FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > Repeal the 8th Amendment.
Repeal the 8th Amendment.
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"They need to draught in the same legislation in the Uk to make it effective due to our proximity to the UK so this has all been a waste of time and money in Republic of Ireland as it is too easy to travel to England and have an abortion." So in the eyes of the British public they should take a step back in time to be on the same page as Ireland? | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it " People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now! | |||
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"So what happens next?" They've voted to repeal it, not replace it, whenever there is any sort of physical or mental health risk to the mother. That's what's being offered in the referendum. I think. | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it " But the 8th amendment has always been a source of discrimination to women, International human rights organisations have repeatedly taken Ireland to task for violating women's right to bodily integrity, and self determination. | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it But the 8th amendment has always been a source of discrimination to women, International human rights organisations have repeatedly taken Ireland to task for violating women's right to bodily integrity, and self determination." This! | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best." Bollocks. The committee, which I was initially sceptical of, just like the citizens assembly came to realise the barbarism of the 8th amendment through being presented the facts. Abortions happen everyday in Ireland, they need to be safe and the stigma erased. And as was pointed out already, people who can't get pregnant shouldn't be able to dictate what those who can do with their bodies. | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best." Pretty much all of what you have jyst said demotion driven and based on little or no fact. Having been in a position where a team of doctors almost cost us the life of a partner and child in Ireland's top hospital and to then listen to comments like yours...well I thank imaginary god that the debate was heard and held by those international experts with more knowledge than you. We have followed this closely for personal reasons and to be honest you just seem painfully uniformed. | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best." Your whole comment reeks of trolling for the sake of it, but here: "Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk." The terms are pro- and anti-choice, for a start. Can you show me some sources for your claims about mocking? There was clearly a balanced committee with people for and against, as the voting results show. "They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one." I didn't realise doctors were supposed to predict the future as part of their jobs. Did you know that when safe abortion is introduced into a society, crime rates go down? I'm sure lives are saved in there somewhere. "They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die." I'm sure there are loads of parents who would welcome a baby with Down Syndrome, and equally loads who wouldn't be able to cope. They shouldn't be judged either way. You're acting like babies with Down Syndrome are going to be forcefully aborted despite the wishes of the parents. "That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold." There's no real definition of life and no-one can agree when life actually begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive, and definitely in a parasitic relationship with the feotus. The rest of your comment sounds like you wrote it while wearing a tinfoil hat (the UK and the US are jealous of our fertility rates? Really?). I''m sure Ireland is a great country to be in if you WANT to be pregnant. It's one of the worst to be in if you find yourself pregnant and you don't want to go through with it. You've got a right to go and vote no in the referendum if you want. | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best. Your whole comment reeks of trolling for the sake of it, but here: "Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk." The terms are pro- and anti-choice, for a start. Can you show me some sources for your claims about mocking? There was clearly a balanced committee with people for and against, as the voting results show. "They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one." I didn't realise doctors were supposed to predict the future as part of their jobs. Did you know that when safe abortion is introduced into a society, crime rates go down? I'm sure lives are saved in there somewhere. "They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die." I'm sure there are loads of parents who would welcome a baby with Down Syndrome, and equally loads who wouldn't be able to cope. They shouldn't be judged either way. You're acting like babies with Down Syndrome are going to be forcefully aborted despite the wishes of the parents. "That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold." There's no real definition of life and no-one can agree when life actually begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive, and definitely in a parasitic relationship with the feotus. The rest of your comment sounds like you wrote it while wearing a tinfoil hat (the UK and the US are jealous of our fertility rates? Really?). I''m sure Ireland is a great country to be in if you WANT to be pregnant. It's one of the worst to be in if you find yourself pregnant and you don't want to go through with it. You've got a right to go and vote no in the referendum if you want. " A1 | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...?" Yup. Because it's as simple as that  | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...?" Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Yup. Because it's as simple as that "Em - yes, it is. Baby involuntarily dies or it doesn’t. | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born " It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog?" It's a fetus | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus " Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...? | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...?" The terminology doesn't matter its still not a baby. If a woman's body attacks the fetus because of differing blood types should she be done for manslaughter? No. It's simple women should have a choice if she wants to be pregnant or not. | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best. Your whole comment reeks of trolling for the sake of it, but here: "Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk." The terms are pro- and anti-choice, for a start. Can you show me some sources for your claims about mocking? There was clearly a balanced committee with people for and against, as the voting results show. "They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one." I didn't realise doctors were supposed to predict the future as part of their jobs. Did you know that when safe abortion is introduced into a society, crime rates go down? I'm sure lives are saved in there somewhere. "They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die." I'm sure there are loads of parents who would welcome a baby with Down Syndrome, and equally loads who wouldn't be able to cope. They shouldn't be judged either way. You're acting like babies with Down Syndrome are going to be forcefully aborted despite the wishes of the parents. "That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold." There's no real definition of life and no-one can agree when life actually begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive, and definitely in a parasitic relationship with the feotus. The rest of your comment sounds like you wrote it while wearing a tinfoil hat (the UK and the US are jealous of our fertility rates? Really?). I''m sure Ireland is a great country to be in if you WANT to be pregnant. It's one of the worst to be in if you find yourself pregnant and you don't want to go through with it. You've got a right to go and vote no in the referendum if you want. " Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...? The terminology doesn't matter its still not a baby. If a woman's body attacks the fetus because of differing blood types should she be done for manslaughter? No. It's simple women should have a choice if she wants to be pregnant or not. " Yes - it’s called contraception. I think the use of the term “baby” may be somewhat limited on your definition, so I’ll stick to the term “human life”. So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see. | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...? The terminology doesn't matter its still not a baby. If a woman's body attacks the fetus because of differing blood types should she be done for manslaughter? No. It's simple women should have a choice if she wants to be pregnant or not. Yes - it’s called contraception. I think the use of the term “baby” may be somewhat limited on your definition, so I’ll stick to the term “human life”. So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see." Thats a very high tower your on careful the fall might hurt. There's a wise saying walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you judge. You've the right to your opinion but don't judge another like that for choices they made. You don't know anyone's situation. | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...? The terminology doesn't matter its still not a baby. If a woman's body attacks the fetus because of differing blood types should she be done for manslaughter? No. It's simple women should have a choice if she wants to be pregnant or not. Yes - it’s called contraception. I think the use of the term “baby” may be somewhat limited on your definition, so I’ll stick to the term “human life”. So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see." First of all I have to say it's a pity that large parts of your replies are juvenile stabs at basic questions. When we have the chance to reply as adults we should grasp it with both hands on such a serious topic. Trolling is very unbecoming. Can you answer when you believe a fetus to be sentient and conscious ?. Do you have the same opinin of an adult wishing to end his or her life when there is no hope in the case of life ending diseases. When they do have a voice should they still be stopped | |||
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" Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. " I've fortunately never been in the position where I wanted or needed one, I can't even imagine What it must be like. Here's hoping the referendum works  x | |||
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" Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. I've fortunately never been in the position where I wanted or needed one, I can't even imagine What it must be like. Here's hoping the referendum works x"Yes here's hoping x | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born It’s not a baby. Seriously? What is it - a frog? It's a fetus Now we’re getting somewhere. And is a foetus a human life...? The terminology doesn't matter its still not a baby. If a woman's body attacks the fetus because of differing blood types should she be done for manslaughter? No. It's simple women should have a choice if she wants to be pregnant or not. Yes - it’s called contraception. I think the use of the term “baby” may be somewhat limited on your definition, so I’ll stick to the term “human life”. So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see." Absolutely appalled at such a statement! You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. Mattie Mc Grath was a blundering baffooon earlier today with his comments but yours far outweigh his! | |||
