FabSwingers.com > Forums > Ireland > Definition of consent
Definition of consent
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"Yes means yes No means no" That's that obvious and de facto definition as it stands The girl on the soundbite was complaining that a man being convinced that consent is in place is a legal defense. | |||
"My god Super flash you enjoy the controversial debates. Think of all the unprosecuted cases and ones that have fallen flat due to lack of clarity. Think of all the differences that have to be clarified in a matter as sensitive as this Think of all the lives destroyed by a system that desperately needs to change Think of all that before you sympathise with a situation that hasn't arisen yet." I enjoy debate certainly, I enjoy logic even more and I most certainly sympathise but that said I'm cautious of what this 'needed change' looks like? | |||
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"Not that simple a black and white topic, I heard the news and some examples were on the table to discuss, like when a guy have sex with a d*unk woman, the act could be persecute as a rape even if she said yes because she wasn't in her full capacity to decide, I think some cases are very tricky for the man, because in all fairness we girls one or more than one had sex bit d*unk and regret next day..But in my view can't be called rape. " It's one reason why I won't go to socials nor have more than a glass if I'm on a meet. If she drinks too much the meet is over. Yes I have stopped a meet once and made sure she got home safely and didn't stay as planned. She was a bit pissed about it but actually thanked me a few days later when reason set back in. | |||
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"My god Super flash you enjoy the controversial debates. Think of all the unprosecuted cases and ones that have fallen flat due to lack of clarity. Think of all the differences that have to be clarified in a matter as sensitive as this Think of all the lives destroyed by a system that desperately needs to change Think of all that before you sympathise with a situation that hasn't arisen yet. I enjoy debate certainly, I enjoy logic even more and I most certainly sympathise but that said I'm cautious of what this 'needed change' looks like? " Clarity is needed for both parties but not an easy task as already mentioned too many grey areas are currently getting through the system. If handled correctly, this is about protecting both sexes. | |||
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"The onus is on the man to get clear copus mentis consent IMO but I haven't read anything or heard any debates lately thrashing out tricky situations so not fully informed" That is the part being condemned by the rape crisis rep... Its an opportunity for the perpetrator to lie but equally the victim can lie too | |||
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"Not that simple a black and white topic, I heard the news and some examples were on the table to discuss, like when a guy have sex with a d*unk woman, the act could be persecute as a rape even if she said yes because she wasn't in her full capacity to decide, I think some cases are very tricky for the man, because in all fairness we girls one or more than one had sex bit d*unk and regret next day..But in my view can't be called rape. It's one reason why I won't go to socials nor have more than a glass if I'm on a meet. If she drinks too much the meet is over. Yes I have stopped a meet once and made sure she got home safely and didn't stay as planned. She was a bit pissed about it but actually thanked me a few days later when reason set back in."  | |||
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"The thing is it's such a tricky situation, if a woman gives consent once does that count for each time after?" I thought the answer to that would be fairly obvious. Why would consenting once mean you have to consent every single time in the future? | |||
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"The thing is it's such a tricky situation, if a woman gives consent once does that count for each time after? I thought the answer to that would be fairly obvious. Why would consenting once mean you have to consent every single time in the future? " I don't know either but it still happens | |||
"The thing is it's such a tricky situation, if a woman gives consent once does that count for each time after? I thought the answer to that would be fairly obvious. Why would consenting once mean you have to consent every single time in the future? " It is patently obvious to everyone 'good' in the world. There isn't a hoard of hapless idiots going around raping people with the best of intentions just crying out for education on the matter  | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app? "Would save on the paperwork for sure! | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app? "in hindsight its a good idea. | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app?
Would save on the paperwork for sure! "A dystopian future No battery on your phone, no sex... and all the who is fucking who data in good hands of course Suggested ads for a truckload of condoms | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app?
Would save on the paperwork for sure! "I mean, we don't have any problem splitting a bill & all parties can pay by NFC so later if all goes well you open the app and everyone ticks. | |||
"But what will this 'needed' law look like given the practical limitations that others here have pointed out?! Louise O'Neill is a menace to society in my eyes....fear mongering and confirmation bias " Why is she a menace to society when the programme gave both male and female a chance to voice their opinions and listen to both sides? If anything, it probably opened the minds of the thousands of young people and gave them food for thought! | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app?
