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Proposed Hate speech bill
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff. |
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I'm glad to see the inclusion of more contemporary definitions of gender and sexuality as protected characteristics and that the incitement of violence against these vunerable groups will prosecutable as a crime. |
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As person above said, it's political suicide.
If you read the bill, you'll see there is no clear definition of what 'hatred' is. The definition they use is 'hatred is any form of hate against etc etc'. Which is complete bollocks. It's a circular definition. You can't define something by using that same thing in the definition. It's like saying a woman is 'anyone who identifies as a woman'.
We're in clown show territory now in this country |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff."
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
"
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end? |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?"
The proposed changes are to expand the protected characteristics to include gender (including gender identity and expression) and disability
Create new laws to deal with hate crimes
Make it an offence to deny or trivialise genocide |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
The proposed changes are to expand the protected characteristics to include gender (including gender identity and expression) and disability
Create new laws to deal with hate crimes
Make it an offence to deny or trivialise genocide"
Define 'hate crimes'?
Define 'trivialise genocide'? |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?"
Have read either of the bills?
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989
Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences Bill 2022
You can also download a document called
Review of The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act - Public Consultation - 2019
This isn't new.
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
Have read either of the bills?
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989
Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences Bill 2022
You can also download a document called
Review of The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act - Public Consultation - 2019
This isn't new.
"
How does that answer either of my 2 questions? |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
The proposed changes are to expand the protected characteristics to include gender (including gender identity and expression) and disability
Create new laws to deal with hate crimes
Make it an offence to deny or trivialise genocide
Define 'hate crimes'?
Define 'trivialise genocide'?"
Hate crime defined by the Oxford dictionary
a crime, typically one involving violence, that is motivated by prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or similar grounds.
Trivalise genocide
To deny the holocaust or similar genocides or make fun of them.
Easy definations to find  |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
Have read either of the bills?
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989
Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences Bill 2022
You can also download a document called
Review of The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act - Public Consultation - 2019
This isn't new.
How does that answer either of my 2 questions?"
I'm not answering your questions. I'm pointing you in the direction of the information you need to answer those questions yourself to the end that you may have an informed, rather than an uninformed, opinion. 
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
Have read either of the bills?
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989
Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences Bill 2022
You can also download a document called
Review of The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act - Public Consultation - 2019
This isn't new.
How does that answer either of my 2 questions?
I'm not answering your questions. I'm pointing you in the direction of the information you need to answer those questions yourself to the end that you may have an informed, rather than an uninformed, opinion.
"
I asked why we needed new laws and to what end are they intended for.
How is me reading existing bills going to answer those questions? |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
Have read either of the bills?
Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act 1989
Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences Bill 2022
You can also download a document called
Review of The Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act - Public Consultation - 2019
This isn't new.
How does that answer either of my 2 questions?
I'm not answering your questions. I'm pointing you in the direction of the information you need to answer those questions yourself to the end that you may have an informed, rather than an uninformed, opinion.
I asked why we needed new laws and to what end are they intended for.
How is me reading existing bills going to answer those questions?"
It's too stop the bad people saying mean things that cause the nice people to get hurt. |
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It's a cop out by the government, instead of dealing with the real problems in the country they are trying to control us ,, hate speech laws won't stop what happened in Dublin last week , talking to nd listen to the people will , they can not keep telling us what we can say , |
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"It's a cop out by the government, instead of dealing with the real problems in the country they are trying to control us ,, hate speech laws won't stop what happened in Dublin last week , talking to nd listen to the people will , they can not keep telling us what we can say , "
Did you participate in the public consultation four years ago?
The government was literally talking to people and listening on this specific bill. |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"It's a cop out by the government, instead of dealing with the real problems in the country they are trying to control us ,, hate speech laws won't stop what happened in Dublin last week , talking to nd listen to the people will , they can not keep telling us what we can say ,
Did you participate in the public consultation four years ago?
The government was literally talking to people and listening on this specific bill."
Talking to people? Well if thats the case, why not a referendum on it. Surely thats the most democratic way to agree to it.
But I guess like the 80% of the population(from more than one poll) who thinks we have taken in enough refugees the government doesn't want to listen to the people.
