FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Club Discussion > Denied access

Denied access

By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

Wow I've just been denied access to Chameleons on the ground of my disability, it took me a lot of courage to call for tonight and I was very much looking forward to going, I can't find the word to describe how this has made me feel.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

and what was the reason they gave ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Wow I've just been denied access to Chameleons on the ground of my disability, it took me a lot of courage to call for tonight and I was very much looking forward to going, I can't find the word to describe how this has made me feel."

did they give a (valid) reason

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A lot of clubs aren't wheelchair friendly. Presumably it's a fire safety thing. There will be other clubs that will be ok.

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

They don't have a lift and no insurance I told them I can dostairs

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

I'm not in a wheelchair

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By *ormalguy71Man over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

Yet more prove that disabled people are discriminated against. Bloody disgusting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they have done it due to disability then that's disgusting. Its not unreasonable for a business to make premises accessible to disabled people .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They don't have a lift and no insurance I told them I can dostairs"

no insurance that sounds abit iffy to me and as for not having a lift what the f has that got to do with it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't tell me it was the normal old excuse of health and safety reasons.

I have had this answer before "sorry we don't have a ramp to allow you in"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm not in a wheelchair"

Apologies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't get mad get even.

If you can go farther afield a club like Libs would welcome you with open arms.

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By *inkyKellyCDTV/TS over a year ago

Coventry

What's your disability, if we may ask?

Unless it's something unpredictable or potentially a danger to others I'm (almost) sure that's unneccessary discrimination, but the 'insurance reasons' thing seems possible (at least to me as I have no idea what it takes to run a swinger club...)

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else"

I wonder why they're denied you access then, seems a bit strange.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else"

Sorry to hear you weren't allowed in. Maybe if the owners or management are on here they could explain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's really bad and I take it you've travelled a distance?

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

I'm here visiting my girlfriend and we were both going to go for the first time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So not only single guys but now the disabled.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else"

it sounds to me that this club does not want any one with a disability on the premises

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

I'm surprised you have been refused access, i know a blind man that goes there often

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

I have been to a club where a disabled woman was carried up the stairs to enable her to attend. I have seen people on crutches at every club I have visited

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"I'm here visiting my girlfriend and we were both going to go for the first time "

New paradise club would let you in

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else

it sounds to me that this club does not want any one with a disability on the premises "

Thats incorrect as i have seen disabled people in there

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"I have been to a club where a disabled woman was carried up the stairs to enable her to attend. I have seen people on crutches at every club I have visited "

I seen this too, maybe we were at the same club

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would be tempted to call back OP and explain that you're not satisfied with the answer you were given earlier and ask for them to explain their decision for you.

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By *ithintemptationsCouple over a year ago

plymouth

leave bad re_iews on there website if they have one,they wont like that,it is wrong IMO,

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By *ohnjones3210Man over a year ago

Chester

Waaaaaaaaa! Equality Act 2010!

People need to be very mindful these days. They could find themselves in trouble depending on how the place is run.

However, don't let it get to you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So not only single guys but now the disabled.

Isn't the latter illegal?

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

I'm surprised you have been refused access, i know a blind man that goes there often"

What the f**k I think it's all to with they think I might offend someone

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have been to a club where a disabled woman was carried up the stairs to enable her to attend. I have seen people on crutches at every club I have visited "

Carrying people upstairs is where the insurance issues arise.

But this clearly doesn't apply to the OP

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

This sounds dreadful but I'm loathe to comment without knowing both sides of the story.

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By *enny79TV/TS over a year ago

chesterfield

It's illegal for any business to refuse entry to the premises based on a disability and it's also the law that if it's possible to have a portable ramp fixed ramp or lift the business has to have them xx

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By *empting Devil.Woman over a year ago

Sheffield

It's a private members club so the usual rules don't apply.

And as well as an awful lot of narrow, steep stairways there are also differences in level throughout the club including on the ground floor. Some of these are ramps some steps.

As a result I can understand their response when officially asked if it's suitable for disabled users.

However if you are confident you can cope with all this with no assistance from staff then consider just turning up.

Btw all the play rooms, showers, locker rooms and smoking area are all upstairs.

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By *empting Devil.Woman over a year ago

Sheffield

"It's illegal for any business to refuse entry to the premises based on a disability and it's also the law that if it's possible to have a portable ramp fixed ramp or lift the business has to have them xx"

Have you been to chameleons? I seriously doubt ramps or lifts could be fitted.

