FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > God.. how do I broach this?
God.. how do I broach this?
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Hey everyone! I've been on here quite a while and have had a few good times and meets. To be honest I snoop more than I interact lol! I don't post very often but I think I might need help! I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but sure here ya go!
Before I start I'm married and am on here without wife's knowledge - I know that will cause a bit of a stir but please don't judge! I think couples on here deserve great praise btw.
Anyway, throughout our relationship we've had a fun, exciting sex life with plenty of laughs and frolics. Now and again we would watch sensual, erotic and amateur mff porn while we are playing. Last night we had great fun again and we got talking about how much my wife would love to try mff - we both know she would enjoy it and we even discussed my role as being more passive and playing with her more than a potential f... afterwards we chatted more and she said: ' sure it's only a fantasy and dream, it'll never happen... like I wouldn't do it with friends and how would we even organise it'
Using an escort is not what neither of us would ever want to do and I was just dying to say.. 'eh well I have heard of this place called fab where people who are like minded can chat, make contact and possibly meet' - I didn't have the balls to say it.
If any coupes or singles on here have ever been in the same position could you please share your experience: (a) how did you broach the subject and (b) was the response positive or negative.
Thanks in advance!  |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Aw god I hope not! I was really close to saying... 'sure leave it with me and I'll ask me google' lol I just know we would both love it.. though it would have to be well planned and at a hotel I'd reckon... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Feck sake man if she's telling you she wants it then why the heck didn't you just mentilon FAB? You had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Such a long winded post only to end up with a floppy ending  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw god I hope not! I was really close to saying... 'sure leave it with me and I'll ask me google' lol I just know we would both love it.. though it would have to be well planned and at a hotel I'd reckon... "
Why don't you sit her down this evening and say : "listen love had a quick Google and stumbled upon this site and if you're up for it we could seriously do it. It's up to you though it's you who'll be having most of the fun" |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Haha sorry for the long windedness.. just had to explain all lol I just didn't have the guts to say it cause she would have said 'eh how do u know about that! ' lol ps the floppiness didn't come until after the ending last night! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw god I hope not! I was really close to saying... 'sure leave it with me and I'll ask me google' lol I just know we would both love it.. though it would have to be well planned and at a hotel I'd reckon...
Why don't you sit her down this evening and say : "listen love had a quick Google and stumbled upon this site and if you're up for it we could seriously do it. It's up to you though it's you who'll be having most of the fun" "
Ya I'm sure she will be delighted to find out he is on here cheating on her |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw god I hope not! I was really close to saying... 'sure leave it with me and I'll ask me google' lol I just know we would both love it.. though it would have to be well planned and at a hotel I'd reckon...
Why don't you sit her down this evening and say : "listen love had a quick Google and stumbled upon this site and if you're up for it we could seriously do it. It's up to you though it's you who'll be having most of the fun"
Ya I'm sure she will be delighted to find out he is on here cheating on her "
That's not part of his plan though... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aw god I hope not! I was really close to saying... 'sure leave it with me and I'll ask me google' lol I just know we would both love it.. though it would have to be well planned and at a hotel I'd reckon...
Why don't you sit her down this evening and say : "listen love had a quick Google and stumbled upon this site and if you're up for it we could seriously do it. It's up to you though it's you who'll be having most of the fun"
Ya I'm sure she will be delighted to find out he is on here cheating on her
That's not part of his plan though... "
No obviously not |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
Go back to her and tell her that you did a bit of browsing and that there are plenty of websites where you can meet and discuss the topic and maybe even make the dream come trough. Suggest to set up a couple profile, it's free and no harm in checking it out. Don't forget to hide or delete your profile if you do so. Good luck! |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Definately not... like I said in original post - I know that being married and on here will irk some people, and those who are on here with partners consent or as a couple are to be applauded big time Imo.
Tbh when I joined fab I probably expected to find other married rascals but that's obviously not the case given the number of couple profiles. |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"Go back to her and tell her that you did a bit of browsing and that there are plenty of websites where you can meet and discuss the topic and maybe even make the dream come trough. Suggest to set up a couple profile, it's free and no harm in checking it out. Don't forget to hide or delete your profile if you do so. Good luck! "
Thanks for that advice - that had crossed my mind. We have a stay in a lovely Kildare hotel over next two nights so I think there'll be an opportunity to chat some more. |
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I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples "
Thanks so much apples for the advice. I'm sure it is fun and to be totally honest it is all about her. I know how much she loves playing and we were imagining her and a friend playing on the bed of a nice hotel and me in a bathrobe playing alone on the corner chair... joining with her on her nod... Christ Devine im getting carried away here lol!
