FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > ulster rugby case

ulster rugby case

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Is it making any men nervous about engaging in unorthodox group sex ?

It’s certainly turning me off it. Everyone needs to be so careful and in control of themselves and 100% certain that everyone actively consents (no room for passive consent or uncertainty).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In the last year I've met three girls who all told me the were sexually abused and none of them have reported it. I don't work in a job where I would come across this. I'm not a professional at all. Three is a huge number in a year. There's loads of scum men walking around our streets. Off point but the latest one told me the weekend and I'm just shocked.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it making any men nervous about engaging in unorthodox group sex ?

It’s certainly turning me off it. Everyone needs to be so careful and in control of themselves and 100% certain that everyone actively consents (no room for passive consent or uncertainty). "

Simply and clearly if you engage in a sexual activity and the word NO come up , every move or act after that is considered as non-consent .

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/02/18 21:20:58]

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By *evil_u_knowMan over a year ago

city

"Simply and clearly if you engage in a sexual activity and the word NO come up , every move or act after that is considered as non-consent .

Wrong. If the word "Yes" does not come up first, then its considered non-consent.

Turn up to a house and the girl is already gagged and blindfolded (which i know people on here do), then the girl has not consented and can later say she never did, and the courts will agree with her 100%

I'm not worried at all, I wont even look at people without their permission, and didn't grow up in a rugby school attending dances at aged 17 having sex with the 13 and 14 year old girls etc.

But the guys who break or do not get consent are not worried either, not even when they go to court, and they only worry when the guilty plea comes in, and then they just worry about their own safety. etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Is it making any men nervous about engaging in unorthodox group sex ?

It’s certainly turning me off it. Everyone needs to be so careful and in control of themselves and 100% certain that everyone actively consents (no room for passive consent or uncertainty).

Simply and clearly if you engage in a sexual activity and the word NO come up , every move or act after that is considered as non-consent .

I think it’s safest to double check that everyone opts in ...... no room for doubt or mixed messages or freezing, double check that everyone actively wants to do it, no one is passive.

Of course anything after no or stop is wrong ..... no cajoling or talking people around or force after that.

To be careful though I think people / men should double check in advance that everything is cool and everyone wants the same action.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan over a year ago

Tipperary

question is are they guilty

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think. The drink got the better of them. The girl said yes. Then it changed. Then they didn’t want to stop

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I think people get waaaaaay toooo flipping d*unk .... especially in early 20s and it’s hard to gage if everyone is on the same wavelength, judgment is off and things are hazy.

Men and women need to stay in control of themselves so nothing happens to anyone, so no one gets hurt and no one gets accused.

Also people need to really, really understand consent and boundaries.

It’s all very scary for all of them.

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By *evil_u_knowMan over a year ago

city

That's pretty much the worst excuse ever.

Surely no one over the age of 20 would buy the "I was d*unk bbz" argument. I have gotten so d*unk I climbed a ladder and danced along the roofs of houses, so d*unk I have woken up asleep on park benches,so d*unk I got in a fight with a stray dog over who was paying for the Chinese after the bastard stole a load on me that I put down.

But I have never just stuck my dick in a girl without talking to her first. If that's what you do when youre d*unk, stop fucking drinking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think they are guilty. She had bruises and a cut and was bawling crying as the fourth guy rushed her into a taxi. He also texted her asking if she was OK etc... I do think she enjoyed being around celebrities but I do think she's telling the truth too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's pretty much the worst excuse ever.

But I have never just stuck my dick in a girl without talking to her first. If that's what you do when youre d*unk, stop fucking drinking."

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Tbh I don’t know all the details - I had been avoiding reading about it .... but it’s everywhere so stumbled across some articles today.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's pretty much the worst excuse ever.

But I have never just stuck my dick in a girl without talking to her first. If that's what you do when youre d*unk, stop fucking drinking."

That's true. I very rarely change when d*unk. Definitely not to the extreme of forcing someone into sex. People love blaming every shit thing they do on drink. If someone fucks me over and blames drink they're done to me. I've drank and I've drank to extreme d*unkeness and this doesn't happen

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dunno, there’s plenty of holes in her story too. Like, how do you ‘forget’ another woman coming into the room?

Either way, I hope the actual truth is discovered.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dunno, there’s plenty of holes in her story too. Like, how do you ‘forget’ another woman coming into the room?

Either way, I hope the actual truth is discovered. "

Has that girl said anything yet? The one that opened the door then closed it again?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dunno, there’s plenty of holes in her story too. Like, how do you ‘forget’ another woman coming into the room?

Either way, I hope the actual truth is discovered.

Has that girl said anything yet? The one that opened the door then closed it again? "

I don’t think so, it’s just been the alleged victim for the past couple of days.

Will be interesting to see what that lady has to say.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dunno, there’s plenty of holes in her story too. Like, how do you ‘forget’ another woman coming into the room?

Either way, I hope the actual truth is discovered.

Has that girl said anything yet? The one that opened the door then closed it again?

I don’t think so, it’s just been the alleged victim for the past couple of days.

Will be interesting to see what that lady has to say. "

She's key. The lads are obviously going to say it was consensual. They probably have their story together perfectly (they might be telling the truth too to be fair). She was seen hanging around footballers the same night too. I think she enjoys being around celebrities. I just think from her texts to her friends that she sounds genuine. They can catch you out through your mobile activity these days and she never mentions or looks to be faking it in her texts

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By *j47Man over a year ago

limerick

Tbh I don’t know all the details - I had been avoiding reading about it .... but it’s everywhere so stumbled across some articles today.

The attention the press are giving it in my opinion is unwarranted if this was ordinary people they would not bat an eyelid at it, it's unfair that this girl has to read about her performance under cross examination and have every one making judgments on her behaviour that night brings undue pressure on her

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

Realistically speaking that's not going to happen. I gave my opinion on an ongoing case, to be fair prematurely. There's already 100s of opinions all over social media and there is with every high profile case. They're not going to pick out a random text on lets face it a not so popular site on the grand scale of things

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

I wonder if they’d leave me a solid verification after?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

The way some comments are being made they sound more like legal opinions based on some inside knowledge.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan over a year ago

Tipperary

imagine. go out, pull, bring her back to yours and she could potentially accuse you of r..pe the next day and go through a pile of rigmarole. brings a whole new thinking to one nighters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s certainly turning me off it. Everyone needs to be so careful and in control of themselves and 100% certain that everyone actively consents (no room for passive consent or uncertainty). "

Making sure everyone is 100% should be the first priority in ANY sexual encounter.

Absolutely no excuse for those lads' behaviour if it's true.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

The way some comments are being made they sound more like legal opinions based on some inside knowledge. "

Or maybe some are just watching the news/reading papers...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

The way some comments are being made they sound more like legal opinions based on some inside knowledge.

