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Belfast social Meet and Greet 28/03/2020

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

So excited to announce - it's time for another party!

Let's get them fur coats off and celebrate spring in style

We have been blessed with getting fantastic we bunches to attend our events so far and always strive to provide a good night for all who are attending.

Our promise to you is - you'll be safe, you'll meet lots of other sexy fellow fabbers and you'll have a good night out if nothing else.

We will provide - a venue, music, goody bags, party snacks and a few surprises throughout the night.

Couples, ladies, gents of all sexualities as well as T-girls all welcome (let's be inclusive and welcoming).

Tickets are £10 per person paid through PayPal in advance, fully refundable up to 1 week before the event just in case life happens.

Party will take place in Belfast (exact location will be revealed to all ticket holders on the day).

This event is purely social- what happens before and after is completely up to you.

We would love to welcome new couples and ladies too, so please, if you have any queries at all, don't hesitate to send us a message. There is not a single question we will leave unanswered x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

So sorry I won't make this one but it will be a great night and totally recommended if you a newbie to socials xx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Ooooooh put us down darling - dancing shoes at the ready.

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By *aughtyhotlipsWoman  over a year ago

belfast

[Removed by poster at 06/02/20 08:30:32]

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By *aughtyhotlipsWoman  over a year ago

belfast

Looking forward to it

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple  over a year ago

Lisburn

Count us in

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By *ig...LadMan  over a year ago

Belfast

I hope u can find a little room for a BigDave!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Me me me... Can I go??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Woohoo defo be there!!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Count us in "

Yay Mr you can make this one! Xx

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By *ustkrissMan  over a year ago

Belfast

I will only go if the music is good

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Count me in

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Would love to attend

3rd time lucky

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Looking like a brilliant bunch already!

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By *ayhall27Man  over a year ago

Antrim

Is this event open to everyone? Curious if I'm able to attend

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Is this event open to everyone? Curious if I'm able to attend "

Verified users only dear

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Is this event open to everyone? Curious if I'm able to attend "

The organisers of this are also hosting a wee social open to unverified members on the 28th of February.

Failing that I'd be more than happy to meet you for a cuppa if needs be!

Oh and best of luck to the OPs, sure to be a great night!

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By *scapism123Man  over a year ago

belfast

Any single male spots I’d like to be put in

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We would be very interested thanks

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hi we would be very interested if you’ll have us x J & C

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By *oconuts39Woman  over a year ago

Northern Ireland

Could we get an invite had to miss last one as kids took sick last minute x fingers crossed for this time x

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By *elfastman..Man  over a year ago

belfast

Hi stick my name down il book work off that night . Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Interested..would love to see what all the fuss is about..

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Thanks to all who expressed interest. Will get back to you with more details shortly xx

Single men, please be patient, let us confirm plenty of ladies and couples first, nobody wants a sausage party

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We are interested

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We would love to go to this one please x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"We would love to go to this one please x"

Whoop whoop xx

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By *eaversbrookCouple  over a year ago

Armagh

Count us in x

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By *iscreet and muscledMan  over a year ago

Antwerp Belgium

I want to go, how do I get on the list?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I would love to be considered for an invite if possible please.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I would love to attend if there is still space available. Thank you

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Very much intersted. Appreciate there will be alot of single guys applying. If any spaces available for single verified gent please let me know. Thank you

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By *actilelover 99Man  over a year ago

Portadown

Are older divorced guys welcome or seen as the proverbial dirty old man lol ?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I’m interested and free that weekend. Would love to get to meet more people over here.

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By *lassy lady 216Woman  over a year ago

Craigavon

Hi would love to go to this been to previous ones and they have been a great success

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By *gentleman44Man  over a year ago

dublin

I'd very much love to attend

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By *hocko87Man  over a year ago

dublin

Hello I would luv to attend please

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By *uittopMan  over a year ago

South County Dublin

I would love to attend this Social. Have been advised by agentleman54 to contact you.

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By *ndefiniteSparkMan  over a year ago

ignites minds to unite ...

Belfast yaayyyy .

Finally I would get a chance to meet our forumites from Belfast , see few friendly faces in this thread.

