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Advice on heating
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So I have a small block built room in the back of the garden which is not serviced by my gas heating.
It's a relatively new build, nice and dry, well insulated but for the life of me, I can't get the room up to a temperature suitable for my line of work in the colder months - I need to be able to get to at least 22, 23 degrees Celsius if not more...
I use an electric, oil filled 11 fin heater - but found that it cuts out before the room gets to what I consider a comfortable temperature.
I tried adding a 7 fin heater which made only a slight difference when run simultaneously.
I then purchased one of those plugin fan heaters but the room just doesn't get to the temperature I need it to be at, even when all 3 are running! (Don't start at me with the running costs  ).
The room is so small, I feel that the heater should be well able to heat the room within the hour to the desired temperature!
Any (sane  ) advice appreciated. Mrs |
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"My first thought would be if you’ve tried all that and it’s still not heating sufficiently then the insulation might not be as good as you believe. "
How is it possible to ascertain if that's the case? |
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"My first thought would be if you’ve tried all that and it’s still not heating sufficiently then the insulation might not be as good as you believe.
How is it possible to ascertain if that's the case?"
Is there access to the roof space? Can you see if there is attic/ roof insulation?
The wall insulation is tougher to inspect but is it cavity insulated or is there an internal insulated box lasted board slab? |
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"If it’s a new heater there’s a digital display on the side that’s the modern thermostat "
No digital display, De Vielle is the brand, just a couple of switches and a dial - the 11 fin also has a timer which the 7 fin doesn't have. I don't use the timer option though. |
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My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs |
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Oil filled roads are generally a waste of time look up Rointe Panel Heaters I find they work well and they could advise you on the right size heater for your room if you give them the measurements.  |
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"My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs "
Room is 8 X 12, flat roof, felted, I presume cavity block but don't know about insulation used
PM sent |
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"My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs "
We recently converted an old shed which was solid block & cavity block walls with no insulation & a galvanised sheet roof.
80mm foil back insulation sheets on the walls & ceiling, plaster board over that & 1 small electric radiator heats it no problem & it holds the heat well. |
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"Oil filled roads are generally a waste of time look up Rointe Panel Heaters I find they work well and they could advise you on the right size heater for your room if you give them the measurements. "
Yes, I may be looking into alternative ways to heat in the future...but in the interim I'm trying to figure if I can get this sorted quickly and at an affordable price.
Thanks  |
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"My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs
Room is 8 X 12, flat roof, felted, I presume cavity block but don't know about insulation used
PM sent"
If its cavity block then theres no insulation in the wall. Do you know if inside was stabbed with insulated slab when being built? If it's old building I would assume no insulation in the roof either |
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They will work out cheaper in the long run they are pretty easy to fit with a simple bracket, efficient and can just be plugged into the nearest socket….those rads your using atm cost a bomb to run and are ineffective at heating any rooms a comfortable uniform temperature. I’d bite the bullet if I was you.  |
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"My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs
Room is 8 X 12, flat roof, felted, I presume cavity block but don't know about insulation used
PM sent
If its cavity block then theres no insulation in the wall. Do you know if inside was stabbed with insulated slab when being built? If it's old building I would assume no insulation in the roof either"
Relatively new build, certainly no older than 10, 15 years...and unfortunately I don't know...but am getting the feeling that it is down insufficient insulation  |
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"My brother recently converted a room in his garage to a treatment room. It’s 5sqm has 80mm insulated slab on the wall and 200mm attic insulation but none in the floor. He fitted an electric storage heater and he’s happy with the result. Said it’s plenty cosy for what he needs
Room is 8 X 12, flat roof, felted, I presume cavity block but don't know about insulation used
PM sent
If its cavity block then theres no insulation in the wall. Do you know if inside was stabbed with insulated slab when being built? If it's old building I would assume no insulation in the roof either"
As above said if not insulated will be very hard to heat and will cost a fortune to try heat.
