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Lord Bannside
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I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?  |
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"I think this country doesn't need programmes of this nature to have a future we must forget the past"
I'd agree to a certain extent, but the truth about who did what may make o difference to a lot of people. I wouldn't class a TV interview as necessarily being the truth though. |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all? "
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol  |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I think this country doesn't need programmes of this nature to have a future we must forget the past"
What a load of ballix.....to move forward one has to learn from the past !! To do that , you must revisit it , and learn from the mistakes . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol "
Was that not Marty? |
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?"
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership. |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?"
No fair does to Marty,he's proud n honest that he was ...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership. "
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership.
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that"
He had that selective memory thing again... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership.
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that
He had that selective memory thing again... "
I think they learn that in politicians school |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership.
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that
He had that selective memory thing again...
I think they learn that in politicians school "
Minds me of a boi in ere |
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership.
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that"
Didn't he admit to being second in command in Derry in' 72? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I loved last week the way he repeatedly said "that doesn't sound like something I'd have said" to loads of stuff that he had actually said, and it wasn't even the most extreme stuff. Has he lost the plot, or is he trying to rewrite history somewhat, so that he's remembered more kindly ? He now reckons discrimination against catholics was wrong, gerrymandering was wrong, bloody Sunday was wrong , etc. What's going on at all?
He did look unsure or unsteady on points last week M....problem is everyone's trying to rewrite history atm !! Gerry can't mind being in the 'Ra ffs lol
Was that not Marty?
No.. Marty is fairly open about his membership.
Is it he just won't admit how high up he is/was? I have memory of him denying something like that
Didn't he admit to being second in command in Derry in' 72?"
I thought he denied that? I could be wrong though. Did he also mot deny knowing where some of the disappeared went to or was that Gerry? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Didn't Adams tweet about playing with rubber ducks in the bath a while ago? That lad isn't telling the full story.
plus, its impossible to say Gerry Adams without putting on a northern accent. |
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"
I thought he denied that? I could be wrong though. Did he also mot deny knowing where some of the disappeared went to or was that Gerry?"
He admitted at the Saville enquiry that he had been second in command in Derry at that time. To be honest, I don't imagine that the chief of staff of an organisation like the IRA would be likely to know where all the bodies were buried in any case. |
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"Didn't Adams tweet about playing with rubber ducks in the bath a while ago? That lad isn't telling the full story.
plus, its impossible to say Gerry Adams without putting on a northern accent."
Who is though? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I thought he denied that? I could be wrong though. Did he also mot deny knowing where some of the disappeared went to or was that Gerry?
He admitted at the Saville enquiry that he had been second in command in Derry at that time. To be honest, I don't imagine that the chief of staff of an organisation like the IRA would be likely to know where all the bodies were buried in any case. "
Forgot about that admission at saville enquiry 
He probably doesn't know exactly where all bodies are but might know someone who does so they could narrow it down |
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I thought he denied that? I could be wrong though. Did he also mot deny knowing where some of the disappeared went to or was that Gerry?
He admitted at the Saville enquiry that he had been second in command in Derry at that time. To be honest, I don't imagine that the chief of staff of an organisation like the IRA would be likely to know where all the bodies were buried in any case.
Forgot about that admission at saville enquiry
He probably doesn't know exactly where all bodies are but might know someone who does so they could narrow it down"
I suspect that most republicans would love the whole disappeared thing to go away, and the only way that will happen is for the remaining bodies to be found. For that reason, I suspect the leadership will probably have already given as much info as they can, but there may be people who still have info that they haven't given for whatever reason. It's possible that some are now "dissidents", or anti the Gerry /Martin leadership. As well as that, many people who were involved 40 years ago may now be dead, and these events most likely took place in the dead of night, in the most remote places possible, and with no notes taken on locations for obvious reasons.
. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's too late for such deep thinking though!  "
Indeed it is, what did you think of the programme tonight though? Smacked a little of sour grapes which is ironic given his previous stance of keep infighting in house |
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"It's too late for such deep thinking though!
Indeed it is, what did you think of the programme tonight though? Smacked a little of sour grapes which is ironic given his previous stance of keep infighting in house"
Yes, it's hard to know what to make of it. When he retired he reckoned he was doing it off his own accord, so it's very hard to know what to make of his accusations now, a few years later. If suspect that, as in most cases, somewhere between the two versions lies the truth. Eileen certainly got the boot into Iris, with her comment about sleaze.....
Ah, memories of that classic line... "are you trying to seduce me, Mrs Robinson?" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Overall, the interview was watchable, but it was hardly cutting edge stuff. Most of the more controversial stuff was glossed over, but sure, that's life! "
Definitely, after the media hype I was expecting a lot more confrontational discussion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't want any of my kids knowing about the ballix that happened and the difference between Catholic and protestant. Randy revisiting this past to learn from it surely costs a lot of money. Money better spent on hospitals and people who actually need it |
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"In the north of course"
St Patrick 's day is a pretty busy one for Dublin hospitals too. Some of it to do with huge crowds in the city, some of it to do with the ridiculous level of alcohol consumption in the day, but very little of it to do with remembering the past! |
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"Really I disagree remembering the past whether it's the 12th easter St Patrick days puts people in hospitals "
Given the rumpus that rerouting a few parades can cause, I can't wait to see what happens when all talk of remembering the past is done away with. Fun and games for all! |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"In the north of course
St Patrick 's day is a pretty busy one for Dublin hospitals too. Some of it to do with huge crowds in the city, some of it to do with the ridiculous level of alcohol consumption in the day, but very little of it to do with remembering the past! "
Exactly Mick , we go to Slemish and climb the mountain ...St Patrick's a patron saint for all . |
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"In the north of course
St Patrick 's day is a pretty busy one for Dublin hospitals too. Some of it to do with huge crowds in the city, some of it to do with the ridiculous level of alcohol consumption in the day, but very little of it to do with remembering the past!
Exactly Mick , we go to Slemish and climb the mountain ...St Patrick's a patron saint for all ."
What did St Patrick say when he was driving the snakes out of Ireland?
.
.
.
.
.
He turned around and said... "Are yiz alright in the back there lads?" |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"In the north of course
St Patrick 's day is a pretty busy one for Dublin hospitals too. Some of it to do with huge crowds in the city, some of it to do with the ridiculous level of alcohol consumption in the day, but very little of it to do with remembering the past!
Exactly Mick , we go to Slemish and climb the mountain ...St Patrick's a patron saint for all .
What did St Patrick say when he was driving the snakes out of Ireland?
.
.
.
.
.
He turned around and said... "Are yiz alright in the back there lads?" "
Now that's hissssssstory right there folks  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Very good at trying to put words in the old mouth randy. What I'm saying is if the north ditched all parades easter and the 12th slowly but surely through generations people would forget what these things represent. I'm not asking people to forget culture but it's the glorification and one upmanship that is poisonous and for these very reasons the north may never move forward. As for the politicians they just tell their respective communities what they want to hear. If we are ever really going to move forward no flags no parades integrated housing and no wasting money on complete bollocks and invest in hospitals public services and social development. |
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"Very good at trying to put words in the old mouth randy. What I'm saying is if the north ditched all parades easter and the 12th slowly but surely through generations people would forget what these things represent. I'm not asking people to forget culture but it's the glorification and one upmanship that is poisonous and for these very reasons the north may never move forward. As for the politicians they just tell their respective communities what they want to hear. If we are ever really going to move forward no flags no parades integrated housing and no wasting money on complete bollocks and invest in hospitals public services and social development."