Would save on the paperwork for sure!
A dystopian future
No battery on your phone, no sex... and all the who is fucking who data in good hands of course
Suggested ads for a truckload of condoms "All the app would have to register would be a code unique to your phone, encoded by them both. | |||
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"What is she is d*unk, passes out and he takes her phone..... What if they are so hot for each other that they forget to seal the deal.... Back to square one " Obviously the app would require a unique pin code and a finger print | |||
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"How about a "I consent to sex" app? "I believe it's already been done. | |||
"I think everyone should take responsibity for their own actions. Sometimes people use alcohol as an excuse for their behaviour. A man can be just as d*unk as a woman yet he's in the wrong if any "fumbling" occurs. Mrs news x " Well that's why its tricky cause sometimes people misread situations and some times it is a case of girl crying wolf but sometimes its not but it will always be one persons word against the other so its hard know | |||
"But what will this 'needed' law look like given the practical limitations that others here have pointed out?! Louise O'Neill is a menace to society in my eyes....fear mongering and confirmation bias Why is she a menace to society when the programme gave both male and female a chance to voice their opinions and listen to both sides? If anything, it probably opened the minds of the thousands of young people and gave them food for thought! " She promotes the idea that in one in four men are rapists. That is disinformation of the highest order and shows that she is incapable of objectivity. I don't know the roots of her bias but that type of person can't serve as a role model Have one in four of all the males in your life raped someone?! | |||
"But what will this 'needed' law look like given the practical limitations that others here have pointed out?! Louise O'Neill is a menace to society in my eyes....fear mongering and confirmation bias Why is she a menace to society when the programme gave both male and female a chance to voice their opinions and listen to both sides? If anything, it probably opened the minds of the thousands of young people and gave them food for thought! She promotes the idea that in one in four men are rapists. That is disinformation of the highest order and shows that she is incapable of objectivity. I don't know the roots of her bias but that type of person can't serve as a role model Have one in four of all the males in your life raped someone?! " No she did not. Her research came from the Central Statistics Office and the Rape Crisis Centre so id say she had done her research very well. Painful as this is,most rapes occur by people you know! Ill gladly hold my hand up and say i woke up with my then husband on top of me having sex after a d*unken night out.Did I cry rape? no.I did not, because it was my fault too for not having my faculties about me. When the definition of consent is written into the Sexual Offences Bill, proof will have to be given beyond a reasonable doubt that force had occured. It would take a strong woman or man to put themselves through the trauma of a trial as a joke! | |||
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"She used to called herself a misandrist! Her more public profile has made her tone down the open man hating a bit " Yep, does her Twitter bio still say misandrist? I'm not a fan of hers | |||
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"Not that simple a black and white topic, I heard the news and some examples were on the table to discuss, like when a guy have sex with a d*unk woman, the act could be persecute as a rape even if she said yes because she wasn't in her full capacity to decide, I think some cases are very tricky for the man, because in all fairness we girls one or more than one had sex bit d*unk and regret next day..But in my view can't be called rape. " Ah...so you watch SVU  | |||
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"She used to called herself a misandrist! Her more public profile has made her tone down the open man hating a bit Yep, does her Twitter bio still say misandrist? I'm not a fan of hers " Changed it to 'I love men' with a little tm symbol | |||
"She used to called herself a misandrist! Her more public profile has made her tone down the open man hating a bit " Shes the same age as you and is still learning evolving and changing in herself as time passes, just like you are. To label her as a misandrist now is wrong. I never believed she was a man hater. She has a father, brother,uncles with whom she loves dearly. What she hates is the system in place, that hears mens voices above womens. What shes asking for, is in fact equality. | |||
"She used to called herself a misandrist! Her more public profile has made her tone down the open man hating a bit Shes the same age as you and is still learning evolving and changing in herself as time passes, just like you are. To label her as a misandrist now is wrong. I never believed she was a man hater. She has a father, brother,uncles with whom she loves dearly. What she hates is the system in place, that hears mens voices above womens. What shes asking for, is in fact equality. " I didn't label her, she labelled herself! Equality is alive and well in this country with equal opportunity for all but that's a whole other debate | |||
"I think everyone should take responsibity for their own actions. Sometimes people use alcohol as an excuse for their behaviour. A man can be just as d*unk as a woman yet he's in the wrong if any "fumbling" occurs. Mrs news x " unfortunately society is shouting so much for 'not my fault' and it's been pandered too much creating a non blame society which in turn won't take responsibility because it no longer has to.