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". Trolling is very unbecoming. Can you answer when you believe a fetus to be sentient and conscious ?. Do you have the same opinin of an adult wishing to end his or her life when there is no hope in the case of life ending diseases. When they do have a voice should they still be stopped " What defines life, or a human life? Do we stop at sentient and conscious? And how does anyone know when that begins or truly ends? The only factual thing we know is that there is an intelligence which causes a sperm to seek out an egg and for the egg to receive it, combine with it and create that new human life. That wonderful life. That precious thing that everyone on here had the gift of. And so the point you make of trying to tie down when it’s safe and easier on the conscience to murder that fledgling human life just because we “believe” it to not yet to be a “full human” is not understood by anyone yet to my knowledge - not even the medical profession. How do we measure if someone is a fully functioning human - just because they are born? Really? And regarding a person with a “life ending disease”. How do we actually know their life will end due to the disease? In all likelihood it will, but we simply cannot say for certain and until the person is actually dead, there is always hope. Life is too precious to terminate just because we are unhappy about how it came about or indeed because we believe it will end (but don’t know for sure). | |||
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" Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. I've fortunately never been in the position where I wanted or needed one, I can't even imagine What it must be like. Here's hoping the referendum works x"I travelled to Holland a few years ago to terminate my pregnancy, I have two beautiful kids, and both by C-sections, this decision was not taken lightly and it was a hard time, but I hope woman in the position I was in have the choice and support I found in the Netherlands, Ireland is going forward not backwards. | |||
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" Absolutely appalled at such a statement! You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. Mattie Mc Grath was a blundering baffooon earlier today with his comments but yours far outweigh his! "Of course there are tragic, terrible and horrific circumstances that lead women to consider abortion. In those circumstances, you’re saying punish the innocent unborn human life as well for something it has no part in by murdering it? Does that not seem extreme to you? And are we really saying that the lions share of abortions are due to this type of tragic circumstance or due to inconvenience..? | |||
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" Yes - it’s called contraception. I think the use of the term “baby” may be somewhat limited on your definition, so I’ll stick to the term “human life”. So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see." For someone who claims to be on the side of "science" and the "facts" and bemoans other people's arguments because they're "emotional", you sure do like to steep your comments in rhetoric and appeals to emotion. | |||
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". Trolling is very unbecoming. Can you answer when you believe a fetus to be sentient and conscious ?. Do you have the same opinin of an adult wishing to end his or her life when there is no hope in the case of life ending diseases. When they do have a voice should they still be stopped What defines life, or a human life? Do we stop at sentient and conscious? And how does anyone know when that begins or truly ends? The only factual thing we know is that there is an intelligence which causes a sperm to seek out an egg and for the egg to receive it, combine with it and create that new human life. That wonderful life. That precious thing that everyone on here had the gift of. And so the point you make of trying to tie down when it’s safe and easier on the conscience to murder that fledgling human life just because we “believe” it to not yet to be a “full human” is not understood by anyone yet to my knowledge - not even the medical profession. How do we measure if someone is a fully functioning human - just because they are born? Really? And regarding a person with a “life ending disease”. How do we actually know their life will end due to the disease? In all likelihood it will, but we simply cannot say for certain and until the person is actually dead, there is always hope. Life is too precious to terminate just because we are unhappy about how it came about or indeed because we believe it will end (but don’t know for sure)." I said this above and I'll say it again. There is no agreed upon definition of life. No one knows when life begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive and in a parasitic relationship with that foetus. If they want to get rid of the foetus, for ANY reason, they should be allowed to do so safely and legally in the country they reside in. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion. You don't want one, fine. Others do. Again, you're free to vote in the referendum, and I'm not going to change your mind here. | |||
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" Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. I've fortunately never been in the position where I wanted or needed one, I can't even imagine What it must be like. Here's hoping the referendum works x
I travelled to Holland a few years ago to terminate my pregnancy, I have two beautiful kids, and both by C-sections, this decision was not taken lightly and it was a hard time, but I hope woman in the position I was in have the choice and support I found in the Netherlands, Ireland is going forward not backwards. "Yes Kasandra it is a country growing up and accepting responsibility for its own citizens. We need to stop ignoring the issue that a huge number of women travel every year. It happens but we need to start supporting these women not ignoring them. It's never an inconvenience or an easy decision for any woman. To suggest otherwise is truly disgusting | |||
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" So the woman should have the ability to terminate human life as it’s an inconvenience for her. I see. " If by "human life" you mean foetus, then yes. Her body, her rules. Shame on anyone who dictates to another person how to live. | |||
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" Absolutely appalled at such a statement! You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. Mattie Mc Grath was a blundering baffooon earlier today with his comments but yours far outweigh his!
Of course there are tragic, terrible and horrific circumstances that lead women to consider abortion.
In those circumstances, you’re saying punish the innocent unborn human life as well for something it has no part in by murdering it? Does that not seem extreme to you?
And are we really saying that the lions share of abortions are due to this type of tragic circumstance or due to inconvenience..?"If a woman is going to die through carrying a baby she should have the right to abort | |||
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" Your comment brought tears to my eyes ...it's everything I want to say and more. To be pregnant and not be able mentally or physicaly to go through it in this country is one of the loneliest, soul destroying positions to be in. Now we will have a referendum and no matter what the result we get to have our say. I've fortunately never been in the position where I wanted or needed one, I can't even imagine What it must be like. Here's hoping the referendum works x
I travelled to Holland a few years ago to terminate my pregnancy, I have two beautiful kids, and both by C-sections, this decision was not taken lightly and it was a hard time, but I hope woman in the position I was in have the choice and support I found in the Netherlands, Ireland is going forward not backwards.
Yes Kasandra it is a country growing up and accepting responsibility for its own citizens. We need to stop ignoring the issue that a huge number of women travel every year. It happens but we need to start supporting these women not ignoring them. It's never an inconvenience or an easy decision for any woman. To suggest otherwise is truly disgusting "Ireland's just been exporting abortion for years. It's going to happen anyway, people should be allowed to do it safely and legally without having to go abroad. Glad it's finally being tackled! | |||
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". I said this above and I'll say it again. There is no agreed upon definition of life. No one knows when life begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive and in a parasitic relationship with that foetus. If they want to get rid of the foetus, for ANY reason, they should be allowed to do so safely and legally in the country they reside in. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion. You don't want one, fine. Others do. Again, you're free to vote in the referendum, and I'm not going to change your mind here. " A “parasitic relationship”...? That’s cold to the point of chilling; nearly inhuman. Yes, we’re certainly at opposite ends of the scale. I will continue to marvel at and support life, not death. | |||
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" A “parasitic relationship”...? That’s cold to the point of chilling; nearly inhuman." parasite 'par?s??t noun 1.an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense. "Yes, we’re certainly at opposite ends of the scale. I will continue to marvel at and support life, not death." No one's advocating for death, mate. Again with the rhetoric and appeals to emotion. Do you self-reflect? | |||
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". I said this above and I'll say it again. There is no agreed upon definition of life. No one knows when life begins. But the person carrying the foetus is definitely alive and in a parasitic relationship with that foetus. If they want to get rid of the foetus, for ANY reason, they should be allowed to do so safely and legally in the country they reside in. No one is forcing anyone to have an abortion. You don't want one, fine. Others do. Again, you're free to vote in the referendum, and I'm not going to change your mind here. A “parasitic relationship”...? That’s cold to the point of chilling; nearly inhuman. Yes, we’re certainly at opposite ends of the scale. I will continue to marvel at and support life, not death." How else do you describe it when one organism is supporting another and getting nothing in return? It's the definition of a parasitic relationship. You want inhuman, read up about the Magdalene laundries and the orphanages kids were banished to. A wonderful alternative to safe and legal abortion, I'm sure you'll agree | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now!" Maybe I’m misreading your comment but when you say if someone doesn’t have a uterus their opinion is not valid, are you saying men’s opinions on this subject don’t matter? I’m 100 per cent pro choice by the way and I hope we’re finally dealing with this issue in a grown up way. | |||
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" Absolutely appalled at such a statement! You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. Mattie Mc Grath was a blundering baffooon earlier today with his comments but yours far outweigh his!