Who knows, it might work to a certain extent, but who's going to vote for that? It's pretty much a non runner, so why not try the alternative which is a truth commission of some sort, get it all out in the open for once and for all, and then be done with it? |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"Very good at trying to put words in the old mouth randy. What I'm saying is if the north ditched all parades easter and the 12th slowly but surely through generations people would forget what these things represent. I'm not asking people to forget culture but it's the glorification and one upmanship that is poisonous and for these very reasons the north may never move forward. As for the politicians they just tell their respective communities what they want to hear. If we are ever really going to move forward no flags no parades integrated housing and no wasting money on complete bollocks and invest in hospitals public services and social development.
Who knows, it might work to a certain extent, but who's going to vote for that? It's pretty much a non runner, so why not try the alternative which is a truth commission of some sort, get it all out in the open for once and for all, and then be done with it? "
Exactly  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The same people that voted for the good Friday agreement would vote for that"
And look how well that turned out, we now have a devolved government running for several years. I think a truth commission would be a good idea as would give closure to a lot of people. The issue would be where do you draw the line |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm all for the truth commission but I think it will come down to what happens to the teller of the truth. I wouldn't come forward of I knew anything if I was going to jail. Immunity from prison needs to be part of it |
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"I'm all for the truth commission but I think it will come down to what happens to the teller of the truth. I wouldn't come forward of I knew anything if I was going to jail. Immunity from prison needs to be part of it"
Yep, if getting the truth is the priority, immunity is essential. |
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"There are so many people have strongly held views that expressing them here is likely to wind them up/upset people. This probably isn't an appropriate place to have the discussion
"
It's been going alright so far, thanks very much! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are so many people have strongly held views that expressing them here is likely to wind them up/upset people. This probably isn't an appropriate place to have the discussion
It's been going alright so far, thanks very much! "
I was thinking that too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are so many people have strongly held views that expressing them here is likely to wind them up/upset people. This probably isn't an appropriate place to have the discussion
"
the forum thread has been OK but these programmes open old wounds |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
Ok. We should not have immunity for murders until they rot in hell. The peoplet that support them are just as guilty. People that vote for scrum that support terrorism are guilty. We don't have peace. Until people don't have to be circumspect about their armed forces activities there is no peace.
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"Ok. We should not have immunity for murders until they rot in hell. The peoplet that support them are just as guilty. People that vote for scrum that support terrorism are guilty. We don't have peace. Until people don't have to be circumspect about their armed forces activities there is no peace.
"
By terrorism, you mean...? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok. We should not have immunity for murders until they rot in hell. The peoplet that support them are just as guilty. People that vote for scrum that support terrorism are guilty. We don't have peace. Until people don't have to be circumspect about their armed forces activities there is no peace.
By terrorism, you mean...? "
I actually read it as being part of army, police etc over here.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But it's not just the disappeared that people have problems with on both sides. State collusion, various bombings and shootings all have affected people in the similar manner to the disappeared |
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By *avie tCouple
over a year ago
otherside of nowhere |
the truth commission worked in south africa has to be the best way forward and then the familys of the disapeared would know nothing was being held back and that locations had simply been forgotten and then they might have some closure |
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"But it's not just the disappeared that people have problems with on both sides. State collusion, various bombings and shootings all have affected people in the similar manner to the disappeared"
I agree, and these issues have already been allowed to fester for too long, giving a sense of grievance to some that seek to use it for their own nefarious purposes. I believe these things need to be brought out into the open do that they can finally be dealt with and moved on from. Yes, it will be difficult for many people, but ignoring them is also difficult for a lot of people. |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"I think the past is best left behind unless it's issues like the dissapeared etc "
But that's being selective and leaving so many more issues out...that will cause more trouble than it solves |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But where do you stop"
That's what I mentioned earlier, where would the line be drawn. Also as Mick said if there was not immunity, not much truth would come out and therefore give closure unfortunately. I think the idea in theory is great and would help but in practice could never work  |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
Should the murder of a Catholic member of the Irish Guards in 1969, allegedly by a leading present politician, in Londonderry not be investigated?