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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"It's interesting. I think it's going to piss off an awful lot of bigots, racists, homophobes and transphobes. If it's something that pisses them off I'm all for it. "
exactly this, people seem to think its the death of free speech, ireland has never had free speech as its defined. Censorship and blasphemy laws have been here since state's inception |
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"It's a cop out by the government, instead of dealing with the real problems in the country they are trying to control us ,, hate speech laws won't stop what happened in Dublin last week , talking to nd listen to the people will , they can not keep telling us what we can say ,
Did you participate in the public consultation four years ago?
The government was literally talking to people and listening on this specific bill."
You are correct the government did speak to the people nd 72% of the people rejected the law Nd in the red sea poll 78% of the people rejected it ,,, that's listening to the people ok ,,,, when questioned on it the government said most TDs want it , |
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Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs! |
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I don't wish to turn this into a discussion on people seeking international protection but it's already been talked about so I'll add my piece.
People claiming it to be the major issue among the voting public are just simply wrong. If you knock on 100 doors in a typical estate in Lucan or Clondalkin you'll possibly get 2 or 3 where it gets mentioned, usually by people who aren't registered to vote or are registered but have never voted in the past. Of those 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 will have it as a major issue, and mostly based on false information, "Ukrainians getting all the council houses" or "asylum seekers living the high life on our social welfare"
For the overwhelming majority of people in these estates the major issues remain as they have been for the last few years... Housing, healthcare and cost of living. |
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"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!"
I love that the conspiracy theorists have our inept government at the heart of these secret international plans to replace the whites when they can't even manage the basics without leaking all the details.
As for authoritarian government... pfft, there's an election every five years at most yet these same people who are so far out of touch with everyone always seem to get reelected. It would make you wonder if any of the people shouting actually bother voting. |
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"I don't wish to turn this into a discussion on people seeking international protection but it's already been talked about so I'll add my piece.
People claiming it to be the major issue among the voting public are just simply wrong. If you knock on 100 doors in a typical estate in Lucan or Clondalkin you'll possibly get 2 or 3 where it gets mentioned, usually by people who aren't registered to vote or are registered but have never voted in the past. Of those 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 will have it as a major issue, and mostly based on false information, "Ukrainians getting all the council houses" or "asylum seekers living the high life on our social welfare"
For the overwhelming majority of people in these estates the major issues remain as they have been for the last few years... Housing, healthcare and cost of living. "
The same ones pushing this is the end of free speech are the same shitheads who Paul Murphy named in the dail the other night. Pushing it to their sheep whilst attaching a GoFundMe saying the money will be used to fight the bill. Grifters and wasters. |
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"I don't wish to turn this into a discussion on people seeking international protection but it's already been talked about so I'll add my piece.
People claiming it to be the major issue among the voting public are just simply wrong. If you knock on 100 doors in a typical estate in Lucan or Clondalkin you'll possibly get 2 or 3 where it gets mentioned, usually by people who aren't registered to vote or are registered but have never voted in the past. Of those 2 or 3, maybe 1 or 2 will have it as a major issue, and mostly based on false information, "Ukrainians getting all the council houses" or "asylum seekers living the high life on our social welfare"
For the overwhelming majority of people in these estates the major issues remain as they have been for the last few years... Housing, healthcare and cost of living.
The same ones pushing this is the end of free speech are the same shitheads who Paul Murphy named in the dail the other night. Pushing it to their sheep whilst attaching a GoFundMe saying the money will be used to fight the bill. Grifters and wasters. "
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!"
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime. |
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By *rRiosMan 51 weeks ago
dublin |
"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!"
While I agree with your opinion on the current government, changing the law with such vague language sets the precedent for this to happen…
“First they came for the communists / And I did not speak out / Because I am not a communist”
I agree with Micheal above, it is a small manipulative minority co-opting the support of a large disenfranchised section of society looking for someone to easily blame. Can’t we all just get along man   |
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"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime."
Unless you know someone who is identifying as a cat then that's a ludicrous comparison.  |
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"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!While I agree with your opinion on the current government, changing the law with such vague language sets the precedent for this to happen…
“First they came for the communists / And I did not speak out / Because I am not a communist”
I agree with Micheal above, it is a small manipulative minority co-opting the support of a large disenfranchised section of society looking for someone to easily blame. Can’t we all just get along man "
I wish that was the case but unfortunately hate is a strong thing and we as Irish have been subjected to it from others for centuries. To see and read how other minorities from Irish people is heartbreaking sometimes especially ones who go about their daily lives causing no issues and contributing to society |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime.
