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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
"
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly. |
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By *un4tooCouple
over a year ago
north cork |
While i would love to be able to speak in my native tongue,it wouldn't be of much benefit to us in reality. Even if we all speak it, it wouldn't be recognised outside of Ireland. There would be no other country in the world take it up as a school subject. I think the current curriculum of Spanish/french/german is much more worthwhile in today's world. Pity but reality. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly."
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight. |
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"While i would love to be able to speak in my native tongue,it wouldn't be of much benefit to us in reality. Even if we all speak it, it wouldn't be recognised outside of Ireland. There would be no other country in the world take it up as a school subject. I think the current curriculum of Spanish/french/german is much more worthwhile in today's world. Pity but reality. "
This is the "normal" counter argument that is used and I fundamentally disagree. Why does it have to be useful outside the country? Are Scandinavian languages useful outside their countries, yet they are live languages? Why see Irish as a school subject that should have a purpose outside Ireland? Why not see it as a fundamental part of who we are and something that makes us unique? |
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By *un4tooCouple
over a year ago
north cork |
"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly.
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight. "
What benefits tho? Genuine question
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly.
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight.
What benefits tho? Genuine question
"
The benefit of having our own language, the benefit of being able to read and understand the poems and books that were written in that language. The pride that should be evident in our own culture and history and origin. I know there might not be direct commercial benefits, but does something have to be making money to be considered important and worthwhile? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly.
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight.
What benefits tho? Genuine question
"
Culture, heritage, pride. Tá an bród agam chun a bheith abalta Gaeilge a labhairt. The problem with Gaeilge is how it’s taught in secondary. Most kids come through primary with a decent level of Gaeilge but then the expectations jump a mile and they are suddenly expected to start learning poetry and prose as Gaeilge. There is little or no continuation from Primary School.
There needs to be a radical overhaul of how it is taught before they can make it optional. As things stand a large percentage would drop it.
As someone who went to a Gaeilscoil, I would love to see all primary schools become Gaeilscoileanna. That way we would bring up a whole generation with fluent Irish. |
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Abu-dhabi and other Arabic regions, you can actually go into any shop and speak arabic, they use it in their religion, its the offical langauge.
Now English is their second language, and English is a hard language to perfect, but also its an easy, very easy language to access. All the films, books, music.
Lots of countries for this reason end up very good English speakers.
So Ireland, where can you speak Irish? nowhere really. Can't speak it in shops, on the bus, in work. What media can you access, just one channel.
They do a great job with whats available, but an hour a day in a classroom is a waste of time. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. You only pick up Irish if you go to the summer camp, or an Irish school, or happen to be one of the few who are good at picking up a language.
Now what if someone is dyslexic? is it fair to force them to do English, Irish, French? Lets not forget if they fail Irish and French then they wont be able to get into law/business/medicine cause they wont have the points. How is that fair? |
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly.
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight.
What benefits tho? Genuine question
Culture, heritage, pride. Tá an bród agam chun a bheith abalta Gaeilge a labhairt. The problem with Gaeilge is how it’s taught in secondary. Most kids come through primary with a decent level of Gaeilge but then the expectations jump a mile and they are suddenly expected to start learning poetry and prose as Gaeilge. There is little or no continuation from Primary School.
There needs to be a radical overhaul of how it is taught before they can make it optional. As things stand a large percentage would drop it.
As someone who went to a Gaeilscoil, I would love to see all primary schools become Gaeilscoileanna. That way we would bring up a whole generation with fluent Irish. "
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"Abu-dhabi and other Arabic regions, you can actually go into any shop and speak arabic, they use it in their religion, its the offical langauge.
"
...and the most likely reason for that is that during the Crusades, they refused to be conquered and be forced to drop their language and culture.
We got conquered and the English embarked on a brutal and orchestrated campaign to Anglicise Ireland, changing placenames, forcing people to drop the 'O' and 'Mc' from their family names, ensuring the language of education was change to English, etc. They succeeded. Its nearly dead.
