FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Supernatural or logical explanation ?
Supernatural or logical explanation ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I went to bed once with clean boxers on. Woke up with white sticky stuff in them
Can't explain it"
Albino ectoplasm. See the documentary movie "Ghostbusters" for more details.  |
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"The other day whilst I was washing up the kettle switched itself on & began heating up....  "
The kettle is an inanimate object without conciousness.
Something could have touched against the on switch especially if it is one of those switches on the cordless base like mine.
Other than that it is possible that the switch was almost in the on position and due to gravity finally gave way and went into the on position.
That some 'not alive as we know it' force made its presence known by turning on your kettle is as ridiculous as it sounds. |
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By *ikilovesCCouple
over a year ago
village life, closest main town inverness |
"The other day whilst I was washing up the kettle switched itself on & began heating up....
The kettle is an inanimate object without conciousness.
Something could have touched against the on switch especially if it is one of those switches on the cordless base like mine.
Other than that it is possible that the switch was almost in the on position and due to gravity finally gave way and went into the on position.
That some 'not alive as we know it' force made its presence known by turning on your kettle is as ridiculous as it sounds. "
.
Yes I'd go with the switch theory too  |
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"99.9% of the time there is a logical explanation. Once you've eliminated the possible there is only the impossible that remains"
Once you've eliminated the impossible ............. then only the ...... |
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"The other day whilst I was washing up the kettle switched itself on & began heating up....
The kettle is an inanimate object without conciousness.
Something could have touched against the on switch especially if it is one of those switches on the cordless base like mine.
Other than that it is possible that the switch was almost in the on position and due to gravity finally gave way and went into the on position.
That some 'not alive as we know it' force made its presence known by turning on your kettle is as ridiculous as it sounds. "
That depends how you define consciousness. A kettle is aware of the temperature of the water in it and can react.
In a kettle there is a temperature sensitive cut out that reacts to cut the power when it reaches boiling point. Further to that they can have a thermal fuse for incase the other one fails or is turned on when empty.
Thermal fuses can take a short while to reset so if it has tripped and you refill/reboil the kettle it wont do anything until the thermal fuse has cooled down.
So, I'm guessing that there is either a fault with your kettle or it's been over/under filled.
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"Nope. That would be 'information processing' by the therm...... not consciousness.
"
Consciousness- the state of being aware and responsive to ones surroundings.
The kettle knows its temperature and responds accordingly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Moving something close by it. You didn’t realise it touched the switch and hence kettles on"
Teach you to leave the door unlocked.
I'll be back for the silver later |
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"Nope. That would be 'information processing' by the therm...... not consciousness.
Consciousness- the state of being aware and responsive to ones surroundings.
The kettle knows its temperature and responds accordingly. "
The wind blows litter and the litter rolls along. |
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"Nope. That would be 'information processing' by the therm...... not consciousness.
Consciousness- the state of being aware and responsive to ones surroundings.
The kettle knows its temperature and responds accordingly.
The wind blows litter and the litter rolls along. "
And the conscious mind is just an information processor |
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"Nope. That would be 'information processing' by the therm...... not consciousness.
Consciousness- the state of being aware and responsive to ones surroundings.
The kettle knows its temperature and responds accordingly.
The wind blows litter and the litter rolls along.
And the conscious mind is just an information processor"
I wouldn't argue with that statement as simplistic as it is.
The thermostat has no notion of temperature. It cannot observe anything external. Only an observer of the kettle has any concept of temperature. The thermostat is processing information and operating accordingly. It has received a 'push' if you like but it is not aware it has been pushed. It simply moves according to instruction. If I close my garden gate.... if I give it a push, would you say it knew i'd pushed it to a closed position.
You are simplifying the concept of consciousness. |
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"Nope. That would be 'information processing' by the therm...... not consciousness.
Consciousness- the state of being aware and responsive to ones surroundings.
The kettle knows its temperature and responds accordingly.
The wind blows litter and the litter rolls along.
And the conscious mind is just an information processor
I wouldn't argue with that statement as simplistic as it is.
The thermostat has no notion of temperature. It cannot observe anything external. Only an observer of the kettle has any concept of temperature. The thermostat is processing information and operating accordingly. It has received a 'push' if you like but it is not aware it has been pushed. It simply moves according to instruction. If I close my garden gate.... if I give it a push, would you say it knew i'd pushed it to a closed position.
