So I had a discussion about this last night with a friend of mine.
What do people think about accused remaining anonymous in court cases?
We spoke about the recent case with a sex crime committed by totally not ex RTE radio presenter. |
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Two issues..
Protection of the victim's identity is important if they're a minor.
In certain cases, despite the theory of "innocent until proven guilty" some innocent people have their lives destroyed by spurious allegations that stick with them despite their innocence. They deserve protection unless found guilty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Two issues..
Protection of the victim's identity is important if they're a minor.
In certain cases, despite the theory of "innocent until proven guilty" some innocent people have their lives destroyed by spurious allegations that stick with them despite their innocence. They deserve protection unless found guilty. "
Fully agree with this  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Two issues..
Protection of the victim's identity is important if they're a minor.
In certain cases, despite the theory of "innocent until proven guilty" some innocent people have their lives destroyed by spurious allegations that stick with them despite their innocence. They deserve protection unless found guilty. "
Absolutely |
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer "
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished. |
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished. "
So someone like me with no knowledge of either of these stories could take a cursory glance at them online and form an opinion based on whatever Chinese whisper pops up first.
I know of people who never recovered from being falsely accused of something and their right to anonymity not being enforced. |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
Its more than chinese whispers in some cases
The entertainer went to the papers last year and they all ran stories about why he left his job and that it had nothing to do with sex and a teenager
Then he threatened to sue the young woman and got her to post apologies on all her social media platforms and he posted the solicitors letter he sent on his Twitter account
3 newspapers ( not tabloids) are now running stories about an ex GAA player losing court judgements to pay back money he owed
|
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer "
Everyone knows who he is, hope he gets publicly outted and is sued |
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished. "
This further proves your initial point. Because there is no female involved in either accusation! |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
Its the Streisand effect of trying to keep things quiet that backfires spectacularly
Like the super injunctions in The UK and then Scottish newspapers reported on them because the injunctions didn't work up there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished.
This further proves your initial point. Because there is no female involved in either accusation!"
Ah, but there's "the sister" |
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By *3nsesMan
over a year ago
Dublin |
"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished. "
So are you saying that everyone who is accused should be named to stop false accusations against a person who isn't involved? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished.
So are you saying that everyone who is accused should be named to stop false accusations against a person who isn't involved? "
I think more the stop leaking that there is a high profile person being accused, to prevent idle speculation side |
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By *3nsesMan
over a year ago
Dublin |
"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished.
So are you saying that everyone who is accused should be named to stop false accusations against a person who isn't involved?
I think more the stop leaking that there is a high profile person being accused, to prevent idle speculation side "
Coming up with a realistic way to stop leaks would be very challenging though. |
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"Even when anonymous most people know who the 39 year old entertainer is at this stage and indeed the Ex GAA star who allegedly got all the money when suffering from his fake cancer
This is an exanple of what I was talking about.
There are two names floating around in relation to this. One male and the other female. A couple of newspaper articles refer to the scammer as "she" and "her".
At least one of these names is wrong, and possibly both, so at least one person is currently having their reputation permanently tarnished.
So are you saying that everyone who is accused should be named to stop false accusations against a person who isn't involved? "
Quite the opposite really. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Currently doing a course on human rights and art 6 protects your rights to a fair trial, if you go to court your entitled to be heard by an independent and impartial decision maker, there is such much publicity around now that it must be very difficult to find people for jury duty.
And for the victim of a crime they have the right to privacy too.
Just look at the comments that were made about the victim( rugby lads) in the North, and another rvictim in the South- she wore lace knickers out so was obviously asking to be attacked |
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Very nice civil discussion in here, better than expected.
I did actually forget about the rugby scandal, the claims against the victim was horrible.
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
|
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By *3nsesMan
over a year ago
Dublin |
Can't post the identity of the GAA person alleged to have defraud his friends over made up cancer treatment.
Speqking of GAA stars though, here's an interesting about DJ Carey on the rte Web page.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0217/1357356-dj-carey-debt/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't post the identity of the GAA person alleged to have defraud his friends over made up cancer treatment.