Will be interesting to view the stats of current meets both men and women and then after the new rewritten bill. | |||
"Yes means yes No means no" Exactly there is no grey areas even if condom is on and she changes her mind at last sec No means no | |||
"She used to called herself a misandrist! Her more public profile has made her tone down the open man hating a bit Shes the same age as you and is still learning evolving and changing in herself as time passes, just like you are. To label her as a misandrist now is wrong. I never believed she was a man hater. She has a father, brother,uncles with whom she loves dearly. What she hates is the system in place, that hears mens voices above womens. What shes asking for, is in fact equality. I didn't label her, she labelled herself! Equality is alive and well in this country with equal opportunity for all but that's a whole other debate " I said to label her a misandrist NOW is wrong. She has changed her views with growing and learning within herself. We 're all evolving and changing as time passes. Shes no different and you are changing and evolving in yourself too. To be honest with you, if the programme that was aired with her as presenter, prevented 1 rape or 100 rapes, please dont tell me she did a bad thing? I think she opened the eyes of thousands of young people ( college students especially) and gave them the information to be more self aware and mindful. Its been a pleasure debating this with you Op. Theres a glass of wine screaming for me to drink it  | |||
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"She obviously changed it to suit her more public profile and to get more mainstream (rte). Maybe I was a smart kid but I'm fairly sure I knew rape was wrong from a young age and equally 99.9% of us don't need a mockumentary to get the message " Ohhhh god...are you gonna be one of these people that have dog with a bone syndrome? You might have known what rape was from an early age as much as we all do. This was about consent and your opening thread title. Regardless of how you feel about her " mockumentary" and using mainstream media,the fact is , she put thoughts into the minds of kids younger than you! Not to scaremonger them or influence them. She gave the facts and let it sit with them! If thats going to change opinions of consent and rape , then in my view, its a gopd thing. | |||
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"Calling for a logically tricky law on consent that no one can figure out yet we 'need' is the topic Her other views are quite damaging I think, they create a stigma about men and incite disproportionate fear and anger in women... That's where my problem lies The TV stuff was toned down, the columns less so " Im not surprised theres a stigma about men when the facts are there to be seen. 20% of rapes are by men fact! 16% are made by men against men! and i wont go into the statistics about rape against children. So you see, sometimes a building block will crumble under one notion. do i think that all men are rapists? no! and im sure most women dont think so either. the mentality of tarring one with the same brush has moved on so there you go, youre wrong again. | |||
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"Yes means yes No means no Exactly there is no grey areas even if condom is on and she changes her mind at last sec No means no " That's all well and good when the words yes and no are used, but what about when people are caught up in the passion of the moment, or at least one of them thinks they are? I've read feedback from panels of students where they really didn't want to go further but their partner did and they just went along with it since it was the easier option. Similarly others felt it was OK to keep pushing when there was some resistance to their actions, thinking their partner would get into it if they kept going. There was no clear consensus in these groups as to whether that was OK or not. Most people haven't given it much thought so a bit of discussion is always good to get people thinking about it. Wasn't a huge fan of that Asking For It show as it seemed to start off with the conclusion and she mostly tried to affirm her views. But we're talking about it and discussion is always good. | |||
"Calling for a logically tricky law on consent that no one can figure out yet we 'need' is the topic Her other views are quite damaging I think, they create a stigma about men and incite disproportionate fear and anger in women... That's where my problem lies The TV stuff was toned down, the columns less so Im not surprised theres a stigma about men when the facts are there to be seen. 20% of rapes are by men fact! 16% are made by men against men! and i wont go into the statistics about rape against children. So you see, sometimes a building block will crumble under one notion. do i think that all men are rapists? no! and im sure most women dont think so either. the mentality of tarring one with the same brush has moved on so there you go, youre wrong again." Legally 100% of rapes are by men. | |||
