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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes they can.
They can be trained to know right from wrong.
Just like you!
Now come and get that sp*nking!! 
Yes sir
The missing letter was a U..."
Yues siur? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"By human moral standards, nature's moral standards or animals moral standards?
All three
Then yes but I'm not sure how much thought my cat gives to his moral stance on mouse culling.  "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes they can.
They can be trained to know right from wrong.
Just like you!
Now come and get that sp*nking!!
Yes sir
The missing letter was a U...
Yues siur?"
 |
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Morals are literally knowing right from wrong. The only difference between species (including humans) is the moral differences allowable in each social group, it can vary greatly across regions in all species.
For instance we send people who break our social rules to prison, kick them out house, no longer see or speak to them etc. Any animal species that lives in groups do the same, they kick them out of the group for breaking the rules, in addition to that Adolescent males get kicked out far more often than females due to testosterone levels during adolescent & challenging the leaders authority (in our case our parents or government). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Morals is an imaginary idea that makes society work, much like money.
That said, experiments show that monkeys and chimps very definitely have a sense of fairness with numerous cases of an animal getting upset at perceived injustice. There is at least one occasion I believe where a chimp refused a treat due to unfair treatment of another chimp. There are some that would argue this shows a more effective moral compass than that demonstrated by many humans. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can animals" wouldnt have morals because they are made of cans.
On the other hand one of my cats would easily devour his brothers dinner without any guilt if the other one is not around at feeding time. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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""Can animals" wouldnt have morals because they are made of cans.
On the other hand one of my cats would easily devour his brothers dinner without any guilt if the other one is not around at feeding time. "
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""Can animals" wouldnt have morals because they are made of cans.
On the other hand one of my cats would easily devour his brothers dinner without any guilt if the other one is not around at feeding time. "
Most cats don't live in social groups, only when breeding & a mouse is food in a cats eyes.
Funnily enough I watched a fox shoot out my garden with a magpie in mouth yesterday afternoon followed by about 20 magpies and 10 gulls, all shouting at it & some swooping, the fox tried to hide to eat & ended up running away to another hiding place with birds in tow again, must of lasted bout 1/2 hr.
so yes. Those birds had morals to protect themselves collectively against a predator to their best ability. The same is seen in buffalo, elephants etc. |
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Some animals/birds can work together and help each other, without necessary gain for themselves.
Not sure that's defined as morals but it demonstrates an understanding of others outside of themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Some animals/birds can work together and help each other, without necessary gain for themselves.
Not sure that's defined as morals but it demonstrates an understanding of others outside of themselves."
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Tbh I don’t see why not - though we usually refer to animals in terms of temperaments or characteristics rather than morality.
We have a new puppy who’s a total sweetie and loves everyone and everything (he tried to make friends with a wild rabbit at the park last week).
My oldest daughter has a pup the same age. He’s drawn blood on her arm many times - whereas my pup was obviously remorseful the one time he did it to me (when he saw I was hurt and upset) and hasn’t done it since.
Whether we call it morals or temperament - is it just two ways to describe the same thing? |
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Every complex society requires its members to live to a moral code. Morals are what we developed to curb the worst of our instincts, and laws and law enforcement are how we ensure those morals are adhered to. Without them we would have anarchy and society would break down. Other cultures and societies may have different morals, but the role they play is the same. Do other species have morals? In their own way, maybe. Perhaps not in the way we understand them, but all creatures live to a set rules just like we do. Otherwise troops of monkeys and ant colonies and beehives would never function. |
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"Tbh I don’t see why not - though we usually refer to animals in terms of temperaments or characteristics rather than morality.
We have a new puppy who’s a total sweetie and loves everyone and everything (he tried to make friends with a wild rabbit at the park last week).
My oldest daughter has a pup the same age. He’s drawn blood on her arm many times - whereas my pup was obviously remorseful the one time he did it to me (when he saw I was hurt and upset) and hasn’t done it since.
Whether we call it morals or temperament - is it just two ways to describe the same thing? "
"Temperaments" in animals is the same as our personalities, a mouthy boystrious puppy (can't spell it I know) would be taught by its mum that that behaviour is unacceptable, my dog used to put naughty puppies in the corner, sit in front of them and snarl if they moved, until they behaved, if they ignored the warning she would give them a right telling off, which looks vicious to us but she knows her strength & where her teeth are etc it was basically a slap down for repeated bad behavior. None of these were her pups, she still taught them what was acceptable or not.