And the rules don't apply the same way to private members clubs.

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By *om and JennieCouple over a year ago

Chams or Socials

I've only been to Chams once on a night when it was rammed. The stairs are narrow & steep (I struggled in heels) but if you can manage stairs, & take your time, you shouldn't have a problem.

Have you thought about Xtasia instead?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I know most of the people that work there and they are not the type to discriminate against disabled people. The club is not user friendly for disabled people as previously stated there are lots of narrow and steep staircases. If you feel that you can manage just turn up if it's not to much of a distance but without hearing the clubs sides of events I'm not going to take sides

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm here visiting my girlfriend and we were both going to go for the first time "
hey I'm sorry to hear that but its like everything in this lifestyle many disappointments to get to a few great experiences don't let it stop you doing the thing you enjoy x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I know most of the people that work there and they are not the type to discriminate against disabled people. The club is not user friendly for disabled people as previously stated there are lots of narrow and steep staircases. If you feel that you can manage just turn up if it's not to much of a distance but without hearing the clubs sides of events I'm not going to take sides "

Reading your post youve allready taken sides

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Reading your post youve allready taken sides

No I haven't I was merely saying my opioion, if what she said was true then that's poor from the clubs point of _iew but I don't know their side of events.

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

I've not been to a place I can't manage, I wasn't asking if they had a lift or ramp as I don't need or use them,

First the lady said it was ok for me to come as along as i sign a disclaimer but went to check and came back saying sorry I'm not aloud in as they don't have a lift or insurance to cover me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would be tempted to call back OP and explain that you're not satisfied with the answer you were given earlier and ask for them to explain their decision for you. "

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Sometimes the issue is not so much about how a person can enter but how will they exit quickly in case of an emergency (fire, bomb threat, building collapse, etc)

At work, people who have serious mobility issues are given desks on lower floors

We have one lady who is rather overweight and also has mobility issues. Although we have things which look like large snowboards at each fire exit, we just could not find four staff members ( two pairs; one in reserve) who are strong enough to take that much weight down five flights of stairs. Instead, she was moved to the first floor

It is all about making reasonable adjustments and not about making adjustment no matter what the cost

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

"Sometimes the issue is not so much about how a person can enter but how will they exit quickly in case of an emergency (fire, bomb threat, building collapse, etc)

At work, people who have serious mobility issues are given desks on lower floors

It is all about making reasonable adjustments and not about making adjustment no matter what the cost"

Arrrrrrr I live alone I travel the world alone yet I can enter a club what a very sad world we live in

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

Would love to hear response from the club as the op did not have a issue with stairs etc

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Sometimes the issue is not so much about how a person can enter but how will they exit quickly in case of an emergency (fire, bomb threat, building collapse, etc)

At work, people who have serious mobility issues are given desks on lower floors

It is all about making reasonable adjustments and not about making adjustment no matter what the cost

Arrrrrrr I live alone I travel the world alone yet I can enter a club what a very sad world we live in

I can't say why this club said what they said. I can only say what we do at work, which is a reasonable compromise. It allows our colleagues who have mobility issues with access to all the facilities everyone else has access to as well

The ground and mezzanine floors have differing facilities. The first floor, all the way to the eight floor, are identical. I wouldn't even know which floor I was on unless I checked

I visit one club in London where the staircase is really narrow and very steep. I rarely have more than one drink there as I am concerned that I might fall down on that staircase. I don't think they could replace that staircase given the space constraints

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

I'm surprised you have been refused access, i know a blind man that goes there often

What the f**k I think it's all to with they think I might offend someone "

I dont see how you can offend anyone, ive been to clubs where disabled people have been, some in wheel chairs, some on crutches, some with white sticks.

Im pretty sure those attending clubs are liberal enough to not be offended by a disability

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im sure they wont call in the recievers m8. Waiting list for single guys

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By *ohnjones3210Man over a year ago

Chester

"Sometimes the issue is not so much about how a person can enter but how will they exit quickly in case of an emergency (fire, bomb threat, building collapse, etc)

At work, people who have serious mobility issues are given desks on lower floors

It is all about making reasonable adjustments and not about making adjustment no matter what the cost

Arrrrrrr I live alone I travel the world alone yet I can enter a club what a very sad world we live in

That is very sad indeed.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

Have you been to chameleons? I seriously doubt ramps or lifts could be fitted.

And the rules don't apply the same way to private members clubs."

