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casual workers redundancy
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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i have worked for the same boss for 10 years, but he has us all on casual workers contracts, he acts like he is an agency but we work alongside him, and the work has been at the same place for the whole 10 years.
what are our rights, i feel that we have casual contracts so he can avoid paying out redundancy etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not 100% sure but I thought if there for 2 years you are full time and get full time rights? I know we have two people on temp contracts and if we keep them longer then they are entitled to a perm contract.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i have worked for the same boss for 10 years, but he has us all on casual workers contracts, he acts like he is an agency but we work alongside him, and the work has been at the same place for the whole 10 years.
what are our rights, i feel that we have casual contracts so he can avoid paying out redundancy etc."
Speak to him about it as he's the only one who can clarify your situation and/or improve your terms. It's difficult to stand up at a tribunal and ask for redundancy money when you've worked for the guy for ten years and wasn't aware of the situation regarding the type of contract you have. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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he is not easy to approach, he provides no protective clothing, is very evasive with regard to personal issues, and will never do anything that will make him financially worse off.
casual workers seem to be a very grey area with regard to rights, it seems bizarre i am deemed casual yet can work 50/60 hours a week, for the same boss for 10 years. I was under the impression all workers were entitled to the same rights, but looking around nothing is conclusive and many things contracdictory. Would love some defintive answers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"he is not easy to approach, he provides no protective clothing, is very evasive with regard to personal issues, and will never do anything that will make him financially worse off.
casual workers seem to be a very grey area with regard to rights, it seems bizarre i am deemed casual yet can work 50/60 hours a week, for the same boss for 10 years. I was under the impression all workers were entitled to the same rights, but looking around nothing is conclusive and many things contracdictory. Would love some defintive answers"
If they job you do requires Personal Protective Equipment and he either isn't providing it, or allowing you to work without it, then he is breaking the law. I'd insist on it and if he refuses I'd quit on the spot and report him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Google agency workers regulations, the law changed in October 2011 regarding workers rights, however if he has you on a casual contract basis I think redundancy payments won't apply.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"he is not easy to approach, he provides no protective clothing, is very evasive with regard to personal issues, and will never do anything that will make him financially worse off.
casual workers seem to be a very grey area with regard to rights, it seems bizarre i am deemed casual yet can work 50/60 hours a week, for the same boss for 10 years. I was under the impression all workers were entitled to the same rights, but looking around nothing is conclusive and many things contracdictory. Would love some defintive answers"
Speak to Acas and your local Citizens Advice Bureau. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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i would love to quit on the spot, but that doesn't pay the bills, he is very flippant with regard to the law, no itemised pay slip, no protective clothing, i just want to know what the situation is with regard to redundancy and whether i am entitled.
thanks for your responses everybody |
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"he is not easy to approach, he provides no protective clothing, is very evasive with regard to personal issues, and will never do anything that will make him financially worse off.
casual workers seem to be a very grey area with regard to rights, it seems bizarre i am deemed casual yet can work 50/60 hours a week, for the same boss for 10 years. I was under the impression all workers were entitled to the same rights, but looking around nothing is conclusive and many things contracdictory. Would love some defintive answers"
any employer albeit for workers on temporary contracts or long term has to by statute provide adequate personal protective equipment for the role the employee carries out..
the law changed a cpl of years ago whereby any employer may face a custodial sentence if they knowingly do not provide and the employee is injured..
even if the guy works alongside and says 'but its ok, i dont need x,y or z', you have rights to have your health, safety and welfare protected..
HSE will have advice.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"he is not easy to approach, he provides no protective clothing, is very evasive with regard to personal issues, and will never do anything that will make him financially worse off.
casual workers seem to be a very grey area with regard to rights, it seems bizarre i am deemed casual yet can work 50/60 hours a week, for the same boss for 10 years. I was under the impression all workers were entitled to the same rights, but looking around nothing is conclusive and many things contracdictory. Would love some defintive answers"
The law is very clear on PPE, if your job requires it then he has no choice, he has to provide it at his expense.
You could always speak to someone at the HSE (health and safety executive) report it on the quiet and they would investigate and if needed they would enforce he provides PPE |
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It's difficult to say without seeing the terms of your contract.
The AWD came into force in Oct 2011 (Agency Workers Directive) giving temporary workers rights to the same pay and conditions as permanent workers after completing 12 weeks work.
