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By *astello OP Woman 7 days ago
Far far away |
Looking at the details of this where the son killed his father after a mental health episode. Once again brought home the gaps in the mental health system in Ireland. Hotel staff did their best but the son was released home from psych care only to kill his father at the hotel. Many lives are now ruined. How this could have been prevented lays responsibility on the health service where a clearly unwell patient was allowed out in a psychotic state to the care of his father.
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It is not really a case of the son being released from a psych ward because realistically in Ireland at present you sign yourself into a psych ward and you sign yourself out. It used to be a case family members or Doctors could sign you in our have you released,now that lies solely with the unwell person. Hospitals have no power to keep you. It needs to change but how?years ago people got signed in for nothing now it is their choice but thats not right neither in some cases |
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By *aseylee324Couple 7 days ago
Valley of Squinting Windows |
"It is not really a case of the son being released from a psych ward because realistically in Ireland at present you sign yourself into a psych ward and you sign yourself out. It used to be a case family members or Doctors could sign you in our have you released,now that lies solely with the unwell person. Hospitals have no power to keep you. It needs to change but how?years ago people got signed in for nothing now it is their choice but thats not right neither in some cases"
We come from a history of long-term incarceration at the state's whim, it's a dangerous road. Mental health assessment isn't black and white. |
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While most people who go to hospital are indeed doing so on a voluntary basis, it is not that complicated for someone to be admitted against their will.
There are 3 stages:
-Application
-Medical assessment
-Psychiatric assessment
___________
Application
A concerned person applies to a medical professional (usually a GP) to have you assessed. The concerned person must have seen you in the last 48 hours.
This concerned person must be over 18 and one of the following:
-a relative or spouse
-an authorised officer who is an employee of the HSE
-a member of the Gardaí
-a concerned member of the public -any other concerned person
__________________
Medical Assessment
The medical professional must examine you within 24 hours of getting the application. They may recommend that you are admitted to hospital.
______________________
Psychiatric Assessment
A consultant psychiatrist in the hospital will examine you within 24 hours. If they decide you need to be admitted and you're not willing to stay, you will be admitted against your will. |
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I did the Suicide Awareness course run by HSE a few years ago. We played out a few scenarios in groups. Generally the aim was to eventually get the patient to casualty, where they could be dealt with. However this is where the chain of care broke down. Usually, the patient was released, after they calmed down, and given a referral to psychiatric care, "sometime" in the future. Our mental health services dont work, neither do they work in more affluent European countries like Germany and France. I feel very sad for families who have to deal with this. |
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"While most people who go to hospital are indeed doing so on a voluntary basis, it is not that complicated for someone to be admitted against their will.
There are 3 stages:
-Application
-Medical assessment
-Psychiatric assessment
___________
Application
A concerned person applies to a medical professional (usually a GP) to have you assessed. The concerned person must have seen you in the last 48 hours.
This concerned person must be over 18 and one of the following:
-a relative or spouse
-an authorised officer who is an employee of the HSE
-a member of the Gardaí
-a concerned member of the public -any other concerned person
__________________
Medical Assessment
The medical professional must examine you within 24 hours of getting the application. They may recommend that you are admitted to hospital.
______________________
Psychiatric Assessment
A consultant psychiatrist in the hospital will examine you within 24 hours. If they decide you need to be admitted and you're not willing to stay, you will be admitted against your will."
How about leaving the admission? What are the steps? |
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By *rRiosMan 7 days ago
dublin |
"While most people who go to hospital are indeed doing so on a voluntary basis, it is not that complicated for someone to be admitted against their will.
There are 3 stages:
-Application
-Medical assessment
-Psychiatric assessment
___________
Application
A concerned person applies to a medical professional (usually a GP) to have you assessed. The concerned person must have seen you in the last 48 hours.
This concerned person must be over 18 and one of the following:
-a relative or spouse
-an authorised officer who is an employee of the HSE
-a member of the Gardaí
-a concerned member of the public -any other concerned person
__________________
Medical Assessment
The medical professional must examine you within 24 hours of getting the application. They may recommend that you are admitted to hospital.
