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Lest We Forget
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It's right to remember those who lost their lives in conflict on this island and elsewhere. Those who made a difference to their cause, those who went for the 3 square meals and ended up payimg the ultimate price, and their victims both innocent and otherwise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A massive thumbs down to this
So you’re agains commemorating the ending of hostilities that contributes to the deaths of more than 20 million people?"
To be fair it's taken on alot of connotations since...
I've no strong feelings either way and normally just ignore the while day but it's certainly more complicated than that |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
"A massive thumbs down to this
So you’re agains commemorating the ending of hostilities that contributes to the deaths of more than 20 million people?
To be fair it's taken on alot of connotations since...
I've no strong feelings either way and normally just ignore the while day but it's certainly more complicated than that"
Yes, I appreciate that, but the 11th of November (today) is Armistice Day which commemorates the signing of the Armistice, personally I don’t read into it any more than that. |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
"A massive thumbs down to this
So you’re agains commemorating the ending of hostilities that contributes to the deaths of more than 20 million people?
Very much so"
Any particular reason?
Genuinely interested…. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A massive thumbs down to this
So you’re agains commemorating the ending of hostilities that contributes to the deaths of more than 20 million people?
To be fair it's taken on alot of connotations since...
I've no strong feelings either way and normally just ignore the while day but it's certainly more complicated than that
Yes, I appreciate that, but the 11th of November (today) is Armistice Day which commemorates the signing of the Armistice, personally I don’t read into it any more than that."
Fair enough and having seen the reply from dude you were talking to I'm not sure his view is anymore complex so ima go back to annoying other people now  |
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"
Any particular reason?
Genuinely interested…."
I don't think you are being genuine, but both today and a century ago, its chief purpose is propaganda.
If you're happy to be conscripted to fight for the British Commonwealth of Nations then just say so.
Nowadays it's even more pernicious than that.
Forget the thumbs down, I can think of a more appropriate digit to use to express my sentiment. |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
"A massive thumbs down to this
So you’re agains commemorating the ending of hostilities that contributes to the deaths of more than 20 million people?
To be fair it's taken on alot of connotations since...
I've no strong feelings either way and normally just ignore the while day but it's certainly more complicated than that
Yes, I appreciate that, but the 11th of November (today) is Armistice Day which commemorates the signing of the Armistice, personally I don’t read into it any more than that.
Fair enough and having seen the reply from dude you were talking to I'm not sure his view is anymore complex so ima go back to annoying other people now "
Any may I say what a wonderful job you’re doing….  |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
"
Any particular reason?
Genuinely interested….
I don't think you are being genuine, but both today and a century ago, its chief purpose is propaganda.
If you're happy to be conscripted to fight for the British Commonwealth of Nations then just say so.
Nowadays it's even more pernicious than that.
Forget the thumbs down, I can think of a more appropriate digit to use to express my sentiment."
And you are entitled of course to think as you wish, but I think your thinking that I’m not genuine in my question is an assumption, particularly since I did actually clearly state that I was “genuinely interested” so I’m afraid I must confess it lead me to the conclusion that your knowledge on things seems to be based on assumptions, even though things have been clearly laid out for you, which further leads me to think that the rest of your reply may perhaps fall into the same category…….
I don’t think Ireland are still in the Commonwealth, and I’m not sure they’re seeking conscriptions but I’ll keep an eye out……
Would the other digit be zero which would account for your understanding? |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
If we cant agree to let others commemorate their fallen on both sides of the political divide,how are things meant to improve for those growing up
Do you honestly think a united Ireland will ever happen if thats what you want and yet you still hate the other side for what they did and can't move on
Never forget but its time to forgive or its just an ever ending circle of hate
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't really mean this to sound as it's going to sound but I can't help thinking if we all could forget for a while ,these islands and the world in general might be a better place .
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Is this really the kind of thing this site is intended for. By all means commemorate or not as is your right but this is not 5he right forum for discussing the pro and cons of that time. It was bad for many and worse for more. Regardless of their background. It has no place here where we celebrate joy and pleasure. |
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By *scouple07Couple
over a year ago
louth, Ireland |
"All the profile pics on fab and not a single poppy to be seen
Ye should all be ashamed of yourselves"
The abuse we got off quite a few people last year isn't worth it in here, I'll just stick to wearing my poppy tattoo with pride all year round
Mr |
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By *scouple07Couple
over a year ago
louth, Ireland |
"If we cant agree to let others commemorate their fallen on both sides of the political divide,how are things meant to improve for those growing up
Do you honestly think a united Ireland will ever happen if thats what you want and yet you still hate the other side for what they did and can't move on
Never forget but its time to forgive or its just an ever ending circle of hate
"
Problem is alot of the younger generation (not all before someone takes offence) if asked about the poppy or what happened here they don't have a clue but are still anti British because it'd what they had been brought up thinking.