Whats worse is the succeeding generations of Irish people (through lack of awareness or apathy of what happened) didn't care enough to reverse the process.
Finally, your argument on dyslexia and people having to know or learn two languages does not stand up. As I posted earlier, the Arabic people here don't seem to have a problem with it and are very comfortable in both languages, regularly switch in mid sentence to English and vice versa. So if they can do it, if other countries can do it, why not Irish people? |
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By *ateniteCouple
over a year ago
Youghal |
With English as a first language there is no real incentive to learn other languages, particularly one that has no practical use in the real world.
Other nations are bi-lingual because English is a global language and they have to learn it for travel, business etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's two problems. There's a lack of respect for the language in most grown ups. When kids tell their parents they find irish difficult they usually say ah never mind that you don't need it anyway and the other problem is the way it's taught. I was getting As and Bs in German and I was a lazy student but I was struggling big time with Irish. I could pretty much ask any question and answer it in German, I would say I would have been relatively at home if I was forced to speak it. Its been close to ten years since I've used it so I've forgotten 80% of it but even now when I hear the odd German word it's translation comes back. In Irish I probably had 10 lines of the language. Now I admit that I was very lazy student in all subjects but how is it possible to do well in one language and struggle massively with the other? In the way its taught. I also fancied my German teacher and that helped a little  |
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"Finally, your argument on dyslexia and people having to know or learn two languages does not stand up. As I posted earlier, the Arabic people here don't seem to have a problem with it and are very comfortable in both languages, regularly switch in mid sentence to English and vice versa. So if they can do it, if other countries can do it, why not Irish people? "
Actually my stance on dyslexia does stand up, because Arabic has a different alphabet which means its harder for a dyslexic person to mix them up. The closer the things look/sound the more it messes with dyslexic people.
I know, I am dyslexic and i did very well in hindi, and used sanskrit learning it. Also, like I said, arabic is their first language and English their second so they have films etc.
Where can the dyslexic person find all the Irish content and practice in the real world? They cant. At one point in secondary school I was forced to learn Irish, English, French, German.
What a load of nonsense.
Also I know history, but honestly. They didn't die for me to be forced to speak Irish, they died so no one would force me to speak another language again. They didn't take the Protestant churches in Dublin back, they put protection in place so protestants could keep their faith. They didn't push English people out, they let them stay. They put protection for all life into the constitution, they put protection for all religions in the constitution. They put neutrality in the constitution, they wanted me to speak English or Irish whatever I want. To vote or to not vote.
Being forced to speak Irish is just the same as being forced to speak English. They did not die for that.
But what does it matter what they died for. Abortion is legal, they will be removing protection for religion soon to allow blasphemy. Everything they died for is gone. |
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"With English as a first language there is no real incentive to learn other languages, particularly one that has no practical use in the real world.
Other nations are bi-lingual because English is a global language and they have to learn it for travel, business etc."
...and this, unfortunately sums it up perfectly. No-one really gives a damn and 'being Irish' has no real meaning to anyone any more.
The sad fact of the matter is that we are 'Little England'. We speak English, we watch English-origined television (even the adverts on Sky Ireland tend to be English with English voice actors), our newspapers are in the main English origin, everyone tends to support an English Premiership team rather than one from Spain or Italy, magazines - English, music style - largely British influenced, etc. etc. We no longer have our own identity.
And that is why Irish will never make a comeback into our society.
I'll give over now |
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By *un4tooCouple
over a year ago
north cork |
"With English as a first language there is no real incentive to learn other languages, particularly one that has no practical use in the real world.
Other nations are bi-lingual because English is a global language and they have to learn it for travel, business etc.
...and this, unfortunately sums it up perfectly. No-one really gives a damn and 'being Irish' has no real meaning to anyone any more.