Of course there are tragic, terrible and horrific circumstances that lead women to consider abortion.
In those circumstances, you’re saying punish the innocent unborn human life as well for something it has no part in by murdering it? Does that not seem extreme to you?
And are we really saying that the lions share of abortions are due to this type of tragic circumstance or due to inconvenience..?"No! What im saying is..its a womans body to do as she sees fit! I promise you, women dont abort embryos/foetus/ baby,( whatever terminology youd like to give it) on a whim!They have their own valid personal reasons for choosing that option! And thats what abortion is...an option. And by the way, science calls human life an embryo until at least 9 weeks...after that its a foetus until 38 weeks and not clasified as a baby until its born. You need to remember that for whatever reasons women choose to abort, its not forgotten. It lives with the woman for the rest of her life so dont assume we abort willy nilly without a care in the world.i Its quite the opposite mentally. | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now! Maybe I’m misreading your comment but when you say if someone doesn’t have a uterus their opinion is not valid, are you saying men’s opinions on this subject don’t matter? I’m 100 per cent pro choice by the way and I hope we’re finally dealing with this issue in a grown up way. " Hello! I'm not saying men's opinions don't matter. I'm saying if you don't have a uterus, the issue doesn't affect you as much. You're never going to be in the position where you'll want or need an abortion carried out on you. Your partner might, granted, but not you specifically. | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now! Maybe I’m misreading your comment but when you say if someone doesn’t have a uterus their opinion is not valid, are you saying men’s opinions on this subject don’t matter? I’m 100 per cent pro choice by the way and I hope we’re finally dealing with this issue in a grown up way. Hello! I'm not saying men's opinions don't matter. I'm saying if you don't have a uterus, the issue doesn't affect you as much. You're never going to be in the position where you'll want or need an abortion carried out on you. Your partner might, granted, but not you specifically." Fair enough, I presumed that’s what you meant but wasn’t sure! I have very strong opinions on this, as many men do, and would hate to just be dismissed because I’m not female. Anyway, today is hopefully the beginning of the end of all this nonsense and women will finally be allowed to make their own decisions and not have them made for them. | |||
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". Trolling is very unbecoming. Can you answer when you believe a fetus to be sentient and conscious ?. Do you have the same opinin of an adult wishing to end his or her life when there is no hope in the case of life ending diseases. When they do have a voice should they still be stopped What defines life, or a human life? Do we stop at sentient and conscious? And how does anyone know when that begins or truly ends? The only factual thing we know is that there is an intelligence which causes a sperm to seek out an egg and for the egg to receive it, combine with it and create that new human life. That wonderful life. That precious thing that everyone on here had the gift of. And so the point you make of trying to tie down when it’s safe and easier on the conscience to murder that fledgling human life just because we “believe” it to not yet to be a “full human” is not understood by anyone yet to my knowledge - not even the medical profession. How do we measure if someone is a fully functioning human - just because they are born? Really? And regarding a person with a “life ending disease”. How do we actually know their life will end due to the disease? In all likelihood it will, but we simply cannot say for certain and until the person is actually dead, there is always hope. Life is too precious to terminate just because we are unhappy about how it came about or indeed because we believe it will end (but don’t know for sure)." https://thebrainbank.scienceblog.com/2012/12/04/what-can-science-add-to-the-abortion-debate/ There are a lot of well respected scientific views in here which will answer most of the questions you answer with "How do we know" if you don't do the research and state opinion rather than fact it doesn't ad to the debate or validate a single point you have made. Just humour me and read even half of that link. | |||
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"I've watched this thread with suspicion from when it was posted .. swearing I won't comment ... I did. As we all decide who's right, who's wrong, who's got the moral majority can we remember one thing... tonight there's a girl and she could be your family that has to make this choice. She'll have to make that phone call, she'll have to book those flights. If she's lucky she'll have support but most likely she'll go alone. She'll go though the longest 24 hrs of her life and then in pain, more then you can imagine she'll make her way back home. The next day she'll say she's a tummy bug and will stay home but then life must go on. What no one will ever know is how much pain she's in. This is never an easy fix "contraception" , getting rid of an inconvenience. This girl was a grown up and made a choice. .. a choice every woman in this country should have. If they continue their pregnancies support them .. 3000 children homeless at the moment I believe.. . If they terminate, whether or not you support that choice the woman needs to be supported and looked after here in Ireland where she is a citizen and has rights too. " Youre 100% right Sally .Abortion/termination is not contraception, or extreme contraception . Dealing with an unwanted pregnancy is more than likely a life changing event for the pregnant woman . The more kindness and support she gets from loved ones , regardless of her choice ,the better the outcome for the woman concerned . Harry | |||
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"Shame, they didn't even have a balanced debate and often mocked pro life people who were brought in to talk. They couldn't even get one doctor to go on record to say one single life would be saved with abortion, not one. They skirted around the issue of people with downsyndrome etc being aborted as nonsense, but played off the emotions of pro life people by saying a mother would be spared trauma when her baby is going to die. That to allow an abortion we have to ignore science and say that a fetus is not alive, which allows fetus to become property to be bought and sold. It's all emotion driven with little facts. The facts clearly state Ireland is one of the best, safest countries in the world to get pregnant, and has some of the best specialists in the world to deal with difficult pregnancies, pregnancies that other countries like the UK would just abort, Ireland has successfully delivered. But I guess that rubs the UK and America the wrong way, that we have a growing population and high fertility and theirs are declining. That we care for a life the moment a life is formed and they dont. Ireland again copying the worst ideas from around the world instead of the best." "The moment a life is formed" - so you're against the morning after pill as well then? | |||
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"There's a fundamental difference between the potential for life and actual life. " This is the difference summed up perfectly. I have read this thread with interest as the topic of abortion is such a difficult one in that it is embroiled with emotion. I am pro choice. I had a hysterectomy so have no uterus but still have a voice and opinion as do men and think they should have a voice here if it's an informed opinion and factual. The fact that a man can not become pregnant does not mean that they should have no say here. I have daughter's and a grand daughter, sister's, niece's etc... I want this choice for them while also wishing that they never find themselves in that position. But if they do, I want them to have the choice, have local access and local support( which is of huge importance). As mentioned by a few, it's not a choice entered into lightly and can have ripple effects for year's so definitly not used as a method of contraception as suggested! As a responsible nation we all need to think beyond ingrained doctrine, out dated arguments and uninformed belief's...think of those facing a difficult enough decision and support them locally through it. Madame B | |||
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While i understand theres different points of view about abortion, the actual issue was about a womans right to choose!!!
