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dr strike
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us."
there is slightly different...
4 years ago the BMA and the then govt came to a deal with regards to pension reforms... which actually benefits the govt to the tune of about 2 billion a year to the chancellor
now the govt have rippped up that deal and now are imposing one on them.....
so you can understand why doctors are just a bit miffed..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us.
there is slightly different...
4 years ago the BMA and the then govt came to a deal with regards to pension reforms... which actually benefits the govt to the tune of about 2 billion a year to the chancellor
now the govt have rippped up that deal and now are imposing one on them.....
so you can understand why doctors are just a bit miffed..... "
Its happened/ing to everyone Fabio. I've been told I can no longer go early, and must do an extra 8 YEARS, for the same pension. Not chuffed about it at all.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Bugger. I thought this was a thread about a new comic book baddy!
Is it just GPs walking out?"
there will be no routine ops or gp's and out patients only things done will be emergencies
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language..  "
I speak to countless doctors on a daily basis and I only speak English. Don;t think I've ever had a problem communicating... 
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us.
there is slightly different...
4 years ago the BMA and the then govt came to a deal with regards to pension reforms... which actually benefits the govt to the tune of about 2 billion a year to the chancellor
now the govt have rippped up that deal and now are imposing one on them.....
so you can understand why doctors are just a bit miffed.....
Its happened/ing to everyone Fabio. I've been told I can no longer go early, and must do an extra 8 YEARS, for the same pension. Not chuffed about it at all. "
you are right it has happened to all of us what i'm pointing out is as it's dr's people take notice. But the nhs consitists of far more than dr's infact they are a very small portion of a hospital working |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language..
I speak to countless doctors on a daily basis and I only speak English. Don;t think I've ever had a problem communicating...
lucking you i often have language barriers with the ones i talk to
"
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language.."
do they work in this country, healing this country' sick??? if the answer is yes then yes it does include them  |
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language..
I speak to countless doctors on a daily basis and I only speak English. Don;t think I've ever had a problem communicating...
lucking you i often have language barriers with the ones i talk to
"
is that because you use words like lucking??? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language..
I speak to countless doctors on a daily basis and I only speak English. Don;t think I've ever had a problem communicating...
lucking you i often have language barriers with the ones i talk to.
fortunately my talking is better than my keybords skills after a wine x not that i drink wine at work !
is that because you use words like lucking??? "
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"Bless em...must be terrible living on the bread line.
Do you know what most doctors earn ?"
Anything from 60k -hundreds of k's...especially the ones in partnerships..
Perhaps they just need to accept that they are going to end up with a shit pension like the rest of us..like nurses, and auxiliaries, care workers..who actually care for people hands on as opposed to referring people to hospitals for checks, passing the information back, looking up what the prescription should be and writing it..
Yes they are needed, they do a grand job sometimes..but im not going to start feeling sorry for them..
Ever seen a poor one?
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"our poor suffering doctors - Does that include the ones that can hardly speak or write any english language.."
I worked in hospitals and pharmacies connected to doctors surgeries for years....not once did I encounter a doctor that could hardly speak or write English....but don't let that stop you from thinking otherwise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us.
there is slightly different...
4 years ago the BMA and the then govt came to a deal with regards to pension reforms... which actually benefits the govt to the tune of about 2 billion a year to the chancellor
now the govt have rippped up that deal and now are imposing one on them.....
so you can understand why doctors are just a bit miffed..... "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a carer for a family member and have seen first hand how hard doctors AND nurses work. Nurses do a lot of work on behalf of docs on wards at least and I know many docs AND nurses go way beyond what could be expected of them. I don't know the politics of it and wont try and say I do I just see what they do for the person I care for and I wouldn't want either job for the stick they get but I also don't think carers get a fair time either but that's for a different forum topic |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
And some only get around £2000 per week which must be hard.
Ok they do a good job but so do a lot of folk some very dangerous jobs and a lot had agreements that have also been ripped up so why should this one group be exempt from the imposed changes .
The only pensions that have not been touched are the MPs even Goerge Orwell couldnt write a book with characters that resemble that lot.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The nhs and other government workers get a final salary pension scheme which the tax payer pays approx 20% of their council tax to fund. The cost of these schemes will go up and up. Why shouldn't the workers either pay more contributions or get slightly less benefits towards their pensions if they want their expensive schemes to continue?