Should security force collusion with the UVF not be investigated?
I believe they should.
Ignore the past fifty years at our peril. |
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By *avie tCouple
over a year ago
otherside of nowhere |
"There are so many people have strongly held views that expressing them here is likely to wind them up/upset people. This probably isn't an appropriate place to have the discussion
"
i disagree its great to see a real topic on here a lot of ppl can tire of the kiss fuck pass thread cause if their on here most are doing that already in real life |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"Should the murder of a Catholic member of the Irish Guards in 1969, allegedly by a leading present politician, in Londonderry not be investigated?
Should security force collusion with the UVF not be investigated?
I believe they should.
Ignore the past fifty years at our peril."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"That brings us nicely back to the op and Mr P.
Ulster Resistance would surely merit a mention somewhere along the line as well! "
I preferred the fetching red berets of the Third Force myself  |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back "
It is a secret....hence the collusion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back "
No it won't bring them back but that closure may help them move on |
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"That brings us nicely back to the op and Mr P.
Ulster Resistance would surely merit a mention somewhere along the line as well!
I preferred the fetching red berets of the Third Force myself "
They were indeed a beautiful contrast to the glistening white firearms licences! |
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"It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back "
"Collusion on both sides" is slightly misleading as well. Who was colluding with republicans? So far, we have a suggestion from the Smithwick enquiry that "on balance of probability" there may have been collusion, but there no evidence to support it. |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"That brings us nicely back to the op and Mr P.
Ulster Resistance would surely merit a mention somewhere along the line as well!
I preferred the fetching red berets of the Third Force myself
They were indeed a beautiful contrast to the glistening white firearms licences! "
I had a pitch fork....couldnt afford a license |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back
"Collusion on both sides" is slightly misleading as well. Who was colluding with republicans? So far, we have a suggestion from the Smithwick enquiry that "on balance of probability" there may have been collusion, but there no evidence to support it. "
That's just one incident , there maybe more Mick , I'd hazard a guess and say there is plenty . Even down to patrols of Gaurds leaving a certain border area at the time a 'job' is on...or activity from an agent going unchecked. |
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"
They were indeed a beautiful contrast to the glistening white firearms licences!
I had a pitch fork....couldnt afford a license "
Was it licenced though?
Did you have the military style fatigues that Peter had though?  |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"
They were indeed a beautiful contrast to the glistening white firearms licences!
I had a pitch fork....couldnt afford a license
Was it licenced though?
Did you have the military style fatigues that Peter had though? "
Had it blessed by the young farmers so it kinda was.....
No they made my ass look big |
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"It's no secret there was collusion on both sides but what does proving it achieve apart from closure for the families who already knew the answer digging up the past won't bring their loved ones back
"Collusion on both sides" is slightly misleading as well. Who was colluding with republicans? So far, we have a suggestion from the Smithwick enquiry that "on balance of probability" there may have been collusion, but there no evidence to support it.
That's just one incident , there maybe more Mick , I'd hazard a guess and say there is plenty . Even down to patrols of Gaurds leaving a certain border area at the time a 'job' is on...or activity from an agent going unchecked."
There's bound to have been a certain amount of "sympathy" here and there, but by and large, there really wasn't very much of it. I read a comment somewhere from a well known politician up north who said that he felt safer north of the border than he did in the border area in the south. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My guess is that now both 'sides' are so busy running their petrol retailing empires that they couldn't make time to go over the past even if they wanted to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think this country doesn't need programmes of this nature to have a future we must forget the past"
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it! But I get what you're sayin. We need to move on from the past and the dinosaurs that ruled it ie big Ian Paisley. |
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"My guess is that now both 'sides' are so busy running their petrol retailing empires that they couldn't make time to go over the past even if they wanted to. "
Hmm.. Does that include the British government? |
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If you never learn from mistakes your doomed to repeat them ...it's quite simple to understand , isn't it ?? 