Again I will say it's not everyone but I'm going by my own experience being over here
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is this really the kind of thing this site is intended for. By all means commemorate or not as is your right but this is not 5he right forum for discussing the pro and cons of that time. It was bad for many and worse for more. Regardless of their background. It has no place here where we celebrate joy and pleasure."
It's absolutely something that can be discussed on here |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"All the profile pics on fab and not a single poppy to be seen
Ye should all be ashamed of yourselves
The abuse we got off quite a few people last year isn't worth it in here, I'll just stick to wearing my poppy tattoo with pride all year round
Mr"
I actually looked for it this morning....I remembered it from last year |
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What many people on this island fail to realise is that many Irish fought and died for the British army during the war.. Remember the whole of Ireland was part of the UK during WW1 so the argument that the Irish should not commemerate WW1 because of what the British army did in Ireland does not stand up as our own Irish died wearing British army uniforms in WW1.. Its a childish and simplistic view to say thumbs down to this thread.. |
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My ancestor died a Prisoner of War in WWI, he was from Longford. I believe he joined the Irish Gaurds due to economics in 1914, his family were poor. His death effected all his family, he left a wife and three children under 5yrs old. I remember him, not war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All the profile pics on fab and not a single poppy to be seen
Ye should all be ashamed of yourselves
The abuse we got off quite a few people last year isn't worth it in here, I'll just stick to wearing my poppy tattoo with pride all year round
Mr"
Yes it’s right to remember, the same way we wear the Lily with pride remembering the sacrifices our families made to allow us live in the Irish Republic |
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By *ombikerMan
over a year ago
the right side of the river |
"What many people on this island fail to realise is that many Irish fought and died for the British army during the war.. Remember the whole of Ireland was part of the UK during WW1 so the argument that the Irish should not commemerate WW1 because of what the British army did in Ireland does not stand up as our own Irish died wearing British army uniforms in WW1.. Its a childish and simplistic view to say thumbs down to this thread.. "
If you ever get the chance to visit a ww1 grave site, look at the headstones. A huge amount of Connaught rangers and Irish guard, Scottish, South African, Australia and also thousands of Germans, French, Belgians, African and Indian lives lost.
I have visited a few on my travels and trench sites. Those that died were mostly the sons of poor men. Cannon and machine gun fodder.
When you stand there and take in the huge scale of the amount killed you can’t help think why.
Did anything really change for ordinary people in the long run.
Saying all that, it is hard for Irish people to look at poppies after the atrocities carried out by British soldiers here.
Also let us not forget our fellow Irish probably carried out similar actions against their fellow Irish men during the civil war. Yet again the outcome made no difference to ordinary people.
The only thing that changes is the headed paper on which your tax bill arrives on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think if the commentators against the remembrance of those who fought in the Great War, and to an extent the Second World War, opened their life experience to visit the locations in Belgium, France, Poland, Germany, across all of Europe, and felt the weight of history. Perhaps there would be a greater appreciation for why taking a day, or a moment to recognise their sacrifices, whether conscripts, or volunteers.
I have strong feelings on the topic, and have always worn my Canadian Poppy with pride on November 11th and in the lead in to the date.
However…. With every debate comes counters, and I DO agree that to have the Poppy as a source of remembrance for those who fight/fell/wounded in all conflict is diluting the objective of the memory. To think that it is used to potentially commemorate an Afghani battle, which ironically may have more to do with Poppies than Flanders Fields (Canadian Poem on reference to WWI).
Anyhow…. Will retreat to my trench and peek out when it appears the cannons have fallen silent.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
And yes, this is totally an appropriate location to discuss the topic. We should all be adults here. |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
While I appreciate Armistice day has taken on a lot of different meanings for people, to me it marks the end of conflict in the First World War, nothing more, that was the origins of the day.
I also appreciate that the day has most commonly been associated with Remembrance Day, which didn’t come about till the Second World War, and to me it rememberers those who died in both conflicts, including Irish, who to me didn’t fight for the British, they fought with them, and with good reason, unless anyone thinks every Irish person should have stayed here and not joined in, and that any force advancing from the East would just stop when they invaded England?
That they wouldn’t invade Ireland too?
Just because we’re just so nice?
Or that we’d defeat them on home soil, and wouldn’t allow Ireland to be invaded?
You’d have had to stop the English invading us again first, or where did you think they were going to go if England was invaded?…… |
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By *indenMan
over a year ago
Naas which is South West of Dublin |
Forget it, the whole thread was a complete misunderstanding, apparently today is actually “Singles Day”, RosyRedLips has just pointed it out on another thread.