Unless you know someone who is identifying as a cat then that's a ludicrous comparison. "
I actually do
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"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime.
Unless you know someone who is identifying as a cat then that's a ludicrous comparison.
I actually do
"
Of course you do! |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime.
Unless you know someone who is identifying as a cat then that's a ludicrous comparison.
I actually do
Of course you do! "
Go to any kink event and you will see |
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"The fact the ly tried to push this thing through on the QT should be warning enough for people. Thankfully its out there now and is gaining momentum in its objection from the public."
Has been a talking point on and off for over 4 years with numerous far right protests and counter protests by the left before the lockdowns and after the lockdowns so far from the pushed through on the QT |
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"Imagine getting bent out of shape over a law that would get people who abuse others over their race, religion, mental capacity, physical capacity, sexualitiy or gender identity a criminal charge. Furthermore if you actually think this is part of a larger overall plan to hinder free speech and create a more authoritarian government you need to cop on. Our current government can't even build the houses they promised a decade ago ffs!
I object to gender identity.. I believe there are only two genders.
Most people do, its around 80% of the population, so if i was to say you're mentally ill for identifying as a cat, I could be accused of a hate crime.
Unless you know someone who is identifying as a cat then that's a ludicrous comparison.
I actually do
Of course you do!
Go to any kink event and you will see "
Is there a face-palm emoji here somewhere? |
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff."
You’ve hard Imams preaching graphic stuff on Irish streets?
Really?
Can you be more specific e.g location and particular graphic content
I’m getting a monumental whiff of bullshit off this one |
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By *og-ManMan 51 weeks ago
somewhere |
The way I look at most laws
If one law says you can't murder someone then that law doesn't affect me as I don't intend to murder anyone ...therefore I don't object
If someone proposes a law that says don't be a cunt .....I don't intend to be so I don't object
I've enough to be worrying about without worrying about all the cunts that hate laws that are for the common good |
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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We just have a bunch of people here who havent a clue what they're talking about. Whether its gender identities, immigration, social welfare, Islam, all of them talk out of their arse because anyone who actually knows the facts doesnt kick up shit because they know how the world works. Nobody identifies as a cat, even if they did why do you give a shit? Insane to say you'd be thrown in jail for saying they have a mental illness but also why would you publicly go out and say that? |
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By *iscuits8Man 51 weeks ago
Meath / Dublin / Birmingham |
"The way I look at most laws
If one law says you can't murder someone then that law doesn't affect me as I don't intend to murder anyone ...therefore I don't object
If someone proposes a law that says don't be a cunt .....I don't intend to be so I don't object
I've enough to be worrying about without worrying about all the cunts that hate laws that are for the common good "
Good man Bog, you worded it better than I was going to.
Don't go around being a cunt to people, and you don't get in any trouble. Simples. It's really, really easy.
And no, your racist uncle isn't going to jail for sharing a dodgy meme about the good ol' days on Facebook either. |
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By *inxySTV/TS 51 weeks ago
dublin |
"The fact the ly tried to push this thing through on the QT should be warning enough for people. Thankfully its out there now and is gaining momentum in its objection from the public."
On the QT ???. While I don't overly agree with it myself it has been debated on various news outlets and I've heard the justice minister on newstalk twice explaining the difference between the existing and proposed new legislation. Countless debates and consultations on the subject. It controversial for sure but certainly not being snuck in on the QT |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"The fact the ly tried to push this thing through on the QT should be warning enough for people. Thankfully its out there now and is gaining momentum in its objection from the public.
On the QT ???. While I don't overly agree with it myself it has been debated on various news outlets and I've heard the justice minister on newstalk twice explaining the difference between the existing and proposed new legislation. Countless debates and consultations on the subject. It controversial for sure but certainly not being snuck in on the QT"
When did you first hear about it?
I heard of it summer 2022 when no one was talking about it, and they were trying to rush it through.
Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
The majority of the population were against that too and were not asked. I wonder why...
All these things should be put to a referendum, no difference to vetting immigrants coming to the country. Again something that 4 out of 5 people want brought in.
You mention this and you're right wing. No wonder far right governments are starting to appear.
