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A United Ireland
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I don't want to clog up the coolock thread.
I have a question to those who are strongly in favor of a United Ireland.
Why do you feel so strongly about it?
I'm asking because when this topic comes up I am so indifferent to it the motivations other than historical claims escape me |
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I'd like to see it for purely practical purposes. Like having the same currency, phone services when we travel around this small country. And also for sentimental reasons, so we can recognise and embrace our common heritage. |
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I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
|
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
"
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me. |
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For me, mainly for political reasons.
When it comes to politics, British people have a peasant nature. They will always vote for some silver spooned toad. When you look at the absolute state of politician's within the Tory party and how they've acted towards Europe and Ireland recently. Like spoiled kids in a playground.
The British will vote them in again, in time, and we should be rid of an connection or need to cooperate with them on issues that concern this island. Northern Ireland can no longer be used as leverage or as their play thing! |
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"Will we get an NHS and free GP care under a united Ireland? I can cancel my VHI then."
Sláintecare, as agreed by the Oireachtas, is designed to lead eventually to free GP care. The NHS is going in the other direction at the moment with a two tier system now emerging where health insurance is now a growing business in the north. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me."
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me."
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward. |
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"Will we get an NHS and free GP care under a united Ireland? I can cancel my VHI then.
Sláintecare, as agreed by the Oireachtas, is designed to lead eventually to free GP care. The NHS is going in the other direction at the moment with a two tier system now emerging where health insurance is now a growing business in the north. "
Hopefully Labour will reverse the death by a thousand cuts that is killing the NHS |
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"We can barely manage the country we have as it is.
What makes people think we will be better off if we add a load more shit to the pile.
"
I'm not sure how you mean we can barely manage.
We're going to have a surplus of about 8 billion this year, just slightly less than last year and a little bit up from the previous year. That's three years of a budget surplus. We're doing exceptionally well in terms of government income.
The management of it is a while different issue. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward. "
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid.. 
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
|
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All the money in the UK is directed to England, the south of England at that! There has never been a desire to make NI viable, and certainly never to align it with ROI.
This is not by accident, it's strategy. NI was only ever required for it's strategic position. But even that is no longer required.
There is no reason NI would grow and prosper in a UI. These figures of €10-15b a year are by design. A choice of the British government. In reality, it's a failure of British government. Which those in the north of England and Scotland can attest to |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
"
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion. |
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"NI haven't had had a surplus budget since the 1960s."
The Stormont executive doesn't have any control over taxes as such so it doesn't have a budget in the way a sovereign government would have. The comparison is just not valid. All it has is a stipend from Westminster, the amount of which is decided by Westminster and then divided up by the Stormont executive. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion. "
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about... |
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"All the money in the UK is directed to England, the south of England at that! There has never been a desire to make NI viable, and certainly never to align it with ROI.
This is not by accident, it's strategy. NI was only ever required for it's strategic position. But even that is no longer required.
There is no reason NI would grow and prosper in a UI. These figures of €10-15b a year are by design. A choice of the British government. In reality, it's a failure of British government. Which those in the north of England and Scotland can attest to"
An underdeveloped private sector is one good reason why you'd expect growth. It has good road and rail links to Dublin, plus a port and international air links. The framework is there, plus the young educated population. |
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"All the money in the UK is directed to England, the south of England at that! There has never been a desire to make NI viable, and certainly never to align it with ROI.
This is not by accident, it's strategy. NI was only ever required for it's strategic position. But even that is no longer required.
There is no reason NI would grow and prosper in a UI. These figures of €10-15b a year are by design. A choice of the British government. In reality, it's a failure of British government. Which those in the north of England and Scotland can attest to
An underdeveloped private sector is one good reason why you'd expect growth. It has good road and rail links to Dublin, plus a port and international air links. The framework is there, plus the young educated population. "
A young, educated and motivated workforce, looking for opportunity that's not being provided at present.
An NI that is in any way remotely successful in UI is bad for any UK government. Even the slightest bit of prosperity will cause ructions in many areas of the UK. |
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 |
By *ustBoWoman 19 weeks ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion.
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about... "
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
|
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion.
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about...
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
"
Did you read any of the challenges to the underlying assumptions that created that figure?
There are other more conservative estimates. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion.
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about...
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
"
I can give you a study that says it'll cost 20 billion per year for 20 years but it's wrong as well as it makes some ludicrous assumptions.  |
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"In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected. "
Makes sense |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion.
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about...
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
Did you read any of the challenges to the underlying assumptions that created that figure?
There are other more conservative estimates."
I did and going with what i deem more plausible in my opinion. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me.
I presume you mean the oft quoted 10 or 11 billion figure as declared by Sammy Wilson? That figure includes numerous payments by the north back to Britain including money towards the upkeep of the royal family, the military and the nuclear fleet, and the national debt, as well as the annual contribution of 3 billion to the pension fund. These are not costs that will be liable to an all Ireland government.
As regards the loyalist paramilitaries, well they won't have the British military funding, training and intelligence that they had in the seventies and eighties, plus their numbers will be a lot less going forward.
I'm referring to the 12 to 15 billion it costs the English exchequer to keep NI afloat.
The 8 billion surplus from our side won't cut it I'm afraid..
I'd rather see is spent on a reduction in taxes to help the so many people out there struggling to day by day.
Free figures you're kind about include a stack of payments that have nothing to do with running the north, military contributions etc. The real figure is a fraction of your 12 to 15 billion.
A couple of keyboard issues in the above.
*the figures you're talking about...
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
I can give you a study that says it'll cost 20 billion per year for 20 years but it's wrong as well as it makes some ludicrous assumptions. "
We'll agree to disagree |
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"Interestingly the government have today started asking different departments to examine and prepare for this happening in the near future. "
That's a good idea. If in the event of any poll, the last thing we need is another Brexit vote situation. Still can't believe they held that referendum on a whim!