I believe that’s what the first post was about…..  
 |
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"What many people on this island fail to realise is that many Irish fought and died for the British army during the war.. Remember the whole of Ireland was part of the UK during WW1 so the argument that the Irish should not commemerate WW1 because of what the British army did in Ireland does not stand up as our own Irish died wearing British army uniforms in WW1.. Its a childish and simplistic view to say thumbs down to this thread.. "
To say "they fought and died for the british army", no offence, is simplistic and ignorant to what was happening at the time.
What you fail to realise is that prior to WW1 breaking out, the third homerule bill was on the cards. The country was at the brink of a civil war with 100,000 unionists forming the UVF in opposition to bill being passed in the house of commons, and about 130,000 nationalists forming the Irish volunteers, not including nationalists who formed comman na mhan, to support it. Both sides were in open arms patrolling, drilling and marching in shows of strength.
The British promised both organisations that they would get what the wanted if they fought with the british army in the war.
About 115,000 Irish volunteers fought on the side of the british believing they were fighting for homerule, not for the British.
The UVF also recieved 25,000 German rifles to oppose homerule so where were their loyalties if they were fighting using German weapons!
To the OP, dont worry, we will all have a day to celebrate together very soon with the inevitable United Ireland so atleast you have that to look forward to
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"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland "
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace. |
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"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace."
I used to be involved in a charity that put a poppy symbol on their website and social media pages a few years ago.
We received a message from the charity commission advising that if we continued to display it we would be removed from the register of charities as it was classed as a political symbol. |
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"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace.
I used to be involved in a charity that put a poppy symbol on their website and social media pages a few years ago.
We received a message from the charity commission advising that if we continued to display it we would be removed from the register of charities as it was classed as a political symbol. "
Wow. Was that in Ireland or the UK? |
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"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace.
I used to be involved in a charity that put a poppy symbol on their website and social media pages a few years ago.
We received a message from the charity commission advising that if we continued to display it we would be removed from the register of charities as it was classed as a political symbol.
Wow. Was that in Ireland or the UK?"
Uk |
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By *asual777Man
over a year ago
i travel all over |
"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace."
Part of the culture wars now . If you don’t watch the queen’s speech , wear a poppy etc perhaps you’re one of the communist lefties and aren’t patriotic enough ? The likes of the telegraph have been an excellent part of the tory machine |
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"Such a pity - so many deaths from so many countries not just England yet it all seems to come down to the politics of Ireland
I grew up in England and I remember there has always been a significant minority of people who were uncomfortable with the poppy and what it symbolises even there. That's got nothing to do with ireland (most brits wouldn't even be aware of our attitude to it) it's just because they have their own personal reasons. Some wear a white poppy instead of a red one to symbolise peace.
I used to be involved in a charity that put a poppy symbol on their website and social media pages a few years ago.
We received a message from the charity commission advising that if we continued to display it we would be removed from the register of charities as it was classed as a political symbol.
Wow. Was that in Ireland or the UK?
Uk"
In a previous life I supplied at least a dozen RBL social clubs over 20+ years.
I was in one of the clubs one day about 10 years ago when a group were heading for a golf day with a Dublin GAA club.
They told me it was a recent development at that time and they had encouraged others to get involved and the feedback was generally favourable among all concerned. |
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I have no problem with commemorating the soldiers who died in the first world war, even if I'm abhorred by the reasons the war was fought and the way those young men were used. So many of them showed great bravery.
I have no problem with commemorating the soldiers who died in the second world war in an attempt to stop the spread of fascism, even if I'm abhorred by some of the methods used, especially the blanket bombing of civilian areas with incendiary bombs such as in Dresden, and the slaughter of so many Japanese civilians by the atom bomb. So many of them showed great bravery.
What I do have a problem with is the poppy. The RBL is responsible for the distribution and sale of this symbol. According then to the people responsible for the poppy "Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community". In another of their website blurbs they say that the poppy is worn to remember the dead of the great war and subsequent wars, and to show support for all serving and past members of the armed forces.
That's a big big problem for me.
It's long past time that a uniquely Irish remembrance symbol was produced separate from the RBL poppy for those who want to commemorate the dead of this awful pointless war. |
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"I have no problem with commemorating the soldiers who died in the first world war, even if I'm abhorred by the reasons the war was fought and the way those young men were used. So many of them showed great bravery.
I have no problem with commemorating the soldiers who died in the second world war in an attempt to stop the spread of fascism, even if I'm abhorred by some of the methods used, especially the blanket bombing of civilian areas with incendiary bombs such as in Dresden, and the slaughter of so many Japanese civilians by the atom bomb. So many of them showed great bravery.