"Calling for a logically tricky law on consent that no one can figure out yet we 'need' is the topic Her other views are quite damaging I think, they create a stigma about men and incite disproportionate fear and anger in women... That's where my problem lies The TV stuff was toned down, the columns less so Im not surprised theres a stigma about men when the facts are there to be seen. 20% of rapes are by men fact! 16% are made by men against men! and i wont go into the statistics about rape against children. So you see, sometimes a building block will crumble under one notion. do i think that all men are rapists? no! and im sure most women dont think so either. the mentality of tarring one with the same brush has moved on so there you go, youre wrong again." Telling someone they are wrong only incites a more intrenched and maybe more negative response which isn't usually constructive. Though what I do wish to say is that though I agree that most women don't agree that 'all' men are rapists...what does often come across is the view from the most vocal...and the most vocal would advocate or subscribe to that thinking...those that don't tend not to say anything. ..so it becomes more reinforced in the publics perceptions. .rightly or wrongly. | |||
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"Calling for a logically tricky law on consent that no one can figure out yet we 'need' is the topic Her other views are quite damaging I think, they create a stigma about men and incite disproportionate fear and anger in women... That's where my problem lies The TV stuff was toned down, the columns less so Im not surprised theres a stigma about men when the facts are there to be seen. 20% of rapes are by men fact! 16% are made by men against men! and i wont go into the statistics about rape against children. So you see, sometimes a building block will crumble under one notion. do i think that all men are rapists? no! and im sure most women dont think so either. the mentality of tarring one with the same brush has moved on so there you go, youre wrong again. Legally 100% of rapes are by men. " 
Youd be right, the sad state of affairs is that men are the most likely to commit rape or sexual assault. Youre all deemed to be the brawn of the humam race. Sometimes it comes back to bite the male species, hard. | |||
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"How about a "I consent to sex" app?
I believe it's already been done."Yeah? It's a ridiculous idea JM, you must be wrong. | |||
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"If anyone is still struggling with consent just imagine instead of initiating sex you are making them a cup of tea. You say "hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Ohhhh my god, fuck yes, I would fucking love a cup of tea. Thank you." Then you know they want a cup of tea, but if you say "Hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Hmmmmmmm I'm not really sure" then you could make them a cup of tea, or not, but be aware they may not drink the tea and this is the important part, Don't Make Them Drink The Tea, just cause you made them tea, doesn't mean you are untitled to watch them drink the tea, and if they say "No thank you." Then don't make them tea, don't make them drink tea, don't get annoyed with them for not wanting tea, they just don't want tea They might say "Yes please that's very kind of you" and when the tea arrives, they actually don't want the tea at all, sure that's kind of annoying since you've gone to the effort of making tea, but they are under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don't. Some people change their mind in the time it takes to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk and it's OK for people to change their mind but you are still not untitled to watch them drink it. And if they're unconscious don't make them tea, unconscious people don't want tea, and they can't answer the question "Would you like tea?" because unconscious people don't want tea. Maybe they were conscious when asked them if they wanted tea and they said "Yes" but in the time it took you to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk, they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, and make sure the unconscious person is safe. And this is the Important Part. Don't Make Them Drink The Tea. They said yes before but unconscious people don't want tea. If some one said yes to tea but passed out before they finished it, take the tea away and make sure the unconscious person is safe, because unconscious people don't want tea. If some said yes to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn't mean they want you to make them tea all the time, they don't want you coming around to theirs, unexpectedly, offering to make them tea, forcing them to drink tea, saying "but you wanted tea last week" or to wake up finding you pouring tea down their throats saying " but you wanted tea last night". If you can understand how ludicrous it is to force people to drink tea when they don't want tea and you can understand when people want tea. How hard is it to understand consent. On that note I'm off to make myself a cup of tea" It's always good to give credit where it's due...I've actually heard this guy speak and it was very powerful. It be good to not to take credit for this though very good example as it is. | |||