Lads!some of you will never know the trauma or sadness involved when a woman decides to abort, so please! have a heart and try to think about being in the womans shoes for a change.
I agree with the couple above in being open minded folk to swinging but yet blind to a womans right to choose.Feeling sad yet again
Isserley Jones.. your comments were perfection and id have you on my debate team anyday
Kassandra..love and hugs to you my darling, i know it wasnt easy and youre so brave for telling your story. Xx  | |||
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"There's a fundamental difference between the potential for life and actual life. This is the difference summed up perfectly. I have read this thread with interest as the topic of abortion is such a difficult one in that it is embroiled with emotion. I am pro choice. I had a hysterectomy so have no uterus but still have a voice and opinion as do men and think they should have a voice here if it's an informed opinion and factual. The fact that a man can not become pregnant does not mean that they should have no say here. I have daughter's and a grand daughter, sister's, niece's etc... I want this choice for them while also wishing that they never find themselves in that position. But if they do, I want them to have the choice, have local access and local support( which is of huge importance). As mentioned by a few, it's not a choice entered into lightly and can have ripple effects for year's so definitly not used as a method of contraception as suggested! As a responsible nation we all need to think beyond ingrained doctrine, out dated arguments and uninformed belief's...think of those facing a difficult enough decision and support them locally through it. Madame B" Well said Madame B | |||
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"Threads on this topic never fails to boil my blood but I'm delighted to say that most here seem to be of sound mind. I'm pro-choice, I think abortion should be brought in and regulated. In the event there's a threat to the mother's life, it's a no-brainer. Victims of R@pe or inc3st have the choice. Pro-lifers would have you believe it's being forced on these people. I'd rather not see abortions happen for socio-economic reasons, adoption seems like a better option. More than anything, I'd like to see women, girls have the right to choose for themselves." Do you know how difficult it is to put a baby up for adoption in this country? | |||
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"So I belive that there needs to be change on this. I do believe that abortion should be legal in ireland. But is abortion on demand the answer? And what stage should the woman be told sorry you are pregnant with a healthy baby and your health is not at risk. You have to to go through with this? Week 13? The week of the baby's due date? This has become a black and white debate for most. Not many have stopped from what I can see to look at what the limits of abortion should be." A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. | |||
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"So I belive that there needs to be change on this. I do believe that abortion should be legal in ireland. But is abortion on demand the answer? And what stage should the woman be told sorry you are pregnant with a healthy baby and your health is not at risk. You have to to go through with this? Week 13? The week of the baby's due date? This has become a black and white debate for most. Not many have stopped from what I can see to look at what the limits of abortion should be." Where are you getting your information from? A full term babys gestation is 38/40 weeks. Today was for a change in legislation in the constitution! That doesnt mean women can have abortions on a whim! It means that if the womans life is danger, either physically or mentally,then she can choose the right to an abortion within 12 weeks This is done under the guidelines of her GP . | |||
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" A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. " How about the guy that is forced to have baby? Maybe he doesn't want a baby? And for his own moral reason believes that he needs to step up and be a good father and support his baby? I'm not saying that a woman should have be made to have an abortion but once that baby is born that guys life is changed forever just as much as hers. | |||
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" A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. How about the guy that is forced to have baby? Maybe he doesn't want a baby? And for his own moral reason believes that he needs to step up and be a good father and support his baby? I'm not saying that a woman should have be made to have an abortion but once that baby is born that guys life is changed forever just as much as hers." And if he fucks off? She's currently forced to continue the pregnancy and have a child. As I said, men can walk away from pregnancy and the consequences, women can't. | |||
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" A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. How about the guy that is forced to have baby? Maybe he doesn't want a baby? And for his own moral reason believes that he needs to step up and be a good father and support his baby? I'm not saying that a woman should have be made to have an abortion but once that baby is born that guys life is changed forever just as much as hers." Well just like young women make mistakes in getting pregnant and having the child..theres also the issue of young lads being fathers too early in life. So! What do you do? Straight answer please? cos id love to read your point of view? | |||
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"So I belive that there needs to be change on this. I do believe that abortion should be legal in ireland. But is abortion on demand the answer? And what stage should the woman be told sorry you are pregnant with a healthy baby and your health is not at risk. You have to to go through with this? Week 13? The week of the baby's due date? This has become a black and white debate for most. Not many have stopped from what I can see to look at what the limits of abortion should be." It appears you haven't stopped looked at what exactly repealing the 8th means  certainly doesn't mean abortion on demand. | |||
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" A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. How about the guy that is forced to have baby? Maybe he doesn't want a baby? And for his own moral reason believes that he needs to step up and be a good father and support his baby? I'm not saying that a woman should have be made to have an abortion but once that baby is born that guys life is changed forever just as much as hers. Well just like young women make mistakes in getting pregnant and having the child..theres also the issue of young lads being fathers too early in life. So! What do you do? Straight answer please? cos id love to read your point of view? " _ontbesillywrapyourwilly | |||
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"she can choose the right to an abortion within 12 weeks This is done under the guidelines of her GP . " Guidelines are just that a guide. What's your opinion on if things have past week 12? and into week 13? Right to abort or not? I would be be in favour taken that a a proper fetal assent is not carried out if ever till past week twenty. I have have not stated any facts on any bit of information. Just given my opinion | |||
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" A woman should never be forced to have a baby if she does not want to have a baby. End of. How about the guy that is forced to have baby? Maybe he doesn't want a baby? And for his own moral reason believes that he needs to step up and be a good father and support his baby? I'm not saying that a woman should have be made to have an abortion but once that baby is born that guys life is changed forever just as much as hers." No man is ever forced to have a baby. It's easy for most of the ones who don't stay to just turn on their heels and never look back. | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away " It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! "I can't speak really, I don't have kids | |||
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" I have have not stated any facts on any bit of information. Just given my opinion " Do yourself a favour and look into it properly before forming an opinion. | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! I can't speak really, I don't have kids "Then shut up... | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! I can't speak really, I don't have kids
Then shut up... "you don't have to be in the situation to give a view. i just gave an eg of what a man can do very easily | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion " I'm confused by your post. are you saying your grandson was aborted? or something else happened at 23 weeks and you're just comparing that incident with the fact that you can get an abortion in the UK up to 23 weeks? Your post doesn't make much sense. | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion " Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men! | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!" it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now | |||
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" Do yourself a favour and look into it properly before forming an opinion. " Opinions just like mine are generally fluid things. I have not made up my mind on this . I honesty dont know what way i will vote when it comes to it. But debate on this generally only comes form those who are at poler ends of things. The type of people who's opioid could never be changed no mater what the other side says | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now " You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100% | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! I can't speak really, I don't have kids
Then shut up... you don't have to be in the situation to give a view. i just gave an eg of what a man can do very easily "Which is why women contemplate abortion! you dont get it no? | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%" of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. | |||
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"you can pump her full of com, get her pregnant and walk away It actually takes a man to recognise that ok the relationship failed with the mother but hes still a dad and ye both are parents. i love guys that have their kids! Im a divorced mother of 4 and my ex hubby is my best friend. There ye go! I can't speak really, I don't have kids
Then shut up... you don't have to be in the situation to give a view. i just gave an eg of what a man can do very easily
Which is why women contemplate abortion! you dont get it no? "lol I never said anything against women contemplating abortion | |||