Or maybe some are just watching the news/reading papers..."

I'll happily come back and post on some of the so called facts posted here when the court case is over.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Personally speaking!

Innocent until proven guilty.

We wouldn't make assumptions and write posts on here about an ongoing court case based on a a few edited news items.

Would hate to end up in court defending a libel case.

The way some comments are being made they sound more like legal opinions based on some inside knowledge. "

All that information is available on the news. My judgement was and is premature but it also has no bearing on the outcome. Tomorrow I could be saying "women who falsely accuse people of r.pe should face jail time". I'll look very silly but shit happens.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/02/18 23:07:58]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So far it looks terrible for them.

The text conversation with Rory Harrison the next day say a lot.

"After dropping her home at 5.15am, Harrison sent her a message on WhatsApp that said, “Keep your chin up, you wonderful young woman.” Around noon that day, when she received a message from Harrison which asked “Feeling better today?”"

Her reply:

"To be honest, no. I know you must be mates with those guys, but I don’t like them. And what happened was not consensual which is why I was so upset."

Strikes me as very very strange if this lady did consent on the night and then quickly changed her mind the next day. Also if Harrison felt there was nothing wrong with how the events unfolded it's a very strange thing for him to text her. Sounds he knew well it was dodgy

Also apparently the taxi driver will testify that she was very upset in the journey home after it.

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By *etergemmaCouple over a year ago

South Dublin Area

I agree. The fact there mate tried his best to smooth it over and text her to see if she was ok. He really looks like he was trying to protect them cause he knew they were on dangerous ground.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I agree. The fact there mate tried his best to smooth it over and text her to see if she was ok. He really looks like he was trying to protect them cause he knew they were on dangerous ground."

she was very clear about what she thought 6/7 hours afterwards- she didn’t mince her words with him. His message to her was a little strange in the circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"imagine. go out, pull, bring her back to yours and she could potentially accuse you of r..pe the next day and go through a pile of rigmarole. brings a whole new thinking to one nighters. "

I have to agree with you. It's a dangerous world. But that was always the case. Since the rise of social media, we hear more and more about these sad stories. What really bothers me is why is it the accused faces are always plastered all over the papers.. tv.. social media.. you are innocent until proven guilty. Even if they are found innocent their name will always be attached to this crime! It's nuts.ive not seen her face??? Surely it should be put out there for all to see also??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The reason we don't name the accusers is because as it stands, r.ape is one of the most under-reported crimes. It is rarely reported and has a low conviction rate. You can access these statistics on any national statistics forum. A realistic estimate being that more than 90 percent of r.apes are never even reported. If there is to be a shift in our societal view to this, we must protect the anonymity of those brave enough to go to the police. There would be no one going to the police if they knew they would be named.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"imagine. go out, pull, bring her back to yours and she could potentially accuse you of r..pe the next day and go through a pile of rigmarole. brings a whole new thinking to one nighters. "

If you're that worried, don't bring someone back. For the majority of people, they don't worry because they don't r.ape the people that come back to their houses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The reason we don't name the accusers is because as it stands, r.ape is one of the most under-reported crimes. It is rarely reported and has a low conviction rate. You can access these statistics on any national statistics forum. A realistic estimate being that more than 90 percent of r.apes are never even reported. If there is to be a shift in our societal view to this, we must protect the anonymity of those brave enough to go to the police. There would be no one going to the police if they knew they would be named."

That's fair enough.. but if the accused is found to be innocent and she has been proven to be telling lies then he or she still has their name and face protected! It's nuts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Plus in this case you have a sportsman and sports fans can be fanatical and extreme so they could easily do something stupid if they knew her and crossed paths with her.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's fair enough.. but if the accused is found to be innocent and she has been proven to be telling lies then he or she still has their name and face protected! It's nuts."

Yes, that would be awful. It's a disgusting person that would accuse another of r.ape.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's fair enough.. but if the accused is found to be innocent and she has been proven to be telling lies then he or she still has their name and face protected! It's nuts.

Yes, that would be awful. It's a disgusting person that would accuse another of r.ape."

Do you remember when that man why plays "Ken Barlow" from Corry was accused of it and it went to court?? That poor man had to face pure lies and her story fell apart. It never happened. His name and face was dragged through the dirty for weeks. He was taken out of the tv until the case was over. And the accuser gets away with lying?? Surely they should be named and shamed! Or at least be convicted for wasting police time and the judges time! And a public apology!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, they should.

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By *owdyBoobyMan over a year ago

limerick

The texts are the kicker in this case.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

That's fair enough.. but if the accused is found to be innocent and she has been proven to be telling lies then he or she still has their name and face protected! It's nuts."

Would that still be the case if the accused in this case, if found to be innocent, then took out a case of slander on the woman in question?

That would be a completely separate legal issue and therefore the protection of a r@pe victim would not apply. I imagine that then her name/face would become public knowledge.

Obviously the currently accused are not likely to want to keep the article in the news, in this or any other similar case but , where a case is proven to be unfounded, it would be good if the accuser was then subjected to similar publicity as the guys in this case.

Understand that I only mean this where the accuser is shown to have been lying outright. I do not condone r@pe in any circumstances, just in case anyone takes me up wrongly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Even though there will be 12 ordinary citizens just like you and me who will spend three weeks watching and listening to every word of the evidence...

Even though those 12 people will then listen to the judge summarising the evidence and explaining the law..

Even though those 12 people will spend hours together discussing the evidence they heard first hand right in front of them 6 hours a day for weeks...

And finally those 12 ordinary people will then decide if they are guilty or innocent..

We will STILL have people who based on bits they read or heard second or fourth hand

Will decide THEY know better than those gobshites on the jury and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even though there will be 12 ordinary citizens just like you and me who will spend three weeks watching and listening to every word of the evidence...

Even though those 12 people will then listen to the judge summarising the evidence and explaining the law..

Even though those 12 people will spend hours together discussing the evidence they heard first hand right in front of them 6 hours a day for weeks...

And finally those 12 ordinary people will then decide if they are guilty or innocent..

We will STILL have people who based on bits they read or heard second or fourth hand

Will decide THEY know better than those gobshites on the jury and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"

Absolutely perfect comment and so right

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By *BelfastGuyMan over a year ago

Belfast

The girls underwear.

Seriously wtf.

Cause you wear nice underwear on a night out means your gagging for it.

Underwear is all part of the outfit.

Not a come Shag me statement.

Poor girl.

What dicks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even though there will be 12 ordinary citizens just like you and me who will spend three weeks watching and listening to every word of the evidence..."

I wouldn't trust 12 ordinary citizens to tie my shoelaces for me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Like. Would it not be ok or an idea to video someone consenting. Then that way ur safe. But then again half way thru if she says no u stop always. No is no

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even though there will be 12 ordinary citizens just like you and me who will spend three weeks watching and listening to every word of the evidence...