PM me and can offer you some advice gladly
Ann xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Get a fan assisted liquid paraffin heater , libro are the best models from 4kwh to 7kwh , I got a 5 kWh one and it's in the hallway , perfect to keep an ambient heat in a 2 bed house so it should heat a single room no hassle |
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Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't). |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't)."
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside? |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside? "
I do , it's around 10 inches thick |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick "
Thats some sky remote you used alright |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick
Thats some sky remote you used alright "
Lol.
10 inches sound like cavity block plastered inside and outside. No insulation. Insulated slab could be fitted inside or insulation board outside and plastered |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick
Thats some sky remote you used alright "
It's a whopper |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick
Thats some sky remote you used alright
Lol.
10 inches sound like cavity block plastered inside and outside. No insulation. Insulated slab could be fitted inside or insulation board outside and plastered"
Thanks for the info.
How much space would I lose retrofitting? |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick
Thats some sky remote you used alright
Lol.
10 inches sound like cavity block plastered inside and outside. No insulation. Insulated slab could be fitted inside or insulation board outside and plastered
Thanks for the info.
How much space would I lose retrofitting?"
Insulated Slabs go from 1 inch to 5 inches I think. Standard dwelling uses 2 or 3 inches. So 4 to 6 inches which you could handle I assume |
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"Thanks for all your advice, ladies and gents.
I won't be investing in alternative heating sources currently as I know that what I have should sufficiently heat the room...I was trying to figure out why that wasn't happening, and I gather I have my answer - insulation is most likely the culprit.
So off I go now to see how I can get that sorted ( after just finishing the final touches on decorating - I could cry...but I won't).
Have you a tape. Can you open the door and measure the thickness of the wall outside to inside?
I do , it's around 10 inches thick
Thats some sky remote you used alright
Lol.
10 inches sound like cavity block plastered inside and outside. No insulation. Insulated slab could be fitted inside or insulation board outside and plastered
Thanks for the info.
How much space would I lose retrofitting?
Insulated Slabs go from 1 inch to 5 inches I think. Standard dwelling uses 2 or 3 inches. So 4 to 6 inches which you could handle I assume "
Huge |
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First what size is your room ?
I would insulate your walls with 50mm poly iso board and look into
The bath doctor Omagh for an electrocast heater 900 watts controlled by digital thermostat 30 degrees 50 degrees or 70 degrees I have them heating my entire house fantastic job |
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By *razy-CplCouple
over a year ago
and surrounding areas |
Flat roof is ur problem , as heat rises . Best advice I could give is pull down ur ceiling ,put 200 mm metac insulation between the joists not cheap I might add , put on an airtightness membrane and then an 80mm insulated slab , put an 80mm insulated slab on walls also and a few candles will heat ur room .
Mr crazy
Mr crazy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Get a chinese diesel heater and run it on kerosene.. 5kw power uses 500ml kerosene an oil very cheap leave it running for few hours the place will be toasty |
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"Flat roof is ur problem , as heat rises . Best advice I could give is pull down ur ceiling ,put 200 mm metac insulation between the joists not cheap I might add , put on an airtightness membrane and then an 80mm insulated slab , put an 80mm insulated slab on walls also and a few candles will heat ur room .
Mr crazy
Mr crazy "
When you say it's not cheap, what do you figure for a room 8 foot by 12 foot...
Also, once insulation is up, it needs to be plastered again? |
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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago
Newry Down |
Your little haven sounds as if it needs a head to toe onsite analysis of the structure, by an expert, and advice on the optimal form of heating insulation etc, again by an expert, preferably the same one. Draughts proofing is also key.
A piecemeal solution to the issues is not ideal; opinions proffered by a lot of different people.
A comprehensive package of solutions will make the structure usable in all weathers, winter or summer
If you can afford it, get the job done in one lot, rather than in pieces, that may not work together
I have been through a similar scenario myself: maximum insulation and draught-proofing is the cheapest solution as input of energy, such as gas or electricity will become prohibitively expensive in the future. This cost will never decline. |
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"Can this kind of building be insulated on the outside walls rather than the inside?