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By *og-ManMan 51 weeks ago
somewhere |
Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
Genuine question that I haven't got a clue about the answer being honest
What difference did it make to Travellers to be granted an ethnic status
Did it give something to them that was taken from me |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
Genuine question that I haven't got a clue about the answer being honest
What difference did it make to Travellers to be granted an ethnic status
Did it give something to them that was taken from me "
It shouldn't have just happened, we live in a democracy and the people should have had an opinion on it, no different to the abortion referendum.
They will do the same now with the increase of the TDs in Dail which is absolute madness. Should be cutting the numbers not increasing it.
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By *og-ManMan 51 weeks ago
somewhere |
"Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
Genuine question that I haven't got a clue about the answer being honest
What difference did it make to Travellers to be granted an ethnic status
Did it give something to them that was taken from me
It shouldn't have just happened, we live in a democracy and the people should have had an opinion on it, no different to the abortion referendum.
They will do the same now with the increase of the TDs in Dail which is absolute madness. Should be cutting the numbers not increasing it.
"
But we allow the Dail to do things on our behalf as an elected government
The commission that decided to increase the number of seats was based on actual figures in the constitution as far as I know
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
Genuine question that I haven't got a clue about the answer being honest
What difference did it make to Travellers to be granted an ethnic status
Did it give something to them that was taken from me
It shouldn't have just happened, we live in a democracy and the people should have had an opinion on it, no different to the abortion referendum.
They will do the same now with the increase of the TDs in Dail which is absolute madness. Should be cutting the numbers not increasing it.
But we allow the Dail to do things on our behalf as an elected government
The commission that decided to increase the number of seats was based on actual figures in the constitution as far as I know
"
Its yet more gravy train.. compare it to the amount of seats UK have per population and we already have so many more than what's required. |
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By *inxySTV/TS 51 weeks ago
dublin |
"The fact the ly tried to push this thing through on the QT should be warning enough for people. Thankfully its out there now and is gaining momentum in its objection from the public.
On the QT ???. While I don't overly agree with it myself it has been debated on various news outlets and I've heard the justice minister on newstalk twice explaining the difference between the existing and proposed new legislation. Countless debates and consultations on the subject. It controversial for sure but certainly not being snuck in on the QT
When did you first hear about it?
I heard of it summer 2022 when no one was talking about it, and they were trying to rush it through.
Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
The majority of the population were against that too and were not asked. I wonder why...
All these things should be put to a referendum, no difference to vetting immigrants coming to the country. Again something that 4 out of 5 people want brought in.
You mention this and you're right wing. No wonder far right governments are starting to appear.
"
First of all I 100% agree with you on vetting. Again to state the very very obvious there will always be public and governmental cross party consultation on any changes to law or constitutional issues which is exactly what is happening. It still hasn't gone through as submissions from various parties are still being considered and the ramifications for constitutional law are taken into account.
Your assertion that it is being rushed through simple doesn't hold up, as with any legislation changes we are all entitled to view and take a legal challenge in good time. I think from summer 2022 when you first heard about it until September 2023 when the draft bill was submitted was plenty of time to submit concerns, did you ??? and you still can as the bill is now available.
On your point about the travelling community, I'll assume that's who you are talking about but correct me if I am wrong. The entire point of designating them as a minority group was to ensure governmental departments use there full scope to provide education and health programs, housing and integration into schools/employment. This also came on the back of a challenge from the UN charter for human rights. The problem here as is often the case is that people comment without doing badic research and then expect others to do it for them. As for the right wing point, you said it not me |
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By *og-ManMan 51 weeks ago
somewhere |
"Do you remember when Enda granted a certain group ethnic status as a minority group. I dont.. it just happened.
Genuine question that I haven't got a clue about the answer being honest
What difference did it make to Travellers to be granted an ethnic status
Did it give something to them that was taken from me
It shouldn't have just happened, we live in a democracy and the people should have had an opinion on it, no different to the abortion referendum.
They will do the same now with the increase of the TDs in Dail which is absolute madness. Should be cutting the numbers not increasing it.
But we allow the Dail to do things on our behalf as an elected government
The commission that decided to increase the number of seats was based on actual figures in the constitution as far as I know
Its yet more gravy train.. compare it to the amount of seats UK have per population and we already have so many more than what's required."
Agreed ....we could probably do with 50% less and they'd still make a balls of things and look after themselves
I think the constitution says one TD per 30,000 head head of population so it needs a referendum to change it |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
How do they decide what goes in front of the dail and what goes to public referendum?
Joining Nato I would imagine would be rejected by the public while legalizing drugs would probably be accepted.