I wouldn't trust 12 ordinary citizens to tie my shoelaces for me."

Luckily for you you live in a country that insists that the standards you don't ascribe to others are offered to you regardless

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The girls underwear.

Seriously wtf.

Cause you wear nice underwear on a night out means your gagging for it.

Underwear is all part of the outfit.

Not a come Shag me statement.

Poor girl.

What dicks. "

Again, innocent until proven guilty.

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan over a year ago

Tipperary

Few holes in her story. Beginning to have a more halved view

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By *BelfastGuyMan over a year ago

Belfast

"The girls underwear.

Seriously wtf.

Cause you wear nice underwear on a night out means your gagging for it.

Underwear is all part of the outfit.

Not a come Shag me statement.

Poor girl.

What dicks.

Again, innocent until proven guilty. "

I was referring to the courts bringing in what underwear she was wearing.

Not the guys on trail.

Hopefully the truth get justice.

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By *kcoupleCouple over a year ago

.....

"The girls underwear.

Seriously wtf.

Cause you wear nice underwear on a night out means your gagging for it.

Underwear is all part of the outfit.

Not a come Shag me statement.

Poor girl.

What dicks. "

This wasnt a case of slut shaming. The point of bringing out her underwear was that she said she was bleeding after but no sign of blood was found on the items of underwear. It didn't matter if the were here her sunday comfies or pulling pants.

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By *al2001Man over a year ago

kildare

"The girls underwear.

Seriously wtf.

Cause you wear nice underwear on a night out means your gagging for it.

Underwear is all part of the outfit.

Not a come Shag me statement.

Poor girl.

What dicks.

There was blood on the inside of her trousers that she wore that night

Be interesting to hear what the witnesses who weren't directly involved have to say later

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By *xpandmyhorizonsMan over a year ago

Co. Antrim

I don’t know if the guys are guilty or not. Either way, they shouldn’t of been named and paraded in front of the media before being found guilty in court. As it stands they are effectively being trialled by the media. Not only that but people are now slating their friends and teammates for attending the court to show support. I’m sure those people know a lot more about what they are like as people than joe bloggs who watches the rugby on tv.

Even if they are found innocent, their careers will effectively be in tatters. The stigma of a sexual allegation whether founded or not is something that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

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By *ordDick1Man over a year ago

Coleraine

Does anyone know the girls name on question?

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By *kcoupleCouple over a year ago

.....

"Does anyone know the girls name on question? "

Its common knowledge online but to be honest its not something anyone should speculate on or share until the case is over one way or the other. It just feeds into the hate directed at one side or the other based on their past.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's pretty much the worst excuse ever.

But I have never just stuck my dick in a girl without talking to her first. If that's what you do when youre d*unk, stop fucking drinking."

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By *ornyandwellhungMan over a year ago

belfast

What a complete waste of resources, what did that case cost?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What a complete waste of resources, what did that case cost?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

By being found not guilty its means no crime was commited !! Should she not be named and shamed like the 4 innocent men whos lives she has ruined by making up the story ?

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By *ornyandwellhungMan over a year ago

belfast

"By being found not guilty its means no crime was commited !! Should she not be named and shamed like the 4 innocent men whos lives she has ruined by making up the story ?"

????????

And charged for wasting time, and sent the legal bills for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By being found not guilty its means no crime was commited !! Should she not be named and shamed like the 4 innocent men whos lives she has ruined by making up the story ?"

Why are you so sure she made it up?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Being found not guilty of a crime usually means u are innocent in my book and if no crime took place she made it up would u say they were innocent if they had of being found guilty ?

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

Being found not guilty means there was insufficient evidence to convict of the charge. It does not mean they are innocent by any means. Look at OJ Simpson he murdered his wife but got away with it. Many innocent people get locked up and many guilty people go free.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So no matter what the verdict the guys are guilty

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/03/18 14:13:50]

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

Doesn’t say that either. Quite possibly she was too d*unk and got in to an act she instantly regretted or simply doesn’t remember. She could have said no after it all started. End of the day an innocent of the charge just means there wasn’t enough evidence to convict of that charge

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The verdict doesn't mean the story is made up, it means they believe one story over the other. It's hard to prove something like this when it's all one word vs another. I thought they were guilty but the court doesn't. They should not have been named, nothing can rectify them being named, not even naming the woman. Laws should be put in place to protect anyone from being named until they're found guilty, especially with these trials.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Being found not guilty of a crime usually means u are innocent in my book and if no crime took place she made it up would u say they were innocent if they had of being found guilty ?"

I believe they were found not guilty because there were too many inconsistencies, I would not convict nor should a jury unless they were convinced a crime took place. I found it difficult to be sure

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Being found not guilty means there was insufficient evidence to convict of the charge. It does not mean they are innocent by any means. Look at OJ Simpson he murdered his wife but got away with it. Many innocent people get locked up and many guilty people go free. "

Hear hear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree with u they should not have being named innocent till proven guilty in this country and as somebody said not enough evidence to convict them and the dpp should not have brought the case she had the luxury of not being named

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

Hardly a luxury to not be named. To be named with a case as high profile could mean her being attacked or further victimised

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So its ok to name the rugby players who have being found NOT GUILTY but ok for her not to be it seems the whole case that went on nearly 6 weeks was a total waste of time and money as people on here seems to know better if they are guilty or not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm happy with the verdict and I hope these lads should be able to finally get their lives back. No matter what you or I think (I think they were innocent) the jury has ruled and opinions don't matter. I have followed every bit of transcript from the trial from the beginning and have never been in doubt that they were innocent of the charges, unfortunately their names have been tarred and that label will never disappear... As for the girl if she lied purposely she should be charged (something I don't think we will ever know) but I personally think she did something she regretted and was embarrassed about and once she made first statement it was too late to go back. I'm sure the last few weeks have been horrendous for her aswell as the lads. Hopefully this case will make people aware of the fine line between consent and not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So its ok to name the rugby players who have being found NOT GUILTY but ok for her not to be it seems the whole case that went on nearly 6 weeks was a total waste of time and money as people on here seems to know better if they are guilty or not"

I see the legal team specifically mentioned the so called hateful online comments against the players etc.

As always you will get those who think they know better than the actual judge and jury who sat through all the evidence.