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" Do yourself a favour and look into it properly before forming an opinion. Opinions just like mine are generally fluid things. I have not made up my mind on this . I honesty dont know what way i will vote when it comes to it. But debate on this generally only comes form those who are at poler ends of things. The type of people who's opioid could never be changed no mater what the other side says" I go to great effort to state I'm pro choice. It does not necessarily mean I'm pro abortion. Personally, every situation is different, but the choice should be there. It is possible to be pro choice and anti abortion. | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. " Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only""if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive? | |||
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" Do yourself a favour and look into it properly before forming an opinion. Opinions just like mine are generally fluid things. I have not made up my mind on this . I honesty dont know what way i will vote when it comes to it. But debate on this generally only comes form those who are at poler ends of things. The type of people who's opioid could never be changed no mater what the other side says I go to great effort to state I'm pro choice. It does not necessarily mean I'm pro abortion. Personally, every situation is different, but the choice should be there. It is possible to be pro choice and anti abortion. " Id be the same in fairness.. pro choice but anti abortion. I feel like im sitting on the fence with this one. Saddens me all the same | |||
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" Do yourself a favour and look into it properly before forming an opinion. Opinions just like mine are generally fluid things. I have not made up my mind on this . I honesty dont know what way i will vote when it comes to it. But debate on this generally only comes form those who are at poler ends of things. The type of people who's opioid could never be changed no mater what the other side says I go to great effort to state I'm pro choice. It does not necessarily mean I'm pro abortion. Personally, every situation is different, but the choice should be there. It is possible to be pro choice and anti abortion. Id be the same in fairness.. pro choice but anti abortion. I feel like im sitting on the fence with this one. Saddens me all the same "where would you allow abortion and where would you disagree with it? | |||
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"Colour me confused here. A lot of people seem to be debating abortion on demand above. Isn't the change that's being discussed where there is a risk to the mother that termination will be an option? As in the foetal abnormalities scenario? I didn't think that we were changing to the full on termination at the woman's request, at least not yet. Maybe I am wrong but if I'm correct, a lot of the above debate is a moot point. Feel free to correct me as I haven't seen any news today or heard any radio. Just do it nicely please." You are correct. Which is why I suggested the guy above do some research as he thinks it allows for women to abort 'on demand'. | |||
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"I am pro choice and i can understand while some women go for an abortions. While i would prefer if they didn't i would support anyone who fewls the need to go though this. We never know what is going on in that persin life at all" That's the while point.. just because somebody is anti abortion doesn't mean another person should by be allowed choose! This debate honestly boils my blood. If her life is in danger, or.she has bee a victim of an assault etc why not allow her the choice?? Numerous women have died in our hospitals because of this!! | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?"Hold on one minute! Why is it down to a woman to be on contraceptives??? Wish to fuck there was a male pill ! Id make sure my lads were taking it instead of making sure they were carrying condoms. Youre old school willywrapper! and a young man too to assume that women should be on contraceptives and you dont protect yourself? Why is it down to women then? Answer me and enlighten ne cos i for one am at a loss. | |||
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"Colour me confused here. A lot of people seem to be debating abortion on demand above. Isn't the change that's being discussed where there is a risk to the mother that termination will be an option? As in the foetal abnormalities ." Yes would be the simple answer. However it's more about what will this open the door to? Once the 8th amendment is removed the law can be changed to alow abortions for a host of other reasons relatively easy if a particular government has the will to do it. And for those that think all men can just walk away. How about the guy that is happy married with 3 young kids and his wife is pregnant with his fourth. Do you realy think he can just walk away? With out any major life changing consequences? That may or may not be to the derument of his mental health and his relationship with his other kids? | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?
Hold on one minute! Why is it down to a woman to be on contraceptives??? Wish to fuck there was a male pill ! Id make sure my lads were taking it instead of making sure they were carrying condoms. Youre old school willywrapper! and a young man too to assume that women should be on contraceptives and you dont protect yourself? Why is it down to women then? Answer me and enlighten ne cos i for one am at a loss. "again jumping to conclusions. i asked why doesn't she use some sort of contraceptive. a man should always look after his area ie. use a condom | |||
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"Colour me confused here. A lot of people seem to be debating abortion on demand above. Isn't the change that's being discussed where there is a risk to the mother that termination will be an option? As in the foetal abnormalities scenario? I didn't think that we were changing to the full on termination at the woman's request, at least not yet. Maybe I am wrong but if I'm correct, a lot of the above debate is a moot point. Feel free to correct me as I haven't seen any news today or heard any radio. Just do it nicely please. You are correct. Which is why I suggested the guy above do some research as he thinks it allows for women to abort 'on demand'. " Many thanks Fire. Thought I had missed a bigger decision. I do wish everyone would stick to the specific topic, rather than wander off into full termination on demand. That would help. Yes, I know everyone has a right to their opinion and to give voice to it but stick to the specific topic. So the actual debate is that women in what are basically life threatening situations, or their doctors, should be able to determine if a termination is one of the options that need to be discussed and, if chosen, can be performed legally in Ireland. That'll be a Yes vote from me. | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?
Hold on one minute! Why is it down to a woman to be on contraceptives??? Wish to fuck there was a male pill ! Id make sure my lads were taking it instead of making sure they were carrying condoms. Youre old school willywrapper! and a young man too to assume that women should be on contraceptives and you dont protect yourself? Why is it down to women then? Answer me and enlighten ne cos i for one am at a loss. again jumping to conclusions. i asked why doesn't she use some sort of contraceptive. a man should always look after his area ie. use a condom "so in a nutshell both protect themselves | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?"But those kinda pregnancies are not what repealing the 8th is about!! Seriously people need to read up on this!! | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?
But those kinda pregnancies are not what repealing the 8th is about!! Seriously people need to read up on this!! "I'm not on about repealing the 8th at all. i havnt a clue what that is to be honest | |||
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"I am pro choice and i can understand while some women go for an abortions. While i would prefer if they didn't i would support anyone who fewls the need to go though this. We never know what is going on in that persin life at all That's the while point.. just because somebody is anti abortion doesn't mean another person should by be allowed choose! This debate honestly boils my blood. If her life is in danger, or.she has bee a victim of an assault etc why not allow her the choice?? Numerous women have died in our hospitals because of this!!" I was r@ped not long ago and honestly it nearly destroyed me. It took everything for me to start chatting to people to eve accept what had happened to me and this was in august just gone. If god forbid i found out i was pregant due to the result of this r@pe. I dont think i could have survived to be honest. I am only 4 months down from what had happened and i couldnt have seen my self taking caring of a little one and not remembering how this little one came about. And this is one scenario that can arise. There many other things that can happen so yes a women should by all means choose themself what they need. | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion " Sorry to hear that Chocko. Our opinions differ a little but you have my sympathies in regards to your grandson. | |||
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"I buried my grandson 23 weeks and in England you can get abortion up to 23 weeks . He was a normal baby and I don't know how anyone could have abortion Do you not? Well heres where the man and woman thing come into play! I can perfectly understand why a woman wants an abortion! Ive seen some stupid statements from you Chocko but youve no idea what goes on. Testosterone dulls the empathy in men!it's very easy stop a pregnancy also. if it wasn't I'd have about 10 children by now You do realise that contraception can fail? No method is 100%of course it can but if done properly it won't. if your method stands up nobody would have sex at all for fear of a pregnancy. Shout out to all the single dads here then! Ask them were they 100% in their protection! Ask them did they force the pill their girlfriends/partners throat at the time. Ask her while youre at it did she wrap his willy so tight in condoms that it couldnt breathe! Would you stop ye snowflake... life would be great " if only" if only you knew. i guarentee the vast majority of pregnancies ( without even knowing) happen from a man and woman not using contraception. i wait in baited breath for the comment "I was 100 % carefull and still got pregnant"
plus I guarentee I will continue to have sex and not end up in the situation at my choosing plus tell me this. if a woman doesn't want to run the risk of a pregnancy why is she not on some sort of contraceptive?