A final salary scheme is very expensive to run. In the private sector this is now a luxury that very few companies offer. Most workers now get offered a defined contribution scheme if any.
Waits for the backlash...... |
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"Bless em...must be terrible living on the bread line.
Do you know what most doctors earn ?
Anything from 60k -hundreds of k's...especially the ones in partnerships..
Perhaps they just need to accept that they are going to end up with a shit pension like the rest of us..like nurses, and auxiliaries, care workers..who actually care for people hands on as opposed to referring people to hospitals for checks, passing the information back, looking up what the prescription should be and writing it..
Yes they are needed, they do a grand job sometimes..but im not going to start feeling sorry for them..
Ever seen a poor one?
"
Um start in £30s |
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"The nhs and other government workers get a final salary pension scheme which the tax payer pays approx 20% of their council tax to fund. The cost of these schemes will go up and up. Why shouldn't the workers either pay more contributions or get slightly less benefits towards their pensions if they want their expensive schemes to continue?
A final salary scheme is very expensive to run. In the private sector this is now a luxury that very few companies offer. Most workers now get offered a defined contribution scheme if any.
Waits for the backlash......"
Just how ill informed can one person be |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Apologies approx 20% of your council tax goes towards local government pension schemes, in addition you will pay for nhs pensions via tax/NI as nhs contributions are capped at 14% employer contributions. |
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"Apologies approx 20% of your council tax goes towards local government pension schemes, in addition you will pay for nhs pensions via tax/NI as nhs contributions are capped at 14% employer contributions."
Can you tell me where you get that 20% from  |
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I have a lot of sympathy for doctors, especially when they've been tricked out of a hard-fought agreement that came with a bunch of concessions, and now they have to keep the concessions and get less of the benefits.
That said, they're doctors, and striking is irresponsible. There aren't many alternatives to it but they'll lose public sympathy the second they call a strike, because it hurts ordinary people a lot more than it does the government.
Since last october, my mother's been seriously ill in hospital, ranging from almost dying to being ready for discharge and back again, I have a LOT of time and appreciation for medical staff (and at the same time I've seen some very shoddy stuff going on) but if they call a strike and it impacts my mother's care one iota, my rage will be a terrible thing to behold. I can't imagine it'd be any different for anyone else
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A. I used to work for a local authority pension fund the rate was 19.6% of that authorities council tax approx 8 years ago
B. The Tax Payers Alliance
C. Google it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A. I used to work for a local authority pension fund the rate was 19.6% of that authorities council tax approx 8 years ago
B. The Tax Payers Alliance
C. Google it"
In answer to Sam |
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"A. I used to work for a local authority pension fund the rate was 19.6% of that authorities council tax approx 8 years ago
B. The Tax Payers Alliance
C. Google it"
i have cant find anything - thats why i asked |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A. I used to work for a local authority pension fund the rate was 19.6% of that authorities council tax approx 8 years ago
B. The Tax Payers Alliance
C. Google it
i have cant find anything - thats why i asked"
I wandered why there was a smiley as opposed to a question mark at the end of your post.
Google - how your council tax pays to pension fund |
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The Taxpayers Alliance are a group with a political agenda....they ARE NOT an independent source of information.
They take statistics and figures that are freely available through the Freedom of Information Act.....and manipulate them for their own means.
Just like UKIP funnily enough
They leave out the bits that don't suit their argument or don't help push their cause.... |
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My local authority pays around 8.5% of Council Tax into Pension provision for it's employees.....probably around the same as most Major Private Companies take from their income and place into Pension provision..... |
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"A. I used to work for a local authority pension fund the rate was 19.6% of that authorities council tax approx 8 years ago
B. The Tax Payers Alliance
C. Google it
i have cant find anything - thats why i asked
I wandered why there was a smiley as opposed to a question mark at the end of your post.
Google - how your council tax pays to pension fund"
Ok found it but it doesnt support your 20% - by time you factor in the council tax as a percentage of LA funding and how the deficit plan works its actually only about 5% of council tax |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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dont feel sorry for them at all....they still get a big lump sum and a bigger pension per annum than most.... so its not as sweet now.....same for everyone from what I can see. The level off benefits promised in retirement was the problem in first place....it was unrealistic.... sorry doc take ya medicine and play nice xxx |
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"Yeah.....ok when the doctors are treating us all and saving our lives....but fuck 'em when they have earned the right to retire at the end of their career?