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"I think "definition of consent" is exactly the right words. When we hear of a rape we usually think of a woman being dragged in a dark alley and being brutally raped. To me, the men that do this are animals and it's the power and control and fear they can exert over the victim that gets them off and not just the act of sex. After that is where the lines begin to blur. And they shouldn't. This is where the law needs to be defined in order to keep up with today's society. As pointed out above, I also was raped by my ex, repeatedly. He would hit me, pin me down and when he was finished he would say "what are you upset for, I seen your face, you loved it" - I was 17 and this was my first relationship and the "man" I lost my virginity to. I had no idea what he was doing was rape. He mentally abused me to the point of convincing me all my friends and family hated me and wanted me dead. So it was easy to believe that it was my fault I hadn't enjoyed the sex. My point being, I was young and uneducated, I had no clue about consent or even having the right to say yes or no. It's a long time since I was in school but I hope that body and self awareness is in the curriculum now a days I don't have any answers but have read this thread with interest. My only hope is that with better education, women will learn to make better decisions about drinking and their friends will look out for them and who they are taking home, and men will learn to see the warning signs when it comes to pulling after a night on the piss. Legally speaking we do need a definition, i can't see there ever being a answer to this though in our life time! " Lolli xxx good girl and well said x | |||
"If anyone is still struggling with consent just imagine instead of initiating sex you are making them a cup of tea. You say "hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Ohhhh my god, fuck yes, I would fucking love a cup of tea. Thank you." Then you know they want a cup of tea, but if you say "Hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Hmmmmmmm I'm not really sure" then you could make them a cup of tea, or not, but be aware they may not drink the tea and this is the important part, Don't Make Them Drink The Tea, just cause you made them tea, doesn't mean you are untitled to watch them drink the tea, and if they say "No thank you." Then don't make them tea, don't make them drink tea, don't get annoyed with them for not wanting tea, they just don't want tea They might say "Yes please that's very kind of you" and when the tea arrives, they actually don't want the tea at all, sure that's kind of annoying since you've gone to the effort of making tea, but they are under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don't. Some people change their mind in the time it takes to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk and it's OK for people to change their mind but you are still not untitled to watch them drink it. And if they're unconscious don't make them tea, unconscious people don't want tea, and they can't answer the question "Would you like tea?" because unconscious people don't want tea. Maybe they were conscious when asked them if they wanted tea and they said "Yes" but in the time it took you to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk, they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, and make sure the unconscious person is safe. And this is the Important Part. Don't Make Them Drink The Tea. They said yes before but unconscious people don't want tea. If some one said yes to tea but passed out before they finished it, take the tea away and make sure the unconscious person is safe, because unconscious people don't want tea. If some said yes to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn't mean they want you to make them tea all the time, they don't want you coming around to theirs, unexpectedly, offering to make them tea, forcing them to drink tea, saying "but you wanted tea last week" or to wake up finding you pouring tea down their throats saying " but you wanted tea last night". If you can understand how ludicrous it is to force people to drink tea when they don't want tea and you can understand when people want tea. How hard is it to understand consent. On that note I'm off to make myself a cup of tea" I love this analogy | |||
"I think "definition of consent" is exactly the right words. When we hear of a rape we usually think of a woman being dragged in a dark alley and being brutally raped. To me, the men that do this are animals and it's the power and control and fear they can exert over the victim that gets them off and not just the act of sex. After that is where the lines begin to blur. And they shouldn't. This is where the law needs to be defined in order to keep up with today's society. As pointed out above, I also was raped by my ex, repeatedly. He would hit me, pin me down and when he was finished he would say "what are you upset for, I seen your face, you loved it" - I was 17 and this was my first relationship and the "man" I lost my virginity to. I had no idea what he was doing was rape. He mentally abused me to the point of convincing me all my friends and family hated me and wanted me dead. So it was easy to believe that it was my fault I hadn't enjoyed the sex. My point being, I was young and uneducated, I had no clue about consent or even having the right to say yes or no. It's a long time since I was in school but I hope that body and self awareness is in the curriculum now a days I don't have any answers but have read this thread with interest. My only hope is that with better education, women will learn to make better decisions about drinking and their friends will look out for them and who they are taking home, and men will learn to see the warning signs when it comes to pulling after a night on the piss. Legally speaking we do need a definition, i can't see there ever being a answer to this though in our life time! " Such a brave, raw, honest post Lollipop. So sorry that you went through that and that level of manipulation. I think re evaluation of our laws to meet the needs of our society is detrimental. Education is the key. As mother to male and female, I have made it an absolute part of talking to my crew about in an open and brutally honest manner to make sure it's not a taboo subject but one that is held in the seriousness it deserves. | |||