If she sees this thread I'd just say I obviously have a cock twin from the same area as ourselves... what a coincidence lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can discover here with her. Show her the app. Join as a couple. Keep talking about it. Let her dictate the pace of the interaction.
My wife said the same thing. It's only a fantasy it will never happen. Then I found this place and we took our time, kept talking to each other and joined as a couple |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"You can discover here with her. Show her the app. Join as a couple. Keep talking about it. Let her dictate the pace of the interaction.
My wife said the same thing. It's only a fantasy it will never happen. Then I found this place and we took our time, kept talking to each other and joined as a couple "
Once again sound advice guys and thanks for the dm. Thank you all for the advice so far!  |
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"Delete your profile for a start then discuss fab and get a couples one with your obviously very kinky wife .. problem solved "
If you are lucky enough to have a wife who is interested in exploring this scene with you then go for it. The only thing that can make a threesome or foursome better is having your partner involved too.
I've been down that road of "it's only a fantasy, it'll never happen, how would we go about it" etc. Eventually we did join a site as a couple, went to a social but that was as far as my wife would go and kept saying "someday we'll try again" Only after several years of hearing that did I decide to go it alone. I've met some great people and have some great memories (more to come hopefully) but the one thing I really wanted was having her there with me through it all. Not going to happen for me but if there's a chance of it happening for you, take it. You don't have to rush into anything. Tell her you found a couple of sites, let her choose a site, or two and set up your profile together. Puth the emphasis on socials or meet & greets to begin with so she can get to see that the majority of the people in the scene are just normal everyday folk that you would see in the supermarket or at a resturaunt. Also socials etc; releive the pressure of feeling like you have to engage in intimate activities, you can just travel to the meet & go home again.
Whatever you decide to do I hope it works out well for both of you. |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"Delete your profile for a start then discuss fab and get a couples one with your obviously very kinky wife .. problem solved
If you are lucky enough to have a wife who is interested in exploring this scene with you then go for it. The only thing that can make a threesome or foursome better is having your partner involved too.
I've been down that road of "it's only a fantasy, it'll never happen, how would we go about it" etc. Eventually we did join a site as a couple, went to a social but that was as far as my wife would go and kept saying "someday we'll try again" Only after several years of hearing that did I decide to go it alone. I've met some great people and have some great memories (more to come hopefully) but the one thing I really wanted was having her there with me through it all. Not going to happen for me but if there's a chance of it happening for you, take it. You don't have to rush into anything. Tell her you found a couple of sites, let her choose a site, or two and set up your profile together. Puth the emphasis on socials or meet & greets to begin with so she can get to see that the majority of the people in the scene are just normal everyday folk that you would see in the supermarket or at a resturaunt. Also socials etc; releive the pressure of feeling like you have to engage in intimate activities, you can just travel to the meet & go home again.
Whatever you decide to do I hope it works out well for both of you."
Wow Andrew thanks for taking the time for a lengthy reply. I can imagine how much fun this would be as a couple, especially with a f partner keen to explore. I think what you have said about sharing the experience has really hit a chord tbh. We have a great life in general but I'm just a bit too naughty for my own good lol!
I'm afraid m and g and parties are out of the question if we reach that discussion - we both have jobs which require total discretion (I know everyone says that and counter the argument with 'sure we're all here for the same thing' - but it's just not for me anyway and I'm sure my wife would say the same)
On the plus side I've had 24 profile views today! Almost as many as I've had over the last 278 days lol - defo have to change that cock profile pic! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Go back to her and tell her that you did a bit of browsing and that there are plenty of websites where you can meet and discuss the topic and maybe even make the dream come trough. Suggest to set up a couple profile, it's free and no harm in checking it out. Don't forget to hide or delete your profile if you do so. Good luck! "
And avoid the temptation to give it the ole "hold on love. I'll verify our account from mine" chestnut. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Google swinging sites uk/irl
Fab pops up as one if the sites
See if she shows any interest in looking 
Thanks for that! I tried to dm you there but can't as I'm not a site supporter. "
Let us know the outcome |
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"I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples "
This , but start out with a different site , this thread will have ran its course in a week or so, you should be safe by then ! Good luck with it !! |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"Best of luck OP. Was in a similar situation myself. Hope it works out. "
Thanks mate. Would love to hear how you broached the subject and how it ended. Feel free to dm if you'd rather not say in forum.