Sounds a bit like envy to me"
The investment that people put in to beocome doctors they would be better of in the early part of their careers being plumbers |
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By *lackboaWoman
over a year ago
greenock |
my nhs pension...when i finally get it....will be nothing like my final salary....it'll be about one third......and due to the changes i now have to work 10.....yes 10 years longer than i thought i would when i first qualified..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"my nhs pension...when i finally get it....will be nothing like my final salary....it'll be about one third......and due to the changes i now have to work 10.....yes 10 years longer than i thought i would when i first qualified....."
Very few final salary schemes are set up on a 100% basis, most are 60ths or 80ths of your service multiplied by your average final salary pay for the last 3, 5 or 10 years.
With life expectancy increasing then something has to be done regarding the rising costs of these schemes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah.....ok when the doctors are treating us all and saving our lives....but fuck 'em when they have earned the right to retire at the end of their career?
Sounds a bit like envy to me"
not envy at all lol....I dont expect to recieve my final salary as a pension....I simply made the point were all in same boat....weather a doctor, nurse or road sweeper. also the actual package they are still to recieve is way above the average. the prob as I said is that the promises made about the benefits payable upon returement were not realistic |
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"Yeah.....ok when the doctors are treating us all and saving our lives....but fuck 'em when they have earned the right to retire at the end of their career?
Sounds a bit like envy to me
not envy at all lol....I dont expect to recieve my final salary as a pension....I simply made the point were all in same boat....weather a doctor, nurse or road sweeper. also the actual package they are still to recieve is way above the average. the prob as I said is that the promises made about the benefits payable upon returement were not realistic"
They don't expect to receive their final salary when they retire.... |
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And their pension will be above the national average....because their salary is above the national average.
They can rightly expect to have a pension that is far greater than a refuse collector for instance...because the career that they have chosen is distinctly more difficult to train for, then to qualify for, and to then carry out....than a refuse collector. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm absolutely certain that doctors won't be relying purely on their pension arrangements for when they retire. Most of them will earn quite well during their careers and have money invested in lots of places if they had any sense - which they do or they wouldn't be doctors in the first place.
With that in mind, I think they are being greedy to demand gold-plated pensions from the public purse and they are putting lives at risk by striking. Even one life lost due to industrial action is deplorable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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lets say as an approximation a doctor leaves uni and becomes a practising doc at some level by say age 25-26....retire at say 65...thats approx 40 years service. were all living to 85-90 now...thats 20-25 years retirement time....roughly. thats a massive amount of time to expect a pension to pay 60-80k per annum. Its wrong very wrong that people in all sectors were promised this but its simply not financially possible.....the doctors have to lower thier expectations like rest off us, lets be frank...60k per annum a real nice pension innit. |
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"lets say as an approximation a doctor leaves uni and becomes a practising doc at some level by say age 25-26....retire at say 65...thats approx 40 years service. were all living to 85-90 now...thats 20-25 years retirement time....roughly. thats a massive amount of time to expect a pension to pay 60-80k per annum. Its wrong very wrong that people in all sectors were promised this but its simply not financially possible.....the doctors have to lower thier expectations like rest off us, lets be frank...60k per annum a real nice pension innit."
where do you get £60k from |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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news....the average was to be around 100k per annum.... now under new proposals low 60s. also the lump sum was to be 160k and day they leave thats now to be around 90-100k.....so yes its a hell off a drop....but feet on ground time.....thats a lot off money to recieve for maybe 20 yrs |
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people really have no idea what they are talking about either this is a profession wher you effectively work "part time" for 5 years unpaid before you start getting the rate for the job and now thanks to libdems will amass a debt of £70k |
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"news....the average was to be around 100k per annum.... now under new proposals low 60s. also the lump sum was to be 160k and day they leave thats now to be around 90-100k.....so yes its a hell off a drop....but feet on ground time.....thats a lot off money to recieve for maybe 20 yrs"
news most doctors only earn around 60-70 k |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"people really have no idea what they are talking about either this is a profession wher you effectively work "part time" for 5 years unpaid before you start getting the rate for the job and now thanks to libdems will amass a debt of £70k "
A year's worth of pension payments will take care of that.
