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Does cancel culture exist ?
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please? "
Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. Cancel culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please? "
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution. |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc "
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Most definitely. We have gone fro a tolerant society to "if I don't agree with it, cancel it"
A lot of people have different opinions, some I vehemently disagree with, but opinions are like arse holes, everyone has it. Today's youth seem unable to co.prehend the idea of "just not going/listening/paying for it" they have to make a song and dance and petition about it.  |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution. "
I've never understood a seat of learning or its students denying themselves the opportunity to question someone's views and broaden their awareness of all aspects of the world |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. Cancel culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks "
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution.
I've never understood a seat of learning or its students denying themselves the opportunity to question someone's views and broaden their awareness of all aspects of the world "
Exactly, I'm sure it's far more productive to first listen to why they may have such views and then use it as an opportunity to challenge them and have a discussion about it. Not just scream "shut it down", at which point you will learn nothing and miss the opportunity to challenge it. |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech."
There's a fine line isn't there. |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution.
I've never understood a seat of learning or its students denying themselves the opportunity to question someone's views and broaden their awareness of all aspects of the world
Exactly, I'm sure it's far more productive to first listen to why they may have such views and then use it as an opportunity to challenge them and have a discussion about it. Not just scream "shut it down", at which point you will learn nothing and miss the opportunity to challenge it. "
At one time our universities were full of radical, original thinkers. I hope they still are |
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Having just googled it (I've never heard the term either) it appears to be just a snappy catchphrase for a fairly ordinary, unremarkable social phenomenon. I suppose yes, "cancel culture" does exist. It always has, but never had a clever alliterated name before. Remember when people stopped shopping at Ratners when the owner called their products "cheap tat" and insulted the people who bought it? When people stopped buying Pantera records and going to their shows after Phil Anselmo dr*nkenly spouted white power vitriol and did nazi salutes on stage? When the sizeable support for Blair as prime minister plummeted to almost zero after the Iraq inquiry? How Michael Barrymore suddenly ceased to be the nations favourite family entertainer after a body turned up in his pool? How so many people boycott big brand cosmetics because of animal testing, don't listen to Gary Glitter or the Lostprophets any more, no longer trust the BBC after operation yewtree?
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution.
I've never understood a seat of learning or its students denying themselves the opportunity to question someone's views and broaden their awareness of all aspects of the world
Exactly, I'm sure it's far more productive to first listen to why they may have such views and then use it as an opportunity to challenge them and have a discussion about it. Not just scream "shut it down", at which point you will learn nothing and miss the opportunity to challenge it. "
Having been in this situation the main issue is less the appearance and more the promotion. I too believe questioning someone is the best way to gain access to a viewpoint however when you give people of that ilk a platform it will undoubtedly generate publicity. In doing so you are furthering their cause.
I don’t believe in inherently cancelling someone but the idea of standing against something you’re passionate about is only good in the grand scheme. Stopping someone or something from generating publicity which is exactly what happens when something gets stopped is for the most part a good thing. But there are people that take it too far. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech."
Or having to accept the consequences of abusing the freedom of speech? |
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"Having just googled it (I've never heard the term either) it appears to be just a snappy catchphrase for a fairly ordinary, unremarkable social phenomenon. I suppose yes, "cancel culture" does exist. It always has, but never had a clever alliterated name before. Remember when people stopped shopping at Ratners when the owner called their products "cheap tat" and insulted the people who bought it? When people stopped buying Pantera records and going to their shows after Phil Anselmo dr*nkenly spouted white power vitriol and did nazi salutes on stage? When the sizeable support for Blair as prime minister plummeted to almost zero after the Iraq inquiry? How Michael Barrymore suddenly ceased to be the nations favourite family entertainer after a body turned up in his pool? How so many people boycott big brand cosmetics because of animal testing, don't listen to Gary Glitter or the Lostprophets any more, no longer trust the BBC after operation yewtree?
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account.""
Well put |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech.
Or having to accept the consequences of abusing the freedom of speech?"