It doesn't cover those working on a managed service contract(which it sounds like you might be on)
Give the ACAS helpline a call: Monday-Friday, 8am-8pm and Saturday, 9am-1pm: 08457 47 47 47. It's a free service (hope it's OK to post that here) Make sure you have your contract to hand. |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
"think you will find that after 2 years on going work for the same comperny and you can prove it you have the same rights as a full time worker as long as he pays your tax and stamp "
As above I am sure that after 2 yrs you are entitled to redundacy provided you are not working on a self employed basis.
This is one reason a lot of companies have employed people for 10 yrs or more and pay them off every 18 months for a few weeks so they cant claim the rights that full time workers can which i am sure is another of Maggies legacies but down to the Eu its all changed or about to.
Being in the EU is not all bad. |
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"i have worked for the same boss for 10 years, but he has us all on casual workers contracts, he acts like he is an agency but we work alongside him, and the work has been at the same place for the whole 10 years.
what are our rights, i feel that we have casual contracts so he can avoid paying out redundancy etc."
Who has the right to statutory redundancy pay
Only some people are entitled to statutory redundancy pay. You will be entitled to statutory redundancy pay if:
you've worked for your employer for at least two calendar years continuously since the age of 16
you're an employee.
Most people in work are employees, but if you're self-employed, a short-term casual worker or an independent contractor, you are unlikely to be an employee and you won't be entitled to statutory redundancy pay.
Some agency workers and freelance workers count as employees but not all of them.
If you are on a fixed-term contract, you may be entitled to statutory redundancy pay. Your contract needs to be at least two years long or more. This also applies if you have shorter contracts which follow on from each other, as long as the total period of time is at least two years. If the contract (or the last contract in the series) runs out and is not renewed because your job is no longer needed, you will be entitled to statutory redundancy pay.
For more information about who counts as an employee, see Contracts of employment.
To find out more about when you can be made redundant, see When can your employer make you redundant.
There are some workers who are never entitled to statutory redundancy pay. These are people in certain occupations, such as share fishermen, civil servants and police officers.
Even if you're not entitled to statutory redundancy pay, you may be able to get contractual redundancy pay. Most public employees, including civil servants, have a right to contractual redundancy pay which gives them similar or better rights than a statutory payment. You should check your contract of employment to see what it says about your entitlement to redundancy pay. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fact:
If you have completed FOUR years of "continuous" service for the same employer...
You are entitled to the same rights as a full time employee...
No matter the type of contract you are on up to the fourth anniversary.
Effectively, if you have worked 10 "continuous" years with this employer you are protected by law.
Fact: It is the employers responsibility under the Health and Safety at Work Act to provide ALL employees with PPE relevant to employment duties. Failure to do so is penalised under the act by financial penalty and or custodial sentence. This is enforced by the H & S Executive.
On either count you may persue your employer in law. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i would love to quit on the spot, but that doesn't pay the bills, he is very flippant with regard to the law, no itemised pay slip, no protective clothing, i just want to know what the situation is with regard to redundancy and whether i am entitled.
thanks for your responses everybody"
This man will get someone killed one day. PPE exists for a reason and the HSE enforce it rigidly specifically BECAUSE people have been killed in the past without PPE.
You say you can't afford to quit.. can you afford to die? (not meant to sound flippant but your loved ones will suffer greatly without your income and without you) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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thanks everyone for your input, it certainly shows that it is as clear as mud.
i work in an area that is being over run with eastern europeans, we havnt seen a pay rise in 8/10 years, we do a job that is deemed below uk workers, but we work hard and honestly in an evironment where it is harder to make a living. It certainly shows to myself that the most vulnerbale are getting the least protection, and our standard of living is beeing squeezed by the increased cost of living, the lack of any pay rises, and more worryingly less jobs available due to the eastern europeans being chosen to do most of the work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally i wouldn`t have a conversatin with your "Boss" untill you have looked into your employment situation, i feel certain that you will have some protection after 10 years.
The PPE clothing issue is simple, if the job requires it.... he has to provide it, no ifs, no buts.
Citizens Advice & the HSE could put your mind at rest fairly easily, but as i mentioned... keep it quiet untill you find out for sure.
I don`t mean to shake you up any.... but he sounds like a greedy twat & if he thinks you could upset his apple cart & influence the rest of the workforce by querying your contracts he may try to get rid of you first.
Depending on the area you work in, joining a trade union is also a reasonable bet... |
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By *orkieMan
over a year ago
Who knows |
"Fact:
If you have completed FOUR years of "continuous" service for the same employer...