A person has every right to protect whatever deal they've got for themselves but doctors & nurses run a fine line between support for them and industrial action and condemnation if a patient dies because of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement |
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By *waymanMan
over a year ago
newcastle |
"i symoathise with the dr's and what they want to do to their pensions. However i've also worked for the nhs for 22 years and we have had the same pension conditions slapped on us but no one cares because we work in the background and don't see us.
there is slightly different...
4 years ago the BMA and the then govt came to a deal with regards to pension reforms... which actually benefits the govt to the tune of about 2 billion a year to the chancellor
now the govt have rippped up that deal and now are imposing one on them.....
so you can understand why doctors are just a bit miffed.....
Its happened/ing to everyone Fabio. I've been told I can no longer go early, and must do an extra 8 YEARS, for the same pension. Not chuffed about it at all.
you are right it has happened to all of us what i'm pointing out is as it's dr's people take notice. But the nhs consitists of far more than dr's infact they are a very small portion of a hospital working "
I think hyou'll find people are paying attention to the doctors because they're taking industrial action.
There's a hint there... |
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"a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement"
Bet you wish you had tried harder at school eh?..... |
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"a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement"
GPs are not saleried they contract to the NHS |
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"a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement"
Take a look at the NHS recruitment pages it might suprise you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement
Bet you wish you had tried harder at school eh?....."
god lol deffo yea....totally agree I wasted my time at school xxx
I shud prob also declare an interest as a student nurse at uni.....with loans to re-pay xxx and expect to not get a pension along the lines off whats been promised in past |
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Something that hasnt been mentioned in this thread so far is that we dont realalise that to a large extent the NHS works(or increasingly doesnt)because of alot of good will shown by all NHS staff from top to bottom...going the extra mile...working beyond their shift time...performing tasks not in their job description...covering at short notice...covering abscences/illness/sickness not in their contract..I could go on.This type of ethos is now well on the way out because of political fiddling in previously agreed NHS pension arrangements.The ultimate loosers will be the public...me and you...who use the NHS because the NHS cannot run in the way that it did do without the goodwill of the staff...unless we are prepared to pay more for it and for the government prevailing to respect and honour prior agreements. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't object to GPs earning a good salary, they deserve it for the studying etc they have done. What I object to is that now life expectancy has increased and the pensions are payable for longer then either the scheme should be changed to ease the cost or people should increase their contributions. Why should the tax payer foot the ever increasing bill? |
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"a bog standard GP in your local health centres on 80k ish....and they are not on the highest salarys by a long shot. look up current vacancies and salarys offered. but regardless of quibbling over numbers its still a good amount off money for 20 years ish of retirement"
All animals are equal...but some animals are more equal than others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Something that hasnt been mentioned in this thread so far is that we dont realalise that to a large extent the NHS works(or increasingly doesnt)because of alot of good will shown by all NHS staff from top to bottom...going the extra mile...working beyond their shift time...performing tasks not in their job description...covering at short notice...covering abscences/illness/sickness not in their contract..I could go on.This type of ethos is now well on the way out because of political fiddling in previously agreed NHS pension arrangements.The ultimate loosers will be the public...me and you...who use the NHS because the NHS cannot run in the way that it did do without the goodwill of the staff...unless we are prepared to pay more for it and for the government prevailing to respect and honour prior agreements. "
Could not agree more with the sentiment here.... but still....the old deals were never do-able in first place. |
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"I don't object to GPs earning a good salary, they deserve it for the studying etc they have done. What I object to is that now life expectancy has increased and the pensions are payable for longer then either the scheme should be changed to ease the cost or people should increase their contributions. Why should the tax payer foot the ever increasing bill?"
and yet no doubt you will expect the taxpayer to pay your pension oh and probably to pay doctors to keep you alive at some time in the future |
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"I don't object to GPs earning a good salary, they deserve it for the studying etc they have done. What I object to is that now life expectancy has increased and the pensions are payable for longer then either the scheme should be changed to ease the cost or people should increase their contributions. Why should the tax payer foot the ever increasing bill?"