A ramp could be fitted to the entrance door, the ground floor is pretty even on the whole, though a slight tilt which i think the OP could handle.

Id be more concerned for areas such as toilets that the OP may struggle to access

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Have you been to chameleons? I seriously doubt ramps or lifts could be fitted.

And the rules don't apply the same way to private members clubs."

The rules do apply to private members clubs. They're not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of disability.

The law says they must make reasonable adjustments to allow disabled people to join and use the facilities.

Whether something is reasonable depends on things like the size and resources of the organisation, the changes or adjustments which are needed and how practicable or easy it is to do them.

I've not been to Chams but it sounds as if the required adjustments could fall outside of what would be considered reasonable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely disgusting....to say the least.....As i know this lady " Personaly"......A truly lovely person, both in looks, attitude, " Bravery" I could go on and on......She is a friend of both my wife and myself.....Words fail me.....Don't let the Bastards grind you down.....Gutted for you, absolutely gutted, but keep your chin up , We shall overcome....!!!!! xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's awful! I'm disabled and on crutches and never had problems at other clubs. I've been to Jaydess, tease2 and the annex. As for being carried up or down stairs I'd be mortified! (and most likely kill the people due to being fat lol)

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

"Absolutely disgusting....to say the least.....As i know this lady " Personaly"......A truly lovely person, both in looks, attitude, " Bravery" I could go on and on......She is a friend of both my wife and myself.....Words fail me.....Don't let the Bastards grind you down.....Gutted for you, absolutely gutted, but keep your chin up , We shall overcome....!!!!! xx"

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By *ichaelangelaCouple over a year ago

notts

Everyone seems to be commenting on the layout of chams darlaston. Considering the op is from the south west, could it be chams Newport??

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

No it was the one in Darlaston

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"Everyone seems to be commenting on the layout of chams darlaston. Considering the op is from the south west, could it be chams Newport??"

No idea as she hasnt stated which chams, I would assume most assumed Darleston as rarely see Newport posts on this site

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not defending them as I think this stinks....but the stairs in Chams are rather steep and narrow.

Still think they are over reacting!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You would be welcome at Xtasia. I have seen wheelchair users in there so as you don't need one you should have no problem. Paul and Flirt would welcome you!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leave an honest re_iew under the clubs section. I've only heard good things about this club and went to check it out. Had one of my worst nights in any club I have ever been to (and that's alot!).

Prepare to receive hate mail from the regulars but at least you have been honest about how they have treated you.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

OP, were you planning to play at the club? As downstairs has no play facilities.

The stairs are very steep, I struggle with them when barefooted, never mind when in heels, and thats me not needing crutches

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

if they have no insurance and the premises is very difficult to manoeuvre, it is a difficult one. In the event of an emergency and people had to leave quickly and they have no evacuation plan, are people prepared to wait and allow a lesser able bodied person more time.

no offence to the OP at all

but that's what it will boil down to.

hope you find another club and have fun

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

does the club have less than 25 official members ?

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"does the club have less than 25 official members ?

The club has hundreds of members

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

access and escape dont think thats the issue with the op

i do remember when i was on crutches for nearly a year if i needed to get out quick i just got on my bum and bounced down the stairs simples lol

but as the op has stated she travels the world and very comfortable with her disability's and not looking for any special arrangements

i bet in a emergency she would be 1st out the door while everyone else was still scratching there heads working out what to do lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have been going to Chams for some years with friends and I have seen people with mobility problems there. Now without knowing both sides let alone hearing the conversation it may well be they have had limitations placed on them by the local Council. Or maybe a Consultant has advised them independently. It may well be an insurance limitation. What I can say is that the club would NOT discriminate against one person simply because they are disabled.

And its unfair for people to pile in and condemn Chams without knowing the full story. Clearly the lady was disappointed in the answer and we can all sympathise. But what those in pious judgement don't know is WHY she was given the answer she was.

Next we will hear from a single bloke who was denied access that Chams is discriminating against men on the grounds of their gender ...

I will ask a staff member on here if she can shed some light.....

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"access and escape dont think thats the issue with the op

i do remember when i was on crutches for nearly a year if i needed to get out quick i just got on my bum and bounced down the stairs simples lol

but as the op has stated she travels the world and very comfortable with her disability's and not looking for any special arrangements

i bet in a emergency she would be 1st out the door while everyone else was still scratching there heads working out what to do lol

Thats neither here nor there, insurers put guidelines in place, if guidelines were ignored and a fire was to break out which resulted in OP death for example, all hell would break loose as to why guidelines ignored.