We take them from their mums before they learn these things, so humans have to teach it but what is forgotten is that they don't fully understand words at a young age, you need to use single word commands & tones.
as with some humans and some kids, they vary in behaviour some always "care" others don't "pay attention" others "don't care".
Depending on your dogs personality should determine how you discipline them, especially with what is acceptable to do with their mouth on body parts, some take a sharp "no" others a loud "ouch" some need a mummy pin down.
morals are the social rules we live by. |
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By *ankie303Woman
over a year ago
Weirdsville South Coast Dorset |
My house rabbits won't use each others litter trays.....unless 1 pisses the others off then they all do whilst keeping eye contact with the ones who's tray it is....not really sure if that's morals but heyho |
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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
I've seen a wild cats documentary where a leopard killed a monkey then realisd it had a baby monkey in the tree.. took the baby monkey and cared for it .. they followed the leopard to watch its actions weeks on .. do with this as you please |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Morals is an imaginary idea that makes society work, much like money.
That said, experiments show that monkeys and chimps very definitely have a sense of fairness with numerous cases of an animal getting upset at perceived injustice. There is at least one occasion I believe where a chimp refused a treat due to unfair treatment of another chimp. There are some that would argue this shows a more effective moral compass than that demonstrated by many humans. "
Absolutely imaginary! And usually used for gain or self promotion too - fab forums are like a moral battle ground and it's all in our heads innit.....   |
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We're all different, whatever the species, so it's realistic to not think of them as if they are human.
Much behaviour is complex and we'll struggle to understand animal intelligence, when we can't easily grasp human intelligence. Animals appear to care for others, including giving protection and nurturing, outside of parental roles. Some animal societies also appear to punish those who transgress. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As they go to the slaughter youd expect them to be offering a bribe to avoid death, casting lots for one of them to die, trying to escape, turning on the slaughterers and killing them, trampling on the weakest to escape etc.
But they don't. So they either have superb morals, or they are just thick. |
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"As they go to the slaughter youd expect them to be offering a bribe to avoid death, casting lots for one of them to die, trying to escape, turning on the slaughterers and killing them, trampling on the weakest to escape etc.
But they don't. So they either have superb morals, or they are just thick."
That's prey herd mentality, they follow one another, if one goes off a cliff then there's usually more that follow if not all, herds are strongest in numbers, a loner gets picked off by predators as does the slowest & weakest, it's their defense system.
Plus to be fair they are used to going in trailers to move grazing pastures, go to sales markets, milking parlours are just the right size & crush chutes for vet treatment, ivf, scans etc.
They don't actually crush the animal, it's a metal poled frame with a head holder bar to stop them from moving & allows vets to treat any part without much danger of being crushed or thrown by the animal as well as stops the animal from injuring itself from medical equipment. I believe most can tip to the side for hoof trimming too.
Slaughter houses are built in such a way that they can't go any other way but forward & the rails are high enough & narrow they can't jump out or pass each other, gated at both ends too. The slaughters are on a separate platform to the livestock themselves in most cases too so it limits injuries to them. They have no choice.
In places without our slaughter houses like developing countries the rule is don't show them the knife, the fear would make the animal surge with adrenaline & try to escape, adrenaline also taints the meat. Quickness & as painless as possible is always key in any slaughter.
Not like in nature where the predators often start eating large prey animals before they are actually dead. If you don't believe me go watch Nat geo, Nature is cruel in her taking of life, Completely survival of the fittest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don’t really know never asked them
Talk to the animals.
In their language or our language?"
Depends on if you speak animal. If you speak animal, speak animal. If don't speak animal talk in human. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Don’t really know never asked them
Talk to the animals.
In their language or our language?
Depends on if you speak animal. If you speak animal, speak animal. If don't speak animal talk in human."
Will the animal understand human |
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By *r laidbackMan
over a year ago
London & New Brighton |
A lioness will give up her life to protect her clubs, most animal life will, im sure we all would do the same?
Off course they have morels to a certain point, even if you look at the fact that animals coexist with the earth, where as humans just take over without any consideration to wildlife around them, food for thought. |
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