The NHS pension scheme returns a surplus of 2 billion to the exchequer each year....for him to waste!! |
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"Something that hasnt been mentioned in this thread so far is that we dont realalise that to a large extent the NHS works(or increasingly doesnt)because of alot of good will shown by all NHS staff from top to bottom...going the extra mile...working beyond their shift time...performing tasks not in their job description...covering at short notice...covering abscences/illness/sickness not in their contract..I could go on.This type of ethos is now well on the way out because of political fiddling in previously agreed NHS pension arrangements.The ultimate loosers will be the public...me and you...who use the NHS because the NHS cannot run in the way that it did do without the goodwill of the staff...unless we are prepared to pay more for it and for the government prevailing to respect and honour prior agreements.
Could not agree more with the sentiment here.... but still....the old deals were never do-able in first place."
And its that which pees NHS staff off...you dont sign up to a deal that you cant afford and then expect the other side to bail you out....real life just doesnt work like that. |
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"people really have no idea what they are talking about either this is a profession wher you effectively work "part time" for 5 years unpaid before you start getting the rate for the job and now thanks to libdems will amass a debt of £70k
A year's worth of pension payments will take care of that.
A person has every right to protect whatever deal they've got for themselves but doctors & nurses run a fine line between support for them and industrial action and condemnation if a patient dies because of it. "
Absolutely right...and the government know it and foolishly exploit it to the continuing detriment of all of us who use our NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month. |
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"the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month. "
No not EVERYONE is in it together
Close all yhe tax avoidance schemes and there will be a lot more money in UKplc
oh and student doctors don't enjoy a NHS bursary
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"the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month. "
We agree but this is about more than the money we loose in our pensions  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"people really have no idea what they are talking about either this is a profession wher you effectively work "part time" for 5 years unpaid before you start getting the rate for the job and now thanks to libdems will amass a debt of £70k
A year's worth of pension payments will take care of that.
A person has every right to protect whatever deal they've got for themselves but doctors & nurses run a fine line between support for them and industrial action and condemnation if a patient dies because of it.
Absolutely right...and the government know it and foolishly exploit it to the continuing detriment of all of us who use our NHS."
My own view that a deal is a deal and changes to pension arrangements should not be retrospective. The govt cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy and if the nations coffers well in future years will they give back the pension cuts they've made now? I doubt it, not even a Labour govt will do that.
I'm afraid public employees are stuck with the deal on offer now and they'll just have to get used to it as I can't see any future govt reversing these pension deals/cuts.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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it's funny how most of you are referring to nhs workers as only dr and nurses. Most doctors couldn't do their jobs without the other staff workingin a hospital. for instance blood results are a key to treatment where do you think those results come from certainly not from the dr's or nurses ! This has been a great debat to follow xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month.
No not EVERYONE is in it together
Close all yhe tax avoidance schemes and there will be a lot more money in UKplc
oh and student doctors don't enjoy a NHS bursary
"
Now we are in agreement...were deff not all in it together !!!....pensions are a financial product....usually liked to a bank.....who have bled pensions off cash for decades...perhaps to pay bonuses....so yes your bang on target there.
the ultra rich and international buisnesses get mega tax breaks the small buisnessman cant ever hope to get....again were not all in it together.
Your right doctors dont get bursarys but then they earn 3 times the salary on qualification....live a life off priviledge (yes they work hard) perhaps a bursary for doctors wud have opened up the proffesion to people from lesser privledged back grounds maybe thats why its never been paid.....keep the proffesion for the privledged. BUT still we cant afford those pensions...govt cant pay what we aint got |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
"the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month.
No not EVERYONE is in it together
Close all yhe tax avoidance schemes and there will be a lot more money in UKplc
oh and student doctors don't enjoy a NHS bursary
"
The powers that be seem to have more or less abandoned the idea of closing tax avoidance loopholes (tax avoidance being a way the rich can avoid paying their fair share or in some cases anything at all) they will just have to find more ways of fleecing Joe Bloggs. |
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"the simple reality is theres insufficient money within UK PLC to pay these deals.... its basic housekeeping we as a country cannot continue to spend more than we earn.....EVERYONE has had a bitter pill to swallow not just doctors.... when I leave Uni Its highly likely I will work for the NHS so I will have my own little gripe to.... student nurses lost thier bursarys in full....this year starting in sept wont get a penny.....which previously was 750 a month.