Speqking of GAA stars though, here's an interesting about DJ Carey on the rte Web page.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0217/1357356-dj-carey-debt/"
Haha thanks |
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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago
Newry Down |
"Currently doing a course on human rights and art 6 protects your rights to a fair trial, if you go to court your entitled to be heard by an independent and impartial decision maker, there is such much publicity around now that it must be very difficult to find people for jury duty.
And for the victim of a crime they have the right to privacy too.
Just look at the comments that were made about the victim( rugby lads) in the North, and another rvictim in the South- she wore lace knickers out so was obviously asking to be attacked"
Have a look at the journal article, entitled:
The crown court witness service: little help in the witness box, published in The Howard Journal in 1999, accessible via Google Scholar. |
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"Very nice civil discussion in here, better than expected.
I did actually forget about the rugby scandal, the claims against the victim was horrible.
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
"
If I'm thinking of the correct case I think she was called Anna,gid rest her anyway. |
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"Very nice civil discussion in here, better than expected.
I did actually forget about the rugby scandal, the claims against the victim was horrible.
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
If I'm thinking of the correct case I think she was called Anna,gid rest her anyway. "
"God" |
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"So I had a discussion about this last night with a friend of mine.
What do people think about accused remaining anonymous in court cases?
We spoke about the recent case with a sex crime committed by totally not ex RTE radio presenter."
innocent until guilty ... accused is still innocent... Best not named until guilty . |
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"Its more than chinese whispers in some cases
The entertainer went to the papers last year and they all ran stories about why he left his job and that it had nothing to do with sex and a teenager
Then he threatened to sue the young woman and got her to post apologies on all her social media platforms and he posted the solicitors letter he sent on his Twitter account
3 newspapers ( not tabloids) are now running stories about an ex GAA player losing court judgements to pay back money he owed
"
Stones in glass houses bog 
Also gossiping looks bad on you imo |
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"Very nice civil discussion in here, better than expected.
I did actually forget about the rugby scandal, the claims against the victim was horrible.
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
"
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3 |
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"
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3 "
They never showed remorse for their deeds, I don't think they considered what they did was a mistake, it was premeditated murder |
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"
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3
They never showed remorse for their deeds, I don't think they considered what they did was a mistake, it was premeditated murder "
What age were they ?
Are you referring to a case in uk where a teenage boy and girl killed a Hungarian boy over social media shite ? |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"Its more than chinese whispers in some cases
The entertainer went to the papers last year and they all ran stories about why he left his job and that it had nothing to do with sex and a teenager
Then he threatened to sue the young woman and got her to post apologies on all her social media platforms and he posted the solicitors letter he sent on his Twitter account
3 newspapers ( not tabloids) are now running stories about an ex GAA player losing court judgements to pay back money he owed
Stones in glass houses bog
Also gossiping looks bad on you imo "
I've never " borrowed " money off anyone and pretend to have cancer
Couldn't care less about gossiping about a " celebrity " who uses legal threats against a young woman to stop her going to the Gardai and actually published the legal letters and sent them to the newspapers
|
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"
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3
They never showed remorse for their deeds, I don't think they considered what they did was a mistake, it was premeditated murder
What age were they ?
Are you referring to a case in uk where a teenage boy and girl killed a Hungarian boy over social media shite ? "
It was a case in Dublin, I wouldn't go into details here but you can find out exactly what they did, there was no remorse, and it was premeditated, whether they can change and be forgiven, would you want to unknowingly associate with them?
I think once guilty the name should possibly be released but I understand it's a very moral gray area, but in cases like the above, it's far less gray |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
She was a Russian girl called Ana Kriegel who was adopted by an Irish family
The 2 young lads are now over 18 and in an adults prison where they belong until its deemed safe to release them and that they're rehabilitated
|
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"Its more than chinese whispers in some cases
The entertainer went to the papers last year and they all ran stories about why he left his job and that it had nothing to do with sex and a teenager
Then he threatened to sue the young woman and got her to post apologies on all her social media platforms and he posted the solicitors letter he sent on his Twitter account
3 newspapers ( not tabloids) are now running stories about an ex GAA player losing court judgements to pay back money he owed
Stones in glass houses bog
Also gossiping looks bad on you imo
I've never " borrowed " money off anyone and pretend to have cancer
Couldn't care less about gossiping about a " celebrity " who uses legal threats against a young woman to stop her going to the Gardai and actually published the legal letters and sent them to the newspapers
"
I can see that ...
