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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago
dirtybigbadsgirlville |
"The latest news is that the government want to bring back O levels and CSE exams.
Is this a good idea and what are your thoughts."
well its going to be something similar called a different name , i dont think they should have messed with em in the first place but hey ho  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whatever they bring it will be same crap. I was shocked when i saw what they teach them here and how the exam go.
No wonder kids cant compet with the chinese or africans |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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GCSE's are better so you can be entered for one exam and then if you don't make the grade at O'level you pass at CSE level instead of failing an O. Atleast I think that's how it worked?
However what's far more useful for kids now is NVQ's with practical experience, far more valuable, especially for non-acedemics, and much more chance of employment after school.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a great idea. We've evolved into this pathetic society of entitlement where everyone believes they should have everything handed to them on a plate. Well, fuck that. We need classes, we need levels and if the best way to do that is to make education HARD again, then do it we should. University should NOT be for everyone. College should not be for everyone. Alls you end up with is no hopers who did some bollocks degree that has no chance at any job working in mcdonalds.
Meh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whatever they bring it will be same crap. I was shocked when i saw what they teach them here and how the exam go.
No wonder kids cant compet with the chinese or africans"
*Frowning* - because my daughter goes to a very mixed race school and the asian, chinese and african kids are pushed so hard to achieve - and they do - where as all the poor white kids who's parents don't give a crap are lagging behind. I'm glad my daughter has such great role models to work alongside. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its ok talking about the exams but they really need to look at the quality of teachers."
So why start a thread about the exams if you think its a teachers issue? |
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Back in the early 70s my school was one chosen for the pilot scheme for GCSE's.
From what I remember, and I have slept since then, 'O' Levels were taken and marked purely on the exam you took. Whereas GCSE's were part exam and part course work.
I subsequently finished up with both 'O'Level and GCSE in Geography |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a great idea. We've evolved into this pathetic society of entitlement where everyone believes they should have everything handed to them on a plate. Well, fuck that. We need classes, we need levels and if the best way to do that is to make education HARD again, then do it we should. University should NOT be for everyone. College should not be for everyone. Alls you end up with is no hopers who did some bollocks degree that has no chance at any job working in mcdonalds.
Meh."
the fact is, some kids are cleverer than other and why should the best ones be held back so the slower ones can catch up...
it seems everyone thinks uni is a passport to a better job and it aint..
when i was a kid i got turned down by our 6th form to do A levels.... yet i had 9 O levels all grade B and C.
i now work in a service/retail industry after working hard through a degree and a masters whilst holding down a job,and see kids that can barely spell or fill in their own address on forms, yet they tell me they are off to uni....
tut tut whats the world coming too..?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. "
thats it. lets all have a mass debate..... |
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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago
dirtybigbadsgirlville |
"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. "
How about taking some responsibility as a parent? Do they not have a part in this then? I agree with a health debate btw |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. "
Some kids are thick, bad gene pool, parents don't educate. It all starts at home with parents educating children to learn. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. How about taking some responsibility as a parent? Do they not have a part in this then? I agree with a health debate btw"
Yes totally agree with it all starting at home. We have so many non English children in the system now and there parents don't speak English or have it as a second language.
We send our children to school to learn after all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whatever they bring it will be same crap. I was shocked when i saw what they teach them here and how the exam go.
No wonder kids cant compet with the chinese or africans
*Frowning* - because my daughter goes to a very mixed race school and the asian, chinese and african kids are pushed so hard to achieve - and they do - where as all the poor white kids who's parents don't give a crap are lagging behind. I'm glad my daughter has such great role models to work alongside."
I was born in paris. My mum ( credit to her ) sent me to my dad in africa at 5 when she realised that the education in France was not strict enough.
When i went back to france to start university at 16 i was so bored as before the teacher open his mouth i knew what he wanted to talk about.
Someone mentioned the teachers. Yes they are also victims of the system. Ask them to tell you about anything else then what they teach and they cant.
A teacher, a real one should be universal and know a bit of everything on top of his specialisation |
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Great! Bring back a two tier exam system.
I went to a secondary school that did CSEs, the grammar and independent schools did O levels. CSEs were seen as inferior unless you achieved grade 1, equivalent to a C at O level. I had to do an additional year at college to get my O levels.
When a student can get an A* for English Lit without knowing who the Brontes were etc you know it's time for a revamp. Thing is are the teacher's today up to the job of inspiring and teaching to the old standards? |
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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago
dirtybigbadsgirlville |
"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate. How about taking some responsibility as a parent? Do they not have a part in this then? I agree with a health debate btw
Yes totally agree with it all starting at home. We have so many non English children in the system now and there parents don't speak English or have it as a second language.