No not EVERYONE is in it together
Close all yhe tax avoidance schemes and there will be a lot more money in UKplc
oh and student doctors don't enjoy a NHS bursary
Now we are in agreement...were deff not all in it together !!!....pensions are a financial product....usually liked to a bank.....who have bled pensions off cash for decades...perhaps to pay bonuses....so yes your bang on target there.
the ultra rich and international buisnesses get mega tax breaks the small buisnessman cant ever hope to get....again were not all in it together.
Your right doctors dont get bursarys but then they earn 3 times the salary on qualification....live a life off priviledge (yes they work hard) perhaps a bursary for doctors wud have opened up the proffesion to people from lesser privledged back grounds maybe thats why its never been paid.....keep the proffesion for the privledged. BUT still we cant afford those pensions...govt cant pay what we aint got"
agree with most of that except that newly qualified doctors will only earn upwards of 50% more than a nurse in a similar position but will be expected to work almost twice as long |
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By *arrasCouple
over a year ago
North West |
" why should they have to strike separably like rest of us  "
They want to avoid a general strike, so they are attacking groups separatley. Keeping them small enough to refer to as a 'damp squib' and avoiding a dramatic shift in public opinion.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ive got a predicted salary expectation (from uni) upon qualification of around 22k. I will have 25-28 k off debt when I leave uni. my salary wont ever keep apace with a doctors....it will accelerate away from me at a huge pace. A doc may leave uni with 60ishK debt but its written off as irrecoverable after 20 years off minimal repayments. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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my point is.....I can grumble and make valid points and we can even agree on many points...BUT I am as a person a realist.....moaning wont get me anywhere lol....I Wanna be a nurse so I play the game as best I can. The realist in me knows no matter how much doctors moan......thier retirement will still be way more comfortable than most.... its not the deal they were promised....and its crap to be let down....but being real again.....those deals were calculated on a retirement off 5-8 years....not 20.....so they pay em less a year but pay 3 times longer. if they strike they wud quickley loose public backing so they dont......we cant afford to pay it |
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then people need to realise that what they pay them at the end is to make up for the sacrifices they make at the beginning - and as has already been said it's debateable whether the money is there to pay any sort of public pensions - but the arguement many people seem to put up is they have been shafted so they want to see everyone shafted |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"then people need to realise that what they pay them at the end is to make up for the sacrifices they make at the beginning - and as has already been said it's debateable whether the money is there to pay any sort of public pensions - but the arguement many people seem to put up is they have been shafted so they want to see everyone shafted "
Most trades are low paid long hours and hard work....new doctors work long hours....so do nurses to lol....60 hours is v common......take say an appretice car mechanic....he starts sweeping floors making teas....moves up to car cleaning....then very minor repairs for a while....all for long hours and lesser pay....eventually he becomes the time served mechanic.....its a common parallel in most trades. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"sorry but training to be a doctor is unlike most other jobs "
well its more drawn out for sure but still follows the parrallel I offered. I think meeting u in person wud be fun....dunno if I wud fight u or fuck u lol....possibly both lol x |
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"sorry but training to be a doctor is unlike most other jobs
well its more drawn out for sure but still follows the parrallel I offered. I think meeting u in person wud be fun....dunno if I wud fight u or fuck u lol....possibly both lol x"
lol I do like your pics but you are a long way from me x |
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By *arrasCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"but the arguement many people seem to put up is they have been shafted so they want to see everyone shafted "
Great by-product of Neoliberalism... People will now accept a shit sandwich with open arms as long as theirs has more filling than their neighbours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but the arguement many people seem to put up is they have been shafted so they want to see everyone shafted
Great by-product of Neoliberalism... People will now accept a shit sandwich with open arms as long as theirs has more filling than their neighbours."
ooooer a big word lol.... dont wanna see anyone shafted....but u have to be realistic..... the situations changed with pensions it wont ever go back to like before.....we have to adapt and overcome to survive |
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"but the arguement many people seem to put up is they have been shafted so they want to see everyone shafted
Great by-product of Neoliberalism... People will now accept a shit sandwich with open arms as long as theirs has more filling than their neighbours."