Things need to be black and white |
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By *og-ManMan 19 weeks ago
somewhere |
"Interestingly the government have today started asking different departments to examine and prepare for this happening in the near future.
That's a good idea. If in the event of any poll, the last thing we need is another Brexit vote situation. Still can't believe they held that referendum on a whim!
Things need to be black and white"
I thought they were
The UK government can hold a referendum if they think the answer will be yes
Always assumed that was the reason for never holding one |
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"Interestingly the government have today started asking different departments to examine and prepare for this happening in the near future.
That's a good idea. If in the event of any poll, the last thing we need is another Brexit vote situation. Still can't believe they held that referendum on a whim!
Things need to be black and white
I thought they were
The UK government can hold a referendum if they think the answer will be yes
Always assumed that was the reason for never holding one "
Do we hold one here? |
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"Interestingly the government have today started asking different departments to examine and prepare for this happening in the near future.
That's a good idea. If in the event of any poll, the last thing we need is another Brexit vote situation. Still can't believe they held that referendum on a whim!
Things need to be black and white
I thought they were
The UK government can hold a referendum if they think the answer will be yes
Always assumed that was the reason for never holding one "
The Conservative and Unionist party was unlikely to ever call one tbh.
The % population share from the last census, coupled with the previous two, show a growing trend. Somewhere between 2028 and 2030 a line will be crossed. While I'm not suggesting that a sectarian headcount is sensible, it certainly is a reasonable indicator of voting preference. The next census will be hugely significant. |
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"
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
Did you read any of the challenges to the underlying assumptions that created that figure?
There are other more conservative estimates.
I did and going with what i deem more plausible in my opinion."
Immediate salary and pension equalization isn't really plausible given the difference in cost of living though. It's not likely either. |
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"Interestingly the government have today started asking different departments to examine and prepare for this happening in the near future.
That's a good idea. If in the event of any poll, the last thing we need is another Brexit vote situation. Still can't believe they held that referendum on a whim!
Things need to be black and white
I thought they were
The UK government can hold a referendum if they think the answer will be yes
Always assumed that was the reason for never holding one
Do we hold one here?"
Yes |
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On principal I’ll always vote for a United Ireland. The worst thing to ever happen to this island was to be conquered by the British, as once conquered, the ruling class in England simply didn’t care for us. They treated us as second class citizens and those remaining under their control in NI are still second class citizens in the UK, at best. Despite being stuck in this predicament I don’t feel sorry for unionists in NI as this is what they want and it’s the best they can hope for. I do feel sorry for Nationalists in NI though. They have had no relief from being stuck under the rule of an absentee, disinterested parliament, and at a local level they have faced sectarianism and mistreatment on a huge scale since partition. I feel a duty to them to vote to make things better under a UI government, if I’m ever given that vote |
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Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty |
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By *og-ManMan 19 weeks ago
somewhere |
"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
Can you understand when someone changes your statement to the other way round |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
Define what ever is in your power? |
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"
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
Did you read any of the challenges to the underlying assumptions that created that figure?
There are other more conservative estimates.
I did and going with what i deem more plausible in my opinion.
Immediate salary and pension equalization isn't really plausible given the difference in cost of living though. It's not likely either."
That I would agree on, I'm not really sure what your stance is on a united Ireland? |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
I'm irish and understand where you're coming from and you're intitled to be proud of your heritage but its one of the reasons why in my opinion things should stay the way they are.
Because of people like you...
On both sides
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"On principal I’ll always vote for a United Ireland. The worst thing to ever happen to this island was to be conquered by the British, as once conquered, the ruling class in England simply didn’t care for us. They treated us as second class citizens and those remaining under their control in NI are still second class citizens in the UK, at best. Despite being stuck in this predicament I don’t feel sorry for unionists in NI as this is what they want and it’s the best they can hope for. I do feel sorry for Nationalists in NI though. They have had no relief from being stuck under the rule of an absentee, disinterested parliament, and at a local level they have faced sectarianism and mistreatment on a huge scale since partition. I feel a duty to them to vote to make things better under a UI government, if I’m ever given that vote"
I do have respect for unionists in Northern Ireland. Things have to be viewed from their side also.
Many feel more British than most of those actually living in Britain. The conflict has hardened that.
However, the feeling in Britain, in the main, is not mutual. They might not admit it, but they have been abandoned in many ways. Most recently with Brexit, which was mainly an English vote with no consideration at all for their fellow citizens in NI.
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"Yes a united Ireland as long as Republic leave EU and become part of United Kingdom again"
You're not playing attention!
The last British government silenced all talk on Brexit, created other talking points. The next government will continue that, until the UK is fully aligned with the EU again.
It will cost money, but it's just a matter of time, at this stage. |
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"On principal I’ll always vote for a United Ireland. The worst thing to ever happen to this island was to be conquered by the British, as once conquered, the ruling class in England simply didn’t care for us. They treated us as second class citizens and those remaining under their control in NI are still second class citizens in the UK, at best. Despite being stuck in this predicament I don’t feel sorry for unionists in NI as this is what they want and it’s the best they can hope for. I do feel sorry for Nationalists in NI though. They have had no relief from being stuck under the rule of an absentee, disinterested parliament, and at a local level they have faced sectarianism and mistreatment on a huge scale since partition. I feel a duty to them to vote to make things better under a UI government, if I’m ever given that vote
I do have respect for unionists in Northern Ireland. Things have to be viewed from their side also.
Many feel more British than most of those actually living in Britain. The conflict has hardened that.
However, the feeling in Britain, in the main, is not mutual. They might not admit it, but they have been abandoned in many ways. Most recently with Brexit, which was mainly an English vote with no consideration at all for their fellow citizens in NI.
"
So true |
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"
A study published from the institute of International and European affairs suggests that a United Ireland between 8 and and rising to 20 billion over a number of years according to a bbc news article.
What would they know?
Some people are blinded by the romance of a united Ireland.
Did you read any of the challenges to the underlying assumptions that created that figure?
There are other more conservative estimates.
I did and going with what i deem more plausible in my opinion.