Yup. You can get special external insulation that's fixed to outside and plastered"
Ok great. Thanks. Looks like I have my research cut out for me with respect to cost and heat effectiveness. |
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"Your little haven sounds as if it needs a head to toe onsite analysis of the structure, by an expert, and advice on the optimal form of heating insulation etc, again by an expert, preferably the same one. Draughts proofing is also key.
A piecemeal solution to the issues is not ideal; opinions proffered by a lot of different people.
A comprehensive package of solutions will make the structure usable in all weathers, winter or summer
If you can afford it, get the job done in one lot, rather than in pieces, that may not work together
I have been through a similar scenario myself: maximum insulation and draught-proofing is the cheapest solution as input of energy, such as gas or electricity will become prohibitively expensive in the future. This cost will never decline."
Yes, of course . Thanks for your input. |
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By *razy-CplCouple
over a year ago
and surrounding areas |
"Flat roof is ur problem , as heat rises . Best advice I could give is pull down ur ceiling ,put 200 mm metac insulation between the joists not cheap I might add , put on an airtightness membrane and then an 80mm insulated slab , put an 80mm insulated slab on walls also and a few candles will heat ur room .
Mr crazy
Mr crazy
When you say it's not cheap, what do you figure for a room 8 foot by 12 foot...
Also, once insulation is up, it needs to be plastered again?"
Yes it needs to be plastered or else tape and joint it and paint it.
For materials alone u won't have any change out of 1200 euro , find someone to do it then and add on there costs. Hope this helps
Mr crazy |
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"Flat roof is ur problem , as heat rises . Best advice I could give is pull down ur ceiling ,put 200 mm metac insulation between the joists not cheap I might add , put on an airtightness membrane and then an 80mm insulated slab , put an 80mm insulated slab on walls also and a few candles will heat ur room .
Mr crazy
Mr crazy
When you say it's not cheap, what do you figure for a room 8 foot by 12 foot...
Also, once insulation is up, it needs to be plastered again?
Yes it needs to be plastered or else tape and joint it and paint it.
For materials alone u won't have any change out of 1200 euro , find someone to do it then and add on there costs. Hope this helps
Mr crazy "
Crikey, ok . Thanks, on both informative posts. |
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"I would say the issue is insulation. It doesnt matter what heater you use it would be going straight outside. Insulation for walls and roof best bet. "
Yes, we've established that at this stage of the thread but thanks |
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"Id say its the insulation myself ....what do the others think "
Bog ....I think you could be into something there. I reckon it could be the insulation too. But what would you do ?
Internal
External
Or a cavity fill ? |
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By *dfabMan
over a year ago
Dunboyne |
Haven't seen it above but I'd advise getting the walls pumped with the beads insulation and insulating the roof. Relatively cheap for pumping the walls and everyone I know that did it said it made a huge improvement |
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The pumped beaded insulation is ineffective with cavity blocks as you still have a cold bridge every 8 inches. It's the issue I had with our old house. Over the last two years I've slabbed most of the internal walls with 80mm foil backed.
It's hard to believe how much of a difference it makes with loft insulation (pain in the hole to do). Word of advice though, don't go anywhere near portable gas/kerosene etc heaters, Asking for health issues.
Also try to get a specialist and not a local builder as I've seen some absolute horror shows thrown up by cowboys that have had to be ripped out. Good luck |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
External insulation and insulated cladding if it's a flat roof and theirs a foil membrane you can get for insulation under a floating timber floor it all depends on what you want to spend
Dehumidifier are a good investment to help heat a cold day room as the extract the moisture which leaves the room feeling warmer without any heat
If you persist at using heaters try a eco friendly one like a dimplex non oil eco |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The pumped beaded insulation is ineffective with cavity blocks as you still have a cold bridge every 8 inches. It's the issue I had with our old house. Over the last two years I've slabbed most of the internal walls with 80mm foil backed.