We send our children to school to learn after all."
I dont think its anything to do with race its about parents having work ethic and educating them to want to learn...grammar schools are over subscribed by mostly children from families who were not born here .....so what does that tell you? Others are "go play outside im watching Jezza whilst having a cuppa " attitude and they expect the schools to do everything else and their kids to do well????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its all education is it not. If the children leave school without the basic knowledge of maths and English who are to blame the kids or the teachers. and how will changing exams improve this. Just looking for a healthy debate.
Some kids are thick, bad gene pool, parents don't educate. It all starts at home with parents educating children to learn."
here here.
kids can learns so much from parents before they start school and at early primary school. they are like sponges for information.
not boasting but my daughter knew all her alphabet before she started nursery and was on her way to reading and simple arithmatic from the age of 2 1/2 because we took time with her.
i also used to play games that helped her learn like adding up the shopping basket in her head as we shopped. simple things helo at an early age.
incidently she went on to go to Oxford and has just qualified as a lawyer with top firm.
you cant always blame teachers and schools as its a partnership between parent and school.
i made damn sure my daughter was learning by talking to school and interacting with the staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Great! Bring back a two tier exam system.
I went to a secondary school that did CSEs, the grammar and independent schools did O levels. CSEs were seen as inferior unless you achieved grade 1, equivalent to a C at O level. I had to do an additional year at college to get my O levels.
When a student can get an A* for English Lit without knowing who the Brontes were etc you know it's time for a revamp. Thing is are the teacher's today up to the job of inspiring and teaching to the old standards? "
You've hit the nail on the head with inspiration, IMO you can't force a child to learn, you can however inspire them to want to learn. The responsibility for this again IMO lies firmly at home.
Has anyone recently looked at the work of their child? I frequently do and I'm alarmed at the ammount of spelling mistakes that go uncorrected, I started correcting them myself, the teachers are slowly taking the hint. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I check often with both of mine. My eldest will be going into year 10 September I thought they were revamping it according to all he pathway meetings. Ps she will be doing the English Baccalaureate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I check often with both of mine. My eldest will be going into year 10 September I thought they were revamping it according to all he pathway meetings. Ps she will be doing the English Baccalaureate."
Baccalaureate....that is it...Best option ever.
They should start by getting rid of some stupid courses at university...How can you go to uny to study : Photography???? Events management????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i was entered for my GCSE at higher level where it was A* to C or a fail
entry level the maximum was a C and the lowest grade was a fail
so GCSE's within themselves have two tiers of entry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I recently heard a teacher on the radio say about her pupils 'we treat 'em all equal". I went to state schools in London from 1964 until 1975 when I turned sixteen and a teacher speaking like that would have been unthinkable. I recently went into a school and saw a teacher pinning a notice on the board which stated that 'pupils should bring THERE forms with them'.
A teacher who didn't know the difference between 'there' and 'their' would have been unthinkable when I was at school too.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I check often with both of mine. My eldest will be going into year 10 September I thought they were revamping it according to all he pathway meetings. Ps she will be doing the English Baccalaureate.
Baccalaureate....that is it...Best option ever.
They should start by getting rid of some stupid courses at university...How can you go to uny to study : Photography???? Events management?????"
University is not about seeking a great job...it's about expanding knowledge, becoming specialist.Pease dont jump to conclusions that some courses arent worthwhile.Its up to individual what they want to learn.
next U'll be saying art and philosophy isnt worth a degree etc???????whether or not it brings a job at the end of it should be no care to anyone butt the individual
*I'm not at uni for any of the above |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a great idea. We've evolved into this pathetic society of entitlement where everyone believes they should have everything handed to them on a plate. Well, fuck that. We need classes, we need levels and if the best way to do that is to make education HARD again, then do it we should. University should NOT be for everyone. College should not be for everyone. Alls you end up with is no hopers who did some bollocks degree that has no chance at any job working in mcdonalds.
Meh."
 Hear Hear. Education should not be a easy ride. Mine wasn't and it's time things toughened up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a great idea. We've evolved into this pathetic society of entitlement where everyone believes they should have everything handed to them on a plate. Well, fuck that. We need classes, we need levels and if the best way to do that is to make education HARD again, then do it we should. University should NOT be for everyone. College should not be for everyone. Alls you end up with is no hopers who did some bollocks degree that has no chance at any job working in mcdonalds.
Meh."
Thanks for posting that, saves me typing it. Good post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I still think a percentage of final exam results should be taken from cumulative course work throughout the year and not just dependent on the exam.