Immediate salary and pension equalization isn't really plausible given the difference in cost of living though. It's not likely either.
That I would agree on, I'm not really sure what your stance is on a united Ireland?"
I wrote it earlier on the thread |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty
Define what ever is in your power?"
I can't speak for this guy, but I imagine if he was born and raised in Britain, just like his parents and parents before him, and then a neighbouring country decides they were now going to rule over them, it would be no different than Russia trying to take over Ukraine just because they want to relive the glory days when they were once united. |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality."
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful. |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful."
Britain is Wales England and Scotland. UK is Britain and northern Ireland so he is not British he's northern Irish. |
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In my opinion a United Ireland is a romantic notion at this point, I don't think anyone with half a brain cell living in the North would want to live in a United Ireland governed by Dublin, they cant manage what they have never mind another 6 counties, plus everything is just better in the North roads, services,healthcare etc cheaper cost of living the list goes on |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful. Britain is Wales England and Scotland. UK is Britain and northern Ireland so he is not British he's northern Irish. "
British refers to the UK too. |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful. Britain is Wales England and Scotland. UK is Britain and northern Ireland so he is not British he's northern Irish. "
You may believe that. What actually matters though is what the people who live there believe
What matters is peace and that is all. |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality."
“Thinking they are British?” If u have a British passport living in Northern Ireland you are British. Just because u personally choose not to acknowledge my British identity doesn’t change that fact mate. Hope you learnt something today |
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By *og-ManMan 19 weeks ago
somewhere |
This thread is very interesting for the range of opinions without breaking out into a full blown argument for a change
While I too have this romantic notion of a united Ireland I dont think it will ever happen
So the best we can hope for is living in a peaceful shared community and sooner or later hopefully the different colour flegs stop flying. |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
“Thinking they are British?” If u have a British passport living in Northern Ireland you are British. Just because u personally choose not to acknowledge my British identity doesn’t change that fact mate. Hope you learnt something today "
you live on the island of Ireland that makes you Irish if you lived on the island of Britain that would make you British but enjoy that weaker passport when huge amounts of British people are now applying for Irish passports which is one of the best in the world. |
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By *og-ManMan 19 weeks ago
somewhere |
CC
Where you live has nothing to do with your nationality
We all signed up for The Good Friday Agreement
He's British just like a person in his family could be Irish
I'm not sure but can you have 2 passports to save all the Brexit hassle travelling |
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By (user no longer on site) 19 weeks ago
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Personally I'd love the idea of a United Ireland and its a real possibility in the future.
But on the downside I see the best chance for a United Ireland being formed is by the Neglect for Northern Irish people By the British government and to that end I'd rather the status qoe if it means that they stop treating Northern Ireland like a non entity in their Union. |
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"CC
Where you live has nothing to do with your nationality
We all signed up for The Good Friday Agreement
He's British just like a person in his family could be Irish
I'm not sure but can you have 2 passports to save all the Brexit hassle travelling "
do you really think he has an Irish passport and if he does he's a hypocrite |
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I’m not too bothered either way, I can’t see it having any effect on my day to day life. Maybe if I was living further north I’d have stronger feelings on the matter and if I’d to vote on a referendum about the North joining the Republic it would come down to how I was feeling on the day.
That said, I can’t see it happening in my lifetime. We’ve been dealing and listening about Brexit since 2016 and it’s still not resolved and something as complex as the North/ South divide will take a whole lot longer to resolve.
P.S send boobs |
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By (user no longer on site) 19 weeks ago
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"I don't want to clog up the coolock thread.
I have a question to those who are strongly in favor of a United Ireland.
Why do you feel so strongly about it?
I'm asking because when this topic comes up I am so indifferent to it the motivations other than historical claims escape me"
I’m strongly in favour, if we live in a republic where men/woman cats/dogs and whoever and whatever else can live side by side religion, race and nationality aside, then I feel it’s time to let the past be the past and reunite Ireland, remove the divide and unite the nation |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
In my view this is a common misconception - but its often raised by zero-sum politicians seeking to inject some fear and paranoia into a topic (for the record, Im not suggesting thats the intent with this post!)
If there was a United Ireland (and I don't see that happening any time soon) there is literally Zero chance anyone would be asked to change their citizenship as part of the process unless they wanted to.
The idea of a united Ireland suddenly requiring those in NI who consider themselves British to renounce their citizenship and pledge allegiance to a shamrock while drinking a pint of Guinness is never going to happen!!
You cant force irishness on someone any more than creating NI was able to force people to be british - The issue cant be solved by repeating mistakes of the past!
This notion also ignores the fact thousands of British citizens live in Ireland today and they arent forced to renounce their citizenship or 'bow' to anyone.
Ultimately no one individual decides - everyone is free to make their case. the collective will of the country will determine the outcome if the question is ever asked .......which should hopefully mean in the interim its in folks best interests to make their option the most prosperous, socially equitable, successful, tolerant and thriving society to live in regardless of which side of the argument you sit on, because then the answer will be obvious if asked!! |
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I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
|
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By (user no longer on site) 19 weeks ago
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
With all due respect, your living on the island of Ireland that was once a united country until the monarchy decided to torture and destroy the island and forcefully remove citizens from their land.
If the British government decides enough is enough and ends foreign rule in Ireland, and people are so loyal and obsessed ….. then check out Ryanair they do cheap flights across the pond |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty
With all due respect, your living on the island of Ireland that was once a united country until the monarchy decided to torture and destroy the island and forcefully remove citizens from their land.
If the British government decides enough is enough and ends foreign rule in Ireland, and people are so loyal and obsessed ….. then check out Ryanair they do cheap flights across the pond "
Can you not see that your attitude is just as unhelpful? |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
“Thinking they are British?” If u have a British passport living in Northern Ireland you are British. Just because u personally choose not to acknowledge my British identity doesn’t change that fact mate. Hope you learnt something today you live on the island of Ireland that makes you Irish if you lived on the island of Britain that would make you British but enjoy that weaker passport when huge amounts of British people are now applying for Irish passports which is one of the best in the world."