To make a fair judgement we would need to also hear the clubs point of _iew on this, maybe if someone is friends with the club they could message and point them to this thread, maybe other club owners dealing with insurance could clarify why insurance is important when making decisions.

Im sure the club hasnt refused entry out of malice

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"does the club have less than 25 official members ?

The club has hundreds of members"

Are they all 'official' members ? There is a loophole in the DDA allowing clubs with less than 25 'official members' exemption.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Thats neither here nor there, insurers put guidelines in place, if guidelines were ignored and a fire was to break out which resulted in OP death for example, all hell would break loose as to why guidelines ignored. "

I can tell you with some certainty that if a condition of insurance (and it would be far more than a 'guideline') was breached and anyone died the insurance would be invalid. So if the condition is no disabled people and one was there and an ensuing fire caused a death (anyone not just the disabled person) the club would have no insurance and be operating illegally as well as the owners being Bankrupted.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"does the club have less than 25 official members ?

The club has hundreds of members

Are they all 'official' members ? There is a loophole in the DDA allowing clubs with less than 25 'official members' exemption."

They all have to fill out membership forms and have membership cards so yes they are official members, everyone of them

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

That is pretty much as I thought

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"if they have no insurance and the premises is very difficult to manoeuvre, it is a difficult one. In the event of an emergency and people had to leave quickly and they have no evacuation plan, are people prepared to wait and allow a lesser able bodied person more time.

no offence to the OP at all

but that's what it will boil down to.

hope you find another club and have fun

"
if they don't have insurance they shouldn't be operating.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

no offence to the OP at all

but that's what it will boil down to.

hope you find another club and have fun

if they don't have insurance they shouldn't be operating. "

as in, Insurance that covers the OP and any additional requirements needed

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"I have been going to Chams for some years with friends and I have seen people with mobility problems there. Now without knowing both sides let alone hearing the conversation it may well be they have had limitations placed on them by the local Council. Or maybe a Consultant has advised them independently. It may well be an insurance limitation. What I can say is that the club would NOT discriminate against one person simply because they are disabled.

Next we will hear from a single bloke who was denied access that Chams is discriminating against men on the grounds of their gender ...

I will ask a staff member on here if she can shed some light....."

Most balanced post on this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 18:41:56]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OK here is the relevant part of the Equality Act 2010:

"It is unlawful for a private club or other association to discriminate against, harass or victimise an existing or potential member or an associate. (An associate is someone who is not a member but who has some or all of the rights of a member because they are a member of an affiliated private club.) A club cannot refuse membership, or grant membership on less favourable terms (such as by applying different conditions or fees) because the person has a protected characteristic – disability, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex or sexual orientation."

https://www.gov.uk/government/.../attachment.../business-quickstart.pdf

So on that basis the club looks to be in trouble so I am sure they will have gone into this in some detail.

Or some well meaning person on the end of the phone thought the OP might not enjoy herself and said 'best not come' as advice. Whatever it would help if Chams could make a comment.

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 18:45:03]

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

no offence to the OP at all

but that's what it will boil down to.

hope you find another club and have fun

if they don't have insurance they shouldn't be operating. "

They probably have got insurance for able bodied people, please bear in mind when commenting that we only have one side of the story

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

"OK here is the relevant part of the Equality Act 2010:

https://www.gov.uk/government/.../attachment.../business-quickstart.pdf

So on that basis the club looks to be in trouble so I am sure they will have gone into this in some detail.

Or some well meaning person on the end of the phone thought the OP might not enjoy herself and said 'best not come' as advice. Whatever it would help if Chams could make a comment."

well said that man

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 18:41:56]

well said that man "

Sorry had to make a correction to spacing. Its back.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've never been to a club so I'm only commenting after reading the post but the op said that at first age would need to sign disclaimer but then the lady seeked advice and said the insurance would not cover her. I'm wondering then the difference between the clubs disclaimer and thier insurance.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Grrr @ Techmernology! That link should have read:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

apoligies.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"OK here is the relevant part of the Equality Act 2010:

https://www.gov.uk/government/.../attachment.../business-quickstart.pdf

So on that basis the club looks to be in trouble so I am sure they will have gone into this in some detail.

