't be because JSA is for people who aren't earning at all) instead of linking it to inflation (which affects all of us, working or not) then all that will do is increase the gap between those who can afford to live comfortably and those who are on the breadline. It's no good saving £5bn a year if food then becomes too expensive to the poorest to afford and/or they are forced to choose between heating or eating. Rethink that one please Dave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"16. Reducing benefit penalties on a family if an adult living at home finds work. The penalties had been increased by the Conservatives. At present, a non-dependant deduction removes up to £74 a week housing benefit." Point 1 proposes that 16-24y/o's should be refused housing benefit, which will force them to remain at home with the folks, but if they do remain at home and their parents are in reciept of housing benefit they'll see it cut by £74/week because they have an adult non-dependant living at home. It's a no-brainer to see what will happen if some families are faced with losing £274/month in housing benefit because they have a child living with them who's working - they'll boot them out. One could argue that these working adult children living at home will be paying board to their parents so the cut is justified, but at the moment I'd stake my life that some parents claim housing benefit AND take board money from their kids. Just who is the govt targetting with this one? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Point 2 of Cameron's proposals has my absolute FULL backing: 2. Banning anyone earning above £60,000 from access to a council house tenancy, affecting 12,000 to 34,000 households. Alternatively, restrict access to council housing to anyone earning more than £100,000, affecting 1,000 to 6,000 council tenants. Cameron justifies the move saying: "When you have people on £70,000 a year living for £90 or so a week in London's most expensive postcodes, you have to ask whether this is the best use of public resources." If council housing is to provide accommodation for people who cannot afford to buy their own home then it should be restricted to those very people. Nobody on £60k+ p.a. should live in subsidised council property. Period. "
Exactly, we thought that was the initial idea of council housing.
We don't agree with selling them off either, if you can afford a mortgage you should leave the council property and buy private.
Council property should be for those who can't afford mortgages for justified reasons, not because they've just arrived in this country or are on the scrounge.
Also we should stop all this foreign aid until our own country is back on its feet, charity begins at home etc! 
XXXX | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"What if the youngsters don't have parents or have been chucked out already? What if they had a job and got made redundant under the age of 25? What if they couldn't get a job because the jobs seem scarce at the moment, have no parents or have been chucked out by their parents?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"What if the youngsters don't have parents or have been chucked out already? What if they had a job and got made redundant under the age of 25? What if they couldn't get a job because the jobs seem scarce at the moment, have no parents or have been chucked out by their parents?" I'm against Point 1, not for it. A universal credit system that discriminates against someone because of their age or locality is not universal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So. It's best to not suggest change, keep things ticking along nicely, don't upset people and keep paying out squillions. In case you lose popularity. Or the money runs out. Oh shit it already did." Or stick blinkers on think of a number and forget about the consequences - Things like this need to be thought out not scribbled on the back of a fag packet | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Or the money runs out. Oh shit it already did." Only running short, whilst millionaires etc aren't paying their taxes. Billions of pounds in taxes are being unpaid each year, enough to pay for many hospitals, and much of what is vented for cutting. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Or the money runs out. Oh shit it already did. Only running short, whilst millionaires etc aren't paying their taxes. Billions of pounds in taxes are being unpaid each year, enough to pay for many hospitals, and much of what is vented for cutting." It's been said that if all tax loop holes are closed all the money to recover will be made within a month | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Community work for example - people will have to be provided with personal ptotective clothing - supervisors - training maybe transport also administration and then there will be all the personal injury claims to deal with with when these inexperienced poorly trained poorly supervised people are let loose to injure themselves or others Heres an off the wall idea why don't we just employ them properly to do the work well maybe its just me.. but if they haven't a job I would rather do something voluntarily and help the community then staying at home and doing nothing.... I don't see a problem with someone having to do "something" for their benefits..... most people out there wont have a issue with doing something that would benefit your community as a whole...." problem with doing Voluntary work is that can be seen as not being available for work so they can stop your benifits | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Or the money runs out. Oh shit it already did. Only running short, whilst millionaires etc aren't paying their taxes. Billions of pounds in taxes are being unpaid each year, enough to pay for many hospitals, and much of what is vented for cutting. It's been said that if all tax loop holes are closed all the money to recover will be made within a month" One would have to be extremely naive to believe that. If loopholes are closed the big players will move their money out of the UK in much the same way that the French are being enticed to the City with lucrative tax concessions that are better than they'd find in France. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"at the end of the day there is work out there, ok it might not be the kind of work they are used to, but eh its work and it pays a wage, the prob with young ones these day they want it all NOW and they are willing to start at the bottom and work there way up. take most newly weds, they want a 5 bedroom house his n her cars and so on, we all want the finer things in life but so many are not willing to work for it and rely on hand outs,well if thats the way they want to be i agree stop the hand outs" 'Most' newly weds want a 5 bedroom house and His and Her cars?.....that's a very strange take on things, don't know how you come to that conclusion....based on what evidence? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"These proposals are a smoke screen to divert attention away from much more serious stuff, and to appease the Daily Fail type readers, that someone is getting tough on something. The government is in trouble, with falling support for Cameron and the Tories, plus Libdems almost at zero point. This also follows last week tax avoidance 'scandal', and many of the current government do not pay much tax, funnily enough, making substantial use of such loop holes that they can find. Funnily, after referring to Carr, they quickly diverted attention away from ministers and tory supporters who pay minimal tax with some smoke screen tactics. They don't want to be tarred with the same brush as Carr etc. Now to the costly proposals that were mentioned. 95% of housing benefit is paid to people who are working, and not the unemployed: but you'd not guess this from the scaremongering hate propaganda that is spewed out. The scandal is that there has been no rent control, and successive governments have not built enough housing etc, nor potentially restricted some immigration that they could have, that has swelled housing demand. So rents have rocketed, whilst banks haven't been lending, due to the global financial crisis driven by bankers. Funnily enough, it's the bankers who've been financially looked after quite nicely, and the rest of us, including the under 25's, who are expected to bear the brunt of the costs. It's ok for millionaires, they'll largely continue with their tax avoidance, as do many corporations, who run the scams of multiple holding companies, in the Channel Islands, Caribbean hideaways etc. What this government has been doing is turning one sector of society against others, largely stoking up anger etc, such as the mediocre paid masses against the very poor, rather than towards the elite who have seen their wealth grow every upwards during the downtown, whilst they profit from our dwindling wages. Part of the scam is that by fostering a low wage economy, it puts ever more people one step away from financial ruin - I think there are 7 million people now at this stage, which is horrific. Don't expect impartial news coverage either, as most of the media is owned by people and corporations who undertake much of the dodgy tax avoidance, and have a vested interest in keeping us plebs at each other's throats, rather than venting our anger against the likes of them. So, keeping an open mind, I'm sickened by someone like Cameron, whose family millions came from his father's tax avoidance services provided to others, lecturing and posturing against the weakest amongst us, whilst kicking away the support structures of people such as the sick and disabled, as well as the young. As said, most housing benefit goes to those who have jobs. If we had more employment prospects, and better paying jobs, rather than mcjob type minimum wages etc, our housing benefit wouldn't be paid to so many. Whilst we've allowed the private rented sector to prosper, without rent controls or supporting new building expansion, it's helped create this mess. "
david cameron well he,s a tit , what about all the foreign ppl comin to live here and claimin thousands each year they even get more than some of our pensioners , i work in a care home and do the odd shift in the local shop and i have seen these guys come in with free top up vouchers from the government so they can call home and then pullin a 100 note out of his pocket to buy several packets of cigarettes how is that fair , the worlds all wrong and he should really be lookin after his own but thats not the case , jobs are hard to find and some or so underpaid for doing them , and as for that comment of dole ppl livin better than paid workers how is that so lol get a grip and don,t vote for cameron lol rant over | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"david cameron well he,s a tit , what about all the foreign ppl comin to live here and claimin thousands each year they even get more than some of our pensioners , i work in a care home and do the odd shift in the local shop and i have seen these guys come in with free top up vouchers from the government so they can call home and then pullin a 100 note out of his pocket to buy several packets of cigarettes how is that fair , the worlds all wrong and he should really be lookin after his own but thats not the case , jobs are hard to find and some or so underpaid for doing them , and as for that comment of dole ppl livin better than paid workers how is that so lol get a grip and don,t vote for cameron lol rant over "Er... it was Labour who opened the floodgates to unrestricted & unchecked movement from europe to the UK. Try getting your facts right before laying the blame on someone. That's why lynch mobs were outlawed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"david cameron well he,s a tit , what about all the foreign ppl comin to live here and claimin thousands each year they even get more than some of our pensioners , i work in a care home and do the odd shift in the local shop and i have seen these guys come in with free top up vouchers from the government so they can call home and then pullin a 100 note out of his pocket to buy several packets of cigarettes how is that fair , the worlds all wrong and he should really be lookin after his own but thats not the case , jobs are hard to find and some or so underpaid for doing them , and as for that comment of dole ppl livin better than paid workers how is that so lol get a grip and don,t vote for cameron lol rant over