Well this is the thing about freedom of speech. Firstly we don’t actually have it in England. The concept and ‘right’ is an American thing. We have freedom of expression and that in itself is still governed by law. I know I’m going to the extremes on this but for the concept of the argument you need to take both ends at the best and worst |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech."
You mean like the way Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudary were put in jail to deny them their "Freedom of speech"
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech.
You mean like the way Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudary were put in jail to deny them their "Freedom of speech"
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. "
I don't think anyone has said it does. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account.""
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
Stopping supporting a brand or person etc
Oh right. Similar to how I refused to buy South African produce during the apartheid years. Thanks
Sort of. At the extreme it could mean the person is denied any platform to speak on - which could be argued that it is a form of censorship and denial of freedom to speech.
You mean like the way Abu Hamza and Anjem Choudary were put in jail to deny them their "Freedom of speech"
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. "
No. There are already laws against actual hate speech and incitement to violence. Which would cover the two people you mentioned. |
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"Having just googled it (I've never heard the term either) it appears to be just a snappy catchphrase for a fairly ordinary, unremarkable social phenomenon. I suppose yes, "cancel culture" does exist. It always has, but never had a clever alliterated name before. Remember when people stopped shopping at Ratners when the owner called their products "cheap tat" and insulted the people who bought it? When people stopped buying Pantera records and going to their shows after Phil Anselmo dr*nkenly spouted white power vitriol and did nazi salutes on stage? When the sizeable support for Blair as prime minister plummeted to almost zero after the Iraq inquiry? How Michael Barrymore suddenly ceased to be the nations favourite family entertainer after a body turned up in his pool? How so many people boycott big brand cosmetics because of animal testing, don't listen to Gary Glitter or the Lostprophets any more, no longer trust the BBC after operation yewtree?
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account.""
Yes. It's new right wing speak for stuff that's always happened. You do something that a section of the population find unacceptable? You might lose support or opportunities.
Except apparently the lefties are out to get people by doing the same thing people have done forever, because they have a slogan |
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I'm not entirely sure it actually exists. Even celebrities who have had their appearance at an event cancelled, it often makes the news. And then often debated on certain TV and radio programs. And the person can still get their opinions heard via social media. Often the cancellation of the event gives them more attention than the actual event. |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'? "
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred. |
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"I'm not entirely sure it actually exists. Even celebrities who have had their appearance at an event cancelled, it often makes the news. And then often debated on certain TV and radio programs. And the person can still get their opinions heard via social media. Often the cancellation of the event gives them more attention than the actual event. "
Yeah. They're so oppressed and their speech is so stifled, as they express their opinion more freely and to a much wider audience. So oppressed. Not at all heard. |
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Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred."
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred."
It's insensitive at worst. It's her opinion, hardly criminal.... |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"Ahh this seems to be an alternative to "no platforming". In that case yes it happens.
Is it always a good or bad thing. As with all things, sometimes. "
Cancelling goes further than no platforming and attempts to disrupt that persons social media presence and following. Essentially it’s left wing fascism and censorship using social media
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anything is real if you think it is..... 
Some ppl think I am dick, and therefore I am a dick to some ppl. I think I'm alright though....  "
Everyone is a dick at some point. It's human.
Some people think you are awesome. Think of them.  |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"How is this different to botcotting? Or does boycotting only apply to businesses?  "
Boycotting is against business or people who support an idea a type of direct action. culture jamming is similar, but using memes, cancelling is different it’s very personal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anything is real if you think it is.....
Some ppl think I am dick, and therefore I am a dick to some ppl. I think I'm alright though....
Everyone is a dick at some point. It's human.
Some people think you are awesome. Think of them. "
This is my point! If you believe it, then it's the truth to you. When we ask if something exists, then if it has a name then of course it does....! Some ppl might rather it didn't exist I guess and hence the comments to the contrary.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes cancel culture exists. There is no forum for debate anymore, no middle ground. You either agree or your wrong. Look at Antifa and the far left movements, anything remotely middle ground is deemed far right. |
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"Yes cancel culture exists. There is no forum for debate anymore, no middle ground. You either agree or your wrong. Look at Antifa and the far left movements, anything remotely middle ground is deemed far right."
Not sure about that but there does seem to be a move toward s polarisation.