Both of these are on the horizon I would think. Interesting to see how they are managed. |
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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"Unvetted migrants" are a myth, anyone coming in from outside the EU are "vetted". Any citizen of the EU coming in have the same freedom of travel as any of us have in their country. Immigration was never the problem, its the landlord government ensuring they maximise profits for MNC vulture funds. Unbridled capitalism is the problem. |
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"How do they decide what goes in front of the dail and what goes to public referendum?
Issues that require an alteration to the constitution go to referendum. It's as simple as that. "
Scary how many supposedly free thinkers and smart people don't actually know that much |
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"How do they decide what goes in front of the dail and what goes to public referendum?
Issues that require an alteration to the constitution go to referendum. It's as simple as that.
Scary how many supposedly free thinkers and smart people don't actually know that much "
The President may also veto a bill and recommend it for referendum |
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"How do they decide what goes in front of the dail and what goes to public referendum?
Issues that require an alteration to the constitution go to referendum. It's as simple as that.
Scary how many supposedly free thinkers and smart people don't actually know that much
The President may also veto a bill and recommend it for referendum"
Also true |
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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Just watch this video scary times ahead if we keep voting in these fucked up idiotic fools running our country into the ground in Europe and in the dial bout time ppl of Ireland woke up
Nice to see ppl on here care too |
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"They tried something similar before with a blasphemy law, didn't last too long I believe the courts were swamped with about 99% of cases thrown out"
They did. Those sneaky bastards enacted the article in 1937 and The 1961 Defamation Act prescribed maximum penalties.
Never a single prosecution.
Though Stephen Fry tried his best god love him. |
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""Unvetted migrants" are a myth, anyone coming in from outside the EU are "vetted". Any citizen of the EU coming in have the same freedom of travel as any of us have in their country. Immigration was never the problem, its the landlord government ensuring they maximise profits for MNC vulture funds. Unbridled capitalism is the problem."
It's not a myth. If you arrive as an asylum seeker you are not vetted. In fact we are starting to learn now how many are arriving without travel documentation, then claim 'asylum' and once they are here theyre here for good. Any attempt at deportation will be fought by some do gooder NGO at the drop of a hat. The number of deportations from this country is shamefully low.
Ireland is a soft touch, we know it, people coming know it. Yet our clown show govt don't give a flying fuck. Suits their agenda down to the ground. Pricks |
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""Unvetted migrants" are a myth, anyone coming in from outside the EU are "vetted". Any citizen of the EU coming in have the same freedom of travel as any of us have in their country. Immigration was never the problem, its the landlord government ensuring they maximise profits for MNC vulture funds. Unbridled capitalism is the problem.
It's not a myth. If you arrive as an asylum seeker you are not vetted. In fact we are starting to learn now how many are arriving without travel documentation, then claim 'asylum' and once they are here theyre here for good. Any attempt at deportation will be fought by some do gooder NGO at the drop of a hat. The number of deportations from this country is shamefully low.
Ireland is a soft touch, we know it, people coming know it. Yet our clown show govt don't give a flying fuck. Suits their agenda down to the ground. Pricks"
If anyone would like to fact check these claims this is a good article
https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-no-100000-unvetted-foreign-nationals-did-not-receive-free-accommodation-in-a-year-5986055-Feb2023/
'Unvetted' is a complete red herring. |
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"I think it is an absolute disgrace of a bill freedom of speech was what this country was all about "
Are "Freedom of Speech" and "Hate Speech" the same thing?
Is hate speech only ok for natives? Or for the majority? What if someone from a minority was engaging in hate speech towards the native Irish? Happy enough for them to crack on? |
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Id love to see many of these ignorant bigoted asses shut up, but I believe they have the right to spit their ugly talk if they want. I don't feel it's right to legislate against speech in this way. It's actually quite handy that they are so vocal as it means you know who they are. I believe the government is acting with good intention, but curtailing speech is a little misguided.
Working to reduce poverty, education, training, housing etc is a much better idea as this is the root of the hate. |
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By *ombikerMan 51 weeks ago
the right side of the river |
"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
The proposed changes are to expand the protected characteristics to include gender (including gender identity and expression) and disability
Create new laws to deal with hate crimes
Make it an offence to deny or trivialise genocide"
I wonder will that include the genocide of Irish people by taking advantage of a failure of a potato crop to take away the rest of the food out of the country and while forcing the Irish population to leave the county or die of starvation.
