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Backseat doctors, statisticians, epidemiologists etc.
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Yep have a science PhD and fully admit I know crap all about certain aspects of science. Don't think it means that people who aren't experts can't comment and add to the debate. Think it's important that scientists learn to talk to lay people and make us less scary |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep have a science PhD and fully admit I know crap all about certain aspects of science. Don't think it means that people who aren't experts can't comment and add to the debate. Think it's important that scientists learn to talk to lay people and make us less scary "
I think this is a really important thing. Providing the other person is willing to listen of course
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep have a science PhD and fully admit I know crap all about certain aspects of science. Don't think it means that people who aren't experts can't comment and add to the debate. Think it's important that scientists learn to talk to lay people and make us less scary "
Hello Doc  |
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"Yep have a science PhD and fully admit I know crap all about certain aspects of science. Don't think it means that people who aren't experts can't comment and add to the debate. Think it's important that scientists learn to talk to lay people and make us less scary I think this is a really important thing. Providing the other person is willing to listen of course "
Can only lead a horse to water unfortunately |
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science  "
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It goes with anything really. Certainly I’ve had people in my life make me question my entire education because of how certain they are that their opinion is correct. But as said, can we really blame them in the era that we live in? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line."
You're saying Bill Gates haven't spread the virus with 5G network towers?
Mind blown!
I can't blame them but when I see their opinions poised as facts I do wonder how they survive their day to day life. |
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"That reminds me. My piles are giving me gyp. Need to make an appointment to see the "backdoor" doctor..."
I'm not a backdoor doctor but I'm sure YouTube will make me a world expert in half an hour |
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line.
You're saying Bill Gates haven't spread the virus with 5G network towers?
Mind blown!
I can't blame them but when I see their opinions poised as facts I do wonder how they survive their day to day life."
I agree, it's as though the world at moment can't see two sides of an argument and make an informed decision. Everything is very polar with people which isn't healthy in my opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People can educate themselves too. People can know their own bodies, their own experience, their own truth better than someone that's memorised something from a textbook and applies it to everything |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line.
You're saying Bill Gates haven't spread the virus with 5G network towers?
Mind blown!
I can't blame them but when I see their opinions poised as facts I do wonder how they survive their day to day life.
I agree, it's as though the world at moment can't see two sides of an argument and make an informed decision. Everything is very polar with people which isn't healthy in my opinion."
I try to do it as much as possible without investing too much resources into it. But I'm sure as hell not going to blindly support one way or the other! Conservative or liberal they're both shady as hell in their politics.
Company a or company b, they're both trying to make profit at the end of the day so I have no brand loyalty.
Believe what you want but for god sake please do adequate research before spreading missinformation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you want an answer ask an expert.
If you want ten different answers then ask ten experts.
I've never seen a load of panic inducing hokum in these last few months.
I already know there'll be a load of experts crawling out to say lockdown was the worse thing.
So be snotty at tabloid readers but we dont state bullshit as fact and dont print bullshit to be believed.
I'd rather be stupid than smart arse stupid.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"People can educate themselves too. People can know their own bodies, their own experience, their own truth better than someone that's memorised something from a textbook and applies it to everything"
That's true, but you don't base facts and statistics from a singular example.
So we shouldn't stop vaccinating kids just because there's a chance it may go wrong.
Or we should start thinking the earth is flat because you don't see the curvature when you look at the horizon at sea.
Yes we can self educate but there's a reason we have an education system and with every textbook released we release an updated version as science and research progresses.
We know our bodies very well and are sometimes unique examples but that doesn't mean we can't learn from frurther studying  |
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Why is everybody in here so intelligent, reasonable and open to discussion? I mean it's just not normal is it?  I do appreciate the fact that things are less polarised in here and that people can disagree in a civilised fashion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!! |
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" Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!!"
Yes the art of debate is a rare thing these days in my opinion. Being a scientific I rarely know things I research are 100% fact, I deal with the available evidence and postulate the reason behind it. As I've said in a previous post I don't know everything and I never ever will even in my area of expertise. I'm always open to learn and see other people options, without it becoming a personal attack even if it's years worth of work. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!!
Yes the art of debate is a rare thing these days in my opinion. Being a scientific I rarely know things I research are 100% fact, I deal with the available evidence and postulate the reason behind it. As I've said in a previous post I don't know everything and I never ever will even in my area of expertise. I'm always open to learn and see other people options, without it becoming a personal attack even if it's years worth of work."
This is why doctors often get a tough time. They can only suggest a best case scenario at that time to their knowledge. If something drastically changes the very next day for the worse but couldn't have been anticipated beforehand, they get a lot of scrutiny. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!!
Yes the art of debate is a rare thing these days in my opinion. Being a scientific I rarely know things I research are 100% fact, I deal with the available evidence and postulate the reason behind it. As I've said in a previous post I don't know everything and I never ever will even in my area of expertise. I'm always open to learn and see other people options, without it becoming a personal attack even if it's years worth of work."
Absolutely. We all know statistics give us the questions to ask not answers! And the refraining of seeing things as a personal attack is the most fundamental aspect.
Some subjects are becoming impossible to debate, for fear of backlash at suggesting a different opinion to popular views?