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

The accused is always named and the victims protected. It is this way with any sex related cases

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

innocent of the charges, unfortunately their names have been tarred and that label will never disappear... As for the girl if she lied purposely she should be charged (something I don't think we will ever know) but I personally think she did something she regretted and was embarrassed about and once she made first statement it was too late to go back. I'm sure the last few weeks have been horrendous for her aswell as the lads. Hopefully this case will make people aware of the fine line between consent and not. "

Totally agree much better put than

I have done a lot of ladys have made up their minds from early on that they were guilty if they have sons how would they feel if a lady made a false claim against their son

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm happy with the verdict and I hope these lads should be able to finally get their lives back. No matter what you or I think (I think they were innocent) the jury has ruled and opinions don't matter. I have followed every bit of transcript from the trial from the beginning and have never been in doubt that they were innocent of the charges, unfortunately their names have been tarred and that label will never disappear... As for the girl if she lied purposely she should be charged (something I don't think we will ever know) but I personally think she did something she regretted and was embarrassed about and once she made first statement it was too late to go back. I'm sure the last few weeks have been horrendous for her aswell as the lads. Hopefully this case will make people aware of the fine line between consent and not. "

Well said....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The accused is always named and the victims protected. It is this way with any sex related cases"

She is not the victim anymore according to the law

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The accused is always named and the victims protected. It is this way with any sex related cases

She is not the victim anymore according to the law "

Not in all cases!

If the victim can be identified by naming the accused their name isn't disclosed unless the victim wavers anonymity.

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By *evil_u_knowMan over a year ago

city

"The accused is always named and the victims protected. It is this way with any sex related cases

She is not the victim anymore according to the law "

Yes she is, them not being guilty does not remove her victim status.

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

"The accused is always named and the victims protected. It is this way with any sex related cases

She is not the victim anymore according to the law

Yes she is, them not being guilty does not remove her victim status."

I agree, they were just found not guilty of those charges doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And no I don’t think they are guilty of what was accused but I do believe it went further than she had wanted

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By *evil_u_knowMan over a year ago

city

It's disgusting that you have to fight someone off screaming no, or the person can do whatever they want to you.

But it is the country where homosexuals are evil etc. A lot of backward views up there compared to more civilised countries, which leads me to conclude a lot will celebrate this decision up there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The last time i checked having a threesome is not a crime if so i am guilty .case over i hope to see the 2 guys back in the ulster and irish jersey asap and get on with their lives as innocent men

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The last time i checked having a threesome is not a crime if so i am guilty .case over i hope to see the 2 guys back in the ulster and irish jersey asap and get on with their lives as innocent men "

You are right a 3some is not a crime

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

Threesome is not a crime when it’s consensual. It is a crime to have friends join in when you are with a person and that has not been prior agreed upon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Threesome is not a crime when it’s consensual. It is a crime to have friends join in when you are with a person and that has not been prior agreed upon. "

Well said

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By *eductively_SweetWoman over a year ago

wexford

this is a bebate that no one wins..

its a man world but women rule it..

some cry @#$@ and get away with but the doubt in those lads will never go away their lives will never be the same again nor will their families..

its a sad day for those men & women who have been #@!$÷ and wont come forward becauses of cases like these..

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By *ocko123Man over a year ago

Derry

They should do the lotto.

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By *lippery-when-wet-180Woman over a year ago

South Dub

"this is a bebate that no one wins..

its a man world but women rule it..

some cry @#$@ and get away with but the doubt in those lads will never go away their lives will never be the same again nor will their families..

its a sad day for those men & women who have been #@!$÷ and wont come forward becauses of cases like these..

Exactly

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By *ontbesillywrapyourwillyMan over a year ago

Tipperary

followed this case from week 1 and said they weren't guilty and that's the conclusion. whether the jury is right or wrong lives must continue. hope Jackson and olding can get back in with Ulster

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By *llie and ApplesCouple over a year ago

where ever

[Removed by poster at 28/03/18 15:35:47]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

+100

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it making any men nervous about engaging in unorthodox group sex ?

It’s certainly turning me off it. Everyone needs to be so careful and in control of themselves and 100% certain that everyone actively consents (no room for passive consent or uncertainty). "

+100

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The accused should never be named until proven guilty. Its a mockery of a system that says innocent till proven guilty.

There is no reason for it other than feeding the news machines and the gutter tabloids dig where they shouldn't as well. As soon as their names were mentioned they became guilty until proven innocent. As a result the mud sticks, lives ruined and changed. No matter that they are innocent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Delighted with the outcome,

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By *oxic1998Woman over a year ago

Belfast

"The accused should never be named until proven guilty. Its a mockery of a system that says innocent till proven guilty.

Totally agree......shouldnt have even reached the papers till after the court case. Too many lives have been ruined as you said mud does stick

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Those texts they sent on WhatsApp are disgraceful and embarrassing

cringed for them!

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By *appyPandaMan over a year ago

Kilkenny, but Dublin is more fun

"Those texts they sent on WhatsApp are disgraceful and embarrassing

cringed for them! "

Agreed. Think the language in those messages had me against them to the point that I can't respect them even if they actually are innocent of everything that was accused.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Although the 4 guys walked away today, they were not proven innocent, just the prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty of r&@p/ sexual assault, the onus was always on the prosecution to prove their case, but the reality was, unless one of the 2 lads involved actually stood up in court and admitted that she said No at any stage, or tripped themselves up under cross examination, this was the most likely outcome.

I’m not taking sides on this, the only people who really know what happened are the 3 people on the bed that night, either way there’s no winner or loser in this case, and for the record, the girl involved didn’t cry r@pe, she made a complaint, the psni and the public prosecutor brought the case to court

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Although the 4 guys walked away today, they were not proven innocent, just the prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty of r&@p/ sexual assault, the onus was always on the prosecution to prove their case, but the reality was, unless one of the 2 lads involved actually stood up in court and admitted that she said No at any stage, or tripped themselves up under cross examination, this was the most likely outcome.

In the eyes of the law are u not innocent till proven guilty ??? And they were found not guilty today ??

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By *outh_of_EdenMan over a year ago

fota

"That's pretty much the worst excuse ever.

But I have never just stuck my dick in a girl without talking to her first. If that's what you do when youre d*unk, stop fucking drinking."
100% agree with you!

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By *outh_of_EdenMan over a year ago

fota

"I think they are guilty. She had bruises and a cut and was bawling crying as the fourth guy rushed her into a taxi. He also texted her asking if she was OK etc... I do think she enjoyed being around celebrities but I do think she's telling the truth too. "
The law require the case to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt...it's a minefield of a case..no doubt we all have our own opinions

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By *outh_of_EdenMan over a year ago

fota

I dunno, there’s plenty of holes in her story too. Like, how do you ‘forget’ another woman coming into the room?

Either way, I hope the actual truth is discovered. "
Lets see if there is a civil case..different level of proof...

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By *outh_of_EdenMan over a year ago

fota

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They are innocent, everyone is innocent unless proven guilty. The court could not prove their guilt.