Hold on one minute! Why is it down to a woman to be on contraceptives??? Wish to fuck there was a male pill ! Id make sure my lads were taking it instead of making sure they were carrying condoms. Youre old school willywrapper! and a young man too to assume that women should be on contraceptives and you dont protect yourself? Why is it down to women then? Answer me and enlighten ne cos i for one am at a loss. "private mail me for a minute please | |||
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"Colour me confused here. A lot of people seem to be debating abortion on demand above. Isn't the change that's being discussed where there is a risk to the mother that termination will be an option? As in the foetal abnormalities . Yes would be the simple answer. However it's more about what will this open the door to? Once the 8th amendment is removed the law can be changed to alow abortions for a host of other reasons relatively easy if a particular government has the will to do it. And for those that think all men can just walk away. How about the guy that is happy married with 3 young kids and his wife is pregnant with his fourth. Do you realy think he can just walk away? With out any major life changing consequences? That may or may not be to the derument of his mental health and his relationship with his other kids?" And what if continuing the pregnancy will end the mothers life? Which is exactly the circumstances this is about so I'm seriously concerned about some of the opinions here. | |||
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"I am pro choice and i can understand while some women go for an abortions. While i would prefer if they didn't i would support anyone who fewls the need to go though this. We never know what is going on in that persin life at all That's the while point.. just because somebody is anti abortion doesn't mean another person should by be allowed choose! This debate honestly boils my blood. If her life is in danger, or.she has bee a victim of an assault etc why not allow her the choice?? Numerous women have died in our hospitals because of this!! I was r@ped not long ago and honestly it nearly destroyed me. It took everything for me to start chatting to people to eve accept what had happened to me and this was in august just gone. If god forbid i found out i was pregant due to the result of this r@pe. I dont think i could have survived to be honest. I am only 4 months down from what had happened and i couldnt have seen my self taking caring of a little one and not remembering how this little one came about. And this is one scenario that can arise. There many other things that can happen so yes a women should by all means choose themself what they need." Very sorry to hear that. Saddened and I do hope that you reported and took action. Yes, it's one of many scenarios others need to be aware of when forming their opinion. | |||
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"I am pro choice and i can understand while some women go for an abortions. While i would prefer if they didn't i would support anyone who fewls the need to go though this. We never know what is going on in that persin life at all That's the while point.. just because somebody is anti abortion doesn't mean another person should by be allowed choose! This debate honestly boils my blood. If her life is in danger, or.she has bee a victim of an assault etc why not allow her the choice?? Numerous women have died in our hospitals because of this!! I was r@ped not long ago and honestly it nearly destroyed me. It took everything for me to start chatting to people to eve accept what had happened to me and this was in august just gone. If god forbid i found out i was pregant due to the result of this r@pe. I dont think i could have survived to be honest. I am only 4 months down from what had happened and i couldnt have seen my self taking caring of a little one and not remembering how this little one came about. And this is one scenario that can arise. There many other things that can happen so yes a women should by all means choose themself what they need." So sorry to hear that happened you. I hope the ill informed men on this thread can heed your thoughts on this as it appears they don't think it matters. | |||
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" And what if continuing the pregnancy will end the mothers life? Which is exactly the circumstances this is about so I'm seriously concerned about some of the opinions here." If it is clear cut as that I would say yes. But what about little Mary that decideds that she would rather go on a sun holiday with the girls and lands herself in to the GPS office and says that unless she gets an abortion that she she going for a swim with some rocks in her pockets.she has no real problem with being pregnant but knows that a few well told lies will get her what she wants | |||
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" And what if continuing the pregnancy will end the mothers life? Which is exactly the circumstances this is about so I'm seriously concerned about some of the opinions here. If it is clear cut as that I would say yes. But what about little Mary that decideds that she would rather go on a sun holiday with the girls and lands herself in to the GPS office and says that unless she gets an abortion that she she going for a swim with some rocks in her pockets.she has no real problem with being pregnant but knows that a few well told lies will get her what she wants" Sorry not even gonna justify that with a response. In out. | |||
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" And what if continuing the pregnancy will end the mothers life? Which is exactly the circumstances this is about so I'm seriously concerned about some of the opinions here. If it is clear cut as that I would say yes. But what about little Mary that decideds that she would rather go on a sun holiday with the girls and lands herself in to the GPS office and says that unless she gets an abortion that she she going for a swim with some rocks in her pockets.she has no real problem with being pregnant but knows that a few well told lies will get her what she wants" The lady has to go through a process, including a panel of health professionals, if memory serves me two psychiatrists have to sign of on the legitimacy of her claim. | |||
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" The lady has to go through a process, including a panel of health professionals, if memory serves me two psychiatrists have to sign of on the legitimacy of her claim." Is this the case now or if the 8th is repealed? | |||
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" The lady has to go through a process, including a panel of health professionals, if memory serves me two psychiatrists have to sign of on the legitimacy of her claim. Is this the case now or if the 8th is repealed?" This is the current legislation, may I suggest you read up on it | |||
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" The lady has to go through a process, including a panel of health professionals, if memory serves me two psychiatrists have to sign of on the legitimacy of her claim. Is this the case now or if the 8th is repealed? This is the current legislation, may I suggest you read up on it "Than why use it as part of the argument as to why the 8th should be repealed? | |||
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"To all those celebrating the triumph of the person with the uterus to have a choice. What about the baby that gets murdered each time. What choice did it have...? Do you want doctors to remove the fetuses asked their opinion? Cop on its not a baby. If it was a baby why can't pregnant women claim children's allowance till it's born " Social welfare=science I've heard it all | |||
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" The lady has to go through a process, including a panel of health professionals, if memory serves me two psychiatrists have to sign of on the legitimacy of her claim. Is this the case now or if the 8th is repealed? This is the current legislation, may I suggest you read up on it
Than why use it as part of the argument as to why the 8th should be repealed?"The law as it stands at the moment under the 8th makes it impossible for any government to introduce legislation allowing for terminations in the womb except in exceptional circumstances outlined above. Legislation will now be put together for a referendum next year. Nothing has been decided, government will now take today's recommendations and put a bill together, to present to the public. | |||
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"When will we get legal bodily autonomy to have someone assist in our suicide or to inject heroin as we please? " Consumption rooms, have hit a bump at the moment, but there coming on stream. | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . " So so sad. But, it's the truth | |||
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"The hypocrisy, bigotry and self righteousness never ceases to do my head in when this topic is discussed in Ireland. Fact is that over the last 36 years approximately 170'000 Irish women got an abortion abroad, that's on average a 5000 a year! Now you can close your eyes about that fact and hide behind the 8th amendment and pretend to be a country that is pro life, where the unborn is sacrosanct and holier than holy. Or you can face the truth and regulate the issue and give some decency back to women who have so far no other choice than do a trip abroad. I'm not a promoter of abortion, I never had one, but I had friends in that situation. No woman takes an abortion easily and it's a tough choice. We're in the 21st century and if Ireland wants to progress to a secular country it has to cop on on the issue of abortion and should no longer deny that abortion is happening in this country despite the fact that the procedure is done abroad. " | |||