Or some well meaning person on the end of the phone thought the OP might not enjoy herself and said 'best not come' as advice. Whatever it would help if Chams could make a comment."

They have to make "reasonable adjustments" by law to allow disabled people to join and use the facilities.

If the adjustments they would need to make are not possible or are too extensive to be considered "reasonable", they have not broken the law.

As I said above.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I cannot comment on the incident that took place earlier but the club may have made the decision that in the event of a fire it would potentially be classed as too dangerous for you to be able to leave the building safely The club insurance may not actually cover provisions for disabilities like your because unfortunately it is not friendly for disabled users ( not a lot of clubs are totally disable adapted).

As for using the stairs as had been said already they are very steep and are often crowded ( with people pushing past one another to get up or down) - this may have been another risk assessment that has been made and the club (and maybe its insurers) have decided its too much of a danger to allow someone up there who is not able bodied.

As for using the facilities downstairs there is only the jacuzzi area which for obvious health and safety reasons would be out if bounds for you any way, as there would be now safe way for you to enter or leave it safely.

If the OP is still not happy with the decision that the member of staff made this afternoon then she could contact the manager for clarification of the clubs disability policy and for a clearer explanation of why they made the decision that it wasnt in either her of the clubs interest to allow her to join

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

Well would be interesting to hear from the club

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By *luffy_bunniesCouple over a year ago

Ilkeston

As others have said -equality act.

Insurance has nothing to do with it.

Pretty shameful.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The act introduces a new concept known as ‘The Protected Characteristics’ and makes it unlawful for any organisation, particularly a private members’ club, to discriminate against any individual possessing one of those protected characteristics.

These are as follows:

i. Age

ii. Disability

iii. Gender reassignment

iv. Marriage and Civil Partnership

v. Race

vi. Religion or belief

vii. Sex

viii. Sexual orientation.

This means clubs are not allowed to discriminate against single men

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By *he PlaygroundsCouple over a year ago

Somewhere Over The Rainbow

You will always be very welcome at any Playgrounds parties we hold at Radlett hunni. We would love to have you xxxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The act introduces a new concept known as ‘The Protected Characteristics’ and makes it unlawful for any organisation, particularly a private members’ club, to discriminate against any individual possessing one of those protected characteristics.

These are as follows:

i. Age

ii. Disability

iii. Gender reassignment

iv. Marriage and Civil Partnership

v. Race

vi. Religion or belief

vii. Sex

viii. Sexual orientation.

This means clubs are not allowed to discriminate against single men

That's a brilliant piece of news there. Maybe I'd change my mind about UK swinger clubs now provided they actually took what you just mentioned seriously!

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

These are as follows:

i. Age

ii. Disability

iii. Gender reassignment

iv. Marriage and Civil Partnership

v. Race

vi. Religion or belief

vii. Sex

viii. Sexual orientation.

This means clubs are not allowed to discriminate against single men

That's a brilliant piece of news there. Maybe I'd change my mind about UK swinger clubs now provided they actually took what you just mentioned seriously! "

Actually if you read further into the same equality act, it says that clubs can offer discounts and incentives to under represented people within your list.

"There are some people with protected characteristics who are disadvantaged or under-represented, or have particular needs linked to their characteristics. Positive action provisions in the Act enable private clubs and other associations to take proportionate steps to encourage membership among under-represented groups, or to help people overcome their disadvantages, or to meet their needs" . The steps that can be taken, include offerings discounts and concessions to these identified groups of people"

(Taken from the Government Equalities Office)

So before all the single guys jump on this, what some clubs out there do by charging single guys lots more than couples for entry (on the whole, we don't) is perfectly legal.

Getting back to disabled people enjoying a swingers club...the stance I take at our place is, I don't know your disability, you do! You know your limitations if any. So I tell our potential guest what our set up is like and let them decide for themselves if they are 1/ able to get around the building ok and 2/able to exit the building quickly without endangering other people.

We have accessible areas in the club, including loos/showers on groundfloor level. We haev made reasonable adjustments to enable everybody to enjoy Townhouse within the guidelines given to us. Ramps need a huge amount of floor space due to gradient so we don't have the space for a ramp into some areas of the club, but it doesn't make the buidling inaccessible.

So, I place the decision on whether someone can enjoy our facilities in their lap. Who am I to decide if someone is able to get up the stairs and walk around the building? Our insurance doesn't have a disability clause, it does state that we should make reasonable adjustments based on recommendation and these adjustments need to be kept safe and user friendly. The insurance company absolutely WOULD NOT state that a disabled person is not allowed on the premises; if they did they would have a massive lawsuit on their hands.