Enjoy the weaker passport? Not sure i understand where u are coming from. Even if I wanted an Irish passport i would never be entitled to one. I would have to lie on the application form that i wanted to be an Irish citizen which would be a lie. I presume lying in an Irish passport application would be a criminal offence as i would never wish to be Irish, it’s not my nationality and never will be. Hopefully this clears up ur confusion
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"This thread is very interesting for the range of opinions without breaking out into a full blown argument for a change
While I too have this romantic notion of a united Ireland I dont think it will ever happen
So the best we can hope for is living in a peaceful shared community and sooner or later hopefully the different colour flegs stop flying."
 |
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We live in the south east of Ireland, there's so many English after moving for a nice quiet life here, we meet have drinks a nice chat, some with Irish origins most with none, decent open minded people.
It doesn't really matter who you are or where you're from.
Education matters and your ability to converse respectfully and interact with good people is the most important.
United Ireland?
I really couldn't give a fuck.
I want pease and love. |
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"I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
"
I didn’t allude that you deserved to be treated as a second class citizen by London, I just said I didn’t feel sorry for unionists for getting into that predicament.
You also mention a lot of the practical issues that would need to be pitched to moderate unionists in order for the ‘hard sell’ to get over the line. All I can say to that is where was the ballot paper when the British forcibly took control of Ireland (and many many other countries) in the first place? If a UI ever passes a vote it will be because unionists views weren’t necessary. Surely it’s just a numbers game? At a certain point there will be more people in favour of a UI than against. The moderate vote will be as irrelevant as the loyalists’. A northern secretary won’t grant a border poll until there’s a 55-45 ratio in polls.
That doesn’t mean for a minute that unionists voices shouldn’t be heard, I’m just noting that it’s likely irrelevant. If the numbers do eventually add up, at that point a decent government of Ireland should bend over backwards to make unionists understand that they are welcome in a UI, that a vote in favour of a UI is not to be afraid of, that the secretarianism and apartheid mistakes made at the beginning of partition of NI won’t be repeated.
I don’t think Ireland is mature enough or ready for that yet, but in an ideal world and society there would be a welcome to unionists. I think Ireland would stand up and want to prove themselves to be better than the unionists were to nationalists when partition happened, and how the government of Ireland was to Protestants in Ireland at the same time. Who knows though, Irish people aren’t exactly showering themselves in flirt with asylum seekers so there’s still a long way to go |
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"I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
I didn’t allude that you deserved to be treated as a second class citizen by London, I just said I didn’t feel sorry for unionists for getting into that predicament.
You also mention a lot of the practical issues that would need to be pitched to moderate unionists in order for the ‘hard sell’ to get over the line. All I can say to that is where was the ballot paper when the British forcibly took control of Ireland (and many many other countries) in the first place? If a UI ever passes a vote it will be because unionists views weren’t necessary. Surely it’s just a numbers game? At a certain point there will be more people in favour of a UI than against. The moderate vote will be as irrelevant as the loyalists’. A northern secretary won’t grant a border poll until there’s a 55-45 ratio in polls.
That doesn’t mean for a minute that unionists voices shouldn’t be heard, I’m just noting that it’s likely irrelevant. If the numbers do eventually add up, at that point a decent government of Ireland should bend over backwards to make unionists understand that they are welcome in a UI, that a vote in favour of a UI is not to be afraid of, that the secretarianism and apartheid mistakes made at the beginning of partition of NI won’t be repeated.
I don’t think Ireland is mature enough or ready for that yet, but in an ideal world and society there would be a welcome to unionists. I think Ireland would stand up and want to prove themselves to be better than the unionists were to nationalists when partition happened, and how the government of Ireland was to Protestants in Ireland at the same time. Who knows though, Irish people aren’t exactly showering themselves in flirt with asylum seekers so there’s still a long way to go "
I asked what's in it for me, a moderate progressive unionist. You gave me whataboutery *shrug*
I am not "afraid" of a United Ireland other than how it will affect me in my every day life. |
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By *og-ManMan 19 weeks ago
somewhere |
I also think there's assumptions that people in the republic would vote for a united Ireland my a majority
If it cost you a few grand extra a year in taxes would you vote yes
The Good Friday agreement calls for a majority vote so what happens in the following cases
Voter turn out not very high and majority yes but less than 50% of the total number entitled to vote actually vote yes....
I'd also imagine like the Brexit vote the unionists population would want all of the UK to have a vote |
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"I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
I didn’t allude that you deserved to be treated as a second class citizen by London, I just said I didn’t feel sorry for unionists for getting into that predicament.
You also mention a lot of the practical issues that would need to be pitched to moderate unionists in order for the ‘hard sell’ to get over the line. All I can say to that is where was the ballot paper when the British forcibly took control of Ireland (and many many other countries) in the first place? If a UI ever passes a vote it will be because unionists views weren’t necessary. Surely it’s just a numbers game? At a certain point there will be more people in favour of a UI than against. The moderate vote will be as irrelevant as the loyalists’. A northern secretary won’t grant a border poll until there’s a 55-45 ratio in polls.
That doesn’t mean for a minute that unionists voices shouldn’t be heard, I’m just noting that it’s likely irrelevant. If the numbers do eventually add up, at that point a decent government of Ireland should bend over backwards to make unionists understand that they are welcome in a UI, that a vote in favour of a UI is not to be afraid of, that the secretarianism and apartheid mistakes made at the beginning of partition of NI won’t be repeated.