As you said only the people in question know what happened.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My personal feeling is if it was anybody else that wasn’t in the public eye, that there wouldn’t be any case brought to court.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My personal feeling is if it was anybody else that wasn’t in the public eye, that there wouldn’t be any case brought to court. "

It may have been brought to court, but probably not turned into a media circus

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

Having watched some of it, I have a partially educated view. I have not read all the transcripts. Am I right in saying that some of the charges were dropped within the first two weeks and that they then concentrated on the main charges? I think that was where doubt entered my mind.

Then the girl who entered the room because she was looking for her friend. She said she heard moans but not stressed/painful ones. When she entered the room, she believed she saw a threesome but all consensual, however brief her view was. Apparently she was there long enough for PJ to ask if she fancied joining. Surely that was an opportunity to alert her by the victim, if she had not consented?

Two times PJ went up to his room and the victim followed him up. On the first occasion, he left the room without locking her in, free to walk out of the room and indeed out of the house,of her own accord.

Yes, I fully agree that no means no but it does not look to me like PJ was an "aggressor", or whatever the relevant term is, in the situation. He was comfortable with others entering the room, both male/female. Do you think that's going to be the case if a perpetrator does not have another consenting adult present? I don't.

I agree with the comments above, regarding 12 peers listened/saw/watched all the evidence and acquitted all four men of all charges. To my mind, that says enough.

I also believe that in the Republic, neither parties would have been named, not just the"victim" maintaining anonymity but also the accused, which I believe is a much fairer system. Those guys are going to be followed by this, constantly having it as a sidebar, for the rest of their lives.

As I said above, after a Not Guilty verdict, they should take a case against her or, to be more fair to all that follow, the UK legal system, to force them to keep both parties names confidential.

Apologies for the rant, kinda.

No means no and, for any unfortunate, M/F, caught in that situation, bite/scream/kick/do whatever you can to get away and then go immediately to Gardai/Police/rape crisis helpline. I have no tolerance for abuse of any kind.

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By *ornyDubMan25Man over a year ago

Berlin

Also given the case was unusually long, was very much in the media spotlight and had 4 defendants so as a result had a lot of evidence to be considered by the jury, to have a unanimous verdict either way in such a short time is quite rare to say the least!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is nothing that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt without cctv or recordings. My advice to all people who have been r.ped is not to pursue justice. It's just not worth it. Either have video footage or don't bother. Why put yourself through it?

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"There is nothing that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt without cctv or recordings. My advice to all people who have been r.ped is not to pursue justice. It's just not worth it. Either have video footage or don't bother. Why put yourself through it? "

Much though I don't like to disagree with your good self, I can't help myself.

Many forms of oppression existed (still do in places) because people were afraid to speak out. It was only with a groundswell of opening up, outing the oppressors, creating movements that represented those oppressed, that evidence was brought, opinions changed and, sometimes, the oppressors being brought to justice.

Where offence can be proved, I trust it will be. I believe in our justice system and I believe that the majority of the Gardai are there to uphold that system and defend the rights of anyone who has been abused/accosted/robbed/etc.

As such, my belief is speak out, do it immediately, giving the Gardai/counseling/abuse service the best chance possible of upholding your right to fair hearing/justice.

In the specific case of r@pe, forensic evidence is key, along with anything that can be gathered in relation to prior conversations, etc. The sooner it can be gathered and people questioned, the greater chance of the whole thing being represented correctly. Obviously video evidence would greatly enhance that and all that would be required is a single instance of the injured party saying No to confirm consent had been removed/declined.

I'm a little surprised to see your comment, if I'm honest but everyone has a viewpoint on this and I wouldn't deny anyone theirs.

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By *aid backMan over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

"Those texts they sent on WhatsApp are disgraceful and embarrassing

cringed for them! "

They should be locked up for calling themselves top shaggers

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By *eductively_SweetWoman over a year ago

wexford

there is a flip side.. men have been falsely accused convicted served time for the accuser to admit yrs later they lied.. those women walk away with not even a slap on the wrist..

its women like those that real victims have to thank

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Much though I don't like to disagree with your good self, I can't help myself.

As such, my belief is speak out, do it immediately, giving the Gardai/counseling/abuse service the best chance possible of upholding your right to fair hearing/justice.

I'm a little surprised to see your comment, if I'm honest but everyone has a viewpoint on this and I wouldn't deny anyone theirs.

What you wrote:

Yes, I fully agree that no means no but it does not look to me like PJ was an "aggressor"

What I write:

Don't pursue r.ape convictions on this island, you won't get there.

It's not about looks.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

there is a flip side.. men have been falsely accused convicted served time for the accuser to admit yrs later they lied.. those women walk away with not even a slap on the wrist..

its women like those that real victims have to thank "

Which is exactly the type that should be sued for slander and sue the UK system for unfair treatment of the accused in those cases

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

there is a flip side.. men have been falsely accused convicted served time for the accuser to admit yrs later they lied.. those women walk away with not even a slap on the wrist..

its women like those that real victims have to thank "

What are we talking, numbers wise, percentages wise? This flipside?

If you take a conservative estimate that 80% of r.pe victims don't go to the police. And you're focusing on what?

Again, I advise anyone who has been r.ped to not pursue justice, it won't happen. Contact the r.pe crisis centre for support instead.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

there is a flip side.. men have been falsely accused convicted served time for the accuser to admit yrs later they lied.. those women walk away with not even a slap on the wrist..

its women like those that real victims have to thank

Which is exactly the type that should be sued for slander and sue the UK system for unfair treatment of the accused in those cases"

Sue for slander, I highly hope they do and watch the burden of proof shift. How do you prove you didn't r.pe someone?

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

Much though I don't like to disagree with your good self, I can't help myself.

As such, my belief is speak out, do it immediately, giving the Gardai/counseling/abuse service the best chance possible of upholding your right to fair hearing/justice.

I'm a little surprised to see your comment, if I'm honest but everyone has a viewpoint on this and I wouldn't deny anyone theirs.

What you wrote:

Yes, I fully agree that no means no but it does not look to me like PJ was an "aggressor"

What I write:

Don't pursue r.ape convictions on this island, you won't get there.

It's not about looks."

Sorry Julia.

When I said looks, I should have said my perception of the evidence that I have seen/read.

Obviously none of us have seen everything the jury has and 12 people came to a unanimous decision on multiple counts.

I believe that we should respect that decision. Guilt was not adequately proven. Doubt existed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was 11 jury members, 8 men, 3 women. One was excused and as such his views don't contribute.

You got it wrong did you?

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

there is a flip side.. men have been falsely accused convicted served time for the accuser to admit yrs later they lied.. those women walk away with not even a slap on the wrist..

its women like those that real victims have to thank

Which is exactly the type that should be sued for slander and sue the UK system for unfair treatment of the accused in those cases

Sue for slander, I highly hope they do and watch the burden of proof shift. How do you prove you didn't r.pe someone?"

Good point.