Sorry you had this experience OP xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Kinky kelly I've only got one leg and get around with crutches my job doesn't need special insurance I live alone and drive just like anyone else

it sounds to me that this club does not want any one with a disability on the premises "

I'm disabled and i go so that's not true

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By *antonkid1955Man over a year ago

cardiff

you could sue them under the Disability Discrimnation Act.,Im sure they would make an out of court settlement to you for fear of damaging their reputation

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sometimes the issue is not so much about how a person can enter but how will they exit quickly in case of an emergency (fire, bomb threat, building collapse, etc)

At work, people who have serious mobility issues are given desks on lower floors

It is all about making reasonable adjustments and not about making adjustment no matter what the cost

Arrrrrrr I live alone I travel the world alone yet I can enter a club what a very sad world we live in

I can see the clubs point of _iew if they are saying they won't let you for H&S reasons. I do go Chams but never use my crutches there as the amount of steep stairs make it impossible for me to use them. Instead i hold onto my husband and use the stairs like that.

When at football stadiums with my crutchess i am not allowed in some areas because if it needed to be evacuated i would be in the way of everyone and it would be dangerous for everyone including me. That could be their reasoning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

no offence to the OP at all

but that's what it will boil down to.

hope you find another club and have fun

This is what i meant with my much longer post lol.

It is more about the risk to others if they need to evacuate the place.

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman over a year ago

Deviant City

I'm disabled, last time I went, I had to sign a disclaimer form not to use the stairs or jacuzzi.

Someone sued them,that's why. As soon as they saw my walking stick, it made them rather nervous and was I told to stay downstairs. That was last April, not been since.

The only 2 clubs I feel welcomed with my walking stick is Townhouse, Gatehouse and Cupids. They go out of the way to make sure I can park close to the building and I'm safe inside. I tend to take my carer with me at the moment, unless I have friends to help me manage stairs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"OK here is the relevant part of the Equality Act 2010:

https://www.gov.uk/government/.../attachment.../business-quickstart.pdf

So on that basis the club looks to be in trouble so I am sure they will have gone into this in some detail.

Or some well meaning person on the end of the phone thought the OP might not enjoy herself and said 'best not come' as advice. Whatever it would help if Chams could make a comment.

They have to make "reasonable adjustments" by law to allow disabled people to join and use the facilities.

If the adjustments they would need to make are not possible or are too extensive to be considered "reasonable", they have not broken the law.

As I said above."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In the event of a fire id imagine a women and man fucking would be more of a challenge to get out the club then a disabled person. Especially if the guy was about to shoot

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"In the event of a fire id imagine a women and man fucking would be more of a challenge to get out the club then a disabled person. Especially if the guy was about to shoot

I was in a club twice last year when fire alarms rang, not one person evacuated, including those not playing

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman over a year ago

Deviant City

I've had owners of clubs make sure they show me the fire exits, so I know to get to one if ever needed. I'm fine with the help of my carer or trusted friends, I can't go out on my own at the moment.

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By *umpkinMan over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

From memory which could be wrong! Two steps to get into the door, stairs to get to the changing area, two downstairs toilets but one through the area near the zaccuzzis so may well be wet and slippery surface, not sure about the other toilet how small it is (small step to get into?), one area that could be OK for play is the curtained-off area at the end of the right hand side of the down stairs bit. The floor down stairs is carpeted but does have some strange gradients which could catch the unwary.

I personally wouldn`t have recommended Chams Darlaston for the OP to visit given the category of her disability and I`m not too surprised that whoever was on the door refused the OP entry. Just one question to the OP. Did the person on the door actually see you and be able to make an assessment of your ability? Might have made a difference!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"you could sue them under the Disability Discrimnation Act.,Im sure they would make an out of court settlement to you for fear of damaging their reputation"

Always someone to shout 'Sue Them!'

Are you a Solicitor after some work? Given you don't know the full story, what was said by whom and when and what the Club actually said and why they said whatever ... I wish you luck in any Court of Law ....

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By *umpkinMan over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

"From memory which could be wrong! Two steps to get into the door, stairs to get to the changing area, two downstairs toilets but one through the area near the zaccuzzis so may well be wet and slippery surface, not sure about the other toilet how small it is (small step to get into?), one area that could be OK for play is the curtained-off area at the end of the right hand side of the down stairs bit. The floor down stairs is carpeted but does have some strange gradients which could catch the unwary.