It’s not that long ago. There are people alive today who’s grand parents would have experienced this. |
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By (user no longer on site) 51 weeks ago
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"I think the government will take advantage of it. The first step to political authoritarianism is by restricting speech, ask yourself why it hasn't been enacted before when I've heard Imams on the street preaching graphic stuff.
Ireland has had a hate speech law since 1989
So why the need to enact new ones? And to what end?
The proposed changes are to expand the protected characteristics to include gender (including gender identity and expression) and disability
Create new laws to deal with hate crimes
Make it an offence to deny or trivialise genocide
I wonder will that include the genocide of Irish people by taking advantage of a failure of a potato crop to take away the rest of the food out of the country and while forcing the Irish population to leave the county or die of starvation.
It’s not that long ago. There are people alive today whose grand parents would have experienced this."
Their grand parents? Really?
Let’s hash that out say there’s a person 100 years old today - born in 1923.
Average to be married and have kids was early 20’s - so parents born in late 1890 - 1910 - then they would have been born to a person in their 20’s so born c1870 - the famine ended in 1852 and life expectancy was 37.
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"Id love to see many of these ignorant bigoted asses shut up, but I believe they have the right to spit their ugly talk if they want. I don't feel it's right to legislate against speech in this way. It's actually quite handy that they are so vocal as it means you know who they are. I believe the government is acting with good intention, but curtailing speech is a little misguided.
Working to reduce poverty, education, training, housing etc is a much better idea as this is the root of the hate."
On an ideological level I agree that limiting free speech is wrong. On a practical level I'm not so sure anymore.
Free speech absolutism just seems so problematic when you look at what some countries have degenerated to using the the 1st amendment as a war cry.
Look at trans rights in the states. It's the right to free speech that grants platforms to the hate mongers that are successfully curtailing the rights of trans people all over the United States.
This law may go some way towards preventing that in as much as it will prevent public figures inciting hatred and violence towards those vulnerable minorities.
The text of bill itself is problematic. Hate isn't defined and Section 10 makes it a crime to possess material that may be used to incite hatred or violence and places the burden of proof of innocence on the possessor not on the prosecutor. That is very problematic and open to abuse.
Keeping things in perspective, most hate speech and incitement to violence against minorities is made anonymously online on global social media platforms. The bill includes a provision to prosecute those social media companies but only if they haven't used reasonable means to try to prevent it. We all know that that means no big social media platforms will ever face prosecution and we also know that they profit from hate speech. I don't see any major changes going to happen there.
I think that a lot of people are missing that fact that incitement to violence against minorities is half of this bill and that is a very important part of law in any country.
So I agree with you filthy. And I feel a sort of foreboding about the far future chilling effect it may have on free speech should the judiciary allow abuse in its interpretation.
Freedom of expression hasn't been removed from our constitution as some people would like to believe.
At the very least I do hope that the people who are most vulnerable to hatred and violence feel a little bit safer.
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By *3nsesMan 51 weeks ago
Dublin |
"Imagine thinking that every piece of legislation should be put to a referendum.
Imagine being that naive to trust the irish government to do whats best for its people.
"
You mean the same Irish people that voted in the Government? |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Imagine thinking that every piece of legislation should be put to a referendum.
Imagine being that naive to trust the irish government to do whats best for its people.
You mean the same Irish people that voted in the Government? "
With such an amazing margin that so many people support them...
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Who knows maybe one day I will feel strongly enough to express an opinion that society/the government disagrees with enough to make my speech a crime. They deserve the same legal right as I would like to have on that future day.
I may disagree with what's being said, but silencing dissenting voices is a danger. It also doesn't work. They aren't going to stop talking privately.
Loudly disagree sure. Explain, debate and educate definitely. Saying they aren't allowed to say what they have to say? No |
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By *etergemmaCouple 51 weeks ago
South Dublin Area |
"Who knows maybe one day I will feel strongly enough to express an opinion that society/the government disagrees with enough to make my speech a crime. They deserve the same legal right as I would like to have on that future day.
I may disagree with what's being said, but silencing dissenting voices is a danger. It also doesn't work. They aren't going to stop talking privately.
Loudly disagree sure. Explain, debate and educate definitely. Saying they aren't allowed to say what they have to say? No"
Wise words |
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