We all have wrongs  |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"Its more than chinese whispers in some cases
The entertainer went to the papers last year and they all ran stories about why he left his job and that it had nothing to do with sex and a teenager
Then he threatened to sue the young woman and got her to post apologies on all her social media platforms and he posted the solicitors letter he sent on his Twitter account
3 newspapers ( not tabloids) are now running stories about an ex GAA player losing court judgements to pay back money he owed
Stones in glass houses bog
Also gossiping looks bad on you imo
I've never " borrowed " money off anyone and pretend to have cancer
Couldn't care less about gossiping about a " celebrity " who uses legal threats against a young woman to stop her going to the Gardai and actually published the legal letters and sent them to the newspapers
I can see that ...
We all have wrongs "
|
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"
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3
They never showed remorse for their deeds, I don't think they considered what they did was a mistake, it was premeditated murder
What age were they ?
Are you referring to a case in uk where a teenage boy and girl killed a Hungarian boy over social media shite ?
It was a case in Dublin, I wouldn't go into details here but you can find out exactly what they did, there was no remorse, and it was premeditated, whether they can change and be forgiven, would you want to unknowingly associate with them?
I think once guilty the name should possibly be released but I understand it's a very moral gray area, but in cases like the above, it's far less gray "
Ah I know the case your on about . I don't believe for one second any teenager id capable of understanding their actions and consequences fully . For some they never fully become capable even as adults . I don't believe they are equivalent to adult murderers no ! Nor do I think naming them would do anyone any good . 1 The most likely outcome would be you would end with 2 men who had been societily shamed since teenagers , Resulting in angry bitter and societily excluded adults could be far more dangerous.
When it comes to kids and teenagers we probably should always start with the question of, if it was my 15 year old would I want him named, do I think hes a monster and do I think he will always be that way? |
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"She was a Russian girl called Ana Kriegel who was adopted by an Irish family
The 2 young lads are now over 18 and in an adults prison where they belong until its deemed safe to release them and that they're rehabilitated
"
Unfortunately we don't focus much on rehabilitation here   |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"She was a Russian girl called Ana Kriegel who was adopted by an Irish family
The 2 young lads are now over 18 and in an adults prison where they belong until its deemed safe to release them and that they're rehabilitated
Unfortunately we don't focus much on rehabilitation here "
Haven't a clue about it but the Irish state as a whole doesn't seem to be very good at most things
|
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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago
Newry Down |
The reason why anonymity of a charged person is often disregarded by the authorities, is because if they suspect that there have been multiple victims who have not yet reported a crime, naming the defendant may entice them to come forward to make a complaint and give their evidence, to prove the defendant had a modus operandi that he/she used on multiple victims. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
One case I will never forget however is the two minors who killed a Hungarian girl a few years back. They have kept their anonymity and as far as I know will continue to do so when they turn 18 and/or when they get released.
Rightly so ... what adult deserves to be beaten with the stick of a childhood mistake for the rest of their lives . One life was lost ... no need to destroy 3
They never showed remorse for their deeds, I don't think they considered what they did was a mistake, it was premeditated murder
What age were they ?
Are you referring to a case in uk where a teenage boy and girl killed a Hungarian boy over social media shite ?
It was a case in Dublin, I wouldn't go into details here but you can find out exactly what they did, there was no remorse, and it was premeditated, whether they can change and be forgiven, would you want to unknowingly associate with them?
I think once guilty the name should possibly be released but I understand it's a very moral gray area, but in cases like the above, it's far less gray
Ah I know the case your on about . I don't believe for one second any teenager id capable of understanding their actions and consequences fully . For some they never fully become capable even as adults . I don't believe they are equivalent to adult murderers no ! Nor do I think naming them would do anyone any good . 1 The most likely outcome would be you would end with 2 men who had been societily shamed since teenagers , Resulting in angry bitter and societily excluded adults could be far more dangerous.
When it comes to kids and teenagers we probably should always start with the question of, if it was my 15 year old would I want him named, do I think hes a monster and do I think he will always be that way?"
Or another way to look at it, would you like a daughter of yours dating one of these guys without knowing what they'd have done in the past? |
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