If number of my veris is an obstacle for the moment , keep a spot for me please, this will change after Kildare social

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Thank you very much for everybody's interest so far

Single men, please do be patient - we are not ignoring you. Will get back to you shortly too xx

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By *yesgreenMan  over a year ago

north and south


"Thank you very much for everybody's interest so far

Single men, please do be patient - we are not ignoring you. Will get back to you shortly too xx "

Maybe a single lady would like a chaperone, so it's not to many sausages

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

6 weeks to go - 60% of the guest list filled

Will start sending out confirmation messages next Monday x

P.S. I LOVE the venue

Exciting times ahead

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"6 weeks to go - 60% of the guest list filled

Will start sending out confirmation messages next Monday x

P.S. I LOVE the venue

Exciting times ahead "

Eeeeek can’t wait!! Xx

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"6 weeks to go - 60% of the guest list filled

Will start sending out confirmation messages next Monday x

P.S. I LOVE the venue

Exciting times ahead "

Can you put me down for it missus I will try and get it off work xx

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"6 weeks to go - 60% of the guest list filled

Will start sending out confirmation messages next Monday x

P.S. I LOVE the venue

Exciting times ahead

Can you put me down for it missus I will try and get it off work xx"

Absolutely! Will be amazing to finally meet you xx

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"6 weeks to go - 60% of the guest list filled

Will start sending out confirmation messages next Monday x

P.S. I LOVE the venue

Exciting times ahead

Can you put me down for it missus I will try and get it off work xx

Absolutely! Will be amazing to finally meet you xx "

Ye it would be great to finally meet

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By *ealitybitesMan  over a year ago

Belfast

I'd like to add my name to the waiting list please.

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"I'd like to add my name to the waiting list please. "

Ohhh hope the waiting list isn't long so

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"I'd like to add my name to the waiting list please.

Ohhh hope the waiting list isn't long so "

Only men's wait list so far. Women and couples are skipping the line as usual

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"I'd like to add my name to the waiting list please.

Ohhh hope the waiting list isn't long so

Only men's wait list so far. Women and couples are skipping the line as usual "

Good to know I'm hoping RB isn't too far down the mens list tho

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Happy Valentines everyone!!! Xxxx

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

Happy Valentines to you too Dirk hope you and Missus have a great day x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Alright folks how is everyone? Hope your all having a good Valentine’s Day! Hows the numbers looking for this, single male invites/tickets available?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Happy Valentines to you too Dirk hope you and Missus have a great day x"

Thankyou so much Bo! Unfortunately its work work work tonight but we will make up for it

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Happy Valentines everyone!!! Xxxx"

Happy Valentine's you sexy pair xx

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Happy Valentines everyone!!! Xxxx

Happy Valentine's you sexy pair xx"

Thankyou so much. Hope you had a great weekend xx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hi I’m interested in this event?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Thanks so much for the reply! You seem like such a lovely couple! Look forward to meeting you both

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I’d like to be added too

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By *ndefiniteSparkMan  over a year ago

ignites minds to unite ...


"I'd like to add my name to the waiting list please.

Ohhh hope the waiting list isn't long so

Only men's wait list so far. Women and couples are skipping the line as usual "

How long is that waiting list and what's my number on it?

Just need to figure out if I can afford bribes for all those with lower numbers than me

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Thanks very much for all interest, we'll be sending out invites and all details tonight, tomorrow and Thursday xx

(Working around work at the moment, so please bare with us)

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

No rota for that weekend yet, but if I’m not working Sunday, we’ll be there. If you’ll have us of course. X

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We'd love to go! Had to miss the last one!

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By *iggBadDaveMan  over a year ago

Ards

If any room for single males I would love to go. Or if any ladies out there looking a plus one drop me a message x

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"No rota for that weekend yet, but if I’m not working Sunday, we’ll be there. If you’ll have us of course. X "

Ok keep us posted. It would be great to see you.

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"We'd love to go! Had to miss the last one! "

Absolutely. Very welcome to come. We will contact you more details in a while. X

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By *rnymale29Man  over a year ago

Belfast

I would love to attend guys if any spots open

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By *inkycoupleMFxxxCouple  over a year ago

Belfast

We would love to go if it not full already ??????

