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Separating an artist from their work
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By *asual777 OP Man
over a year ago
i travel all over |
From the lounge
is it right to separate someone from their work if they are an asshole, or an offender , but their work is great?
Michael Jackson ? Does man in the mirror no longer stun you as a song ?
Any more examples of people that did something great, but they themselves were actually in no way in a position to be praised ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe modern people are too hung up on the notion of authorship. Maybe the invention of the copyright system has something to do with this. But if we regard authorship as a pile of **** and consider humans functioning as artists at a specific time as conduits for a creative dynamism which is culturally interconnected and self nourishing, there is no connection to begin with.
I'll shut up now... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe modern people are too hung up on the notion of authorship. Maybe the invention of the copyright system has something to do with this. But if we regard authorship as a pile of **** and consider humans functioning as artists at a specific time as conduits for a creative dynamism which is culturally interconnected and self nourishing, there is no connection to begin with.
I'll shut up now..."
jeez I m exhausted after reading that  |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
Sorry about the last post.....missed the artist bit
Michael Jackson....his music in the 80's was incredible
Thriller was never off my walkman
Went to cork to see him in concert
Since the allegations.....don't listen to him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint. |
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"Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint."
This is exactly what I've been wanting to say on the RTE thread but couldn't find the words - only with more venom (particularly aimed at celebrities /politicians who try to appeal to ordinary folk by adopting the attitude of "we're all in this together" bullshit in a crisis, making promises of taking pay cuts etc when they haven't got a fucking clue what it's like to live in the "real" world)
All these celebrities and stars, whether TV, radio, fashion, comedy, sport etc being paid outrageous kinds of money while being hailed holier than thou, the best thing since sliced bread and worshipped like Gods by people is toxic in my opinion.
We're all human, we all have talents, we all make mistakes, none of us are perfect and you can rest assured that those in the limelight, regardless of what they're famous for, have plenty of dirt buried in the closet. The only difference is they were in the right place at the right time or more than likely knew the "right" people to get to where they are.
I know why I don't own a television set anymore or listen to the radio or follow the lives of any so-called stars and celebrities.
Often full of shit with absolutely no integrity considering the influence they have on people. The world could be a much better place if these types of people with influence would use it to better the world rather than just line their pockets.
Just my 2 cents worth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Are there more instances of questionable people putting out creatively great work than there are of sound people putting out work that's a creative flop? If so, why? Might creativity be some kind of mad penance for being a prick? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Woody Allen. Roman Polanski.
The art really is tainted IMO unfortunately.
It has to contemporary though. It's not fair to judge historical art by modern moral stances/awareness"
Caravaggio |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would say at the very least the people would have to be convicted of something before I'd stop listening to or watching them. "
You know how cigarettes these days are all in the same packaging? If musicians were marketed like that, would our appreciation of the music be purer? Less biased (for better or worse) or perhaps more open to the music itself? Errm, nah |
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"Bertie Ahern.....buried his mother and the very same day went back up to Belfast to help create the Good Friday Agreement
Still a crook
"
he may be a crook but the good Friday agreement was the best thing to ever happen us in the north we wouldn't have peace today if it wasn't created so I will always be thankful to him for the part he played in it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint."
well said  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint.
This is exactly what I've been wanting to say on the RTE thread but couldn't find the words - only with more venom (particularly aimed at celebrities /politicians who try to appeal to ordinary folk by adopting the attitude of "we're all in this together" bullshit in a crisis, making promises of taking pay cuts etc when they haven't got a fucking clue what it's like to live in the "real" world)
All these celebrities and stars, whether TV, radio, fashion, comedy, sport etc being paid outrageous kinds of money while being hailed holier than thou, the best thing since sliced bread and worshipped like Gods by people is toxic in my opinion.
We're all human, we all have talents, we all make mistakes, none of us are perfect and you can rest assured that those in the limelight, regardless of what they're famous for, have plenty of dirt buried in the closet. The only difference is they were in the right place at the right time or more than likely knew the "right" people to get to where they are.
I know why I don't own a television set anymore or listen to the radio or follow the lives of any so-called stars and celebrities.