The sad fact of the matter is that we are 'Little England'. We speak English, we watch English-origined television (even the adverts on Sky Ireland tend to be English with English voice actors), our newspapers are in the main English origin, everyone tends to support an English Premiership team rather than one from Spain or Italy, magazines - English, music style - largely British influenced, etc. etc. We no longer have our own identity.
And that is why Irish will never make a comeback into our society.
I'll give over now "
Being Irish has no meaning to people. That's laughable. Ya do give over now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Learning a language changes the way you think and see things. We were taught this in school but I can't remember how. Different cultures will describe the same exact same object in different ways so if you're bi lingual you probably see things in more ways that one. So Irish or any second language is always useful.
Here's a useless but cool fact also, the Irish language describes black people as blue people because to call them black people or black person in Irish could have caused confusion and mixed them up with the devil which in Irish was "the black man". See how considerate our ancestors were? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My son hated Irish and struggled with it all the way up to second year despite my best efforts (his father's antipathy towards the language didn't help). Then I sent my son to the Gaeltacht and the transformation was remarkable.
He's now at uni, one of his chosen subjects? Irish |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son hated Irish and struggled with it all the way up to second year despite my best efforts (his father's antipathy towards the language didn't help). Then I sent my son to the Gaeltacht and the transformation was remarkable.
He's now at uni, one of his chosen subjects? Irish "
Thats it there's a problem with most adults that don't speak it. I don't speak it but if I've kids I will be doing my very best to encourage them to learn it. My parents and all my friends parents would say "ah shur its only irish, never mind that, do well in French and you'll be grand" it's a bad attitude even if you can't speak it yourself. Down the line I hope to relearn irish from scratch. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With English as a first language there is no real incentive to learn other languages, particularly one that has no practical use in the real world.
Other nations are bi-lingual because English is a global language and they have to learn it for travel, business etc.
...and this, unfortunately sums it up perfectly. No-one really gives a damn and 'being Irish' has no real meaning to anyone any more.
The sad fact of the matter is that we are 'Little England'. We speak English, we watch English-origined television (even the adverts on Sky Ireland tend to be English with English voice actors), our newspapers are in the main English origin, everyone tends to support an English Premiership team rather than one from Spain or Italy, magazines - English, music style - largely British influenced, etc. etc. We no longer have our own identity.
And that is why Irish will never make a comeback into our society.
I'll give over now
Being Irish has no meaning to people. That's laughable. Ya do give over now "
Speak for yourself and not for ‘people.’ It may not have meaning for you but it’s wrong to say it doesn’t for everyone or anyone. I don’t mean that in an argumentative way, just a heads up |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I recently had a good debate about the Irish language where people were saying that it should be a choice if student's take it or not personally I think it should stay compulsory what are your views
I've been living in Abu Dhabi for a year now. All the Emirati people are bi-lingual. They speak Arabic with each other but the language of business and most schools, hospitals, shops, etc is English.
They are a very proud people and don't need to be forced to speak their language, they do it as a natural matter of course. And their English is usually extremely good. In some respects its even harder for them to be bi-lingual as the arabic language is based on the Arabic alphabet.
So why as Irish people were we so quick to be happy to burn our own language in favour of English?
To answer the question directly, if other parts of the world can do it (i.e. be bi-lingual - like Scandinavian countries for example), then why can't we Irish. So not only do I think it should be compulsory, I think there should be a National initiative to bring it back properly.
Our local secondary school has initiated Irish only learning from September. All classes will be taught as gaeilge, and while I know it will be a problem for some teachers and some students, I think it will be of massive benefit in the long run. People fought and died and killed other people for our native language, it's a part of us, it shouldn't be let go without a fight. "
Thats fantastic and fair play to the school and their teachers
Its a fantastic language |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Finally, your argument on dyslexia and people having to know or learn two languages does not stand up. As I posted earlier, the Arabic people here don't seem to have a problem with it and are very comfortable in both languages, regularly switch in mid sentence to English and vice versa. So if they can do it, if other countries can do it, why not Irish people?