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"Ahh this seems to be an alternative to "no platforming". In that case yes it happens.
Is it always a good or bad thing. As with all things, sometimes.
Cancelling goes further than no platforming and attempts to disrupt that persons social media presence and following. Essentially it’s left wing fascism and censorship using social media
"
What is left wing facism exactly? |
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"Having just googled it (I've never heard the term either) it appears to be just a snappy catchphrase for a fairly ordinary, unremarkable social phenomenon. I suppose yes, "cancel culture" does exist. It always has, but never had a clever alliterated name before. Remember when people stopped shopping at Ratners when the owner called their products "cheap tat" and insulted the people who bought it? When people stopped buying Pantera records and going to their shows after Phil Anselmo dr*nkenly spouted white power vitriol and did nazi salutes on stage? When the sizeable support for Blair as prime minister plummeted to almost zero after the Iraq inquiry? How Michael Barrymore suddenly ceased to be the nations favourite family entertainer after a body turned up in his pool? How so many people boycott big brand cosmetics because of animal testing, don't listen to Gary Glitter or the Lostprophets any more, no longer trust the BBC after operation yewtree?
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
Yes. It's new right wing speak for stuff that's always happened. You do something that a section of the population find unacceptable? You might lose support or opportunities.
Except apparently the lefties are out to get people by doing the same thing people have done forever, because they have a slogan "
Agreed
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"Having just googled it (I've never heard the term either) it appears to be just a snappy catchphrase for a fairly ordinary, unremarkable social phenomenon. I suppose yes, "cancel culture" does exist. It always has, but never had a clever alliterated name before. Remember when people stopped shopping at Ratners when the owner called their products "cheap tat" and insulted the people who bought it? When people stopped buying Pantera records and going to their shows after Phil Anselmo dr*nkenly spouted white power vitriol and did nazi salutes on stage? When the sizeable support for Blair as prime minister plummeted to almost zero after the Iraq inquiry? How Michael Barrymore suddenly ceased to be the nations favourite family entertainer after a body turned up in his pool? How so many people boycott big brand cosmetics because of animal testing, don't listen to Gary Glitter or the Lostprophets any more, no longer trust the BBC after operation yewtree?
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account.""
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ahh this seems to be an alternative to "no platforming". In that case yes it happens.
Is it always a good or bad thing. As with all things, sometimes.
Cancelling goes further than no platforming and attempts to disrupt that persons social media presence and following. Essentially it’s left wing fascism and censorship using social media
What is left wing facism exactly?"
left wing extremists who behave in a similar way to right wing extremists |
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"Ahh this seems to be an alternative to "no platforming". In that case yes it happens.
Is it always a good or bad thing. As with all things, sometimes.
Cancelling goes further than no platforming and attempts to disrupt that persons social media presence and following. Essentially it’s left wing fascism and censorship using social media
What is left wing facism exactly? left wing extremists who behave in a similar way to right wing extremists"
Go round beating people up,murdering people,doing nazi salutes,hounding minorities etc? |
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"Oh and yes it does. Social media and the use of platform power and the power to convene has enabled it."
As said above it's always existed it's just been given a natty name.
Social media has prob made it more visible but seems like another white lives do matter too type argument. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity."
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession. |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
Yes it happens and has always happened - it's not the doctrine of a particular "wing" either - it is essentially (as an earlier poster said) "being held to account" it's just it now has a label, nothing more nothing less.
It happens and has been happening since the dawn of time, it happens to celebrities and corporations and in this media age it happens in smaller microcosms of life such as Fab - say the wrong thing or offend the offended and you're holding yourself up for a trip to Coventry and worse.
It's just that these days with so much of life being lived out on-line that it's a lot more prevalent. |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession. "
But that's just the downside of social media.
Every crackpot in the world gets a voice. |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession. "
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another? |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
It's insensitive at worst. It's her opinion, hardly criminal.... "
Correct. It's not criminal. If it were criminal it would be dealt with under criminal law, as already pointed out.