"How about a "I consent to sex" app? "If she's on her phone while you're having sex, you may not have her full attention! | |||
"If anyone is still struggling with consent just imagine instead of initiating sex you are making them a cup of tea. You say "hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Ohhhh my god, fuck yes, I would fucking love a cup of tea. Thank you." Then you know they want a cup of tea, but if you say "Hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Hmmmmmmm I'm not really sure" then you could make them a cup of tea, or not, but be aware they may not drink the tea and this is the important part, Don't Make Them Drink The Tea, just cause you made them tea, doesn't mean you are untitled to watch them drink the tea, and if they say "No thank you." Then don't make them tea, don't make them drink tea, don't get annoyed with them for not wanting tea, they just don't want tea They might say "Yes please that's very kind of you" and when the tea arrives, they actually don't want the tea at all, sure that's kind of annoying since you've gone to the effort of making tea, but they are under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don't. Some people change their mind in the time it takes to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk and it's OK for people to change their mind but you are still not untitled to watch them drink it. And if they're unconscious don't make them tea, unconscious people don't want tea, and they can't answer the question "Would you like tea?" because unconscious people don't want tea. Maybe they were conscious when asked them if they wanted tea and they said "Yes" but in the time it took you to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk, they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, and make sure the unconscious person is safe. And this is the Important Part. Don't Make Them Drink The Tea. They said yes before but unconscious people don't want tea. If some one said yes to tea but passed out before they finished it, take the tea away and make sure the unconscious person is safe, because unconscious people don't want tea. If some said yes to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn't mean they want you to make them tea all the time, they don't want you coming around to theirs, unexpectedly, offering to make them tea, forcing them to drink tea, saying "but you wanted tea last week" or to wake up finding you pouring tea down their throats saying " but you wanted tea last night". If you can understand how ludicrous it is to force people to drink tea when they don't want tea and you can understand when people want tea. How hard is it to understand consent. On that note I'm off to make myself a cup of tea" Love this and refer to it often, it seems silly at first but actually makes perfect sense! | |||
"Yes means yes No means no Exactly there is no grey areas even if condom is on and she changes her mind at last sec No means no " Well clearly those black and white scenarios are not the ones being discussed here | |||
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"I think "definition of consent" is exactly the right words. When we hear of a rape we usually think of a woman being dragged in a dark alley and being brutally raped. To me, the men that do this are animals and it's the power and control and fear they can exert over the victim that gets them off and not just the act of sex. After that is where the lines begin to blur. And they shouldn't. This is where the law needs to be defined in order to keep up with today's society. As pointed out above, I also was raped by my ex, repeatedly. He would hit me, pin me down and when he was finished he would say "what are you upset for, I seen your face, you loved it" - I was 17 and this was my first relationship and the "man" I lost my virginity to. I had no idea what he was doing was rape. He mentally abused me to the point of convincing me all my friends and family hated me and wanted me dead. So it was easy to believe that it was my fault I hadn't enjoyed the sex. My point being, I was young and uneducated, I had no clue about consent or even having the right to say yes or no. It's a long time since I was in school but I hope that body and self awareness is in the curriculum now a days I don't have any answers but have read this thread with interest. My only hope is that with better education, women will learn to make better decisions about drinking and their friends will look out for them and who they are taking home, and men will learn to see the warning signs when it comes to pulling after a night on the piss. Legally speaking we do need a definition, i can't see there ever being a answer to this though in our life time! " Thank you for sharing Lolli. XX  | |||
