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Entrance to Cap
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Are they saying that part of a planned development is not going ahead..?
We know how much the French love bureaucracy… | |||
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"A set of plans by the same team has just been submitted for 74 units on the car park in Heliopolis. " 
Obviously not including a parking space then. | |||
"One of the issues with these new apartments is that the builder/company retain the right to control the bookings by third parties. A couple of friends who rent apartments in the village have both been put off by this clause more so than the high cost of apartments. " That would certainly put us off, not that we would be "on" in the first place. At 280,000 for 25 sqm we wouldn't even consider buying a place like that in a resort with (at best) a 4 month season. And yes we could afford it. I know Cap is unique and we have loved visiting over the years. However one of the attractions has always been the number of people and the atmosphere there in the season. If they price the majority out of the market then it will just become another sterile millionaires playground. On the prices quoted above a mid range apartment (60 sqm ish) would be thick end of a million Euro's. I know what I can buy in our part of Spain for that, A 4/5 bedroom villa on a good plot including private pool, with swinger clubs and nudist beaches close by would come in that range. Cap is good, but it aint that good. | |||
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"Ignoring the exceptionally high prices , it is very risky to buy a property prior to completion ( or before development has even started ) . If a developer has a viable plan , I would have thought that they could access development finance from a bank ." Yes, very good point. 
A lot of people got their fingers burned in Spain buying off plan in the early 2000's. | |||
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" Cap is good, but it aint that good." Absolutely. I love Cap, but I prefer my visits to be a special thing. Life in a seaside resort gets really miserable outside of season. | |||
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" Cap is good, but it aint that good. Absolutely. I love Cap, but I prefer my visits to be a special thing. Life in a seaside resort gets really miserable outside of season." This ! I’ve lived in the Cap for years and opted to bugger off elsewhere every winter  | |||
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"Ignoring the exceptionally high prices , it is very risky to buy a property prior to completion ( or before development has even started ) . If a developer has a viable plan , I would have thought that they could access development finance from a bank ." I don’t know how it works in Cap Finance wise, But up here in the French Alps 3 valleys, most chalets are sold off plan and the development doesn’t start until they have taken deposits and then the machines come in to start the ground work, and may take several years to complete and they cost millions | |||
"Ignoring the exceptionally high prices , it is very risky to buy a property prior to completion ( or before development has even started ) . If a developer has a viable plan , I would have thought that they could access development finance from a bank ." The French Government support tax efficient leaseback schemes to individuals who finance new build accommodation projects that will ultimately be professionally managed. This is why there are a lot of off-plan property investment schemes in France. | |||
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"waw the prices are way too high for the cap , its the price in Paris. I would not buy an apartment there, I find the ROI too risky" I got 6.75% net on total invested and two weeks of owner use. I paid only the Taxe Fonciere. I only sold up because AGN wanted to renegotiate on the renewing lease and remove owner usage altogether. The cost of staying there for two weeks made the deal pointless and I was fed up at the time with doing tax returns in four countries. It was easy to give up the French and Spanish properties with a potential Brexit looming. | |||
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"Ignoring the exceptionally high prices , it is very risky to buy a property prior to completion ( or before development has even started ) . If a developer has a viable plan , I would have thought that they could access development finance from a bank ." | |||
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"be careful when selling up, we have had 909 euros taken from our french bank account for taxe d'habitation when we had already sold up. It wasnt until the solicitors wrote to them that they agreed with us. we still havent been recompensed" An interesting post. I pay my French tax by standing order and elected to pay monthly. After submitting this years return I received a demand and 4 quarterly payment were taken from my account in addition to the monthly payment. Your post has reminded me to investigate further as I appear to have paid last year's tax twice. | |||