You are entitled to the same rights as a full time employee...
No matter the type of contract you are on up to the fourth anniversary.
Effectively, if you have worked 10 "continuous" years with this employer you are protected by law.
Fact: It is the employers responsibility under the Health and Safety at Work Act to provide ALL employees with PPE relevant to employment duties. Failure to do so is penalised under the act by financial penalty and or custodial sentence. This is enforced by the H & S Executive.
On either count you may persue your employer in law."
The HSE will only become involved if a complaint is made or a serious accident happens. They do not do walk in visits anymore |
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Sounds like a right s**t , look in to joining a union, even if there is just 1 of you at the work place in the union they will help you and give you any advise you need and go in to any meetings with your boss with you. I also they have strong legal teams who are available to help you and fund any action needed. They will also know who to speak to in the likes of HSE tax office ( I guess he dosent like paying tax) etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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although in the real world PPE is supplied by the emloyer in some case's even though you are requierd to ware PPE it is NOT up to your employer to supply it you can supply it your self and claim it back from you income tax every aprill this applies to both self employed and Paye i will ask one thing though do you get a P60 of your employer every april if not get your self down to your local tax office and find out if he is paying your tax and NI some have been know in the past to scribble your wages on a slip of paper and it turns out they havnt paid it in but taken it off you the law stats you should recive a P60 every year as its your personal tax payment record for the last financial year |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"thanks guilty pleasure, we get p60s, is there an allowance for protective clothing"
you need to get hold of these 2 forms from the HMRC website form P810 Tax Review
and form P87 Tax relief for expenses of employment you can only use these once a year so best to do it when you get your P60 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Build a choronology of all events since you started working for him, the firm, the agency.....(what ever he call's it)
Things to capture
Start date
Job Role
Meetings (who attended)
Work Progesssion or responsibilities (same role or higher than when you started)
Work Events (Xmas Do's, Entertainment)
Bonus payments (Xmas, Performance etc...)
Document times when youve asked for clarification of role / employment etc (who, when, where, outcome)
Then take to CIB or any employment specialist and you'll have a field day if you wanted to.......
Feel free to PM me if you need any further help with the chornologys.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i have worked for the same boss for 10 years, but he has us all on casual workers contracts, he acts like he is an agency but we work alongside him, and the work has been at the same place for the whole 10 years.
what are our rights, i feel that we have casual contracts so he can avoid paying out redundancy etc."
Join a trade union. No matter what work you do there'll be a trade union for it. Trade unions exist to represent the interests of their members and will provide you with the support you need. |
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"i have worked for the same boss for 10 years, but he has us all on casual workers contracts, he acts like he is an agency but we work alongside him, and the work has been at the same place for the whole 10 years.
what are our rights, i feel that we have casual contracts so he can avoid paying out redundancy etc."
Based on the information you have given.... no one on here can answer your question accurately.
Get your contract and read it.
Work out what questions you have about your contact.
Use the ACAS site or any of the .gov pages to find the answers for free.
If you are still confused... they have helplines.
With regards to the PPE... the number to call is on the big white poster at work. |
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By *stwoCouple
over a year ago
anywhere |
Does he pay holiday pay?If he does and you have been doing the same job for 10 years the way I understand the law is your contract is a full one regardless of what he says.The best place for the right advice is to phone ACAS.They will have a branch in the nearest big city to you. |
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Some great advice given here. Whatever is written into a contract does not necessarily mean that this is the total sum of your employment conditions. Any legal obligations that an employer has supersede what may have been illegally put into a contract.
ACAS and the CAB employment advisers can provide advice, as would union representatives. There's a geographic number for ACAS, which might be cheaper to ring, such as if you're out at work, calling from a mobile - 0115 900 2670/0845 747 4747.
There are regional ACAS offices too, such as ones in Birmingham and Nottingham, which may cover your area.
The style of your employment basis also helps define what your employment status is, irrespective of what may have been obligated on a written contract. This is where the government etc would focus, should great liability fall on your employer's shoulders.
Hope you get the help that you need. Good luck! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Does he pay holiday pay?If he does and you have been doing the same job for 10 years the way I understand the law is your contract is a full one regardless of what he says.The best place for the right advice is to phone ACAS.They will have a branch in the nearest big city to you. "
he avoided paying holiday for the first 7 years, but eventually relented, he used to argue holiday was part of the "rate paid". |
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