I don’t think Ireland is mature enough or ready for that yet, but in an ideal world and society there would be a welcome to unionists. I think Ireland would stand up and want to prove themselves to be better than the unionists were to nationalists when partition happened, and how the government of Ireland was to Protestants in Ireland at the same time. Who knows though, Irish people aren’t exactly showering themselves in flirt with asylum seekers so there’s still a long way to go
I asked what's in it for me, a moderate progressive unionist. You gave me whataboutery *shrug*
I am not "afraid" of a United Ireland other than how it will affect me in my every day life. "
I don’t have any of the answers to the questions you asked. Others might but I’m not trying to convince you. And my point is you don’t need to be convinced. I also said in my OP that I was in favour of a UI on principal alone. The economic practicalities are secondary to me. |
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"
It's the practical things that will stop any move to a vote "
I believe so too. And one has to hope that all those practicalities and eventualities would be planned for and made clear before it ever comes to a vote. That there is no obfuscation. Because otherwise it's just a shit show waiting to happen. |
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"I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
I didn’t allude that you deserved to be treated as a second class citizen by London, I just said I didn’t feel sorry for unionists for getting into that predicament.
You also mention a lot of the practical issues that would need to be pitched to moderate unionists in order for the ‘hard sell’ to get over the line. All I can say to that is where was the ballot paper when the British forcibly took control of Ireland (and many many other countries) in the first place? If a UI ever passes a vote it will be because unionists views weren’t necessary. Surely it’s just a numbers game? At a certain point there will be more people in favour of a UI than against. The moderate vote will be as irrelevant as the loyalists’. A northern secretary won’t grant a border poll until there’s a 55-45 ratio in polls.
That doesn’t mean for a minute that unionists voices shouldn’t be heard, I’m just noting that it’s likely irrelevant. If the numbers do eventually add up, at that point a decent government of Ireland should bend over backwards to make unionists understand that they are welcome in a UI, that a vote in favour of a UI is not to be afraid of, that the secretarianism and apartheid mistakes made at the beginning of partition of NI won’t be repeated.
I don’t think Ireland is mature enough or ready for that yet, but in an ideal world and society there would be a welcome to unionists. I think Ireland would stand up and want to prove themselves to be better than the unionists were to nationalists when partition happened, and how the government of Ireland was to Protestants in Ireland at the same time. Who knows though, Irish people aren’t exactly showering themselves in flirt with asylum seekers so there’s still a long way to go
I asked what's in it for me, a moderate progressive unionist. You gave me whataboutery *shrug*
I am not "afraid" of a United Ireland other than how it will affect me in my every day life.
I don’t have any of the answers to the questions you asked. Others might but I’m not trying to convince you. And my point is you don’t need to be convinced. I also said in my OP that I was in favour of a UI on principal alone. The economic practicalities are secondary to me."
Ah yes. Because of my irrelevance. |
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United ireland isn't a dirty word or a republicans wet dream .
It's inevitable.
One thing we learned from brexit is how impractical the partition project is. We learned that Westminster and the English electorate have zero idea or interest in Ireland.
It's progressive to unite the country.
Ireland isn't a papists state any longer and people's religion doesn't mean jack shit. |
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"I'm British and what would be classed as a moderate progressive unionist.
Someone said up there that we're second class citizens (and alluded to us deserving that because that's what we wanted). Please don't. I feel in no way like a second class citizen. My life is good. In fact, my life is better here for me and my children than it was when I lived in England. I moved back here for that very reason.
I've yet to hear anyone suggest what might practically happen contractually to the 150,000 employees across just the NICS, the EAs, DofEd, & NHS alone - just some of our biggest government employers.
I've yet to hear what might happen to our Nat Ins contributions.
I've yet to hear what might happen regarding those in receipt of benefits
And I've yet to hear what's in it for me.
One thing is sure, any notion of a UI is going to take a hell of a lot of work, a hell of a lot of money, and a hell of a hard sell.
I didn’t allude that you deserved to be treated as a second class citizen by London, I just said I didn’t feel sorry for unionists for getting into that predicament.
You also mention a lot of the practical issues that would need to be pitched to moderate unionists in order for the ‘hard sell’ to get over the line. All I can say to that is where was the ballot paper when the British forcibly took control of Ireland (and many many other countries) in the first place? If a UI ever passes a vote it will be because unionists views weren’t necessary. Surely it’s just a numbers game? At a certain point there will be more people in favour of a UI than against. The moderate vote will be as irrelevant as the loyalists’. A northern secretary won’t grant a border poll until there’s a 55-45 ratio in polls.
That doesn’t mean for a minute that unionists voices shouldn’t be heard, I’m just noting that it’s likely irrelevant. If the numbers do eventually add up, at that point a decent government of Ireland should bend over backwards to make unionists understand that they are welcome in a UI, that a vote in favour of a UI is not to be afraid of, that the secretarianism and apartheid mistakes made at the beginning of partition of NI won’t be repeated.
I don’t think Ireland is mature enough or ready for that yet, but in an ideal world and society there would be a welcome to unionists. I think Ireland would stand up and want to prove themselves to be better than the unionists were to nationalists when partition happened, and how the government of Ireland was to Protestants in Ireland at the same time. Who knows though, Irish people aren’t exactly showering themselves in flirt with asylum seekers so there’s still a long way to go
I asked what's in it for me, a moderate progressive unionist. You gave me whataboutery *shrug*
I am not "afraid" of a United Ireland other than how it will affect me in my every day life.
I don’t have any of the answers to the questions you asked. Others might but I’m not trying to convince you. And my point is you don’t need to be convinced. I also said in my OP that I was in favour of a UI on principal alone. The economic practicalities are secondary to me.
Ah yes. Because of my irrelevance."
You are just a number I’m afraid. Same as the 48.11% who voted to remain in the Brexit vote.
Hopefully, as you rightly point out, any vote for a UI has enough planning and transparency on the table in advance of the vote itself, instead of making it up as they go post vote |
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cant see it happening anytime soon as the ones who pledge allegiance to king and country will fight it all the way also will the irish who support the tricolor and national anthem be happy doing away with it and having a new flag and anthem |
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"cant see it happening anytime soon as the ones who pledge allegiance to king and country will fight it all the way also will the irish who support the tricolor and national anthem be happy doing away with it and having a new flag and anthem "
The crown and the UK government agreed to the good Friday agreement and so if the requirements are met to allow reunification then loyalists would surely follow the wishes of the king? That's the whole point of being loyal to the king no?