I remember being so nervous during exams I had to sit them in the nurses room with a screen round me, and an adjudicator to myself. Because I would throw up and pass out, as soon as those dread words "you may turn over your papers now" were uttered. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I still think a percentage of final exam results should be taken from cumulative course work throughout the year and not just dependent on the exam.
I remember being so nervous during exams I had to sit them in the nurses room with a screen round me, and an adjudicator to myself. Because I would throw up and pass out, as soon as those dread words "you may turn over your papers now" were uttered.
Absolutely, ome kids do better in exams - others better in modules. Either way, society benefits from educated children, not necessarily academic qualifications but vocational, too. Education in my _iew is the school's responsibility and support for this is down to the parents. I have always seen it as my job as a parent to make sure mine did their homework, attended school, behaved in an appropriate manner. Schooling and parenting should not be an either/or - it should be a collaborative approach to the benefit of our kids and ultimately to our society.  "
Exactly, I believe the core skills should be taught at school and also at home.
What I don't think should be taught at nursery/primary ages is all this 'eco-friendliness' Fox ache! as a mum I think I can tell my own kids to put their litter in a bin/take it home/ recycle it .... I don't need Hippy and Dippy 'teaching' my child that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" as a mum I think I can tell my own kids to put their litter in a bin/take it home/ recycle it .... I don't need Hippy and Dippy 'teaching' my child that. "
great. come and have a look at the litter at our school and you will realise that most parents obviously DO need someone to teach their child to put litter in a bin.
Typical teacher-bashing going on from some here. If you realised the lack of power we have to deal with poor discipline, you would understand why kids don't learn as much as you are expecting.
Kids have not been taught the alphabet and spelling int he way that anyone over the age of 30 has. A new system was introduced. It hasn't worked and we are gradually going back to synthetic phonetics (the older, better system). I often wonder how a 13 year old can reach that age without knowing how to spell words like 'does', 'want' or understand the difference between 'their' and 'there'. It is shocking. A bit like the 13 year old that couldn't get the right answer for 4x5 the other day. I was made to learn tables parrot-fashion by my mum. Modern kids don't seem to get that in many cases.
As said, it starts at home by teaching your kids that learning and education are valuable. The Jeremy Kyle generation don't get that as they know they can just live off benefits quite comfortably, as demonstrated by their parents.
As for O levels, GCSEs were introduced because too many kids were leaving school with, quite literally, nothing. The idea of GCSEs was that they would walk away with some grade/recognition of achievement, however small. It's just that GCSE got dumbed down to cope with the growing lack of discipline in schools |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are some great teachers but then there are some that are really lacking in basic skills. Just a thought."
Surely this is for heads of schools not the government? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What is the sense in going back to something that obviously wasn't working which is why they changed it in the first place. Seems like two steps forward, three steps back to me. The problem as I understand it is that the GSCE exams are not hard enough but is that down to successive governments dumbing down our education system so that schools could have oustanding success rates? Exams in the U.S. are far more difficult to get top grades in than over here and students in the US would laugh if they were confronted with a British exam paper. It's about time someone somewhere stood up and said "not every kid can go to Uni, cos not all kids are smart enough to go to Uni" and make the exams harder to get the required grades for University. Couple that with a drive to relaunch apprenticeships and semi-skilled work placements and we'll see youth unemployment drop, Uni grades worth the paper they're written on and an end to entire generations drifting aimlessly because nobody has shown them where they can find their place in the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As was briefly mentioned before, what is needed really is far more integrated academic and vocational qualifications. Currently school is academic and college is more (or can be depending on course) vocational. What's the point in teaching chdren maths they don't know how to apply and the a weak specialised vocational course they dont know how to relate to what they learnt. The answer must be to combine and relate academic and vocational education sooner.
This is related to a subsequent post rather than the original, but
The policy of labour was to make education inclusive. 'Everyone could go to university'. Which devalued the degree, meaning in order to stand out you needed a masters. Masters aren't funded by student loans, so many students find themselves and come out now thinking they stand out, but there are now no graduate jobs to stand out for. At the moment experience is key, and companies are recruiting from within. Just as tuition fees go up, amount of degree students goes down and the value of a degree will increase. The current generation of graduates has been totally screwed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As someone who did 11+ and had to compete to get a place at a grammar school to do 'O' level GCE l just feel things have deteriorated badly for the kids in recent years. It's not the teachers per se but more the policies of LEAs and government trying to make league tables look good. Never had these in my day and we got a better education.