You are simplifying the concept of consciousness. "
Yes I am simplifying it. However simplistic a kettle is it possesses logic. It is simple binary logic but none the less, detects changes in state,it makes decisions and takes action. |
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The kettle cannot make decisions. The kettle has NO IDEA what is going on. The thermostat could be operated by a totally different type of sensor and the kettle would still work ..... the thermostat just goes through a series of un
conscious movements...... It is conscious of nothing. |
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"The kettle cannot make decisions. The kettle has NO IDEA what is going on. The thermostat could be operated by a totally different type of sensor and the kettle would still work ..... the thermostat just goes through a series of un
conscious movements...... It is conscious of nothing."
What about toasters?  |
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"The kettle cannot make decisions. The kettle has NO IDEA what is going on. The thermostat could be operated by a totally different type of sensor and the kettle would still work ..... the thermostat just goes through a series of un
conscious movements...... It is conscious of nothing.
What about toasters? "
Thank God! Now we can talk sense. Toaster are def conscious..... I put mine on low and it blackens everything. |
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"The kettle cannot make decisions. The kettle has NO IDEA what is going on. The thermostat could be operated by a totally different type of sensor and the kettle would still work ..... the thermostat just goes through a series of un
conscious movements...... It is conscious of nothing."
The actions of the thermostat decide the outcome. The thermostat autonomously monitors the state and adjusts accordingly therefore it is aware, and so conscious.
What it isn't is sentient. |
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"At best the thermostat is simply a model it is certainly not an instantiation of consciousness."
As I said, it depends on how you want to define it. It's an age old debate which is still ongoing. Most people associate consciousness with being 'alive' and cognizant. Other theories and beliefs apply consciousness to the whole universe and its contents and some define it as being responsive to stimulus, as a thermostat is.
Look up panpsychism if you want to know more. Here is an example-
"As science and philosophy crash against the problem of human consciousness, many are embracing a philosophy called panpsychism. Speaking to Quartz, Phillip Goff, a philosophy professor at Central European University in Budapest, says that panpsychism holds out the belief that, consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness, says Goff. These particles then come together to form more complex forms of consciousness, such as humans’ subjective experiences. This isn’t meant to imply that particles have a coherent worldview or actively think, merely that there’s some inherent subjective experience of consciousness in even the tiniest particle."
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"A domesticated poltergeist.
Will have to see if I can get it to help with other chores
Send it my way if you can
Do you believe OP in the supernatural?"
I believe there are things that happen which can't be explained so I guess my answer has to be yes I do... |
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"At best the thermostat is simply a model it is certainly not an instantiation of consciousness.
As I said, it depends on how you want to define it. It's an age old debate which is still ongoing. Most people associate consciousness with being 'alive' and cognizant. Other theories and beliefs apply consciousness to the whole universe and its contents and some define it as being responsive to stimulus, as a thermostat is.
Look up panpsychism if you want to know more. Here is an example-
"As science and philosophy crash against the problem of human consciousness, many are embracing a philosophy called panpsychism. Speaking to Quartz, Phillip Goff, a philosophy professor at Central European University in Budapest, says that panpsychism holds out the belief that, consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness, says Goff. These particles then come together to form more complex forms of consciousness, such as humans’ subjective experiences. This isn’t meant to imply that particles have a coherent worldview or actively think, merely that there’s some inherent subjective experience of consciousness in even the tiniest particle."
"
I have Google too.
A kettle does not have consciousness. |
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"At best the thermostat is simply a model it is certainly not an instantiation of consciousness.
As I said, it depends on how you want to define it. It's an age old debate which is still ongoing. Most people associate consciousness with being 'alive' and cognizant. Other theories and beliefs apply consciousness to the whole universe and its contents and some define it as being responsive to stimulus, as a thermostat is.
Look up panpsychism if you want to know more. Here is an example-
"As science and philosophy crash against the problem of human consciousness, many are embracing a philosophy called panpsychism. Speaking to Quartz, Phillip Goff, a philosophy professor at Central European University in Budapest, says that panpsychism holds out the belief that, consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness, says Goff. These particles then come together to form more complex forms of consciousness, such as humans’ subjective experiences. This isn’t meant to imply that particles have a coherent worldview or actively think, merely that there’s some inherent subjective experience of consciousness in even the tiniest particle."