The orange is already in the tricolour. That's for Ulster.
The national anthem is more problematic due to the wording. We will likely need a new one. It's not that unusual. Countries have changed before. |
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I have zero interest in politics so I'm going to give my thoughts and leave it at that. I won't be debating it.
Firstly, 55.8 percent of people in NI voted to remain in the EU and 8 years later are still having practical issues in regard to the movement of goods.
Many people in NI from both sides of the community who carried British passports now have an Irish one as well because we have dual nationality and are allowed to carry both.
Many nationalists had British passports because it was more practical when travelling so for exactly the same reason many Unionists applied for Irish passports immediately after Brexit.
To those using the word hypocrite, is it any more hypocritical than the fact my dentist says that almost 40 percent of his clients don't live in NI at all?
It's cheaper for people to travel from Dublin, Cork, Limerick or Galway and stay overnight for dental treatment so are they all hypocrites for not supporting local business?
I've seen many who have never set foot in NI mansplaining to those who live here what they have gone through over the years when in reality they haven't a clue.
I've read comments on previous threads from people in their 20s or 30s with very strong opinions on things they have no practical knowledge of but read about it in a book.
There will be people who will tell me it's not Northern Ireland and I should call it the North of Ireland.
There will be people who still believe that the troubles were always about freedom and the right to a united Ireland.
I'm sure those people would also have an explanation as to why as a nationalist born and bred in South Armagh working for a company with an entirely nationalist workforce would be asked in the early 80s to supply numerous businesses run by leading loyalists including a certain John McMichael?
Or why those running republican PD clubs in West Belfast would ask us to get in touch with those running similar clubs for Loyalists in East Belfast in regard to supplying goods and services?
Or why of all the times I had a gun put to my head and my vehicle taken in loyalist and republican areas that it was often the same people doing it in both areas while making a joke about "we meet again mate!"
This is just noise to many reading it and waffle to some but what it really is, is a reaction to those who think they have all the answers.
For the vast majority of people a United Ireland has fuck all to do with unity and everything to do with the effect it will have on their wallets and it isn't and never has been as simple as a disagreement between Green and Orange. |
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"We can barely manage the country we have as it is.
What makes people think we will be better off if we add a load more shit to the pile.
This is 100% the best reply to all this!! Well said"
Apart from it being factually incorrect. We, south of the border, have one of the best performing economies in the EU. We'll have a surplus of €8 billion again this year, having had the same last year and having had a surplus the previous year as well. |
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"We can barely manage the country we have as it is.
What makes people think we will be better off if we add a load more shit to the pile.
This is 100% the best reply to all this!! Well said
Apart from it being factually incorrect. We, south of the border, have one of the best performing economies in the EU. We'll have a surplus of €8 billion again this year, having had the same last year and having had a surplus the previous year as well. "
 |
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By *aid backMan 19 weeks ago
by a lake with my rod out |
If/when a united Ireland happens I suggest we have a week long bank holiday every year in July.
That way the unionist can celebrate winning the battle of the Boyne and the nationalist can celebrate reunification of the 32 counties. They can march down our streets and we'll march down theirs we can both have bone fires the works. Everyone gets to celebrate it would be one big party and no one will be left out |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful. Britain is Wales England and Scotland. UK is Britain and northern Ireland so he is not British he's northern Irish. "
Exactly its classified as great Britain and Northern Ireland |
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"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty this is why we'll never have a united Ireland when you have people thinking they are British even though they don't live in Britain how can you argue with that mentality.
With all due respect CC, they are British and saying otherwise is just as unhelpful. Britain is Wales England and Scotland. UK is Britain and northern Ireland so he is not British he's northern Irish.
Exactly its classified as great Britain and Northern Ireland "
Wait til you find out that Channel Islanders & those in the Isle of Man are British too - and they're not even part of the UK.
Mind. Blown.
Also strange that you're not applying the same logic to the Scottish, Welsh and English
 |
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By *ermbiMan 19 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected. "
Not sure if ur living in the NI the rest of us are living in. Prices have increased dramatically. Wages are much lower than in ROI. Interest rates are stubbornly high. Waiting lists for NHS are lengthy. Impossible to see a doctor and areas have no surgery at all. Free dental care is a thing of the past and private health care is creeping in. Schools are on a shoe string for funding. Potholes galore and poor roads. |
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By *aid backMan 19 weeks ago
by a lake with my rod out |
"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
The only thing in your power would be voting. Unless you're saying you'd become a terrorist? Then what would happen is internment without trial |
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By *ermbiMan 19 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"In my opinion a United Ireland is a romantic notion at this point, I don't think anyone with half a brain cell living in the North would want to live in a United Ireland governed by Dublin, they cant manage what they have never mind another 6 counties, plus everything is just better in the North roads, services,healthcare etc cheaper cost of living the list goes on"
Obviously you haven't lived in NI or paid attention to cost of living crisis, underfunding, stretched healthcare. Get your info correct rather than gerneralising |
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By *ermbiMan 19 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Wages in Belfast are much lower than in Dublin as are rents
In a united Ireland how would that work do you think
It's the practical things that will stop any move to a vote "
A simple majority is what is required as per the Good Friday Agreement. Rest of UK don't vote as its for the people of Ireland alone to determine the future.
Starmers Labour government indicated that they would not advocate a campaign of remain . Deciding to stsy out of it by the British govt would be the best option if a referendum were to take place |
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By (user no longer on site) 19 weeks ago
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Try and convincing that lot on the newtownards road in Belfast don't think they will agree judging by all the British flags on the lampposts and where is the Republic going to get 12 billion a year to run up there especially with all the fakeugees now down south ???? |
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By *ermbiMan 19 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Im British and will remain so. If ever a united Ireland came about and i doubt whether it ever would i would never accept it & never bow to Irish rule. Id never give up my British citizenship and do whatever was in my power to remove Irish sovereignty from my country and restore British sovereignty "
Its a shared country mate with your fellow Irish citizens who happen to live in NI. British sovereignty in NI is in name. British government doesn't give a toss about NI. Boris Johnson happily threw NI under the bus to get the Brexit he wanted. Donaldsons agreement with London on the lastest restoration of devolution isn't worth the paper its written on. British govt created the Irish Sea border which looks like it is set to stay. Don't be deluded that the British are worried about NI. They're not. |
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"I believe partition to be an abomination but leaving that aside, I believe it makes sense both economically and societally.