It's hard to believe how much of a difference it makes with loft insulation (pain in the hole to do). Word of advice though, don't go anywhere near portable gas/kerosene etc heaters, Asking for health issues.
Also try to get a specialist and not a local builder as I've seen some absolute horror shows thrown up by cowboys that have had to be ripped out. Good luck "
This here. |
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"So I have a small block built room in the back of the garden which is not serviced by my gas heating.
It's a relatively new build, nice and dry, well insulated but for the life of me, I can't get the room up to a temperature suitable for my line of work in the colder months - I need to be able to get to at least 22, 23 degrees Celsius if not more...
I use an electric, oil filled 11 fin heater - but found that it cuts out before the room gets to what I consider a comfortable temperature.
I tried adding a 7 fin heater which made only a slight difference when run simultaneously.
I then purchased one of those plugin fan heaters but the room just doesn't get to the temperature I need it to be at, even when all 3 are running! (Don't start at me with the running costs ).
The room is so small, I feel that the heater should be well able to heat the room within the hour to the desired temperature!
Any (sane ) advice appreciated. Mrs"
I haven't read the other responses but initially, I would have question.
1, is the floor insulated under the concrete?
2, how high is the ceiling, is it open to a void?
3, what wall insulation have you?
4, is there much glazing and have you curtains?
Always maximise your heat retention before adding heat. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
this
"My first thought would be if you’ve tried all that and it’s still not heating sufficiently then the insulation might not be as good as you believe. "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
no. the device will draw all the power it needs - if that is more than the circuit can provide, the breaker pops.
Domestic 13a socket can safely provide 2800w - which is toasty.
"It is possible the electrical circuit in the room isn't feeding your appliances enough power."
|
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"If you know someone with an infrared camera they could analyse room and see where heat is been lost as obviously with a couple heaters on you are losing heat somewhere "
I don't, but thanks for the info |
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"It is possible the electrical circuit in the room isn't feeding your appliances enough power."
I wouldn't think so as the rads get piping hot and I've never had a problem with the breaker or fuse blowing... and alongside trying 3 rads I would have had a few other items plugged in the room that work just fine. I'd imagine that I wouldn't have output if there was an issue with sockets, circuit or similar...but thanks for the input. I do know an electrical engineer I might be able to ask to have a look into this |
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"It's coming in to Christmas crazy season.
I say wrap it in gingerbread and plug the breezy gaps with icing
Sorry now but I just have images of you breaking out of a great big cake singing happy birthday mr president
I can't stand gingerbread but give me marzipan icing any day  "
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"The pumped beaded insulation is ineffective with cavity blocks as you still have a cold bridge every 8 inches. It's the issue I had with our old house. Over the last two years I've slabbed most of the internal walls with 80mm foil backed.
It's hard to believe how much of a difference it makes with loft insulation (pain in the hole to do). Word of advice though, don't go anywhere near portable gas/kerosene etc heaters, Asking for health issues.
Also try to get a specialist and not a local builder as I've seen some absolute horror shows thrown up by cowboys that have had to be ripped out. Good luck "
Thanks for the advice, sounds sound with regards to the type of insulation .
I have no intention of going near portable gas/kerosene heaters. Once this is finished I'll either be plugging the existing rad back in or if finances allow going for a more modern form of heating...I have my eyes on a couple of options.
I'm very wary of cowboy builders and others who claim to be experienced, professional and capable. That'll be my worst fear in choosing the right person for the job |
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"External insulation and insulated cladding if it's a flat roof and theirs a foil membrane you can get for insulation under a floating timber floor it all depends on what you want to spend
Dehumidifier are a good investment to help heat a cold day room as the extract the moisture which leaves the room feeling warmer without any heat
If you persist at using heaters try a eco friendly one like a dimplex non oil eco"
Cheers, though no room for a dehumidifier with regards to the function of the room. |
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"So I have a small block built room in the back of the garden which is not serviced by my gas heating.