I have Google too.
A kettle does not have consciousness. "
In your opinion. However as I have shown others disagree and the word consciousness is open to interpretation and debate with no definitive answer to date.
This was the premise of my original point, and the only googling was to find a suitable quote to surmise as you are clearly struggling with the concept.
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I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to all involved in this belter of a thread. Where else but fab could you read something covering thirsty poltergeists, wet dreams and consciousness of inanimate objects, all brought together in one glorious melee of batshit crazy?
I bloody love it here.
Mrs TMN x |
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"At best the thermostat is simply a model it is certainly not an instantiation of consciousness.
As I said, it depends on how you want to define it. It's an age old debate which is still ongoing. Most people associate consciousness with being 'alive' and cognizant. Other theories and beliefs apply consciousness to the whole universe and its contents and some define it as being responsive to stimulus, as a thermostat is.
Look up panpsychism if you want to know more. Here is an example-
"As science and philosophy crash against the problem of human consciousness, many are embracing a philosophy called panpsychism. Speaking to Quartz, Phillip Goff, a philosophy professor at Central European University in Budapest, says that panpsychism holds out the belief that, consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness, says Goff. These particles then come together to form more complex forms of consciousness, such as humans’ subjective experiences. This isn’t meant to imply that particles have a coherent worldview or actively think, merely that there’s some inherent subjective experience of consciousness in even the tiniest particle."
I have Google too.
A kettle does not have consciousness.
In your opinion. However as I have shown others disagree and the word consciousness is open to interpretation and debate with no definitive answer to date.
This was the premise of my original point, and the only googling was to find a suitable quote to surmise as you are clearly struggling with the concept.
"
I am not struggling. I am not attempting to understand all available theory.
I'm telling you straight. A kettle does not have consciousness.
I won't be condescending to you. I've no need to be.
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"The other day whilst I was washing up the kettle switched itself on & began heating up.... "
Could a fat fly have landed on the switch and flown off before you saw it?
Or a wasp?
Seen some big bastards round here at the mo. 
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The other day whilst I was washing up the kettle switched itself on & began heating up.... "
Our kettle did the same thing a few days ago  maybe the kettles of world are rising up against us 
But it did just switch its self on? |
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"At best the thermostat is simply a model it is certainly not an instantiation of consciousness.
As I said, it depends on how you want to define it. It's an age old debate which is still ongoing. Most people associate consciousness with being 'alive' and cognizant. Other theories and beliefs apply consciousness to the whole universe and its contents and some define it as being responsive to stimulus, as a thermostat is.
Look up panpsychism if you want to know more. Here is an example-
"As science and philosophy crash against the problem of human consciousness, many are embracing a philosophy called panpsychism. Speaking to Quartz, Phillip Goff, a philosophy professor at Central European University in Budapest, says that panpsychism holds out the belief that, consciousness is a fundamental feature of physical matter; every single particle in existence has an “unimaginably simple” form of consciousness, says Goff. These particles then come together to form more complex forms of consciousness, such as humans’ subjective experiences. This isn’t meant to imply that particles have a coherent worldview or actively think, merely that there’s some inherent subjective experience of consciousness in even the tiniest particle."
I have Google too.
A kettle does not have consciousness.
In your opinion. However as I have shown others disagree and the word consciousness is open to interpretation and debate with no definitive answer to date.
This was the premise of my original point, and the only googling was to find a suitable quote to surmise as you are clearly struggling with the concept.
I am not struggling. I am not attempting to understand all available theory.
I'm telling you straight. A kettle does not have consciousness.
I won't be condescending to you. I've no need to be.
"
If you don't/refuse to understand all the relevant theory how can you be sure? |
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It is entirely possible you flicked on the way to the sink & didn't realize you did consciously, because you flicked the switch whilst in a daze/daydream/auto pilot.
It's the same when your driving & didn't notice the last 5 miles, the ones that make you question if you were asleep or not .....generally your on auto pilot. |
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I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you! |
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"I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you!"
Pretty much exactly what Granny says
No external force decided to switch on kettle
Either human, gravity, vibration or faulty switch
I do know occasionally my auto pilot does things without my immediate conscious realisation. The great thing is it's supposed to
Heres another thing
You with full belief can shout at us absolutely 100 percent sure you did not flick the switch the fact is you quite easily could have and not consciously know |
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"I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you!"