She is very much entitled to her opinion. But she is not entitled to be free of consequence for voicing that opinion. Her many "insensitive" or as I'd word it "deeply offensive" expressions of her opinion have upset, offended, and angered a lot of people. Those people no longer support her or her work, and some or exercising their own right to an opinion in pointing out that targeting a highly marginalised minority with your nasty vitriol is a pretty fucking shitty way to behave.
People are withdrawing support and expressing their opinion. It's hardly criminal. |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession.
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?"
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" |
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Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession.
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" "
Quite |
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Cancel culture should not be seen in terms of party politics. All sides engage in partisan presentation. Both sides benefit from cancel culture as it eliminates the messy middle ground.
Not just do you agree with me, but do you actively agree with me. I will look, and check, and watch, in so many new ways for any sign of wavering in social media. I will not do of course, but my acolytes will, and build their prestige and influencer status up if you slip and THEY are the one to catch it.
Consider the Muppet with opinion who writes better blurb than an academic specialist of 40 years. Who gets the airtime or likes? Or
lifetimes of positive careers screwed by an ill judged remark that creates the perfect soundbite to become meme-of-the-day.
No wonder businesses and individuals veer away from public debate when toxicity can come from a global outfield.
Cancel culture on one level is old old news, but on another, its speed, complete UNaccountability and nebulous zeitgeist driven agenda is brand new and the perfect weapon for extremists of every complexion.
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
"
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" "
True but in some instances who is the more equal? Those speaking out for their beliefs and/or opinions or those that seek to silence them? |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession.
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?"
Germaine Greer is another example. She has made numerous contentious remarks that have seen her banned from speaking at university debates (no platformed).
In my opinion, to hold her to account for her views would be to allow her to speak and then debate the issue democratically. |
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"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession.
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?
Germaine Greer is another example. She has made numerous contentious remarks that have seen her banned from speaking at university debates (no platformed).
In my opinion, to hold her to account for her views would be to allow her to speak and then debate the issue democratically."
Or take away a prestige when she acts in a way that is unbecoming of that prestige.
While she finds umpteen other platforms.
Actions. Consequences. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yes. Cancel culture exists. But it used to be called "Being held to account."
But it can also be seen as 'holding to account' people who do not have extreme or reprehensible views - but those who are questioning, or being critical, of particular views.
Should JK Rowling have been 'held to account' for saying that women should be called women and not 'people who menstruate'?
No. Because that's not what she said. She said that all people who menstruate are women. Which is not only inherently untrue, it's wilfully confrontational to the rights and dignity of trans people and a dog-whistle call to hatred.
Everyone should be held to account. Question what they say and why. It's how we learn, grow, and do better.
I'm a person who menstruates. That takes nothing from my gender identity.
But to some people it does or implies to. I think they have the democratic right to state their point of view and debate the issue rather than being "cancelled"
I don't think JK Rowling has been held to account, she's been told to shut up and accept somebody else's point of view and called to be boycotted.
A manifestation of this is the outcry over the actress Jody Comer's choice of boyfriend. For daring to date an American Rebulican voter (and Trump supporter) people have called out for her to be denied acting work and effectively ostracized from her profession.
They do have a right to speak. But why is one side said to be speaking and another side said to be silencing? They're both speaking. Or is one side more allowed to speak than another?
Germaine Greer is another example. She has made numerous contentious remarks that have seen her banned from speaking at university debates (no platformed).
In my opinion, to hold her to account for her views would be to allow her to speak and then debate the issue democratically.
Or take away a prestige when she acts in a way that is unbecoming of that prestige.
While she finds umpteen other platforms.
Actions. Consequences."
Or pushing her into a corner/box and furthering division.....
..... actions/consequences... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you can't win a debate or reach some form of agreement with someone who is wrong then they are dangerously right and you need to rethink why....
If we censor ppl then we lose the ability to understand what we think is wrong with their pov and when they rise up in the future we'll wonder why we have no answers and bad things happen. Always debate, even if you agree to disagree at the end, at least you'll have a better understanding and respect for each other, coz nobody ever really "goes away" innit.... |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
The problem in recent times with people being held to account via public media is that in a lot of instances it's a case of "guilty until proven innocent" rather than the other way round - and in some instances when someone has acted in a particularly abhorrent way to the whole of society that is entirely justified - however more often than not in the cases we hear of it's a contentious and debatable point that sees a minority group try and hold someone to account for expressing an opinion that may go against their own beliefs but may not be understood or even go against the beliefs of the majority.