It's a relatively new build, nice and dry, well insulated but for the life of me, I can't get the room up to a temperature suitable for my line of work in the colder months - I need to be able to get to at least 22, 23 degrees Celsius if not more...
I use an electric, oil filled 11 fin heater - but found that it cuts out before the room gets to what I consider a comfortable temperature.
I tried adding a 7 fin heater which made only a slight difference when run simultaneously.
I then purchased one of those plugin fan heaters but the room just doesn't get to the temperature I need it to be at, even when all 3 are running! (Don't start at me with the running costs ).
The room is so small, I feel that the heater should be well able to heat the room within the hour to the desired temperature!
Any (sane ) advice appreciated. Mrs
I haven't read the other responses but initially, I would have question.
1, is the floor insulated under the concrete?
2, how high is the ceiling, is it open to a void?
3, what wall insulation have you?
4, is there much glazing and have you curtains?
Always maximise your heat retention before adding heat."
Spoken true to your profession
I have a good number of pointers, thanks for raising valid questions though |
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Heating a room to the desired temperature is always difficult, when starting with what effectively is a garden shed or garage. They are usually built without insulation, as that wasnt needed at the time. I presume youre on a tight budget. Heres what i did, in phases.
Lay dry lining(plastic) on the floor,
and then insulation on the floor,
followed by a new wooden floor.
This wont interfere that much with your decor, and then cover with carpet. This may not cost too much. If insulating the walls and ceiling is too expensive, or disruptive, consider wall to wall curtains, they will help keep the heat in. As your room pays for itself, then you can think about improving the insulation. Ive a few other ideas, ill send to you by dm. This is what i did with a simple, very large wooden garden shed, which i use as my office. |
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"It is possible the electrical circuit in the room isn't feeding your appliances enough power.
I wouldn't think so as the rads get piping hot and I've never had a problem with the breaker or fuse blowing... and alongside trying 3 rads I would have had a few other items plugged in the room that work just fine. I'd imagine that I wouldn't have output if there was an issue with sockets, circuit or similar...but thanks for the input. I do know an electrical engineer I might be able to ask to have a look into this "
That's a silly question. Electricity is either on or off. You can't get a varying level of electricity. If the breakers aren't tripping and the cabling isn't on fire, you're getting the electricity you need. The amount of electricity that flows is based on what's using it. |
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"So I have a small block built room in the back of the garden which is not serviced by my gas heating.
It's a relatively new build, nice and dry, well insulated but for the life of me, I can't get the room up to a temperature suitable for my line of work in the colder months - I need to be able to get to at least 22, 23 degrees Celsius if not more...
I use an electric, oil filled 11 fin heater - but found that it cuts out before the room gets to what I consider a comfortable temperature.
I tried adding a 7 fin heater which made only a slight difference when run simultaneously.
I then purchased one of those plugin fan heaters but the room just doesn't get to the temperature I need it to be at, even when all 3 are running! (Don't start at me with the running costs ).
The room is so small, I feel that the heater should be well able to heat the room within the hour to the desired temperature!
Any (sane ) advice appreciated. Mrs
I haven't read the other responses but initially, I would have question.
1, is the floor insulated under the concrete?
2, how high is the ceiling, is it open to a void?
3, what wall insulation have you?
4, is there much glazing and have you curtains?
Always maximise your heat retention before adding heat.
Spoken true to your profession
I have a good number of pointers, thanks for raising valid questions though "
I wanted to reply in private to talk properly about it but.....your filters lol |
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By *reland8Man
over a year ago
sandyford |
I think you’ve already sorted this and insulation and drought must be the reason. But I’m still surprised that the 3 heaters didn’t get it up to temp, if not for the room to cool down quickly when the heaters turn off! The size of the room you’d described with 4external walls I’m very roughly estimating would take 2.5kw + to heat (that with a standard of installation that we don’t believe you have but still)
What temp do the heaters get you up to? |
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