Often full of shit with absolutely no integrity considering the influence they have on people. The world could be a much better place if these types of people with influence would use it to better the world rather than just line their pockets.
Just my 2 cents worth "
I agree wholeheartedly! A good example of who who I would see as a positive influencer is Bob Geldof. He didn’t just talk he did it . I’m proud of him as a fellow Irish man |
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A shitty person is still a shitty person regardless of whether they make good music or movies or any other form of art. No I can't separate them and in many cases I won't. For example look at Ian Watkins. Loved lost prophets back in the day but I won't listen to them anymore as he's a piece of shit. |
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"Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint.
This is exactly what I've been wanting to say on the RTE thread but couldn't find the words - only with more venom (particularly aimed at celebrities /politicians who try to appeal to ordinary folk by adopting the attitude of "we're all in this together" bullshit in a crisis, making promises of taking pay cuts etc when they haven't got a fucking clue what it's like to live in the "real" world)
All these celebrities and stars, whether TV, radio, fashion, comedy, sport etc being paid outrageous kinds of money while being hailed holier than thou, the best thing since sliced bread and worshipped like Gods by people is toxic in my opinion.
We're all human, we all have talents, we all make mistakes, none of us are perfect and you can rest assured that those in the limelight, regardless of what they're famous for, have plenty of dirt buried in the closet. The only difference is they were in the right place at the right time or more than likely knew the "right" people to get to where they are.
I know why I don't own a television set anymore or listen to the radio or follow the lives of any so-called stars and celebrities.
Often full of shit with absolutely no integrity considering the influence they have on people. The world could be a much better place if these types of people with influence would use it to better the world rather than just line their pockets.
Just my 2 cents worth
I agree wholeheartedly! A good example of who who I would see as a positive influencer is Bob Geldof. He didn’t just talk he did it . I’m proud of him as a fellow Irish man "
Bob described the 1916 rising as "the original sin of the Irish state"
He described the leaders of the 1916 rebellion as being just like islamist suicide bombers.
He raised huge amounts of money for starving Ethiopians through live aid, although Ethiopia was a food exporting country.. Tragically though, he gave most of it to the Ethiopian government despite being asked not to by various NGOs, including some Irish charities and MSF. This resulted in the 3rd poorest country in Africa having the largest and best equipped army on the entire continent, enabling them to heap even more devestation and death upon the starving Eritrean people.
He handed back his "freedom of Dublin" a few years ago as he didn't want to hold the same award as his former hero Aung San Suu Kyi. In a marvelous display of hypocrisy he held onto his KBE at the same time, despite sharing it with some of the world's greatest murderers.
 I'm not a huge fan of Bob if I'm honest. |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
"Maybe we just need to stop putting people up on pedestals, we are all capable of shitty behaviour, having a natural talent for something doesn't mean you're automatically some kind of saint.
This is exactly what I've been wanting to say on the RTE thread but couldn't find the words - only with more venom (particularly aimed at celebrities /politicians who try to appeal to ordinary folk by adopting the attitude of "we're all in this together" bullshit in a crisis, making promises of taking pay cuts etc when they haven't got a fucking clue what it's like to live in the "real" world)
All these celebrities and stars, whether TV, radio, fashion, comedy, sport etc being paid outrageous kinds of money while being hailed holier than thou, the best thing since sliced bread and worshipped like Gods by people is toxic in my opinion.
We're all human, we all have talents, we all make mistakes, none of us are perfect and you can rest assured that those in the limelight, regardless of what they're famous for, have plenty of dirt buried in the closet. The only difference is they were in the right place at the right time or more than likely knew the "right" people to get to where they are.
I know why I don't own a television set anymore or listen to the radio or follow the lives of any so-called stars and celebrities.
Often full of shit with absolutely no integrity considering the influence they have on people. The world could be a much better place if these types of people with influence would use it to better the world rather than just line their pockets.
Just my 2 cents worth
I agree wholeheartedly! A good example of who who I would see as a positive influencer is Bob Geldof. He didn’t just talk he did it . I’m proud of him as a fellow Irish man
Bob described the 1916 rising as "the original sin of the Irish state"
He described the leaders of the 1916 rebellion as being just like islamist suicide bombers.