It's a semantic debate isn't it?
He's defining consciousness as being able to be aware of external stimuli and changing behaviour accordingly. You're defining it in terms of self reflection - "I think therefore I am". On the former basis the thermostat is conscious and the latter not.
I agree with you that the latter is the one the person in the street means by consciousness but interestingly I once met through swinging a guy who was a lecturer specialising in the philosophy of consciousness and he got me a book by David Chalmers called "The Conscious Mind".
I read it, only understood about 10%, but Chalmers also dealt with the point that on any proper definition of consciousness, a thermostat can be said to have consciousness. As I understand it, he eventually agrees with you on the basis that consciousness is not reducible to a physical process.
This guy is a serious philosopher by the way, not some psychic charlatan. My chap ended up going to work with him at his centre for consciousness at the Australian National University.
All very interesting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Do I have to be the one to point out the false dichotomy in the title? It should be Natural or not Natural (I might allow Natural or Supernatural, if you can show that supernatural is a direct negation of natural). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source. "
Can't tell if serious or pisstaking |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
Can't tell if serious or pisstaking "
Sorry, but I'm spiritual and as such believe on what some say "wacky shit'. Do chakra meditaion and Isha Kriya meditation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
Can't tell if serious or pisstaking Sorry, but I'm spiritual and as such believe on what some say "wacky shit'. Do chakra meditaion and Isha Kriya meditation. "
Then you need to preface your comment with "I believe that..."
Doesn't make it right, but makes it less confusing. |
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source. "
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hQi42Q9mcY one of my teachers. |
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hQi42Q9mcY one of my teachers."
Damn
Why did you not say you were taught by you tube
I'll take it all back its obviously fact beyond doubt with no part derived from the fertile human imagination   |
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"I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you!
It's a semantic debate isn't it?
He's defining consciousness as being able to be aware of external stimuli and changing behaviour accordingly. You're defining it in terms of self reflection - "I think therefore I am". On the former basis the thermostat is conscious and the latter not.
I agree with you that the latter is the one the person in the street means by consciousness but interestingly I once met through swinging a guy who was a lecturer specialising in the philosophy of consciousness and he got me a book by David Chalmers called "The Conscious Mind".
I read it, only understood about 10%, but Chalmers also dealt with the point that on any proper definition of consciousness, a thermostat can be said to have consciousness. As I understand it, he eventually agrees with you on the basis that consciousness is not reducible to a physical process.
This guy is a serious philosopher by the way, not some psychic charlatan. My chap ended up going to work with him at his centre for consciousness at the Australian National University.
All very interesting "
It was and very eloquently put without bias..... thank you dear heart... which ever one you are  |
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
Can't tell if serious or pisstaking "
I was of the same mind..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hQi42Q9mcY one of my teachers.
Damn
Why did you not say you were taught by you tube
I'll take it all back its obviously fact beyond doubt with no part derived from the fertile human imagination "
I didn't say I was taught by youtube I said he is one of my teachers, I learn from him. I spent 10 years in Malaysia, started of going to a few Ajahn Brahm talk, when he was there, I also have seen talk by him in Australis, this let me to reading of guru's like Ram Dass. |
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hQi42Q9mcY one of my teachers.
Damn
Why did you not say you were taught by you tube
I'll take it all back its obviously fact beyond doubt with no part derived from the fertile human imagination I didn't say I was taught by youtube I said he is one of my teachers, I learn from him. I spent 10 years in Malaysia, started of going to a few Ajahn Brahm talk, when he was there, I also have seen talk by him in Australis, this let me to reading of guru's like Ram Dass. "
It matters not who you have been conned by
On this forum it's the total lack of substance in your assertion
When a brain dies there is actually a vast amount of energy in the body
Depending upon method of disposal it can take years to be converted into other forms
Initially though the quickest loss is infra red or heat
There is zero data to illustrate that any energy coming from a body is coded with readable data
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"I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you!
It's a semantic debate isn't it?
He's defining consciousness as being able to be aware of external stimuli and changing behaviour accordingly. You're defining it in terms of self reflection - "I think therefore I am". On the former basis the thermostat is conscious and the latter not.
I agree with you that the latter is the one the person in the street means by consciousness but interestingly I once met through swinging a guy who was a lecturer specialising in the philosophy of consciousness and he got me a book by David Chalmers called "The Conscious Mind".