In the current case, by proving that the person concerned appeared to have a concentration on celebrities, by proving that you went to your own room alone, twice and both times were followed by the same person, without coercion, by proving that others entered/joined in the room and that at no point was there any vocalising of lack of consent or resistance of any kind.

I know that holes can be picked in the above.

If I was in his situation, I would go after the legal system for the unfair treatment of men in r@pe cases, where they are not afforded the same anonymity as women.

If they really have conviction and believe that they were falsely accused, then I would sue her for slander.

It's a double edged sword but one I feel that, yes, the shoe would be very much on the other foot if the guy were to try to prove he didn't accost her.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"It was 11 jury members, 8 men, 3 women. One was excused and as such his views don't contribute.

You got it wrong did you?"

That wasn't reported on the Prime Time I saw tonight. I was simply saying what I saw reported on there. They said 12 jurors acquitted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You have in your head what people do when they are r.ped. And you have in your head, the solution: "No means no and, for any unfortunate, M/F, caught in that situation, bite/scream/kick/do whatever you can to get away and then go immediately to Gardai/Police/rape crisis helpline. I have no tolerance for abuse of any kind."

But r.pe doesn't work like that for many people. They freeze. They don't bite. They don't scream. They don't kick. They don't 'do whatever they can to get away' And they certainly don't go to the gardai/police/rape crisis helpline straight away.

I'm happy for you that PJ doesn't look like that type to you. That aggressor type.

I'm pleased you have no tolerance for abuse of any kind.

Have you thought about expanding your perceptions? Of r.pists? Of reactions? Of tolerance?

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

Whilst I agree with you. Why would you bother Ireland north and south have an abysmal record in sexual assault and r??pe convictions. And some shocking sentences. Wasn't there a woman traveling down from court in Dublin on the same train as her r??pist who had been found guilty but given a suspended sentence. He flicked his cigarette at her. His sentence was changed. If she and others like her don't fight for their lives. How will it ever change.

I believe her.

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

"You have in your head what people do when they are r.ped. And you have in your head, the solution: "No means no and, for any unfortunate, M/F, caught in that situation, bite/scream/kick/do whatever you can to get away and then go immediately to Gardai/Police/rape crisis helpline. I have no tolerance for abuse of any kind."

I'm happy for you that PJ doesn't look like that type to you. That aggressor type.

I'm pleased you have no tolerance for abuse of any kind.

Have you thought about expanding your perceptions? Of r.pists? Of reactions? Of tolerance?"

Oh thank you so much. Really getting tired of. I'd bite it off, why didn't she scream etc.

Women freeze, in their head they say this isn't happening, then when it's over they try and block it out.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

I'm happy for you that PJ doesn't look like that type to you. That aggressor type.

I'm pleased you have no tolerance for abuse of any kind.

Have you thought about expanding your perceptions? Of r.pists? Of reactions? Of tolerance?"

Well, I do like to believe that I am an open-minded person and have changed my views on other points, after having met people of that persuasion or those who've been in those situations.

I also believe in a human condition known as Fight or Flight, which some, not all, are able to exercise and have experience of it personally, though not in a similar scenario to what we are discussing above, indeed it would seem trivial in comparison but let's just say it involves rats, one of my ultimate fears.

Yes, I understand that some people can freeze in a given scenario. I also understand that they are terrified of actually vocalising what happened to them. I also believe that when the 80% statistics of unreported cases changes to 80% reported, those people will feel less intimidated to take the proper steps to do what is needed.

It's something that should be screamed from their rooftops and others. Why should there be this stigma? They are not alone. If everyone that has experienced it started reporting it, it makes it that little bit easier for the next poor unfortunate to come out and say they were abused.

I have listened to many abuse survivors from institution/priests in Ireland over the last few years explain that only through the courage of others coming forward and going public, that it gave them the strength to do the same, helping to highlight the issue and see a societal change in attitude.

Is this not the same?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No, it's not the same.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"No, it's not the same.

OK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's something that should be screamed from their rooftops and others. Why should there be this stigma? They are not alone. If everyone that has experienced it started reporting it, it makes it that little bit easier for the next poor unfortunate to come out and say they were abused."

Hey, were your recently r.ped by a bunch of rugby men? Look what happened to the last 'slut' who reported it. Why don't you try it now. It should be that little bit easier for you. You poor unfortunate, come out and tell us about how you were abused.

Gosh, who could resist?

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"No, it's not the same.

OK."

Sorry, I'm not trying to have the last word.

I'm just saying ok, it's not the same as the scenarios I mentioned.

I understand that every situation is different and needs to be related in a different manner.

I certainly would not professional to understand all and sundry and am open to discussion of every situation, with a belief that an abuser, of any kind, should suffer the consequences of that abuse, as determined by the societal system in place.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"No, it's not the same.

OK.

Sorry, I'm not trying to have the last word.

I'm just saying ok, it's not the same as the scenarios I mentioned.

I understand that every situation is different and needs to be related in a different manner.

Profess not professional

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

""It's something that should be screamed from their rooftops and others. Why should there be this stigma? They are not alone. If everyone that has experienced it started reporting it, it makes it that little bit easier for the next poor unfortunate to come out and say they were abused."

Gosh, who could resist?"

Sorry, my terminology could perhaps be better. Poor unfortunate was meant sympathetically, in consoling terms, not derogatory.

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

Gosh, who could resist?"

My thoughts exactly.

Out of one side of their mouths they say she should be charged herself! Lying slut! Why didn't you fight? This was your fault! And out of the other side they want all the horribly traumatized abuse victims to fight the good fight! Stand up for yourself! Spark a change! Remove the stigma!

Doesn't work that way people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You likened r.pe to your fear of rats and then implied victims lacked a flight or fight response. Then you rambled on about your experience of victims of priests?

Then you implied male victims are not afforded the same rights as female victims?

"If I was in his situation, I would go after the legal system for the unfair treatment of men in r@pe cases, where they are not afforded the same anonymity as women."

Men get r.ped too.

You'd go after the legal system? What? How? You're already winning.

You believe these men are innocent because as you say PJ doesn't look like the aggressor type.

I believe her. She was advised not to go to trial by nearest and dearest. She was told there would be no justice. She predicted the outcome before it happened.

And we disagree on who we believe. That's the basis of it. You believe them. Those absolute scumbags who spoke about her in disgusting text messages.

I believe her.

And just to remind you:

If you're promoting changes to women's behaviour to "prevent" r.pe, you're really saying "make sure he r.pes the other girl".

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

Ok, firstly I am a guy. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men, we know it does but is even less reported.

Regardless, i believe that my views and posts have been reasoned, considered and from a non-victim, in the complete sense, though I have had mild abuse experience.

However, I am leaving the debate at this point.

Not saying that I won't return, depending on other future posts, though I believe that I have said enough at this point.