Correction! One lot of stairs and two or three steps to get the last bit into the changing rooms.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Getting in under calm circumstances is easier than getting out in dense smoke and when panic sets in. Unfair as it may appear, owners of these clubs are not just covering their back-sides but also ensuring that a disabled person is not put at any risk. If they were money-grabbing b**tards, they would have taken the OPs money and to damn with her safety

By the way, I have never been to this club so don't know what the owners know

To the person who thinks the club can be sued; think again. No club is under any obligation to spend tens of thousands of pounds so that a dozen or so disabled people can leave it safely in case of an emergency. If that were the case, the building inspector would close down hundreds of thousands of other businesses too throughout this country

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By *exyfuncouple-40Couple over a year ago

Bloxham

Think this is a tricky one as club owners have duty of care to make sure everyone safe in side their club . Sure on face of it everyone says they wrong but always 2 sides to story. Also it's a private members club and would think rules for entry differant to public place ? Even big football stadiums have zones for wheel chair users or less able people . Maybe best to find a club whom would readly accept the less able. Know its a pain but prob best all round

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By *piritsonfabCouple over a year ago

Nottingham

Seems very harsh - the OP knows her disability best so telling her she wouldn't be able to use the stairs or jacuzzi is a bit daft, presumably she manages to get in the bath ok?

However, chams, whilst having unique charms, isn't a patch on Liberty Elite, which has a disabled ramp and will do all they can to help everyone....

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Seems very harsh - the OP knows her disability best so telling her she wouldn't be able to use the stairs or jacuzzi is a bit daft, presumably she manages to get in the bath ok?

However, chams, whilst having unique charms, isn't a patch on Liberty Elite, which has a disabled ramp and will do all they can to help everyone....

And therein lies the problem; who will do a risk assessment or a care needs assessment. Will clubs have care assessors on their staff or will the onus be on the client?

Yes, it is an issue which needs addressing. In an ideal world, everyone will be able to access every nook and cranny of the world regardless. In practice, that is simply not possible

And access is not the whole story. Safety is too, if not the bigger issue

The OP is unhappy. I can understand that. I too would be unhappy. But two hours of fun do not outweigh my safety or the OPs safety. Call me a crackpot, but that is how I think

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By *umpkinMan over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

Having read this thread again it seems that the person who refused this lady entry did NOT see her so made an assessment by a description and erred on the side of caution which sounds like they took the lesser of two "evils". Another phrase used by Annie that there may have been reason for refusal because there may not have been a SAFE way of evacuating the OP from the building should the need arise.

It is very difficult to make a correct assessment of the situation without knowing the exact capabilities of the OP and the implications on Chams insurance or what restrictions the insurance company may have put on the building. One sadly late friend of mine suffered from MS and as much as she liked Chams, wouldn`t go because although she had days when she could manage to get around the club, there were days when she knew that she wouldn`t!

With the greatest of respect to the OP, I think you would have struggled to get into the club, you may have got around to a point and even if it was "do-able" I still think it would have been a struggle!

Yes, I`m "defending" the club`s decision but after having so much safety training rammed into me when I was w*rking and knowing the club quite well, I can fully see where the club is coming from.

I do feel for the OP and I`m sorry she feels hard done by but if her friend knew the club I`m sure she would have made a different and more informed decision of which club to attend

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Had there been a response from the club? If not it seems a bit harsh to be criticising the club so much on this thread.

Yes, disability discrimination is horrible and should not be tolerated, however private clubs have the right to choose their own rules, and if they believe a venue is unsafe for any person then they have a reponaibility not to put that person at risk in case of emergency.

I would want to hear the other side of the story before making a judgement, as should others in my opinion.

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By *exyfuncouple-40Couple over a year ago

Bloxham

"Had there been a response from the club? If not it seems a bit harsh to be criticising the club so much on this thread.

I would want to hear the other side of the story before making a judgement, as should others in my opinion."

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By *rummiePartyManMan over a year ago

birmingham

"...there may have been reason for refusal because there may not have been a SAFE way of evacuating the OP from the building should the need arise...

I wonder how much of a disadvantage it is to be on sticks compared to being tied-up and chained to some of that BDSM aparatus?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"...there may have been reason for refusal because there may not have been a SAFE way of evacuating the OP from the building should the need arise...