Cheers |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples
This , but start out with a different site , this thread will have ran its course in a week or so, you should be safe by then ! Good luck with it !! "
Thanks for the advice! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I wouldn't just come out n say,oh BTW, blah blah blah.
I'd bring it up again during foreplay, find out how would she go about it.
Make sure she wants it instead of saying it to get u off  |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Thanks hot spice. Yes I think during foreplay could be a good idea and I totally agree that it has to be what she wants... I really think she does but fantasy is usually better than reality and I'm sure we can all testify to that.
I'm sure this thread will fall well down the list in the next day or so, therefore thanks a million for all who replied on here and dm'd me. I was a bit anxious posting my first thread but you've all made it very easy and I've got excellent advice.
Thanks everyone! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just tell her the truth. 'You stand no chance of find a single fem to use as a sex toy on fab hun, oh and I'm already on there.' More chance for her to have her pick of men tho.......and maybe that's when she tells you she's already on here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just tell her the truth. 'You stand no chance of find a single fem to use as a sex toy on fab hun, oh and I'm already on there.' More chance for her to have her pick of men tho.......and maybe that's when she tells you she's already on here."
lol imagine?!.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just tell her the truth. 'You stand no chance of find a single fem to use as a sex toy on fab hun, oh and I'm already on there.' More chance for her to have her pick of men tho.......and maybe that's when she tells you she's already on here. lol imagine?!.... "
It's a possibility. Seriously how many vanilla can name fab? Most woukd just say a swingers or sex site. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just tell her the truth. 'You stand no chance of find a single fem to use as a sex toy on fab hun, oh and I'm already on there.' More chance for her to have her pick of men tho.......and maybe that's when she tells you she's already on here. lol imagine?!....
It's a possibility. Seriously how many vanilla can name fab? Most woukd just say a swingers or sex site."
Oh it's entirely possible,would be poetic justice is all I meant. |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Holy crap that would be a turn up for the books of she is on here lol would certainly make things a bit smoother.
On a different note I have a colleague from work who is much older than me but uses the word 'fab' all the time.. plus she wears one of them yokes round her ankle! Do you think she is trying to tell me something?? Lol |
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By *j47Man
over a year ago
limerick |
"Holy crap that would be a turn up for the books of she is on here lol would certainly make things a bit smoother.
On a different note I have a colleague from work who is much older than me but uses the word 'fab' all the time.. plus she wears one of them yokes round her ankle! Do you think she is trying to tell me something?? Lol "
Does it have HW charms on it 
Or maybe just ask her why she wears an anklet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Munching my popcorn here in the dark .... don't mind me ... carry on ...  
Can I have some ?
I have salted and sugar ones ... which one ya want ?? "
Do I have to pick can't I have both ? Not mixed together now that would just be weird |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Munching my popcorn here in the dark .... don't mind me ... carry on ...
Can I have some ?
I have salted and sugar ones ... which one ya want ??
Do I have to pick can't I have both ? Not mixed together now that would just be weird "
You can both... just cuz it's you.... Drink ?? |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
Haha the thing about seeking advice is taking heed of it! The vibe here seems to be to be patient and give her time, then at the right moment mobenthings a little further... so I think that's what I'll do.
I wouldn't be waiting up so thanks speak! lol
Thanks for your concern all the same! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haha the thing about seeking advice is taking heed of it! The vibe here seems to be to be patient and give her time, then at the right moment mobenthings a little further... so I think that's what I'll do.
I wouldn't be waiting up so thanks speak! lol
Thanks for your concern all the same! "
Things worth going and worth the investment of time and patience. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be very honest ( which I always am)
I don't buy your story.
You've been on here for quiet some time. You obviously meet up. You had the perfect opportunity to tell her, to jump into fab world with her and you didn't. You could have deleted your profile made a couples one with her. Again you didnt. You've been interacting more then meeting up. Well I am sure the conversation has come up at some stage. So you know what to do. You know what she is leaning towards. Yet you still havent seized the opportunity.
Think you are trying to look like the good guy justifying being married ans on fab,with the praises you were giving before you explained your situation.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
   |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"To be very honest ( which I always am)
I don't buy your story.