______________________
Psychiatric Assessment
A consultant psychiatrist in the hospital will examine you within 24 hours. If they decide you need to be admitted and you're not willing to stay, you will be admitted against your will."
What if the person refuses to be assessed? |
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Not to take away from the helpful advice given above but yeah, I thought they are reporting that both are American and had just traveled to Ireland so I dont see the link to the Irish mental health service which don’t get me wrong, needs improvement. |
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By *aseylee324Couple 7 days ago
Valley of Squinting Windows |
"While most people who go to hospital are indeed doing so on a voluntary basis, it is not that complicated for someone to be admitted against their will.
There are 3 stages:
-Application
-Medical assessment
-Psychiatric assessment
___________
Application
A concerned person applies to a medical professional (usually a GP) to have you assessed. The concerned person must have seen you in the last 48 hours.
This concerned person must be over 18 and one of the following:
-a relative or spouse
-an authorised officer who is an employee of the HSE
-a member of the Gardaí
-a concerned member of the public -any other concerned person
__________________
Medical Assessment
The medical professional must examine you within 24 hours of getting the application. They may recommend that you are admitted to hospital.
______________________
Psychiatric Assessment
A consultant psychiatrist in the hospital will examine you within 24 hours. If they decide you need to be admitted and you're not willing to stay, you will be admitted against your will.
What if the person refuses to be assessed? "
You can definitely be admitted without your consent and detained, this happened twice to a friend of mine who suffered from bipolar disorder - she took her own life a couple of years ago |
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By *aseylee324Couple 7 days ago
Valley of Squinting Windows |
"I think, we can't control every situation: particularly when the victim and perpetrator were unknown to the system. Very sad for all involved. "
I agree, there will always be those who fall through the cracks. Involuntary incarceration as a matter of course is hardly desirable and harks back to sinister practices of the past. |
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By *astello OP Woman 7 days ago
Far far away |
Yes the case l was referring to in my original post was the current US tourists. The premises is the same, a seriously unwell patient was assessed, left and subsequently killed his father. I understand the rights of patients but it's isn't the dark ages now. Yet this scenario happens so many times, patient is released without due care and left to fend for themselves. Expecting an American tourist to arrive and try to manage a unwell person without knowledge of the Irish healthcare system. Where is the duty of care to the community. Would we think differently if he killed a hotel staff member instead. I guess this once again shows how we talk mental health supports and yet in crises nothing happens. Another statistic. |
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"They came here on holiday.
It was his Father.
He must have had a known mental disease.
How can this be laid on the Irish system?"
They didn't come here on holiday
The son was travelling around Europe and the father realised he was unwell and flew over to look after him
As far as I know everything else is just speculation until all the facts come out
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What happened was unfortunate, and we may never know the true circumstances surrounding the case. For all of us out there its important to have some level awareness around mental wellbeing.
I deliver free a course to clubs and societies on mental awareness and becoming mental health first aiders. ( to be clear this does not make you a therapist only gives you tools and support to spot or note certain tendancies) if any one thinks it could be a benefit to their, club, society or community PM me
( it will not say Crazynipplelover on their certificate)
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"Yes the case l was referring to in my original post was the current US tourists. The premises is the same, a seriously unwell patient was assessed, left and subsequently killed his father. I understand the rights of patients but it's isn't the dark ages now. Yet this scenario happens so many times, patient is released without due care and left to fend for themselves. Expecting an American tourist to arrive and try to manage a unwell person without knowledge of the Irish healthcare system. Where is the duty of care to the community. Would we think differently if he killed a hotel staff member instead. I guess this once again shows how we talk mental health supports and yet in crises nothing happens. Another statistic. "
No matter what controls and systems are in place at some point in the care of anyone a choice will have to be made. Sometimes these choices will be wrong.
But mental state is not a straight line between when someone is having an episode and when they are well and no danger to themselves.
I'm not sure I'd you have more information than has been reported but I haven't seen enough published about the case to make any fully formed decision on if there was a lack of duty of care or not. |
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