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

"You likened r.pe to your fear of rats and then implied victims lacked a flight or fight response. Then you rambled on about your experience of victims of priests?

Then you implied male victims are not afforded the same rights as female victims?

"If I was in his situation, I would go after the legal system for the unfair treatment of men in r@pe cases, where they are not afforded the same anonymity as women."

Men get r.ped too.

You'd go after the legal system? What? How? You're already winning.

You believe these men are innocent because as you say PJ doesn't look like the aggressor type.

I believe her. She was advised not to go to trial by nearest and dearest. She was told there would be no justice. She predicted the outcome before it happened.

And we disagree on who we believe. That's the basis of it. You believe them. Those absolute scumbags who spoke about her in disgusting text messages.

I believe her.

And just to remind you:

If you're promoting changes to women's behaviour to "prevent" r.pe, you're really saying "make sure he r.pes the other girl".

YAAAAAS!!!

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

[Removed by poster at 29/03/18 01:45:30]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believed the girl but just cause I do doesn't mean it happened. People who believed the guys said bad things about the girl and vice versa. Their texts were bad but not shocking(to me), there was no admittance of the accusation in them (again doesn't mean it didn't happen). Realistically we can just say what we think but we can't really call them scum or her scum. We'll never really know the score. They will and they will only.

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

"Ok, firstly I am a guy. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men, we know it does but is even less reported.

Regardless, i believe that my views and posts have been reasoned, considered and from a non-victim, in the complete sense, though I have had mild abuse experience.

I asked you in pm to say goodnight. Now I'm begging you in public. Log off jd

However, I am leaving the debate at this point.

Not saying that I won't return, depending on other future posts, though I believe that I have said enough at this point."

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

[Removed by poster at 29/03/18 01:52:53]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm going to call them scum after reading their text messages. I can do that and I recommend anyone who thinks those text messages were disgusting, to do that as well. If you speak about anyone like that, you're a scumbag.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What texts? The "any sluts get fucked?"? Or the spit roast texts? They're tame if I'm to be honest, if you look at any group chat of lads in their 20s you'll be see the same. I'm not defending them, I believe the girl but the texts are probably more shocking to older people than people my age unless I've missed a few texts.

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

"I'm going to call them scum after reading their text messages. I can do that and I recommend anyone who thinks those text messages were disgusting, to do that as well. If you speak about anyone like that, you're a scumbag."

There's a fb post going around something like... just because they wear a blazer and chinos doesn't mean they're gentlemen....The 4 certainly aren't

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

"What texts? The "any sluts get fucked?"? Or the spit roast texts? They're tame if I'm to be honest, if you look at any group chat of lads in their 20s you'll be see the same. I'm not defending them, I believe the girl but the texts are probably more shocking to older people than people my age unless I've missed a few texts. "

I feel the messages are disgusting because they r@ped her and at the exact times they are bragging about it in their messages, in her messages she is trying to sort out medical attention and already knows no one will hold the scumbags accountable.

And she was right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They're not tame to me. I'm not sure why they're not shocking to other people. Is this what we've come to? On this tiny island of ours? We humiliate people and encourage other to partake in it? This is normal for 20-somethings?

It makes me so fucking sad.

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"You likened r.pe to your fear of rats and then implied victims lacked a flight or fight response. Then you rambled on about your experience of victims of priests?

Then you implied male victims are not afforded the same rights as female victims?

"If I was in his situation, I would go after the legal system for the unfair treatment of men in r@pe cases, where they are not afforded the same anonymity as women."

Men get r.ped too.

You'd go after the legal system? What? How? You're already winning.

You believe these men are innocent because as you say PJ doesn't look like the aggressor type.

I believe her. She was advised not to go to trial by nearest and dearest. She was told there would be no justice. She predicted the outcome before it happened.

And we disagree on who we believe. That's the basis of it. You believe them. Those absolute scumbags who spoke about her in disgusting text messages.

I believe her.

And just to remind you:

If you're promoting changes to women's behaviour to "prevent" r.pe, you're really saying "make sure he r.pes the other girl".

First, I don't believe that at any point, I singled out parts of your conversation, or selectively quote them and misinterpret them.

You seem to be doing this.

Second, I did not liken r@pe to my fear of rats. I was simply referring to the Flight or Fight human condition.

Third, I never specifically mentioned my experience of priests.

Fourth, I never said men are not afforded the same rights, merely said it was something that was even less reported.

Please do read what I write and, if I have left any ambiguity, or misplaced comma, which muddies the water in the understanding of the post, feel free to contact me directly for clarification.

I am not "having a pop" at any individual poster, just providing clarification on my posts.

Lastly, my proposed change in women's behaviour, to report abuse every time, was in no way meant to say Don't do it to me, as I'll report you, so go pick on another! Come on!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe they did it but taking my beliefs away and looking at the text I do see theyre not gentlemanly but at the risk of a few guys telling me it's not true most men speak like that amongst men. I mean from the any sluts get fucked or spit roasting side. It's not nice I agree but I've been in alot of male group chats, played sports, work in a male environment etc... And that's how the vast majority of men speak amongst men. Not all of course there's exceptions, I'm not an exception unfortunately. I wouldn't call them scum from the texts if was to take my personal beliefs on the matter out of it and I am because my personal belief and what actually happened might not match up. We'll never know unfortunately but I did believe the girl.

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By *eanontiWoman over a year ago

Limerick

"I believe they did it but taking my beliefs away and looking at the text I do see theyre not gentlemanly but at the risk of a few guys telling me it's not true most men speak like that amongst men. I mean from the any sluts get fucked or spit roasting side. It's not nice I agree but I've been in alot of male group chats, played sports, work in a male environment etc... And that's how the vast majority of men speak amongst men. Not all of course there's exceptions, I'm not an exception unfortunately. I wouldn't call them scum from the texts if was to take my personal beliefs on the matter out of it and I am because my personal belief and what actually happened might not match up. We'll never know unfortunately but I did believe the girl. "

You said did??

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By *heislanderMan over a year ago

cheshunt

There's a fb post going around something like... just because they wear a blazer and chinos doesn't mean they're gentlemen....The 4 certainly aren't"

Of course they aren’t, but what if both parties were d*unk, I’m not taking any side, we’ve all been d*unk, if they weren’t rugby players ????

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

I understand what you are saying. If it was consensual perhaps some people wouldn't be as disgusted. But what I think people find most disturbing is that while they are texting back and forth about being legends and spit roasting she is saying, I was r@ped. I was r@ped by more than one person. I am bruised. I am internally injured. I am bleeding. They will get away with it.

It is the contrast of the two reactions to the r@pe that is absolutely sickening.