What I do have a problem with is the poppy. The RBL is responsible for the distribution and sale of this symbol. According then to the people responsible for the poppy "Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community". In another of their website blurbs they say that the poppy is worn to remember the dead of the great war and subsequent wars, and to show support for all serving and past members of the armed forces.
That's a big big problem for me.
It's long past time that a uniquely Irish remembrance symbol was produced separate from the RBL poppy for those who want to commemorate the dead of this awful pointless war. "
A very well constructed and thoughtful post. |
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By *1CorkCouple
over a year ago
Cork |
"Same argument every year  "
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room? |
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By *og-ManMan
over a year ago
somewhere |
"Same argument every year
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room?"
I have a letter and a black and white faded photo of a young boy of 17 who died in Gallipoli and is buried there in a foreign field
He never came home to terrorise other Irish people ...he thought he was fighting for Irish people.
One day we'll all have to move on
The other side of my family went into the gas chambers in world war 2
I dont hate Germans because of it |
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
"Same argument every year
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room?"
I've never heard so much shiiiiiiiite in my piff
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"Same argument every year
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room?"
My great grandfather was a nazi and I make no apologies for it.. All Germans if you go back a few generations were in Hitler youth and progressed into fully fledged nazis.. It was an ideology of the time.. Look at the 70s in northern Ireland the ira committed atrocities.. Do we hold all Irish people accountable for that of course not.. People need to have a mature outlook of the past.. Think logically and not emotionally.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Surely there is a massive difference between hating Germans and not wanting to commemorate the past and present of the German military.
Sub in the UK there |
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By *1CorkCouple
over a year ago
Cork |
"Same argument every year
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room?
I have a letter and a black and white faded photo of a young boy of 17 who died in Gallipoli and is buried there in a foreign field
He never came home to terrorise other Irish people ...he thought he was fighting for Irish people.
One day we'll all have to move on
The other side of my family went into the gas chambers in world war 2
I dont hate Germans because of it "
I don’t know if you are implying that I hate English people or interpreting that I’ve suggested Israeli’s should hate German’s due to our respective offence by any public commemoration of a military force that oppressed previous generations of our families? If you are, you are mistaken in respect to both my feelings and my point.
I’m sure many families from the confederate states privately remember and commemorate their ancestor soldiers from the American Civil War. I’m sure many of those same people can understand, even support, the movement to remove public celebrations of the Confederate military (predominantly statues) due to what they represent to a large section of the community. The positions are not incompatible.
My point is that you don’t have to cause offence or aggravate others on an Internet forum in order to celebrate the life of a long deceased family member. |
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"
He never came home to terrorise other Irish people ...he thought he was fighting for Irish people.
"
What led him to think that?
And isn't the poppy an aggressive form of similar propaganda today? |
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"
My point is that you don’t have to cause offence or aggravate others on an Internet forum in order to celebrate the life of a long deceased family member."
Most people wouldn't give their own great-grandparents a second thought.
Do you seriously think it's the lives of these soldiers that are being honoured? |
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Just going to throw it out there that over the last few centuries, Britain had invaded all but 22 countries in the world. Whatever armistice day means to each individual is a personal matter, but my take on it is that the British Army has nothing to be proud of the overall context of its existence. The poppy is run by the Royal British Legion whose aim is to help and commemorate members of the British Armed forces.
Honestly, I’ve no time for it and it is nothing but a propaganda machine. If you want to commemorate soldiers who died in WW1 there has your be a better alternative. |
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"Same argument every year
Precisely. The offence and hurt caused to a large section of our society is well known to the instigators. They do it every year on here, not to remember any dead, but to torment the living.
The next gig of many of those brave WWI vets, as the Auxies and Tans, is not remembered fondly in my family, community and locality.
Would it be OK for descendants of Prussian security forces to commemorate their brave service, prior to their reconstitution as the Gestapo, in say an Israeli chat room?
My great grandfather was a nazi and I make no apologies for it.. All Germans if you go back a few generations were in Hitler youth and progressed into fully fledged nazis.. It was an ideology of the time.. Look at the 70s in northern Ireland the ira committed atrocities.. Do we hold all Irish people accountable for that of course not.. People need to have a mature outlook of the past.. Think logically and not emotionally.. "
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By *andytown OP Man
over a year ago
Gods Own Country |
Wonderful dignified ceremony from the Albert Hall this evening on the Goggle box ??
I'd wish folk read my original post and not let themselves down with their racist vitriol posts, quite sad and depressing that they have not moved on.
Lest We Forget |
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