I read it, only understood about 10%, but Chalmers also dealt with the point that on any proper definition of consciousness, a thermostat can be said to have consciousness. As I understand it, he eventually agrees with you on the basis that consciousness is not reducible to a physical process.
This guy is a serious philosopher by the way, not some psychic charlatan. My chap ended up going to work with him at his centre for consciousness at the Australian National University.
All very interesting
It was and very eloquently put without bias..... thank you dear heart... which ever one you are "
No problem
What subsequently occurred to me was the problem of consciousness in animals. If someone strokes me, I'll get a physical sensation of pleasure and also can consciously think "I'm being stroked".
Stroke a cat and it will be aware of the physical pleasurable sensation but cannot experience the self reflective awareness of "I'm being stroked"
If consciousness involves self reflection, then we'd have to say the cat was more akin to a thermostat than a human being (and some people, Descartes for example, have seen animals as automatons) when it comes to consciousness, which seems wrong.
But if we say consciousness can involve perception and doesn't have to involve self reflection, then we're back to thermostat being conscious... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
My opinion is the fourth dimension is time and tangible
What you suggest I feel is both completely made up and non sense ie has zero logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hQi42Q9mcY one of my teachers.
Damn
Why did you not say you were taught by you tube
I'll take it all back its obviously fact beyond doubt with no part derived from the fertile human imagination I didn't say I was taught by youtube I said he is one of my teachers, I learn from him. I spent 10 years in Malaysia, started of going to a few Ajahn Brahm talk, when he was there, I also have seen talk by him in Australis, this let me to reading of guru's like Ram Dass.
It matters not who you have been conned by
On this forum it's the total lack of substance in your assertion
When a brain dies there is actually a vast amount of energy in the body
Depending upon method of disposal it can take years to be converted into other forms
Initially though the quickest loss is infra red or heat
There is zero data to illustrate that any energy coming from a body is coded with readable data
"
That is what you believe and I respect that. That body become 21 grams lighter after death, as the body consists of five energy layers. It is up to you to find your own sense of life and death. To state that i'm beng conned by these people is a reflection of you not me. You idea of who I am or might be is not and does alter my path or journey. |
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"When people die and ove into the fourth dimension, there can be some risidual energ left over. For some, if it was a violent and sudden death, this can become confusing and their anergy can take longer to rejoin the source.
Can't tell if serious or pisstaking Sorry, but I'm spiritual and as such believe on what some say "wacky shit'. Do chakra meditaion and Isha Kriya meditation. "
There's actually a documentary series on discovery or nat geo, looking at if & how some humans like the shalon monks can before what seems like impossible feats.....it appears to be all in the meditation so far. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Loads of mumbo jumbo on here. Simple fact is. Your house is haunted and your not running away scared. Leave now and never go back. Your in your own horror movie and acting like a teenager going into the dark cellar after hearing a noise |
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"I didn't say I don't understand it.
Basically I don't have to regurgitate from any source , that which I have discounted and I am sure that there exists theory of which i've not yet heard and that is true for you also.
I know that inanimate objects are inanimate and will remain inanimate no matter how much reading I do. Some things are not worthy of further investigation or discussion and that included the 'conscious state' of a kettle.
I concede that particles within the known universe are arguably conscious but as yet there is no evidence that the consciousness of individual particles are combined to make a 'single consciousness' belonging to a manufactured , instruction loaded, program following, inanimate object such as a kettle.
The kettle has no consciousness.
Again, I won't be condescending to you simply because you do not agree with me. When I come across proof.. even good theory that says anything conclusive about kettles being conscious i'll get back to you. In the mean time
Stay safe people and read the manual.
Especially the bit that says iii) Treat your kettle nicely and it will not look for you, it will not pursue you but if you bang it against the tap, it will know, it will find you and it WILL kill you!"
You can choose to believe what ever you like but at the end of the day, it is just a belief. A belief that is created through conjecture and assumption.
The popular understanding of consciousness is simply a construct based on what seems to make sense based on our limited knowledge.
At one point we assumed the earth was flat. It seemed logical at the time but now we have the ability and equipment prove it isnt and understand why. We aren't yet at this point with proving and defining consciousness and until that point you cant prove you are right, and therefore cant prove me wrong. |
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