Yes, it's going to be a wrench for some but not nearly as much a wrench as partition was.
Quote me if incorrect but the 12 million pounds a year to keep NI afloat would be more or a "wrench"
Plus those who have a very strong affiliation to king and Country I personally couldn't see coming quietly.
So that's a strong no from me."
think you might find it takes a bit more than 12 million to keep ni afloat , 14.2 billion for the 23/24 budget and that's not enough to keep all the services at the min cuts have to be made |
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By *ustBoWoman 19 weeks ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected.
Not sure if ur living in the NI the rest of us are living in. Prices have increased dramatically. Wages are much lower than in ROI. Interest rates are stubbornly high. Waiting lists for NHS are lengthy. Impossible to see a doctor and areas have no surgery at all. Free dental care is a thing of the past and private health care is creeping in. Schools are on a shoe string for funding. Potholes galore and poor roads. "
Compared to down south it's a hell of a lot better. And I'm not on a massive wage up here either. So I've lived in both and up here it's a hell of a lot more affordable than down south in my experience.
If you actually read my post you would have seen I said wages down south are higher but the cost of living is a hell of a lot higher. Try paying to see your doctor then paying for your monthly meds as well. And waiting lists are ridiculously long as I already pointed out.
Dental care is a hell of a lot more expensive,as well as even taxing your car, you pay to get your bins collected as well as paying a property And throw water charges into that as well for some good measure.
The main roads are great in the south some of the back roads are full of potholes. Schools are under just as much pressure as up here.
So yes as someone who has lived in both places the cost of living is a hell of a lot more down south. |
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Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too. |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too. "
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me. |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too.
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me. "
The provo crap is still alive and kicking and destroying lives in the north as much as ever . |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too.
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me.
The provo crap is still alive and kicking and destroying lives in the north as much as ever . "
If you're using the term "Provo crap" loosely to define republican splinter groups then you've missed a couple of decades.
If you think the actual Provos are still active then you haven't been watching closely.
You may well be adapting the fairly typical "free state" mentality espoused by some RTÉ News reporters in the past where it was easier to just say they're both as bad as each other than to actually analyse what was going on. This is the mentality that had Antrim players being called brits by Laois fans in Croke Park a few weeks ago. Sickeningly lazy shit. |
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By (user no longer on site) 19 weeks ago
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Both of us grew up on the border area! Not enough years have passed yet to even think this is feasible or a good idea. Maybe just step back and discuss something else. |
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"Both of us grew up on the border area! Not enough years have passed yet to even think this is feasible or a good idea. Maybe just step back and discuss something else. "
As someone who also grew up on the border and spent a lot of time in the north, I would respectfully disagree with you.
This doesn't mean that I don't think you have a lovely bottom. |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too.
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me.
The provo crap is still alive and kicking and destroying lives in the north as much as ever . "
I said I wasn't going to debate it but I was born and bred in the middle of South Armagh and I don't know what Facebook page you are getting your news from but it's maybe time to change the channel because this is bs. |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too.
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me.
The provo crap is still alive and kicking and destroying lives in the north as much as ever .
If you're using the term "Provo crap" loosely to define republican splinter groups then you've missed a couple of decades.
If you think the actual Provos are still active then you haven't been watching closely.
You may well be adapting the fairly typical "free state" mentality espoused by some RTÉ News reporters in the past where it was easier to just say they're both as bad as each other than to actually analyse what was going on. This is the mentality that had Antrim players being called brits by Laois fans in Croke Park a few weeks ago. Sickeningly lazy shit. "
Free state - you using terms from the 1920’s is also fairly lazy . What rte have to do with anything is beyond me . And the Tyrone and Armagh supporters are well able to abuse players and supporters from counties in the republic over the years . While Sinn Fein are still associating with active criminals and recruiting convicted murderers etc it won’t happen . It will be decades before any form of it can happen as too many issues in Northern Ireland to sort out |
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"Well if it ever happens what do you do with the psni / guards. They would have to merged . So then do you arm all Gardai like the psni or do you take the firearms off the psni like the guards. You would also just be bringing all the violence and provo crap down here. Added to that out healthcare system can’t cope as it is without taking on the norths population too.
The "Provo crap" famously ended years ago with the provos finally disbanding back in 2007.
There are other small groups active on the republican side but why you think they'd be a problem in Dublin is beyond me.
The provo crap is still alive and kicking and destroying lives in the north as much as ever .
If you're using the term "Provo crap" loosely to define republican splinter groups then you've missed a couple of decades.
If you think the actual Provos are still active then you haven't been watching closely.
You may well be adapting the fairly typical "free state" mentality espoused by some RTÉ News reporters in the past where it was easier to just say they're both as bad as each other than to actually analyse what was going on. This is the mentality that had Antrim players being called brits by Laois fans in Croke Park a few weeks ago. Sickeningly lazy shit.
Free state - you using terms from the 1920’s is also fairly lazy . What rte have to do with anything is beyond me . And the Tyrone and Armagh supporters are well able to abuse players and supporters from counties in the republic over the years . While Sinn Fein are still associating with active criminals and recruiting convicted murderers etc it won’t happen . It will be decades before any form of it can happen as too many issues in Northern Ireland to sort out "
Oooohhhh right... Enjoy your night mate. |
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By *edro50Man 19 weeks ago
enniskillen |
Absolutely you can have two passports.i will say this I know my identity nationally but I don't and will never tell anyone what they identify as nationality wise is wrong because of my own beliefs and that's part of the problem on every side too many people trying to tell others what they should be. |
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By *ermbiMan 19 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected.