You've been on here for quiet some time. You obviously meet up. You had the perfect opportunity to tell her, to jump into fab world with her and you didn't. You could have deleted your profile made a couples one with her. Again you didnt. You've been interacting more then meeting up. Well I am sure the conversation has come up at some stage. So you know what to do. You know what she is leaning towards. Yet you still havent seized the opportunity.
Think you are trying to look like the good guy justifying being married ans on fab,with the praises you were giving before you explained your situation.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
"
Thanks for the honest appraisal unicorn... you're not on the money though to be honest.
Just telling her would have had a bad ending and while fab is great fun, it's more a segment of ones life than actual life if you know what I mean.
Of course it crossed my mind to say 'eh there's this place called fab' but what I wanted to know from this thread was, have any couples or singles been in similar positions and what have they done. This isn't a 'story' - I honestly wouldn't waste my time concocting non-sense. Whether you believe me or not is none of my business though - I'm in no way trying to justify being on here while married
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples
Thanks so much apples for the advice. I'm sure it is fun and to be totally honest it is all about her. I know how much she loves playing and we were imagining her and a friend playing on the bed of a nice hotel and me in a bathrobe playing alone on the corner chair... joining with her on her nod... Christ Devine im getting carried away here lol!
If she sees this thread I'd just say I obviously have a cock twin from the same area as ourselves... what a coincidence lol "
So if she does go on to agree to making a couple's profile on here you still plan on keeping your "single male" profile here without her knowledge??
Lucky lady! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell her you seen an interesting article in one of the Irish papers with an interesting link"
Could you drop your age limits by a year. Would love 2 send u a message. |
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"I am in agreement with others about telling her of your Google search today ...and let her take the ranges per say ...encourage her to set up the account .....make it all about her ..and only right too.....however here is the catch 22....what then if she sees this thread .....you're screwed then and not in a good way
Best of luck though..it really is greatfun when you are in it together
Apples
Thanks so much apples for the advice. I'm sure it is fun and to be totally honest it is all about her. I know how much she loves playing and we were imagining her and a friend playing on the bed of a nice hotel and me in a bathrobe playing alone on the corner chair... joining with her on her nod... Christ Devine im getting carried away here lol!
If she sees this thread I'd just say I obviously have a cock twin from the same area as ourselves... what a coincidence lol
So if she does go on to agree to making a couple's profile on here you still plan on keeping your "single male" profile here without her knowledge??
Lucky lady!"
Hey, no way - If we were a couple on here I wouldn't dream of keeping my male profile at all. I would definitely delete! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be very honest ( which I always am)
I don't buy your story.
You've been on here for quiet some time. You obviously meet up. You had the perfect opportunity to tell her, to jump into fab world with her and you didn't. You could have deleted your profile made a couples one with her. Again you didnt. You've been interacting more then meeting up. Well I am sure the conversation has come up at some stage. So you know what to do. You know what she is leaning towards. Yet you still havent seized the opportunity.
Think you are trying to look like the good guy justifying being married ans on fab,with the praises you were giving before you explained your situation.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the honest appraisal unicorn... you're not on the money though to be honest.
Just telling her would have had a bad ending and while fab is great fun, it's more a segment of ones life than actual life if you know what I mean.
Of course it crossed my mind to say 'eh there's this place called fab' but what I wanted to know from this thread was, have any couples or singles been in similar positions and what have they done. This isn't a 'story' - I honestly wouldn't waste my time concocting non-sense. Whether you believe me or not is none of my business though - I'm in no way trying to justify being on here while married
"
And you missed my point by miles.
You had ample opportunity to tell her. You didnt. You are carrying on.
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By *ewishguy OP Man
over a year ago
mid ulster |
"To be very honest ( which I always am)
I don't buy your story.
You've been on here for quiet some time. You obviously meet up. You had the perfect opportunity to tell her, to jump into fab world with her and you didn't. You could have deleted your profile made a couples one with her. Again you didnt. You've been interacting more then meeting up. Well I am sure the conversation has come up at some stage. So you know what to do. You know what she is leaning towards. Yet you still havent seized the opportunity.
Think you are trying to look like the good guy justifying being married ans on fab,with the praises you were giving before you explained your situation.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the honest appraisal unicorn... you're not on the money though to be honest.
Just telling her would have had a bad ending and while fab is great fun, it's more a segment of ones life than actual life if you know what I mean.