Actually my stance on dyslexia does stand up, because Arabic has a different alphabet which means its harder for a dyslexic person to mix them up. The closer the things look/sound the more it messes with dyslexic people.
I know, I am dyslexic and i did very well in hindi, and used sanskrit learning it. Also, like I said, arabic is their first language and English their second so they have films etc.
Where can the dyslexic person find all the Irish content and practice in the real world? They cant. At one point in secondary school I was forced to learn Irish, English, French, German.
What a load of nonsense.
Also I know history, but honestly. They didn't die for me to be forced to speak Irish, they died so no one would force me to speak another language again. They didn't take the Protestant churches in Dublin back, they put protection in place so protestants could keep their faith. They didn't push English people out, they let them stay. They put protection for all life into the constitution, they put protection for all religions in the constitution. They put neutrality in the constitution, they wanted me to speak English or Irish whatever I want. To vote or to not vote.
Being forced to speak Irish is just the same as being forced to speak English. They did not die for that.
But what does it matter what they died for. Abortion is legal, they will be removing protection for religion soon to allow blasphemy. Everything they died for is gone."
They died for you to have a vote and a voice mate so the least you could do is speak for them |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
Yes to Irish, it's a beautiful language. No better time to learn a language than in your childhood. Any second language refines your ability and affinity to learn even more languages. Unfortunately in English speaking countries you find often a complacency to learn other languages, the 'with English you get anywhere' attitude. Speaking different languages is a treasure nobody can take away from you. I speak 4 1/2 languages - unfortunately not Irish - and I love being able to do so. |
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It should stay compulsory up to junior cycle and optional for leaving. It's a beautiful language and truly unique. We should do our best to preserve it. The way it's thought though needs to be changed. We need to inspire people to want to speak it, to have passion for our heritage  |
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"Finally, your argument on dyslexia and people having to know or learn two languages does not stand up. As I posted earlier, the Arabic people here don't seem to have a problem with it and are very comfortable in both languages, regularly switch in mid sentence to English and vice versa. So if they can do it, if other countries can do it, why not Irish people?
Actually my stance on dyslexia does stand up, because Arabic has a different alphabet which means its harder for a dyslexic person to mix them up. The closer the things look/sound the more it messes with dyslexic people.
I know, I am dyslexic and i did very well in hindi, and used sanskrit learning it. Also, like I said, arabic is their first language and English their second so they have films etc.
Where can the dyslexic person find all the Irish content and practice in the real world? They cant. At one point in secondary school I was forced to learn Irish, English, French, German.
What a load of nonsense.
Also I know history, but honestly. They didn't die for me to be forced to speak Irish, they died so no one would force me to speak another language again. They didn't take the Protestant churches in Dublin back, they put protection in place so protestants could keep their faith. They didn't push English people out, they let them stay. They put protection for all life into the constitution, they put protection for all religions in the constitution. They put neutrality in the constitution, they wanted me to speak English or Irish whatever I want. To vote or to not vote.
Being forced to speak Irish is just the same as being forced to speak English. They did not die for that.
But what does it matter what they died for. Abortion is legal, they will be removing protection for religion soon to allow blasphemy. Everything they died for is gone."
You made eloquent points till the last paragraph. . The Ireland "they" died for was a long time gone. It went when our religious orders stole babies, ra ed and buggered, buried children in unmarked graves , made slaves of those weaker and stood by and watched women die rather then save the only life there was. Remove the rose tinted glasses. This country was never the country it should of been. It was never capable of protecting those that needed protection. It was always to corrupt. I look forward to separation of church and state |
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"And like every other thread, 15 comments in and its not even remotely related to the original topic. Gotta love fab "
The joy of open conversation is it could lead anywhere .. like this discussion. Gotta love the human mind |
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