"With a realistic season of two months max but annual Tax hab, Tax Fonciere, EDF charges, Insurance, TV Licence, Wifi and Co Pro charges we consider ourselves lucky if we break even each year. Sadly only a couple of seasons left for us before we consider ourselves past it but its been well worth every euro invested for the fun we have had there. " A very realistic summary . Assuming things go well your maximum revenue with be about 8000 Euros. Knock off 25 % for agency fees , 1500 Euros for service charges, 800 Euros for electricity and broadband , 300 Euros for tax de sejour , 300 Euros for insurance , 1000 Euros for repairs and 300 Euros for cleaning leaves a maximum profit of about 1760 or a return on investment of about 1.2 % ( this assumes you have a good year and do not use the apartment yourself during the peak season.) On the above profit you will have to pay French income tax of 840 Euros ( assuming you opt for micro bic) . This brings your profit down to 920 Euros equating to a return of 0.6 % . Out of this you will have to pay fonciere of at least 600 Euros so you are left with about 300 Euros . In addition your could potentially receive some very high service demands for items such as building re decoration or replacement lifts . These can be up to 10000 Euros. An apartment in Cap can hardly be seen as an investment. You buy the apartment for your enjoyment and any income is a bonus . I have experiences in the apartment which I will remember for the rest of my life. On one occasion in one of the private rooms in the Sauna I can remember discussing the viability of owning an apartment in Cap with a blonde Swedish lady who was a director of a shipping company and we both concluded it was not worth while . In some ways it is hardly surprising that the development at the entrance gate is very slow to get off the ground. Prices are high and are aimed at a wealthy clientelle . However these potential customers are probably only wealthy because they have managed their money very carefully in the first instance and are unlikeley to purchase property that appears to be difficult to sell . It is probably a better bet to invest your spare cash in stocks and shares and use the income generated to rent for a few weeks . | |||
"be careful when selling up, we have had 909 euros taken from our french bank account for taxe d'habitation when we had already sold up. It wasnt until the solicitors wrote to them that they agreed with us. we still havent been recompensed" Under leaseback arrangements taxe d’habitation is not payable. In any event, I closed my account within days of repatriating closing funds. | |||
"With a realistic season of two months max but annual Tax hab, Tax Fonciere, EDF charges, Insurance, TV Licence, Wifi and Co Pro charges we consider ourselves lucky if we break even each year. Sadly only a couple of seasons left for us before we consider ourselves past it but its been well worth every euro invested for the fun we have had there. A very realistic summary . Assuming things go well your maximum revenue with be about 8000 Euros. Knock off 25 % for agency fees , 1500 Euros for service charges, 800 Euros for electricity and broadband , 300 Euros for tax de sejour , 300 Euros for insurance , 1000 Euros for repairs and 300 Euros for cleaning leaves a maximum profit of about 1760 or a return on investment of about 1.2 % ( this assumes you have a good year and do not use the apartment yourself during the peak season.) On the above profit you will have to pay French income tax of 840 Euros ( assuming you opt for micro bic) . This brings your profit down to 920 Euros equating to a return of 0.6 % . Out of this you will have to pay fonciere of at least 600 Euros so you are left with about 300 Euros . In addition your could potentially receive some very high service demands for items such as building re decoration or replacement lifts . These can be up to 10000 Euros. An apartment in Cap can hardly be seen as an investment. You buy the apartment for your enjoyment and any income is a bonus . I have experiences in the apartment which I will remember for the rest of my life. On one occasion in one of the private rooms in the Sauna I can remember discussing the viability of owning an apartment in Cap with a blonde Swedish lady who was a director of a shipping company and we both concluded it was not worth while . In some ways it is hardly surprising that the development at the entrance gate is very slow to get off the ground. Prices are high and are aimed at a wealthy clientelle . However these potential customers are probably only wealthy because they have managed their money very carefully in the first instance and are unlikeley to purchase property that appears to be difficult to sell . It is probably a better bet to invest your spare cash in stocks and shares and use the income generated to rent for a few weeks ." Investment logic can be somewhat flawed, when people are ignorant of the local situation. France has a well established leaseback structure and many, many French people invest in off-plan developments in return for tax breaks and tax incentives and these issues are instrumental parts of French retirement plans. You are referring specifically to Cap d’Agde because you chose to buy an apartment in hope that a place you like might also be a good investment. Lot’s of people make emotional decisions just like that - be it in Cap, or elsewhere in France, Spain or indeed anywhere in the world, and as you have discovered, emotional decisions are rarely solid investment decisions. Serious investors do not invest with their heart, but with their head. French leaseback investments will continue to be popular with French citizens because of the tax incentives that they receive. The only issue right now is that confidence in management companies will be shaken because of the COVID pandemic. | |||