The JK Rowling instance is a good one - I don't pretend to understand completely the very complex nature of what a very specific minority group of people are seeking to "cancel" her for, and as such silencing her detracts from that understanding, and potentially alienates that minority further. Debating the issue in a clear and rational way in that instance would surely help the cause of those offended by what she has had to say, which as I understand it has to an extent been blown out of proportion somewhat from her original comments by both sides of the argument.
Simply seeking to silence someone for their views and opinions is borderline similar to the actions of extremists on both the left and right that we saw throughout the 20th century and right up to today. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
Cancel culture at its core is nothing new. However its extremities and reach is so much more thanks to social media.
Boycotting and holding accountability is one thing but cancel culture takes it to not only stating they do not share or support somebodies views but goes to the extreme of destroying any type of reputation or influence. Quite often due to little more than rumours and gossip as a source.
Cancel culture has become witch hunts and bandwagon hate agenda's towards celebrities and Internet influences (YouTube creaters mostly).
There are many (insane numbers actually) of such cases going on currently, most of those are not mainstream media things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cancel culture at its core is nothing new. However its extremities and reach is so much more thanks to social media.
Boycotting and holding accountability is one thing but cancel culture takes it to not only stating they do not share or support somebodies views but goes to the extreme of destroying any type of reputation or influence. Quite often due to little more than rumours and gossip as a source.
Cancel culture has become witch hunts and bandwagon hate agenda's towards celebrities and Internet influences (YouTube creaters mostly).
There are many (insane numbers actually) of such cases going on currently, most of those are not mainstream media things. "
Happens on my threads.....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The thing about ideas and theories though is that they go out of date and new ideas and theories come along to replace them.
All the ideas about cancel culture, gender, sex, identity politics will be seen at some point in the future to be wrong and out of date.
Whether the phrase 'people who menstruate' is 'right' or 'wrong' is unimportant (today it may be seen as 'correct' tomorrow as 'incorrect').
What is important is the phrase should be able to be held up for critiscism and critical examination and debated without fear of some sort of reprisal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The thing about ideas and theories though is that they go out of date and new ideas and theories come along to replace them.
All the ideas about cancel culture, gender, sex, identity politics will be seen at some point in the future to be wrong and out of date.
Whether the phrase 'people who menstruate' is 'right' or 'wrong' is unimportant (today it may be seen as 'correct' tomorrow as 'incorrect').
What is important is the phrase should be able to be held up for critiscism and critical examination and debated without fear of some sort of reprisal."
Maybe cc dictates that future....? |
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"How is this different to botcotting? Or does boycotting only apply to businesses? "
You have the right to boycott any person or business if you disagree with them.I have that right too,everyone does. I don't believe it's right for you,me or anyone else to deny others the opportunity to hear that person speak or to use that business.
That,to me,is what 'cancel culture' is all about. 'I disagree,and I won't allow everyone else to make up their own minds either.' It's the thought police in action. |
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By *ip2Man
over a year ago
Near Maidenhead |
This is touched on in the textbook Cyberpsychology (Gordo-López, Parker). It says that cybernetic science "treats not *things* but *ways of behaving*".
I share the anxiety about whether this behaviour is really constructive.
Time spent talking about a thing you don't want actually draws attention to it and means you miss an opportunity to talk about better alternatives? |
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"Cancel culture" is a meaningless phrase. The Times wrote about this and included people like Scarlet Johansson as being "cancelled". She's still in films. She still earns millions of dollars. It's complete nonsense.
Who has actually had their careers destroyed by being "cancelled"? |
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No, there is no such thing as cancel culture.
There is a culture of not putting up with racist attitudes, transphobia and homophobia, and not listening to those people is not cancel culture. That’s just the attempt at privilege not liking pushback.
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
""Cancel culture" is a meaningless phrase. The Times wrote about this and included people like Scarlet Johansson as being "cancelled". She's still in films. She still earns millions of dollars. It's complete nonsense.