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Folks, this evening we're sending out all details to everyone who expressed interest, if any ladies or couples haven't received a message, please get in touch xx

(single gents, if you haven't received yours yet, please be patient - we're all about male/female balance).

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By *rnymale29Man  over a year ago

Belfast


"Folks, this evening we're sending out all details to everyone who expressed interest, if any ladies or couples haven't received a message, please get in touch xx

(single gents, if you haven't received yours yet, please be patient - we're all about male/female balance). "

That’s very important, no-one wants a sausage fest

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Looking forward to it everyone :p

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By *isterMan  over a year ago

Belfast

Please count me in guys; I might be a newbie to swinging, but I’m no stranger to firing a party up. Shy too . . .

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Please count me in guys; I might be a newbie to swinging, but I’m no stranger to firing a party up. Shy too . . ."

Hey, this one is for meet verified users only x

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By *iggBadDaveMan  over a year ago

Ards

Can't wait for this. Thanks guys

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Can't wait for this. Thanks guys "

Should be great fun

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Count us in! X

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By *an For YouMan  over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Can’t wait xxxxxx

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Can’t wait xxxxxx"

I don't believe you have a ticket my friend

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Have a great time everyone

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By *inkycoupleMFxxxCouple  over a year ago

Belfast

We're looking forward to this

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Would there still spaces available for us?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Would there still spaces available for us? "

Absolutely! will pm you details xx

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By *an For YouMan  over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Coming with a fab friend actually

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Coming with a fab friend actually"

Of course you are.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hope ye all have an amazing time tonight x

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By *aura66Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Coming with a fab friend actually"

Not to this one , as it’s taking place in March

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By *an For YouMan  over a year ago

belfast/holywood


"Coming with a fab friend actually

Not to this one , as it’s taking place in March "

Yes I know. March. The clue is in the title of the thread .

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 22/02/20 10:44:13]

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Coming with a fab friend actually

Not to this one , as it’s taking place in March

Yes I know. March. The clue is in the title of the thread . "

You most definitely aren't on our guest list. Not by yourself, not as a plus one.

Not with this profile anyway.

It is generally frowned upon having more than one profile to avoid people's filters (looks like it may be the case here).

I don't know how many profiles you may have, nor do I wish to know as it's non of my business

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By *ONDYWoman  over a year ago

00heaven


"Coming with a fab friend actually

Not to this one , as it’s taking place in March

Yes I know. March. The clue is in the title of the thread . "

Absolute chancer. Why would you block a host it you're attending their m&g??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Any spots available for single males ?

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By *an For YouMan  over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Lots of people have profiles as a single and as a couple . It’s nothing to do with getting around filters. I only have one profile . A female fwb of mine has a couples profile which is used to meet couples. It’s pretty simple really. I could probably name 10 or 15 couples who have this set up. There is no need for such hostility.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Where can I get tickets for 9th may thanks

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By *aura66Woman  over a year ago

Belfast


"Coming with a fab friend actually

Not to this one , as it’s taking place in March

Yes I know. March. The clue is in the title of the thread .

You most definitely aren't on our guest list. Not by yourself, not as a plus one.

Not with this profile anyway.

It is generally frowned upon having more than one profile to avoid people's filters (looks like it may be the case here).

I don't know how many profiles you may have, nor do I wish to know as it's non of my business "

You’re not on any guest list , for anything..

Can’t think why not mind you lolol

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Lots of people have profiles as a single and as a couple . It’s nothing to do with getting around filters. I only have one profile . A female fwb of mine has a couples profile which is used to meet couples. It’s pretty simple really. I could probably name 10 or 15 couples who have this set up. There is no need for such hostility."

You have burned your own bridges with your cheek and bad attitude.

Please feel free to attend other events where hosts have no issues with your lovely self.

Our main goal is to make all of our guests comfortable and happy. No sour grapes allowed.

Best of luck in future, we will not be part of yours.

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By *ayhall27Man  over a year ago

Antrim

I would like to be added to the waiting list for the event please.

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"I would like to be added to the waiting list for the event please. "

Sorry dear, this is for verified users only.

Check our event on 10th of April - very welcome to put your name down to it.