He raised huge amounts of money for starving Ethiopians through live aid, although Ethiopia was a food exporting country.. Tragically though, he gave most of it to the Ethiopian government despite being asked not to by various NGOs, including some Irish charities and MSF. This resulted in the 3rd poorest country in Africa having the largest and best equipped army on the entire continent, enabling them to heap even more devestation and death upon the starving Eritrean people.
He handed back his "freedom of Dublin" a few years ago as he didn't want to hold the same award as his former hero Aung San Suu Kyi. In a marvelous display of hypocrisy he held onto his KBE at the same time, despite sharing it with some of the world's greatest murderers.
I'm not a huge fan of Bob if I'm honest. "
You forgot to mention that his African investment fund channels its money through Mauritius - a tax haven with a network of double taxation treaties - to avoid paying tax in those poorest African countries it invests in. |
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By *ub_TMan
over a year ago
Dublin city |
Once shit gets flung at ppl in public it sticks, even if they are an entirely innocent party.
This country seems to hoover up any opinion on the internet and believes it’s true immediately. Idiots.
As someone said to me , probably the biggest problem we ever created was social media - slightly off topic yes. |
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"From the lounge
is it right to separate someone from their work if they are an asshole, or an offender , but their work is great?
Michael Jackson ? Does man in the mirror no longer stun you as a song ?
Any more examples of people that did something great, but they themselves were actually in no way in a position to be praised ? "
I think when the work is creative and from the imagination, and is inoffensive in itself, it can be seperated from the creator.
Wise words seem to be 'challenge the behaviour, not the person'. |
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"From the lounge
is it right to separate someone from their work if they are an asshole, or an offender , but their work is great?
Michael Jackson ? Does man in the mirror no longer stun you as a song ?
Any more examples of people that did something great, but they themselves were actually in no way in a position to be praised ?
I think when the work is creative and from the imagination, and is inoffensive in itself, it can be seperated from the creator.
Wise words seem to be 'challenge the behaviour, not the person'."
There's something to be said for that but I have trouble with support said artists financially. I vote with my pocket |
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"I would say at the very least the people would have to be convicted of something before I'd stop listening to or watching them.
You know how cigarettes these days are all in the same packaging? If musicians were marketed like that, would our appreciation of the music be purer? Less biased (for better or worse) or perhaps more open to the music itself? Errm, nah"
I smoke the lot of em  fools |
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"A shitty person is still a shitty person regardless of whether they make good music or movies or any other form of art. No I can't separate them and in many cases I won't. For example look at Ian Watkins. Loved lost prophets back in the day but I won't listen to them anymore as he's a piece of shit. "
A world changing musician is still a world changing musician regardless of their human shittyness  |
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"Can't look at Tom Hanks the same anymore since his name appears on Epsteins list .and he suddenly relocated to Greece "
Apparently that never happened. It was a parody social media account that mentioned hanks. He never appeared in the Epstein flight logs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can watch Kevin Spacey in everything (Margin Call is one of my favourite films ever), and always think he’s brilliant, without wanting to go for a point with him..
Somethin that’s beautiful isn’t any less beautiful if the person who made it is ugly..  |
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"A shitty person is still a shitty person regardless of whether they make good music or movies or any other form of art. No I can't separate them and in many cases I won't. For example look at Ian Watkins. Loved lost prophets back in the day but I won't listen to them anymore as he's a piece of shit.
A world changing musician is still a world changing musician regardless of their human shittyness "
Is he still a world changing musician when he abuses kids etc  |
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"A shitty person is still a shitty person regardless of whether they make good music or movies or any other form of art. No I can't separate them and in many cases I won't. For example look at Ian Watkins. Loved lost prophets back in the day but I won't listen to them anymore as he's a piece of shit.
A world changing musician is still a world changing musician regardless of their human shittyness
Is he still a world changing musician when he abuses kids etc "
Yes he truly changed the world of music for ever ... you can rewrite history .... thats what dictators do |
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