Who has actually had their careers destroyed by being "cancelled"? "
The rich and famous main stream, not as many as have been targeted.
However head on over to YouTube and similar such streaming sites, or "influencers", and so many channels and brands have been ripped apart and destroyed by cancel culture. People's lives destroyed by witch hunts based on gossip and rumours.
Cancel culture is so much more than mainstream media. |
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""Cancel culture" is a meaningless phrase. The Times wrote about this and included people like Scarlet Johansson as being "cancelled". She's still in films. She still earns millions of dollars. It's complete nonsense.
Who has actually had their careers destroyed by being "cancelled"?
The rich and famous main stream, not as many as have been targeted.
However head on over to YouTube and similar such streaming sites, or "influencers", and so many channels and brands have been ripped apart and destroyed by cancel culture. People's lives destroyed by witch hunts based on gossip and rumours.
Cancel culture is so much more than mainstream media. "
Such as who? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How is this different to botcotting? Or does boycotting only apply to businesses?
You have the right to boycott any person or business if you disagree with them.I have that right too,everyone does. I don't believe it's right for you,me or anyone else to deny others the opportunity to hear that person speak or to use that business.
That,to me,is what 'cancel culture' is all about. 'I disagree,and I won't allow everyone else to make up their own minds either.' It's the thought police in action."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most definitely. We have gone fro a tolerant society to "if I don't agree with it, cancel it"
A lot of people have different opinions, some I vehemently disagree with, but opinions are like arse holes, everyone has it. Today's youth seem unable to co.prehend the idea of "just not going/listening/paying for it" they have to make a song and dance and petition about it. "
OK but for one major aspect: if you are invited to give a talk at a Uni, the Uni is effectively condoning the speaker in some extent. If you are an international best-selling author with corporate sponsors, the sponsors condone to some extent your views. It's more than having your opinion. Cancel culture is just a new term for something people have always done ie if an acquaintance has views you don't like, or views that could get you into troubles by association, you just distantiate yourself.
Some opinions stink anyway and the freedom of speech argument is a fallacious argument. |
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"This has passed me by. What is cancel culture please?
If a university has booked someone to give a talk who might have perceived controversial views then there might be a campaign to stop that person coming to talk - because the person's views may cause offence. If there is enough pressure then the university will cancel the talk.
The person has effectively been cancelled and prevented from giving their views at that institution.
I've never understood a seat of learning or its students denying themselves the opportunity to question someone's views and broaden their awareness of all aspects of the world "
^this.
Counter intuitive, surely?
I can remember when our universities taught people to hold the opposite view for the sake of challenging a held belief.
Once upon a time it was seen as a huge benefit.
Alas, no more.....
Look at the Young Americans stuff on YouTube.
Invited speakers being shouted down, abused, denied the opportunity to discuss and debate.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
At one time our universities were full of radical, original thinkers. I hope they still are"
They probably are but the radical ideas maybe ones you don't agree with.
If identity politics, safe spaces, no platforming, cancel culure et al weren't seen as radical they probably wouldn't be garnering so much attention and debate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The thing about ideas and theories though is that they go out of date and new ideas and theories come along to replace them.
All the ideas about cancel culture, gender, sex, identity politics will be seen at some point in the future to be wrong and out of date.
Whether the phrase 'people who menstruate' is 'right' or 'wrong' is unimportant (today it may be seen as 'correct' tomorrow as 'incorrect').
What is important is the phrase should be able to be held up for critiscism and critical examination and debated without fear of some sort of reprisal.
Maybe cc dictates that future....?"
And it might be the future if the young still hold to the same ideals as they get older.
Todays activist is tomorrows politician.
But as younger generations come after them they will find the ideas they hold to be 'true' today challenged by new 'radical' ideas or changed in ways they hadn't thought of.
The young want to build a society which they think will solve perceived injustices but will, probably, end up with one with the same injustices (and perhaps some new ones).
I tend to see 'progressives' as imagining there is an end place and a roadmap to get there. They wish to move forward and reach. a. goal. But the goalposts keep moving. |
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