Er... it was Labour who opened the floodgates to unrestricted & unchecked movement from europe to the UK. Try getting your facts right before laying the blame on someone. That's why lynch mobs were outlawed."oh i do beg your pardon minister lol one,s as bad as the orther and a lynch mob is not a bad idea were all mp,s are concerened all about as usefull as tits on a bore lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"im sure this is going to upset alot of people but this is my view. Ive never been out of work, and this is because im prepaired to do any type of work. i have done some very bad jobs for not much money, but have never needed to claim. after a divorce and loosing my house ive been renting privatly and its not cheep, but take pride in having always supported myself and family without needing help from the state. In our last rented house the people next door didnt work and lived a much better lifestyle than us, newer car than us holidays etc. but they never worked. Its about time the idea that you can live without working is gone. Ive just looked on our local job centre site and there are loads of jobs, al be it low payed, so there is, at least in my area, no excuse." You have an "I know my place attitude" and it is because there are too many people like you that so many people get paid a pittance whilst a few get paid far too much. Are you aware that the gap between the rich and the poor in the UK is the fourth greatest in the entire developed world, which you can find out for yourself by checking UN statistics? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"These proposals are a smoke screen to divert attention away from much more serious stuff, and to appease the Daily Fail type readers, that someone is getting tough on something. The government is in trouble, with falling support for Cameron and the Tories, plus Libdems almost at zero point. This also follows last week tax avoidance 'scandal', and many of the current government do not pay much tax, funnily enough, making substantial use of such loop holes that they can find. Funnily, after referring to Carr, they quickly diverted attention away from ministers and tory supporters who pay minimal tax with some smoke screen tactics. They don't want to be tarred with the same brush as Carr etc. Now to the costly proposals that were mentioned. 95% of housing benefit is paid to people who are working, and not the unemployed: but you'd not guess this from the scaremongering hate propaganda that is spewed out. The scandal is that there has been no rent control, and successive governments have not built enough housing etc, nor potentially restricted some immigration that they could have, that has swelled housing demand. So rents have rocketed, whilst banks haven't been lending, due to the global financial crisis driven by bankers. Funnily enough, it's the bankers who've been financially looked after quite nicely, and the rest of us, including the under 25's, who are expected to bear the brunt of the costs. It's ok for millionaires, they'll largely continue with their tax avoidance, as do many corporations, who run the scams of multiple holding companies, in the Channel Islands, Caribbean hideaways etc. What this government has been doing is turning one sector of society against others, largely stoking up anger etc, such as the mediocre paid masses against the very poor, rather than towards the elite who have seen their wealth grow every upwards during the downtown, whilst they profit from our dwindling wages. Part of the scam is that by fostering a low wage economy, it puts ever more people one step away from financial ruin - I think there are 7 million people now at this stage, which is horrific. Don't expect impartial news coverage either, as most of the media is owned by people and corporations who undertake much of the dodgy tax avoidance, and have a vested interest in keeping us plebs at each other's throats, rather than venting our anger against the likes of them. So, keeping an open mind, I'm sickened by someone like Cameron, whose family millions came from his father's tax avoidance services provided to others, lecturing and posturing against the weakest amongst us, whilst kicking away the support structures of people such as the sick and disabled, as well as the young. As said, most housing benefit goes to those who have jobs. If we had more employment prospects, and better paying jobs, rather than mcjob type minimum wages etc, our housing benefit wouldn't be paid to so many. Whilst we've allowed the private rented sector to prosper, without rent controls or supporting new building expansion, it's helped create this mess. " Yes, absolutely. In the 70s a Rent Officer would fix a reasonable rent. These days there is no regulation of the rents people can charge with the result that landlords can charge what they like. Where we live for example, the average one bedroomed flat costs £750. per month. Someone working in a shop for the minimum wage cannot possibly pay that and so he or she will get some Housing Benefit to help but will be left about £70 per week to live on. If rents were regulated so that landlords can't charge such outrageous rents then the State would not need to fork out such colossal amounts in Housing Benefit. Rents in the UK along with property prices generally are by far the highest in Europe. And you don't have to be politically left wing to believe this is wrong. The Conservatives under Heath were not opposed to regulation of rents in the private sector. You just have to be fair minded. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" 'Most' newly weds want a 5 bedroom house and His and Her cars?.....that's a very strange take on things, don't know how you come to that conclusion....based on what evidence?" lol you don't need to supply evidence to have a view....we know a few young couples who do want it all and they want it now ! When I first got married we bought a flat, then worked up to bigger houses as it went along.....the couples we know want the biggest house now and won't take into account that it doesn't come instantly unless you have a pot full of money to buy the biggest now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The proposed changes are unworkable at present, there are statutory duties to house those leaving care, and those that are homeless (homeless youths have quadrupled) therrfor they will either have to force local councils to cough up which will bust them or change the laws, either way ther would be more resistance than they could deal with, as the Liberals would go along with it and there would prob be a backbench revolt so it probably couldnt go through even if they tried, " But Why are they Homeless that's the big question. is it by choice or do they not like living under their parents rules ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"at the end of the day there is work out there, ok it might not be the kind of work they are used to, but eh its work and it pays a wage, the prob with young ones these day they want it all NOW and they are willing to start at the bottom and work there way up. take most newly weds, they want a 5 bedroom house his n her cars and so on, we all want the finer things in life but so many are not willing to work for it and rely on hand outs,well if thats the way they want to be i agree stop the hand outs 'Most' newly weds want a 5 bedroom house and His and Her cars?.....that's a very strange take on things, don't know how you come to that conclusion....based on what evidence?" sorry if you find it strange, but I think its very close and yes i do know a quite a few cpls who live like or at least try open your eyes to the real world we live in | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The proposed changes are unworkable at present, there are statutory duties to house those leaving care, and those that are homeless (homeless youths have quadrupled) therrfor they will either have to force local councils to cough up which will bust them or change the laws, either way ther would be more resistance than they could deal with, as the Liberals would go along with it and there would prob be a backbench revolt so it probably couldnt go through even if they tried, But Why are they Homeless that's the big question. is it by choice or do they not like living under their parents rules ??" Increased poverty so whole family are evicted, domestic violence,Fleeing homophobia within the family,Kicked out for other relationships outside community, family wont accept a pregnancy. left care, family cant afford to keep them,Family banged up, from a traveler family, might not have a family, moved to London in a desparate attempt to get a job, and yes possibly kicked out due to teenage delinquancy issues there are a whole raft of potential issues take your pick we can be judgemental on some 9tho clearly not others) and say its thier fault but it wont solve the fact that numbers are increasing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I dont wish to enter the discussion on the rights/ wrongs of cuts to the under 25 s however, I would like to say that I consider my parental responsibility NOT to end when mine were 16 or 18. If one of mine need to live with me - I would make room. Thats what parents do, in my world anyway. "mine too but sadly this is not the case for all too many in society, not everyone has a caring supporting family background with two comfortably off parents, millions in the Uk dont. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I dont wish to enter the discussion on the rights/ wrongs of cuts to the under 25 s however, I would like to say that I consider my parental responsibility NOT to end when mine were 16 or 18. If one of mine need to live with me - I would make room. Thats what parents do, in my world anyway.
mine too but sadly this is not the case for all too many in society, not everyone has a caring supporting family background with two comfortably off parents, millions in the Uk dont. "Fully appreciated and I am a single parent, just for background info. I would make sacrifices for mine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The proposed changes are unworkable at present, there are statutory duties to house those leaving care, and those that are homeless (homeless youths have quadrupled) therrfor they will either have to force local councils to cough up which will bust them or change the laws, either way ther would be more resistance than they could deal with, as the Liberals would go along with it and there would prob be a backbench revolt so it probably couldnt go through even if they tried, But Why are they Homeless that's the big question. is it by choice or do they not like living under their parents rules ?? Increased poverty so whole family are evicted, domestic violence,Fleeing homophobia within the family,Kicked out for other relationships outside community, family wont accept a pregnancy. left care, family cant afford to keep them,Family banged up, from a traveler family, might not have a family, moved to London in a desparate attempt to get a job, and yes possibly kicked out due to teenage delinquancy issues there are a whole raft of potential issues take your pick we can be judgemental on some 9tho clearly not others) and say its thier fault but it wont solve the fact that numbers are increasing. " And then there are the people on Jeremy Kyle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"at the end of the day there is work out there, ok it might not be the kind of work they are used to, but eh its work and it pays a wage, the prob with young ones these day they want it all NOW and they are willing to start at the bottom and work there way up. take most newly weds, they want a 5 bedroom house his n her cars and so on, we all want the finer things in life but so many are not willing to work for it and rely on hand outs,well if thats the way they want to be i agree stop the hand outs 'Most' newly weds want a 5 bedroom house and His and Her cars?.....that's a very strange take on things, don't know how you come to that conclusion....based on what evidence? sorry if you find it strange, but I think its very close and yes i do know a quite a few cpls who live like or at least try open your eyes to the real world we live in" Believe me my eyes are wide open....and my eyes see countless examples of over reaction and half truths on these forums... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok take the Asian different generations living under one roof supporting each other within the family looking after the young as well as supporting the old." Indeed, and not just Asian families - there are many examples in other countries, as there are in Britain, that family life is an important value. I believe that we should start looking at how to improve that somehow. Although I dont have all the answers I feel this is where many of today's problems are rooted. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"at the end of the day there is work out there, ok it might not be the kind of work they are used to, but eh its work and it pays a wage, the prob with young ones these day they want it all NOW and they are willing to start at the bottom and work there way up. take most newly weds, they want a 5 bedroom house his n her cars and so on, we all want the finer things in life but so many are not willing to work for it and rely on hand outs,well if thats the way they want to be i agree stop the hand outs 'Most' newly weds want a 5 bedroom house and His and Her cars?.....that's a very strange take on things, don't know how you come to that conclusion....based on what evidence? sorry if you find it strange, but I think its very close and yes i do know a quite a few cpls who live like or at least try open your eyes to the real world we live in Believe me my eyes are wide open....and my eyes see countless examples of over reaction and half truths on these forums...well come to Newcastle and I can show you the ppl " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I got a letter from the benefits office this morning telling me that they were not going to pay me Job Seekers Allowance as I was only entitled to 182 days and that they hadn't paid me anything for the last 186 but I could appeal if I wanted to ........ yep I had to read it 3 or 4 times before I understood it too "and I guess you have worked hard all your life and paid tens of thousands of pounds in tax .......it beggars belief really doesnt it ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"This is why i love the forum. You learn here better than anywhere...Whenn will they put a bills in to force all the MP to join Fab???? Now talking about cuting the benefit...What would this country be if there was no benefit like in so many countries elsewhere???? It is shocking when in europe, you hear some people planning to move to UK just to get housing benefit and any other handout available Then again you hear some girls as younger as 17 planning to get pregnant and stay at home and do nothing Cut all..." when i was doing volunteer one of my clients was waiting for a decision on her immigration status...not going into details or nething but it wasnt like she had just moved here she has been living here for years...she was not entitled to anyhin what so ever, no benefits, couldnt work, etc etc so its not always the case | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"i forgot you get so much money in benefits. way you all go on is like every single person who recieves some kind of benfit is doing so because they are lazy bums who have never done a days work in their life!!! yes there are some like this but for the majority it is not true!!! think some of you need to live in the real world and stop judgig. god forbid any of you have to recieve any benefits " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I got a letter from the benefits office this morning telling me that they were not going to pay me Job Seekers Allowance as I was only entitled to 182 days and that they hadn't paid me anything for the last 186 but I could appeal if I wanted to ........ yep I had to read it 3 or 4 times before I understood it too
and I guess you have worked hard all your life and paid tens of thousands of pounds in tax .......it beggars belief really doesnt it ?
"yep, I don't get it because I was prudent and saved i.e. I have a very small income (abt £5 a week over the limit) so don't get a penny in benefits or help with courses or travel to interviews  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I got a letter from the benefits office this morning telling me that they were not going to pay me Job Seekers Allowance as I was only entitled to 182 days and that they hadn't paid me anything for the last 186 but I could appeal if I wanted to ........ yep I had to read it 3 or 4 times before I understood it too
yep can understand you frustration, i had to go to stoke for an interview and the dole said they would give a rail ticket but on checking the time i would not have made the interview so selected to drive there, when i went to claim
my travel expenses, i got £21.00 for fuel for the journey to stoke and back think i was out of pocket by 20 odd quid
and I guess you have worked hard all your life and paid tens of thousands of pounds in tax .......it beggars belief really doesnt it ?
yep, I don't get it because I was prudent and saved i.e. I have a very small income (abt £5 a week over the limit) so don't get a penny in benefits or help with courses or travel to interviews " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"im sure this is going to upset alot of people but this is my view. Ive never been out of work, and this is because im prepaired to do any type of work. i have done some very bad jobs for not much money, but have never needed to claim. after a divorce and loosing my house ive been renting privatly and its not cheep, but take pride in having always supported myself and family without needing help from the state. In our last rented house the people next door didnt work and lived a much better lifestyle than us, newer car than us holidays etc. but they never worked. Its about time the idea that you can live without working is gone. Ive just looked on our local job centre site and there are loads of jobs, al be it low payed, so there is, at least in my area, no excuse." doesnt upset me,iv been in exactly the same position as you and i scrubbed the local hospital,cleaned in an old peoples home,and worked a taxi firm on kicking out time at the local clubs,not easy but then im proud to have kept my girls and myself without help from benefits,thankfully those days are behind us, and my girls and myself have very good careers now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