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

There's a fb post going around something like... just because they wear a blazer and chinos doesn't mean they're gentlemen....The 4 certainly aren't

Of course they aren’t, but what if both parties were d*unk, I’m not taking any side, we’ve all been d*unk, if they weren’t rugby players ????"

If they weren't rugby players they'd probably be in jail

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By *heislanderMan over a year ago

cheshunt

There's a fb post going around something like... just because they wear a blazer and chinos doesn't mean they're gentlemen....The 4 certainly aren't

Judge and Jury all in one, I haven’t followed the case closely enough but please tell me, is this a miscarriage of justice ?

Of course they aren’t, but what if both parties were d*unk, I’m not taking any side, we’ve all been d*unk, if they weren’t rugby players ????

If they weren't rugby players they'd probably be in jail

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps if they weren't farmers, perhaps if she was a stripper, perhaps if it was a toga party.

Doesn't matter!

A judge and jury dealt with it.

This is the system we have. If you don't believe in it, challenge it.

I'd firstly advise caution and research on why it's set up as it is and see what the alternatives in other countries have resulted in.

Not saying any are worse or better, though I would mention how ex bankers in the UK and US are currently in jail, so might suggest some work better than others.

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By *heislanderMan over a year ago

cheshunt

"Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps if they weren't farmers, perhaps if she was a stripper, perhaps if it was a toga party.

Doesn't matter!

A judge and jury dealt with it.

This is the system we have. If you don't believe in it, challenge it.

I'd firstly advise caution and research on why it's set up as it is and see what the alternatives in other countries have resulted in.

Exactly, I’m not trying to say any side is right or wrong, as you said a judge and jury dealt with it, that is the judicial system.

Not saying any are worse or better, though I would mention how ex bankers in the UK and US are currently in jail, so might suggest some work better than others."

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By *ohndunboyneMan over a year ago

Dunboyne & Dublin

"Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

Perhaps if they weren't farmers, perhaps if she was a stripper, perhaps if it was a toga party.

Doesn't matter!

A judge and jury dealt with it.

This is the system we have. If you don't believe in it, challenge it.

I'd firstly advise caution and research on why it's set up as it is and see what the alternatives in other countries have resulted in.

Exactly, I’m not trying to say any side is right or wrong, as you said a judge and jury dealt with it, that is the judicial system.

Not saying any are worse or better, though I would mention how ex bankers in the UK and US are currently in jail, so might suggest some work better than others."

Brilliant! I look forward to your next post

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've spent a lot of my life around men as "one of the lads" and this is exactly how many men speak when they think it doesn't need to be censored - the terms used may change a little with fashion but the theme is the same. I think a lot of women are extremely naive when it comes to men.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Unpleasant sexual braggadocio doesn't reflect well on the men involved, especially when reading the text in the cold light of day, but it doesn't mean the sex was non-consensual. Nobody knows what happened that night but the people involved.

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By *eductively_SweetWoman over a year ago

wexford

[Removed by poster at 29/03/18 08:14:19]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The judicial system requires a higher standard of proof than gut instincts and rightly so.

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By *eductively_SweetWoman over a year ago

wexford

totally agree texts can also be misconstrued we are all guilty of that..ppl hanging on the words of text messages.. i can send a text now saying something/anything happened to me doesnt mean it did...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its been said the girl tried to accuse a football player too but got paid off . So if that is true what do ppl think ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its been said the girl tried to accuse a football player too but got paid off . So if that is true what do ppl think ?"

I think endless unsupported speculation does nobody any favours. The case is done with, nobody came out of it unscathed. Unless the woman takes a civil case which requires a lower burden of proof, it's over with for the rest of us.

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

"Its been said the girl tried to accuse a football player too but got paid off . So if that is true what do ppl think ?"

It wouldn't surprise me. Lots of sexual abusers involved in sports. They feel entitled. Many, many well documented cases both across Europe and the United States. It's nothing new. Why couldn't it have happened to her twice?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its been said the girl tried to accuse a football player too but got paid off . So if that is true what do ppl think ?

Sexual abusers are universal, its the spotlight of celebrity that draws attention to certain professions such as sports, politicians, and the movie industry etc, oh and the church of course

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By *09309309Woman over a year ago

Dublin

"Its been said the girl tried to accuse a football player too but got paid off . So if that is true what do ppl think ?

Sexual abusers are universal, its the spotlight of celebrity that draws attention to certain professions such as sports, politicians, and the movie industry etc, oh and the church of course

Yep, you're right. The sports world has not cornered the market on entitled scumbags. Not yet.

But she specifically asked about what I would think if it was true about the footballer. So, that's why I answered regarding abuse in sports.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It makes me so fucking sad. "

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

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By *oxic1998Woman over a year ago

Belfast

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light. "

It is the norm im afraid......i work with 14-25 year olds and you would be shocked at what is said in texts after a night out. The girls are just as bad. Its not just a man thing, its a generation thing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

There's a big difference between 14 year olds and 24 year olds. They're grown men and still talking like that

just cause it's a generation thing doesn't make it any less disgraceful. Male bravado maybe but still awful

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

It is the norm im afraid......i work with 14-25 year olds and you would be shocked at what is said in texts after a night out.o The girls are just as bad. Its not just a man thing, its a generation thing

I don't think it's entirely a generational thing, what was formerly tossed around as verbal banter is now in writing where context is lost and everything looks much starker. I also think porn plays it's part in the objectification of others, and virtually every child has access to porn now, let's not kid ourselves, so these attitudes are learned very early.

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By *oo32Man over a year ago

tipperary

Trial by social media....judge and jury dealt with it...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

There's a big difference between 14 year olds and 24 year olds. They're grown men and still talking like that

just cause it's a generation thing doesn't make it any less disgraceful. Male bravado maybe but still awful "

There are men decades older who talk like that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Trial by social media....judge and jury dealt with it..."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is definitely not a generation thing. Men have unconscious automatic filters when women are around. Nearly every man I've worked with, managers, supervisors etc... All say similar things to what's in the texts. There's just no paper trail to it. Younger guys are more likely to say that stuff and write that stuff in group chats like I have and all my male friends have. I've said this to women before that a man around a man is a different man to the one around them. It doesn't make them a bad person. Most of the time its to be controversial funny. If half the stuff I've said in texts came out I'd look extremely unpleasant as would most my friends but if you asked about me and my friends you'd be told that they're good people.

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By *oo32Man over a year ago

tipperary

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

There's a big difference between 14 year olds and 24 year olds. They're grown men and still talking like that

just cause it's a generation thing doesn't make it any less disgraceful. Male bravado maybe but still awful

There are men decades older who talk like that

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By *oxic1998Woman over a year ago

Belfast

It makes me so fucking sad.

I don't think they're tame. Whether it means she was telling the truth I'm not sure but it shows their total lack of respect for women. Shows them in a very bad light.

You could be right.

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