Of course it crossed my mind to say 'eh there's this place called fab' but what I wanted to know from this thread was, have any couples or singles been in similar positions and what have they done. This isn't a 'story' - I honestly wouldn't waste my time concocting non-sense. Whether you believe me or not is none of my business though - I'm in no way trying to justify being on here while married
And you missed my point by miles.
You had ample opportunity to tell her. You didnt. You are carrying on.
"
I think you should read my first post again to be fair. I make the point I'm married and on here without her knowledge. It's not that I wanted an opportunity to tell her I am on fab.... Christ that would be the end of my marriage!
I wanted to tell her there's a place where like minded people can engage, chat and maybe make contact as she has intimated she would like to play with another f, but feels it's only a dream / fantasy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just tell her the truth. 'You stand no chance of find a single fem to use as a sex toy on fab hun, oh and I'm already on there.' More chance for her to have her pick of men tho.......and maybe that's when she tells you she's already on here."
Send her a friend request? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You are on fab. Make her fantasy a reality.
You are married. You should be able to talk with her about this. "
Whoever this guy's lady is I'm sure she would be well impressed that her partner had been living a double life without her knowledge.
There are only two people who can address this...and decide on their futures and no matter what anyone here says it seems that how this evolves can only be resolved by those two people.
Unless we have walked in someone else's shoes we should be wary of what we advise the OP. Too many lived are wrecked dreams dashed hopes destroyed families ruined by hiding who we may be from those who may be important to us.
I have no answer for OP but I wish you luck in whatever decisions you take...but those decisions are for you and your wife alone...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You are on fab. Make her fantasy a reality.
You are married. You should be able to talk with her about this.
Whoever this guy's lady is I'm sure she would be well impressed that her partner had been living a double life without her knowledge.
There are only two people who can address this...and decide on their futures and no matter what anyone here says it seems that how this evolves can only be resolved by those two people.
Unless we have walked in someone else's shoes we should be wary of what we advise the OP. Too many lived are wrecked dreams dashed hopes destroyed families ruined by hiding who we may be from those who may be important to us.
I have no answer for OP but I wish you luck in whatever decisions you take...but those decisions are for you and your wife alone...
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You are on fab. Make her fantasy a reality.
You are married. You should be able to talk with her about this.
Whoever this guy's lady is I'm sure she would be well impressed that her partner had been living a double life without her knowledge.
There are only two people who can address this...and decide on their futures and no matter what anyone here says it seems that how this evolves can only be resolved by those two people.
Unless we have walked in someone else's shoes we should be wary of what we advise the OP. Too many lived are wrecked dreams dashed hopes destroyed families ruined by hiding who we may be from those who may be important to us.
I have no answer for OP but I wish you luck in whatever decisions you take...but those decisions are for you and your wife alone...
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be very honest ( which I always am)
I don't buy your story.
You've been on here for quiet some time. You obviously meet up. You had the perfect opportunity to tell her, to jump into fab world with her and you didn't. You could have deleted your profile made a couples one with her. Again you didnt. You've been interacting more then meeting up. Well I am sure the conversation has come up at some stage. So you know what to do. You know what she is leaning towards. Yet you still havent seized the opportunity.
Think you are trying to look like the good guy justifying being married ans on fab,with the praises you were giving before you explained your situation.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the honest appraisal unicorn... you're not on the money though to be honest.
Just telling her would have had a bad ending and while fab is great fun, it's more a segment of ones life than actual life if you know what I mean.
Of course it crossed my mind to say 'eh there's this place called fab' but what I wanted to know from this thread was, have any couples or singles been in similar positions and what have they done. This isn't a 'story' - I honestly wouldn't waste my time concocting non-sense. Whether you believe me or not is none of my business though - I'm in no way trying to justify being on here while married
And you missed my point by miles.
You had ample opportunity to tell her. You didnt. You are carrying on.
I think you should read my first post again to be fair. I make the point I'm married and on here without her knowledge. It's not that I wanted an opportunity to tell her I am on fab.... Christ that would be the end of my marriage!
I wanted to tell her there's a place where like minded people can engage, chat and maybe make contact as she has intimated she would like to play with another f, but feels it's only a dream / fantasy. "
The longer you stay here arguing with strangers, the more & more likely this will end badly. Someone will tell your partner you were here before as a single guaranteed so either start working a story to cover that or keep it as a fantasy. |
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