I digress slightly, but how many times have we seen a video of someones actions placed on social media for a public lynching, as opposed to a polite challenge of the behaviour to debate what's happening?
Raise your argument not your voice! |
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" Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!!
Yes the art of debate is a rare thing these days in my opinion. Being a scientific I rarely know things I research are 100% fact, I deal with the available evidence and postulate the reason behind it. As I've said in a previous post I don't know everything and I never ever will even in my area of expertise. I'm always open to learn and see other people options, without it becoming a personal attack even if it's years worth of work.
This is why doctors often get a tough time. They can only suggest a best case scenario at that time to their knowledge. If something drastically changes the very next day for the worse but couldn't have been anticipated beforehand, they get a lot of scrutiny."
And I think this is debilitating for doctors. They can only do their best with the evidence they see in front of them. We all make decisions in every day life and sometimes it goes wrong and it's nobodies fault. Doctors are not superhuman they cannot predict the future. |
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" Very true, but it's not just related to subjects that you suggest?
Theres so many people making 'statements ' as fact, as opposed to posing a theory or observation.
I think we're sadly losing the art of debate, and failing to see it as a two way conversation, and more of something you have to win at? That's perhaps why it's happening? Though now I'm paranoid I've made an unsubstantiated statement!!
Yes the art of debate is a rare thing these days in my opinion. Being a scientific I rarely know things I research are 100% fact, I deal with the available evidence and postulate the reason behind it. As I've said in a previous post I don't know everything and I never ever will even in my area of expertise. I'm always open to learn and see other people options, without it becoming a personal attack even if it's years worth of work.
Absolutely. We all know statistics give us the questions to ask not answers! And the refraining of seeing things as a personal attack is the most fundamental aspect.
Some subjects are becoming impossible to debate, for fear of backlash at suggesting a different opinion to popular views?
I digress slightly, but how many times have we seen a video of someones actions placed on social media for a public lynching, as opposed to a polite challenge of the behaviour to debate what's happening?
Raise your argument not your voice!"
Like that quote going to steal that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line.
You're saying Bill Gates haven't spread the virus with 5G network towers?
Mind blown!
I can't blame them but when I see their opinions poised as facts I do wonder how they survive their day to day life.
I agree, it's as though the world at moment can't see two sides of an argument and make an informed decision. Everything is very polar with people which isn't healthy in my opinion."
I think therein lies the issue. They only see two sides. I’m right you’re wrong. Most haven’t developed to scientific thinking and even the scientists often see it in a dichotomous way. Appreciating multiple perspectives and the complexity of ‘reality’, as well as being able to see that all of them are still just constructions of the mind, are at least a couple of evolutionary steps, in terms of consciousness, beyond where the majority of the population are. |
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By *erdyWoman
over a year ago
wiltshire |
"People can educate themselves too. People can know their own bodies, their own experience, their own truth better than someone that's memorised something from a textbook and applies it to everything"
hear hear  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People can educate themselves too. People can know their own bodies, their own experience, their own truth better than someone that's memorised something from a textbook and applies it to everythinghear hear "
First person research is very important as it tell us about my internal world and how I make sense of my experience,, but it needs to be validated through research with others (2nd person research), and scientific method (third person research) if we are to be rigorous about developing understanding and knowledge.. |
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science
But can we blame them? We've had successive governments saying we can't "experts" and that scientists are some kind of horror story characters. As a scientific community I think we've really got to increase our public engagement. It may stop people believing some conspiracy theory they've seen on line.
You're saying Bill Gates haven't spread the virus with 5G network towers?
Mind blown!
I can't blame them but when I see their opinions poised as facts I do wonder how they survive their day to day life.
I agree, it's as though the world at moment can't see two sides of an argument and make an informed decision. Everything is very polar with people which isn't healthy in my opinion.
I think therein lies the issue. They only see two sides. I’m right you’re wrong. Most haven’t developed to scientific thinking and even the scientists often see it in a dichotomous way. Appreciating multiple perspectives and the complexity of ‘reality’, as well as being able to see that all of them are still just constructions of the mind, are at least a couple of evolutionary steps, in terms of consciousness, beyond where the majority of the population are."
Wise words as always, I think most of us want to believe we're right. I do believe in open and honest discussion and then learn from it. However, it is difficult when people are so stuck in their own beliefs. But I keep at it with reasoned debate, and I'll keep going out doing public engagement. We live the society we do, I accept that doesn't mean I don't try to change it. |
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"Don't you just love their ranty facts after they've read a few tabloid articles and become experts in fields of science "
Just pop down to the Virus and Spain sections, all the experts are down there. Daren't go in the Politics section  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah we should just all be quiet and and obey our masters and have no opinions whatsoever. "
I dont think that was the crux of the debate? We can all think as we wish, but maybe consider the source of our information carefully before passing it on in an informative matter? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In my expert opinion all the other experts are talking through their expert arses, apart from Trump he's just a dick.
*My expert opinion may differ to other expert decisions and is basically bollocks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don’t know much, but what I do know, I know.
Was having this discussion earlier in the week. People are so adamant they’re right without ever actually doing some independent research it drives me up the wall! I tend to just ignore them all now |
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