 |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
it is an interesting debate going on... but there is some slight mis-information here that i feel bound to correct....
that "final salary" pension amount that people are screaming about..... someone said 60-70K.... it is actually capped at 48,000......
i work in the civil service now.... did work for a nationalised train company and I think the crux of it wasn't the fact that we all know we have to give a bit.... it is was fact that the govt imposed it on people rather than any form of negotiation....
like I say the doctors have already in good faith given once, and like I said... the Dr's pension scheme actually GIVES BACK £2 billion in surplus each year to the chancellor...
so for them to basically rip up that deal and then impose another one on them is the thing that galls...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't object to GPs earning a good salary, they deserve it for the studying etc they have done. What I object to is that now life expectancy has increased and the pensions are payable for longer then either the scheme should be changed to ease the cost or people should increase their contributions. Why should the tax payer foot the ever increasing bill?
and yet no doubt you will expect the taxpayer to pay your pension oh and probably to pay doctors to keep you alive at some time in the future "
As the old age pension is paid by current tax payers then yes I would. I have worked since leaving school and never taken a penny in benefits so I should be entitled to the full old age pension which I will top up with my own private pension.
I am not attacking doctors or the service they provide and yes I would expect then to deliver a service to me that I have paid for in taxes. What I object to is paying for an unaffordable pension scheme.
The government in the past have offered that those who already have the pension deal get to keep it and new entrants start a different scheme which is more affordable. The unions turned this offer down too.
Something has to give somewhere. |
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"I don't object to GPs earning a good salary, they deserve it for the studying etc they have done. What I object to is that now life expectancy has increased and the pensions are payable for longer then either the scheme should be changed to ease the cost or people should increase their contributions. Why should the tax payer foot the ever increasing bill?
and yet no doubt you will expect the taxpayer to pay your pension oh and probably to pay doctors to keep you alive at some time in the future
As the old age pension is paid by current tax payers then yes I would. I have worked since leaving school and never taken a penny in benefits so I should be entitled to the full old age pension which I will top up with my own private pension.
I am not attacking doctors or the service they provide and yes I would expect then to deliver a service to me that I have paid for in taxes. What I object to is paying for an unaffordable pension scheme.
The government in the past have offered that those who already have the pension deal get to keep it and new entrants start a different scheme which is more affordable. The unions turned this offer down too.
Something has to give somewhere."
as has already been said the scheme is self financing so why meddle with it - and your taxes are not paying for your future health needs or pension |
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"How is it self financing if my taxes go towards it?
I know my taxes go to current pensioners and healthcare as mentioned above."
because according to _abio the scheme has an annual surplus of £2 billion which the government recieves each year |
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"How is it self financing if my taxes go towards it?
I know my taxes go to current pensioners and healthcare as mentioned above.
because according to _abio the scheme has an annual surplus of £2 billion which the government recieves each year"
Ah, the Gospel. Shame it's incorrect. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
BMA council chair Hamish Meldrum today said doctors wanted fair treatment on pensions adding urgent and emergency care would not be affected with patient safety kept paramount.
Speaking at a press conference today Dr Meldrum said the strength of feeling among doctors and the government’s unwillingness to negotiate meant the BMA had “no option but to take this action”.
“We are not seeking preferential treatment, we are seeking fair treatment. The government’s changes to an already recently reformed NHS Pension scheme cannot be justified,” he said.
Currently the NHS Pension scheme provides £2bn a year to the treasury but doctors were having to “pay more for the same pension as other public sector workers,” Dr Meldrum said.
so that is the chair of the BMA.....
good enough source for you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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just because a point is presented in a literate manner....does not make it accurate.....many poor speakers and writers are accurate, often its simply a matter off presentation making somthing appear to carry more truth or imtellect. remember the universal truth....bullshit baffles brains everytime. G night people and play nicely xxx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what about the private companys that have closed pension funds down no one is fighting for us not even the unions are fighting for us "
If i have to make this point in one more pension/union discussion im going to go mad. The unions wont fight for private sector pensions in areas they don't have members. If you want a union to stand with you to fight for a decent pension then join one otherwise your on your own. Unions aren't some magical force that swoop down and solve everyone's problems, it takes a lot of hard work running one and why should they use the limited resources they have fighting for pensions in areas they don't have members? |
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