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Single men, please be patient. All spots are full at the moment. We have added a lot of people to the wait list- will be sending more invitations as new spots open up (if they do).

Please do express your interest in this thread (we are not ignoring anyone and taking a note of everyone's name as we go) x

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

As all event organisers know, it is very hard and time consuming sorting through the lists of messages and forum post from people who wish to attend. Our events so far have seen some of the nicest decent people in attendance. When we allow someone to attend we don't just look at their profile and their pics and verifications. We are on forums constantly and see how people interact with other people. When we see someone purposely causing agro and and generally just being unpleasant we make a decision not to interact with that person. Why therefore, would we put a person like that in a room full of respectable people who we know and trust and who's only aim is to meet and socialise and have a good time without having their views questioned or made to feel uncomfortable. We will not risk the happiness of 100+ guests so that one greatly outspoken person can come along. Dan

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By *ed VixenWoman  over a year ago

vixenville

Well said x

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By *ed VixenWoman  over a year ago

vixenville


"I hope u can find a little room for a BigDave!"

If you are going oh could I put my name down too we need a catch up this would be a good opportunity

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"I hope u can find a little room for a BigDave!

If you are going oh could I put my name down too we need a catch up this would be a good opportunity "

Done and done xx

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Room is filling up really fast! And there's still over a month to go

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Have fun and stay safe everyone!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hi,

I will be in Belfast on 25th and 26th of March and will stay in a hotel. Do you have any social meet on those days?

Happy to have a small group fun in my hotel room too. If you want to organise one on those days, please send me a message.

Thanks.

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Hi,

I will be in Belfast on 25th and 26th of March and will stay in a hotel. Do you have any social meet on those days?

Happy to have a small group fun in my hotel room too. If you want to organise one on those days, please send me a message.

Thanks."

Hi, I'm sorry we don't organise events on behalf of others. Feel free to start your own forum thread though

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Thanks for the reply. Will do.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I'd love to try one of these events but understand single male slots are probably slim

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"I'd love to try one of these events but understand single male slots are probably slim"

We have slots in our 10th April event for unverified guys if you would like to attend on that date

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple  over a year ago

Lisburn

Woop tickets sorted can't wait

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By *ealitybitesMan  over a year ago

Belfast


"Woop tickets sorted can't wait "

Same here.

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By *ndefiniteSparkMan  over a year ago

ignites minds to unite ...


"Woop tickets sorted can't wait

Same here. "

Mine sorted too

Belfast here we go.

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Anyone started counting sleeps yet?

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By *ig...LadMan  over a year ago

Belfast


"I hope u can find a little room for a BigDave!

If you are going oh could I put my name down too we need a catch up this would be a good opportunity

Done and done xx "

Thanks, I can't wait x

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By *amiee89TV/TS  over a year ago

derry

Does anyone know what date this is on as I'd like go thanks

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By *reddieRaeCouple  over a year ago

Banbridge

We're late as usual.... Any space for a little one (and a not so little one)?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Does anyone know what date this is on as I'd like go thanks"

It's 28th of March 2020

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"We're late as usual.... Any space for a little one (and a not so little one)? "

Of course lol

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By *reddieRaeCouple  over a year ago

Banbridge


"We're late as usual.... Any space for a little one (and a not so little one)?

Of course lol "

Thankyooouuu!! We'll both be home later tonight and sort then!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"We're late as usual.... Any space for a little one (and a not so little one)?

Of course lol

Thankyooouuu!! We'll both be home later tonight and sort then! "

FreddieRea

How long has it been YEARS

So excited you both are going

Cant wait to have a catch up with you both.xxx

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By *reddieRaeCouple  over a year ago

Banbridge


"We're late as usual.... Any space for a little one (and a not so little one)?

Of course lol

Thankyooouuu!! We'll both be home later tonight and sort then!

FreddieRea

How long has it been YEARS

So excited you both are going

Cant wait to have a catch up with you both.xxx"

Happy days!! Be great to see you again! can't wait!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hey guys, if there is still spaces left we would love to go. Your first one was great x

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Hey guys, if there is still spaces left we would love to go. Your first one was great x"

Of course! Will pm you all details x

It'll be a big one - plenty of ladies and couples spaces still left xx

Gents, as usual, please be patient, we will get back to you very soon.