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" You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. " These are special circumstances that absolutely do warrant the choice on ethical or medical grounds that I fully support. That said, I'm not so sure in the case of socioeconomic inconvenience! Even when it's written that way it sounds very disrespectful to human potential and our basic function as animals (not money making machines fooled by materialism). I'll be opting out of any vote as I'm torn between a few issues 1. No matter how you try spin it, a potential human is a potential human.. Friend, family member, etc. and my adopted friend would almost certainly not be here had abortion been an option at the time. Both she and I are very glad with how her human potential was dealt with. 2. I feel the father should have an at least notional say in commited relationships and don't like the rhetoric of "if you haven't a uterus you have no say". 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . " To be fair, women don't have a monopoly on the abuses of the past. Thankfully all that is behind us and shouldn't factor into this debate. | |||
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" You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. These are special circumstances that absolutely do warrant the choice on ethical or medical grounds that I fully support. That said, I'm not so sure in the case of socioeconomic inconvenience! Even when it's written that way it sounds very disrespectful to human potential and our basic function as animals (not money making machines fooled by materialism). I'll be opting out of any vote as I'm torn between a few issues 1. No matter how you try spin it, a potential human is a potential human.. Friend, family member, etc. and my adopted friend would almost certainly not be here had abortion been an option at the time. Both she and I are very glad with how her human potential was dealt with. 2. I feel the father should have an at least notional say in commited relationships and don't like the rhetoric of "if you haven't a uterus you have no say". 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. " I agree on points 2 & 3. Point 1, who would have known otherwise? I don't mean that in a callous regard. Many things in life are a pondering What if? so it's kinda in the ether, if you get me. | |||
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" You dont know the circumstances WHY women choose abortion! What about r@pe victims where pregnancy occurs? Or inc3st or abuse? Have these women no say whatsover and have to just get on with it? Yep..its such an inconvenience to them.. These are special circumstances that absolutely do warrant the choice on ethical or medical grounds that I fully support. That said, I'm not so sure in the case of socioeconomic inconvenience! Even when it's written that way it sounds very disrespectful to human potential and our basic function as animals (not money making machines fooled by materialism). I'll be opting out of any vote as I'm torn between a few issues 1. No matter how you try spin it, a potential human is a potential human.. Friend, family member, etc. and my adopted friend would almost certainly not be here had abortion been an option at the time. Both she and I are very glad with how her human potential was dealt with. 2. I feel the father should have an at least notional say in commited relationships and don't like the rhetoric of "if you haven't a uterus you have no say". 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. " Socio economic reasons will not be factored into the bill, from my understanding. | |||
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" 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. " If you really think women would rather conceive and abort than use contraceptives you don't know women. | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . To be fair, women don't have a monopoly on the abuses of the past. Thankfully all that is behind us and shouldn't factor into this debate. " The first two cases mention above happened just recently. So from my point of view it does factor in. And how do you stand to all those who make a trip abroad. Do they not exist? Or because it is done abroad are we still on the 'good' side? Do you think when abortion is made more available more women will go for it? Just open your eyes it's abortion is happening for years, decades. | |||
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" I agree on points 2 & 3. Point 1, who would have known otherwise? I don't mean that in a callous regard. Many things in life are a pondering What if? so it's kinda in the ether, if you get me." I do get you and its purely a philosophical argument about where life begins and ends. Either way my friend is very much anti abortion as she would have been one - I can't not factor in her point of view. | |||
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" 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. If you really think women would rather conceive and abort than use contraceptives you don't know women. " I would beg to differ, in regards to labelling all women the same. Having lived in England for 10yrs, I did know women who were very casual about contraception and did have an "sure I can just get rid of it" attitude. Not many but they do exist. Just saying, not trying to pick a fight, honest. | |||
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" 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. If you really think women would rather conceive and abort than use contraceptives you don't know women. " I know how reckless people can be with percieved get out options in all aspects of life. Human nature for some risk taking types. You don't need to make it a men vs. women thing. | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now!" While I mostly agree with your lack of uterus argument I would say that a man has the right to an opinion if it is his progeny that is being assessed for aborting. To say otherwise would be foolish. On the other hand as a male I have no desire to interfere in the choice of someone else that has nothing whatsoever to do with me. | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . To be fair, women don't have a monopoly on the abuses of the past. Thankfully all that is behind us and shouldn't factor into this debate. The first two cases mention above happened just recently. So from my point of view it does factor in. And how do you stand to all those who make a trip abroad. Do they not exist? Or because it is done abroad are we still on the 'good' side? Do you think when abortion is made more available more women will go for it? Just open your eyes it's abortion is happening for years, decades. " Fair enough...I'm just tired of anti old schoolcatholic arguments. I recognise the hypocrisy but I'm kinda comfortable with it (don't lynch me!). It adds a layer of deterrence. There's no point trying to make a horrible act more manageable or "decent" . The location of the act doesn't matter much to the psyche of the person choosing it. | |||
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" I agree on points 2 & 3. Point 1, who would have known otherwise? I don't mean that in a callous regard. Many things in life are a pondering What if? so it's kinda in the ether, if you get me. I do get you and its purely a philosophical argument about where life begins and ends. Either way my friend is very much anti abortion as she would have been one - I can't not factor in her point of view. " Yes, completely understand that and you are correct to factor in that point of view. There are many, many different factors that should be considered and I do hope that everyone weighs them all up before voting, having made an informed decision, based on all the facts, rather than "gut instinct". | |||
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" Socio economic reasons will not be factored into the bill, from my understanding." OK thanks. I just adopted that reason from a prochoice poster above. | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . To be fair, women don't have a monopoly on the abuses of the past. Thankfully all that is behind us and shouldn't factor into this debate. The first two cases mention above happened just recently. So from my point of view it does factor in. And how do you stand to all those who make a trip abroad. Do they not exist? Or because it is done abroad are we still on the 'good' side? Do you think when abortion is made more available more women will go for it? Just open your eyes it's abortion is happening for years, decades. Fair enough...I'm just tired of anti old schoolcatholic arguments. I recognise the hypocrisy but I'm kinda comfortable with it (don't lynch me!). It adds a layer of deterrence. There's no point trying to make a horrible act more manageable or "decent" . The location of the act doesn't matter much to the psyche of the person choosing it. " I disagree with the latter. Having to go abroad for an abortion adds the stigma of doing something illegal, often with no support from people close to you. | |||
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" 3. I fear second order effects of more rampant bareback and less general care with contraceptive methods. If you really think women would rather conceive and abort than use contraceptives you don't know women. " Oh my god did a man say this!!! | |||