There was a series of programmes on TV couple of years back where 30 teenagers fresh out of A level exams volunteered to spend a summer at a school as it was in 1952. Everything was of that year including dress code, discipline etc. First programme one class was given an exam. 75% failed. All the kids thought it was hard. It was the 11+ from 1952 and that year 75% passed!
That, l fear, sums up how dumbed down our education has become. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As someone who did 11+ and had to compete to get a place at a grammar school to do 'O' level GCE l just feel things have deteriorated badly for the kids in recent years. It's not the teachers per se but more the policies of LEAs and government trying to make league tables look good. Never had these in my day and we got a better education.
There was a series of programmes on TV couple of years back where 30 teenagers fresh out of A level exams volunteered to spend a summer at a school as it was in 1952. Everything was of that year including dress code, discipline etc. First programme one class was given an exam. 75% failed. All the kids thought it was hard. It was the 11+ from 1952 and that year 75% passed!
That, l fear, sums up how dumbed down our education has become."
I remember that show. Back in the days when reality tv still had the additional labrl of 'social experement'.
You summed it up well. The real problem though isn't the exams, or even the exam/coursework structure. It's the curriculum. And the fact that decisions about education are made by people so far removed from the education they are meant to provide. They enderstand so little about the reality.
Don't forget of course that education has changed, science and technology have changed, it's not necessary to learn some things from 1952, and even if it was, some things have to make way for all the new discoveries and understanding. School is still only 9 to 3.30 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Picked my 8 year old niece up yesterday and her mum called her a gob shite!!! The mum has a sister who's daughter is in my lads class, the kids are supposed to be there for 8.50, she never gets her daughter there on time, their dad don't work but has a Harley and a few other luxury items I won't mention, I know where the money comes from (it's not benefits so have a guess), the motions on this circle are set how is a teacher supposed to get round a family who don't respect anything or anyone???? |
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On a limb here...isnt teaching a teachers job?
I think the problem starts young in the uk and whether they change from GCSE to O Levels or anything else the Eton Mafia we have called a government can think of it will all be pointless if the foundation are not laid properly.
my justification for this is what is setting and streaming its a mockery to education children are taught they are inferior from an early age in some cases as early as age 5. why is this not addressed its not the exams thats wrong its the education system, fix that first then worry about exams; especially when alot of children arent taking any GCSE but are taking those vocational crap which doesnt even qualify them to do a decent course at college.
the education system only needs to make one change educate the children properly. Britain is the only country adults are telling you they cant spell or have a good grasp for grammar. i know people have learning difficulties but that is no excuse not to teach them adequately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its ok talking about the exams but they really need to look at the quality of teachers."
Not convinced its a teacher issue. The problem now, is that kids are taught to 'pass exams', rather than get a broader education, and practical uses for what they are being taught. They find it difficult to use what knowledge they have, in real work/life situations, as they see no relation between what they were taught at school, & the outside world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its ok talking about the exams but they really need to look at the quality of teachers.
Not convinced its a teacher issue. The problem now, is that kids are taught to 'pass exams', rather than get a broader education, and practical uses for what they are being taught. They find it difficult to use what knowledge they have, in real work/life situations, as they see no relation between what they were taught at school, & the outside world."
Agreed, combining vocational and academic would solve that issue.
We also agree its not a teacher issue, it's the education system and the rules and tick boxes teachers have to follow.
As a side note, Ofsted are changing the satisfactory grade into 'needs improvement'. So there is now no satisfactory, schhs and teachers are either good or outstanding, or not good enough. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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majority of the teachers are good but like any profession there is some poor ones,but it isnt the teaching thats lacking..its the fact that there is several exam boards competing for the schools and schools are going to obtainb the services of those they think will achieve the most passes so that schools look good ... this then leads to a very narrow teaching of any subject,so even though children are generally brighter than kids of yesteryear it is the lack of a broad subject knowledge that lets them down and makes the jump from school to uni or the work place that much bigger and more daunting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An end of course exam is exactly that - an exam. It makes no difference as to what it is called."
Yep. Exams aren't really relevant, when are they ever used in the 'real world'?
Coursework and assessments are better. Especially for vocational and lractical subjects. Exams are useful, and necessary, but should have far less weight. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The only exams that were ever taken seriously at schools puns our way were the NCB 'Pit' Tests, however the fact that we left during the strike means that none of us left with any qualifications whatsoever and even less job prospects  Oh the naivety of it all, saying that, it might have helped if we actually had any teachers that were more than a few years older than us and thrown straight into the cauldron, it must have been absolutely dreadful times for thee poor people, I still think about it now quite often.
Anyway, that was my schooldays in a nutshell, never harmed my career prospects in the slightest! Would you like fries with that? Have a nice day!  |
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