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

Hotel booked this morning so looking forward to this night now

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Hotel booked this morning so looking forward to this night now "

This looks like its going to be a great night. A lot of fun people going.

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By *ustBoWoman  over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down


"Hotel booked this morning so looking forward to this night now

This looks like its going to be a great night. A lot of fun people going. "

Pity you can't make this one

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Kik group opening next...... Will need to create two kik groups actually.lol. If you havent already mailed us your kik usernames please do this asap.

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By *ittlekinks38Woman  over a year ago

outside belfast x

Any tickets left ?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Is there tickets still available

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Is there any couples tickets left?

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

To all, who have received the invitation and ticket details, please get back to us as places are filling up really fast and we need your confirmation xx

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By *ogladyWoman  over a year ago

The bog

Best of luck with it if I could have got the time off work I would have went hopefully next one..have. Great time..xxxx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"To all, who have received the invitation and ticket details, please get back to us as places are filling up really fast and we need your confirmation xx "

Replied guys x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Hey there is it too late to register interest?

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By *ndefiniteSparkMan  over a year ago

ignites minds to unite ...


"Kik group opening next...... Will need to create two kik groups actually.lol. If you havent already mailed us your kik usernames please do this asap."

Only seeing this now , PM send with details .

See you in Belfast

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Hey there is it too late to register interest? "

Not at all. Got a few spaces left. Pm on its way

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By *iscreet horny300Man  over a year ago

North coast

Hey folks I have been looking to go to one of these events for a long time. Any spaces free for me

? Pm me thankz

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Only a few single ladies and couples tickets left, venue is booked, kik group is running, everyone is up to date and most importantly - everyone is VERY excited!

Single guys, please be patient, we are giving tickets as single men's spots open up.

If we haven't got back to you yet - we will when we have a space open up, we do take note of everyone interested and do have a waitlist x

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By *ioi94Man  over a year ago

drogheda

Hello all, new to the idea of this. Not overly activenon here but would love to potentially meet others. Best to come alone of partner?? ??

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By *ealitybitesMan  over a year ago

Belfast

Not long to go now.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Only a few single ladies and couples tickets left, venue is booked, kik group is running, everyone is up to date and most importantly - everyone is VERY excited!

Single guys, please be patient, we are giving tickets as single men's spots open up.

If we haven't got back to you yet - we will when we have a space open up, we do take note of everyone interested and do have a waitlist x "

So any chance of squeezing this Irish gal in

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Ticjet got but if has to be rescheduled you two better check the date with me first

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast

Unfortunately due to rapidly changing circumstances with that virus that shall not be spoken about, we have had to postpone all upcoming events. We are gutted to say the least but in the end it is a health and safety concern and everyones health must come first. If you are in one of our kik groups you will already know this but if you are seeing this for the first time then any questions you have will be answered below.

Anyone who has a ticket can remain on the guest list for the next Event (hopefully in May) or alternatively we can offer a full refund.

Dan and Mary xx

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Think you have made the right choice guys

As much as everyone is disappointed, everyone's health is more important

We will all be ready for a good night out by the time everything settles down

I'm more than happy to stay on the guest list

Big Kisses from LW x

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

So disappointed but it's definitely the right thing to do for now plus it means we have more to celebrate in May

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"Think you have made the right choice guys

As much as everyone is disappointed, everyone's health is more important

We will all be ready for a good night out by the time everything settles down

I'm more than happy to stay on the guest list

Big Kisses from LW x"

Thankyou so much. We will keep everyone updated xx

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By *ungry Cat OP   Couple  over a year ago

Belfast


"So disappointed but it's definitely the right thing to do for now plus it means we have more to celebrate in May "

And we have a bit more time to plan something even bigger now

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Not worries at all . Till the next one

Stay safe

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By *ayhall27Man  over a year ago

Antrim

You are both doing the right thing for sure. Can't risk events in this time.

Curious tho for the unverified event. Will that be moved forward to may too?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"You are both doing the right thing for sure. Can't risk events in this time.

Curious tho for the unverified event. Will that be moved forward to may too?"

If you hit the green arrow beside ops name it shows you the other post re 10th April. It's postponed too

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