Not sure if ur living in the NI the rest of us are living in. Prices have increased dramatically. Wages are much lower than in ROI. Interest rates are stubbornly high. Waiting lists for NHS are lengthy. Impossible to see a doctor and areas have no surgery at all. Free dental care is a thing of the past and private health care is creeping in. Schools are on a shoe string for funding. Potholes galore and poor roads.
Compared to down south it's a hell of a lot better. And I'm not on a massive wage up here either. So I've lived in both and up here it's a hell of a lot more affordable than down south in my experience.
If you actually read my post you would have seen I said wages down south are higher but the cost of living is a hell of a lot higher. Try paying to see your doctor then paying for your monthly meds as well. And waiting lists are ridiculously long as I already pointed out.
Dental care is a hell of a lot more expensive,as well as even taxing your car, you pay to get your bins collected as well as paying a property And throw water charges into that as well for some good measure.
The main roads are great in the south some of the back roads are full of potholes. Schools are under just as much pressure as up here.
So yes as someone who has lived in both places the cost of living is a hell of a lot more down south."
Car tax is just as expensive in North depending on type of car you drive. Yes we pay bin charges in north; it's called rates and in 18 years of paying rates they have almost risen 100%. No water charges in South except for businesses which is same in North. |
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By *iseekingbiCouple 19 weeks ago
N ireland and West Midlands |
Theres some posts on here that are wide of the mark. Have a read of Brendan O'Learys book, making sense of a United Ireland. It has some facts (unlike some of above) and offers some suggestions. It clears up the subvention issue. Cant say that i agree with all he writes but i am definitely more informed.
My view is the same as before i read it. Would only support a UI if it makes peoples lives better both sides of the border. Theres no point in a UI for the sake of the rebel songs, just to get fucked over by the Tory FF/FG lot who have ran a shitshow for 100 years. |
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By *ustBoWoman 19 weeks ago
Somewhere in Co. Down |
"In theory yes it sounds great in reality no not at all. I moved up north because quite simply the cost of living down south was becoming impossible for me.
The cost of living up here is definitely less and yes the wages may not be as good but at least you can get by easier. For those saying the NHS is fucked well in my and my families experience it's way better than the health care down south especially for those on lower incomes who cannot afford private health care. I had two close family members with serious illness over the last few years and the person living down south it took them almost dying to get the help they needed because they had been left on one of the never ending waiting lists even though their condition was life threatening and they didn't have private health care. Up here another member got treated and operated on within a few weeks.
So yes in theory it might sound great but I know I wouldn't want to go back to struggling to survive due to the cost of everything.Not to mention how people's pensions etc up here would be affected.
Not sure if ur living in the NI the rest of us are living in. Prices have increased dramatically. Wages are much lower than in ROI. Interest rates are stubbornly high. Waiting lists for NHS are lengthy. Impossible to see a doctor and areas have no surgery at all. Free dental care is a thing of the past and private health care is creeping in. Schools are on a shoe string for funding. Potholes galore and poor roads.
Compared to down south it's a hell of a lot better. And I'm not on a massive wage up here either. So I've lived in both and up here it's a hell of a lot more affordable than down south in my experience.
If you actually read my post you would have seen I said wages down south are higher but the cost of living is a hell of a lot higher. Try paying to see your doctor then paying for your monthly meds as well. And waiting lists are ridiculously long as I already pointed out.
Dental care is a hell of a lot more expensive,as well as even taxing your car, you pay to get your bins collected as well as paying a property And throw water charges into that as well for some good measure.
The main roads are great in the south some of the back roads are full of potholes. Schools are under just as much pressure as up here.
So yes as someone who has lived in both places the cost of living is a hell of a lot more down south.
Car tax is just as expensive in North depending on type of car you drive. Yes we pay bin charges in north; it's called rates and in 18 years of paying rates they have almost risen 100%. No water charges in South except for businesses which is same in North. "
You pay bin charges as well as a property tax down south. Car tax is more t expensive for most cars down south. I'm not going to debate it anymore as I have lived in both and I know for me who is someone on the lower end of the wage scale it's more affordable for me to live in the north than the south. You can disagree all you want but day to day living is cheaper up here even with the lower wages. |
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By *aseylee324Couple 19 weeks ago
Valley of Squinting Windows |
"Can't we just let the Scandinavians rule us again for a while? They're a sound bunch, and are decent yodelers."
You might be on to something there, we're clearly fucking useless at it ourselves |
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"This a swing site not a political site for f€&@s sake "
God forbid we talk about anything other than sex and swinging.
I recommend banishing yourself to the Swinger's Chat section for a week and I guarantee you'll be back pure gagging to talk about politics, car insurance, which sauce goes on a bacon butty and where the best place is to buy dealer boots |
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"This a swing site not a political site for f€&@s sake
God forbid we talk about anything other than sex and swinging.
I recommend banishing yourself to the Swinger's Chat section for a week and I guarantee you'll be back pure gagging to talk about politics, car insurance, which sauce goes on a bacon butty and where the best place is to buy dealer boots "
Hahaha |
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One of the nicest things about swinging is that generally people avoid politics and you can form good cross community friendships.
People on fab who are overtly into united Ireland / anti-british / anti-irish politics are thankfully rare as who wants to have a polemicist in the bedroom. |
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"Independence for Cork
Thought it was a state of mind and not an actual state
It will be in some state Monday morning hopefully
A state of mourning  
Up the Banner "
Haha .
Hope you're wrong but may the best team win |
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"This a swing site not a political site for f€&@s sake
God forbid we talk about anything other than sex and swinging.
I recommend banishing yourself to the Swinger's Chat section for a week and I guarantee you'll be back pure gagging to talk about politics, car insurance, which sauce goes on a bacon butty and where the best place is to buy dealer boots "
Thanks. I will |
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