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"We live in a country that let a woman die from complications when a termination should have been performed to save her life , a country that kept a brain dead woman alive because she was pregnant a country that barbarically treated single mothers in laundries whilst burying their supposed sins in mass graves . Notice how all of this medieval barbarism has been meted out to women , and still some will deny us the choice of bodily integrity to make decisions for ourselves , shame on those who would seek to make a woman suffer an unwanted pregnancy for their high and mighty opinions on what she can and can’t do with her own life and body . To be fair, women don't have a monopoly on the abuses of the past. Thankfully all that is behind us and shouldn't factor into this debate. The first two cases mention above happened just recently. So from my point of view it does factor in. And how do you stand to all those who make a trip abroad. Do they not exist? Or because it is done abroad are we still on the 'good' side? Do you think when abortion is made more available more women will go for it? Just open your eyes it's abortion is happening for years, decades. Fair enough...I'm just tired of anti old schoolcatholic arguments. I recognise the hypocrisy but I'm kinda comfortable with it (don't lynch me!). It adds a layer of deterrence. There's no point trying to make a horrible act more manageable or "decent" . The location of the act doesn't matter much to the psyche of the person choosing it. I disagree with the latter. Having to go abroad for an abortion adds the stigma of doing something illegal, often with no support from people close to you. " The location of the act also has financial implications, I have known women who have had to beg and borrow the few thousand, to pay for this service. | |||
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"I am pro choice and i can understand while some women go for an abortions. While i would prefer if they didn't i would support anyone who fewls the need to go though this. We never know what is going on in that persin life at all That's the while point.. just because somebody is anti abortion doesn't mean another person should by be allowed choose! This debate honestly boils my blood. If her life is in danger, or.she has bee a victim of an assault etc why not allow her the choice?? Numerous women have died in our hospitals because of this!! I was r@ped not long ago and honestly it nearly destroyed me. It took everything for me to start chatting to people to eve accept what had happened to me and this was in august just gone. If god forbid i found out i was pregant due to the result of this r@pe. I dont think i could have survived to be honest. I am only 4 months down from what had happened and i couldnt have seen my self taking caring of a little one and not remembering how this little one came about. And this is one scenario that can arise. There many other things that can happen so yes a women should by all means choose themself what they need." I am so sorry this happened to you. It's taken alot of strength to get this far and say it out loud. Quite rightly a woman in this or any awful situation should be allowed to choose without the stress of having to travel and be looked after here by friends and family afterwards. I'm sure I don't have to to tell you this but your strong and you will heal after this ordeal xx | |||
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"Threads on this topic never fails to boil my blood but I'm delighted to say that most here seem to be of sound mind. I'm pro-choice, I think abortion should be brought in and regulated. In the event there's a threat to the mother's life, it's a no-brainer. Victims of R@pe or inc3st have the choice. Pro-lifers would have you believe it's being forced on these people. I'd rather not see abortions happen for socio-economic reasons, adoption seems like a better option. More than anything, I'd like to see women, girls have the right to choose for themselves. Do you know how difficult it is to put a baby up for adoption in this country? " Yes I do, but surely it's a better option than terminating a healthy pregnancy. Both are extremely difficult options in an extremely difficult decision for the woman/girl involved but again, her choice | |||
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"I'm very much in the anti camp. Contraception is there, use it if you don't want a kid. " Get the snip then | |||
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"I'm very much in the anti camp. Contraception is there, use it if you don't want a kid. " And when contraception fails? | |||
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"I'm very much in the anti camp. Contraception is there, use it if you don't want a kid. Get the snip then" Why would I? I never said I don't want a kid. | |||
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"I'm very much in the anti camp. Contraception is there, use it if you don't want a kid. And when contraception fails? " And that happens how often to be exact? I have no issue with women who resort to abortion after failed contraception or being a victim of the R word. The issue is that there are women who get abortion because they don't want a kid and don't use contraception. Which in my opinion is totally fucked up and should be charged as murder. | |||
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"I'm very much in the anti camp. Contraception is there, use it if you don't want a kid. And when contraception fails? And that happens how often to be exact? I have no issue with women who resort to abortion after failed contraception or being a victim of the R word. The issue is that there are women who get abortion because they don't want a kid and don't use contraception. Which in my opinion is totally fucked up and should be charged as murder." bit extreme but I see your drift. there is people out there who are extremely careless. i have had this discussion earlier in the thread on contraception, my view been woman use' s hers man uses his, simple. even if u do eventually get a woman pregnant, because she carries that child and it effects her body physically and mentally you won't realistically have a say. that's the stark reality for a man who wants to become a father. | |||
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"I know its not much craic but a virtually fail safe method for not getting pregnant myself and an ex used was pill + condom + don't cum inside. It's easy to avoid "accidents" with prudence. " very true but what you will find with alot of couple a when they get serious is a condom will stop getting used and there when you run the risk | |||
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"I know its not much craic but a virtually fail safe method for not getting pregnant myself and an ex used was pill + condom + don't cum inside. It's easy to avoid "accidents" with prudence. very true but what you will find with alot of couple a when they get serious is a condom will stop getting used and there when you run the risk " I believe the pill has a lot of adverse effects for some ladies, contributes to weight gain, etc in some, I've also heard of it being prescribed to young teenagers to combat acne... | |||
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Anyway, it's good to see a balanced debate here. | |||
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"I know its not much craic but a virtually fail safe method for not getting pregnant myself and an ex used was pill + condom + don't cum inside. It's easy to avoid "accidents" with prudence. very true but what you will find with alot of couple a when they get serious is a condom will stop getting used and there when you run the risk I believe the pill has a lot of adverse effects for some ladies, contributes to weight gain, etc in some, I've also heard of it being prescribed to young teenagers to combat acne..." I'm not clued in fully on contraceptives for women but there is more then just the pill | |||
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"Fair point about hormones... Even condom plus don't cum inside will give a very high chance of successfully not getting pregnant. Depends how "trigger happy" you are
Anyway, it's good to see a balanced debate here. "When you consider that alcohol plays a major role in sexual hook-ups, you then appreciate how much of a minefield this actually is. Do public health messages work? Again, when you consider that two out of three women continue to drink alcohol during pregnancy, even though women are aware, this in not in the best interest of the unborn child, you would have to be skeptical. Drink driving being another example. | |||
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"It looks like a lot of men think us women are too stupid to avoid pregnancy and are looking forward to be able to get an abortion. How patronising some of you come across. You really don’t trust our judgment at all, don’t you? Just because abortions won’t be illegal anymore , doesn’t mean there are going to be more Irish women getting abortions. Get in your heads, that this is the LAST RESORT and no woman actually wants or enjoys an abortion. " Why does it always have to be transformed into a men vs women issue? You need comrades not adverseraries | |||
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"Abortion is not back or white it will always be a grey area and everyone will always have a different opinion on it People are entitled to their opinion but with this topic, if you don't have a uterus, your opinion isn't valid. And if you do have a uterus and are anti-choice, it's literally none of your business what other people do with their bodies. Delighted the motion has passed, not delighted that they're not allowing it for socio-economic reasons. Looking forward to the referendum now!" my sentiments exactly. | |||
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" I would not judge anyone and in fact feel sorry for anyone who for their own reasons has had an abortion but insisting it's a woman's right to do this doesn't make it right. " While I don't think it's inherently wrong as there are legit scenarios, the bodily rights thing while half true is still lazy thinking. The future human may be a woman with rights to her body. It's all circular. | |||
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