"If anyone is still struggling with consent just imagine instead of initiating sex you are making them a cup of tea. You say "hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Ohhhh my god, fuck yes, I would fucking love a cup of tea. Thank you." Then you know they want a cup of tea, but if you say "Hey would you like a cup of tea?" and they're like "Hmmmmmmm I'm not really sure" then you could make them a cup of tea, or not, but be aware they may not drink the tea and this is the important part, Don't Make Them Drink The Tea, just cause you made them tea, doesn't mean you are untitled to watch them drink the tea, and if they say "No thank you." Then don't make them tea, don't make them drink tea, don't get annoyed with them for not wanting tea, they just don't want tea They might say "Yes please that's very kind of you" and when the tea arrives, they actually don't want the tea at all, sure that's kind of annoying since you've gone to the effort of making tea, but they are under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don't. Some people change their mind in the time it takes to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk and it's OK for people to change their mind but you are still not untitled to watch them drink it. And if they're unconscious don't make them tea, unconscious people don't want tea, and they can't answer the question "Would you like tea?" because unconscious people don't want tea. Maybe they were conscious when asked them if they wanted tea and they said "Yes" but in the time it took you to boil the kettle, brew the tea and add the milk, they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, and make sure the unconscious person is safe. And this is the Important Part. Don't Make Them Drink The Tea. They said yes before but unconscious people don't want tea. If some one said yes to tea but passed out before they finished it, take the tea away and make sure the unconscious person is safe, because unconscious people don't want tea. If some said yes to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn't mean they want you to make them tea all the time, they don't want you coming around to theirs, unexpectedly, offering to make them tea, forcing them to drink tea, saying "but you wanted tea last week" or to wake up finding you pouring tea down their throats saying " but you wanted tea last night". If you can understand how ludicrous it is to force people to drink tea when they don't want tea and you can understand when people want tea. How hard is it to understand consent. On that note I'm off to make myself a cup of tea" Well said. | |||
"I think "definition of consent" is exactly the right words. When we hear of a rape we usually think of a woman being dragged in a dark alley and being brutally raped. To me, the men that do this are animals and it's the power and control and fear they can exert over the victim that gets them off and not just the act of sex. After that is where the lines begin to blur. And they shouldn't. This is where the law needs to be defined in order to keep up with today's society. As pointed out above, I also was raped by my ex, repeatedly. He would hit me, pin me down and when he was finished he would say "what are you upset for, I seen your face, you loved it" - I was 17 and this was my first relationship and the "man" I lost my virginity to. I had no idea what he was doing was rape. He mentally abused me to the point of convincing me all my friends and family hated me and wanted me dead. So it was easy to believe that it was my fault I hadn't enjoyed the sex. My point being, I was young and uneducated, I had no clue about consent or even having the right to say yes or no. It's a long time since I was in school but I hope that body and self awareness is in the curriculum now a days I don't have any answers but have read this thread with interest. My only hope is that with better education, women will learn to make better decisions about drinking and their friends will look out for them and who they are taking home, and men will learn to see the warning signs when it comes to pulling after a night on the piss. Legally speaking we do need a definition, i can't see there ever being a answer to this though in our life time! " That was painful to read lolli. Consent is one of the most important things in my world. My father was abusive so I got a good education from my mother and her best friend, who both survived abuse. I was raped by a priest when I was a kid and while I couldn't remember the rapes until recently they helped shape my world view. I grew up to be a person who gets what they want. I met my wife 20 years ago and her personality fits mine to perfection. I learned that I was practicing bdsm long before I could express what we were practicing and i have always tried to find a balance between getting what I want and making sure she wants it too. Swinging is a great example. We are 3 years talking about it. She's unsure if she wants to go ahead and try it. Under our bdsm agreement I have full control of sex. I can organise a threesome tonight. She will do her bit and I have consent. But I need active consent. I need her to want this. If she says no. I don't want to do this any more, then we are gone from her. I cannot hold something over her head and say we are doing this or else I'm leaving. It can't be, aww sweety but you agreed before. If she's tied to the bed and changes her mind as the other woman starts to kiss her, my wife needs to be ok to say stop and know that nothing will happen and that's it's ok. It has to be her choice, free from pressure because if it's not then im a cunt like the one who raped me | |||
"Yes means yes No means no" I asked her if she wanted to have sex and she didn't say no so we did it. She enjoyed it. Now she says it's rape. Here is what's wrong with this. In general people find it hard to say no, Some people find it very difficult to say no. Their personality is such that they don't want conflict or to displease or be rude. If the definition of consent is yes is yes, then that eliminates this personality blindspot. It's possible to orgasm and still be raped. An orgasm is a physical response to a set of stimuli. It's not mutually exclusive. One of the biggest shames rape victims feel is over any sexual pleasure they felt because of the rape. It's a horrible internal conflict | |||