I wonder how much of a disadvantage it is to be on sticks compared to being tied-up and chained to some of that BDSM aparatus?

It would take a less than a minute for 1/2 people to release someone from those but people with difficulties walking up a huge flight of steep stairs a lot more than that, especially if there are other people pushing their way around them, not counting the risk they could fall or trip or need help up them. I don't know the op's disabilities but when I was in crutches for 6 months I was slow on stairs even with practice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just a different approach...how about the site admin add to club pages whether they accept people with disabilities and if so which ones. Not all club premises are DDA compliant, or need to be if using members clubs exemptions. However a grade or idea of what to expect could be seen as positive??

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

Thats a good idea

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

That is a good idea

Not even every London Underground tube station is accessible to every disabled person; there are little icons on the tube map next to those which are. In time, most will be accessible but until then, it is good to know which ones aren't (or are)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"...there may have been reason for refusal because there may not have been a SAFE way of evacuating the OP from the building should the need arise...

I wonder how much of a disadvantage it is to be on sticks compared to being tied-up and chained to some of that BDSM aparatus?

That's why BDSM clubs have emergency scissors and bolt cutters nearby. Paramedics shears cut through rope without any struggle at all.

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By *aGaGagging for itCouple over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

"Getting in under calm circumstances is easier than getting out in dense smoke and when panic sets in. Unfair as it may appear, owners of these clubs are not just covering their back-sides but also ensuring that a disabled person is not put at any risk. If they were money-grabbing b**tards, they would have taken the OPs money and to damn with her safety

By the way, I have never been to this club so don't know what the owners know

Firstly, well done mods for removing an offensive comment from one of the other posts!

There seems to be some misinformation and quite a bit of assumption on the issues here, which isn't intended to be a criticism of anyone's _iews or comments. My two jobs , very much relate to the main issues expressed, so I hope I can bring a bit of clarity.

The Equality Act 2010 replaced the disability Discrimination Act. The EA relates to private members clubs and the requirement for such a club is to make 'reasonable adjustments' so that people are not discriminated against on the grounds of their disability. The assessment of 'reasonable' can include the cost of such works, so there is no requirement for a club to spend an extortionate amount of money. Building Inspectors (or Building Control Officers, do not police the matter and therefore would not close buildings down in the case of non-compliance.

The club should (its a legal obligation to) have a fire risk assessment in place. This should include the evacuation of people with disabilities, taking into account, the whole access issues, what disabilities that people using the facilities might have. One recognised way for people with ambulant disabilities is to have a refuge area, which includes a telephone. If the club made such provision, but the user was not satisfied with this, the club would have fulfilled their obligation in this regard and it would then be the user's choice as to whether or not they use the premises.

We have only heard one side of the story, and whilst not certain, it seems that the club might not be aware of their obligations and duty of care. I would suggest that the club is contacted and the issue discussed in a friendly manner, asked what their policy is and any obligations / duty of care issues pointed out.

Perhaps a practical thing to do at any similar situation in the future, would be to contact the club in advance and discuss its accessibility, as well as its obligations (if necessary).

If a person feels that the requirements of the EA have been breached, the person concerned can claim through the Courts, though discussions and mediation is also encouraged. And finally, it is worth remembering that disability is not just about wheelchair users / people with ambulant disabilities, but can also relate to a whole host of other physical, mental, emotional and psychological disabilities too.

Hope this helps.

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman over a year ago

stourbridge area

OP .... take your business somewhere else ...

I wouldnt want to go back there ......x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think people are being harsh on chams here.

although it may sound like discrimination, one persons right to enter a club does not trump everyone else's right to safety in case of an emergency.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think people are being harsh on chams here.

although it may sound like discrimination, one persons right to enter a club does not trump everyone else's right to safety in case of an emergency. "

I think you are quite right in saying that one persons right of entry does not trump the safety of everyone else.

But, I do feel that in this day and age that clubs should make every effort to ensure that everyone who wants to attend can. Being disabled should not stand in the way of the right to enjoy life. I think that every club should make the effort to ensure that disabled access is available.

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman over a year ago

Deviant City

"Seems very harsh - the OP knows her disability best so telling her she wouldn't be able to use the stairs or jacuzzi is a bit daft, presumably she manages to get in the bath ok?

However, chams, whilst having unique charms, isn't a patch on Liberty Elite, which has a disabled ramp and will do all they can to help everyone....

That was me who was told not to use the stairs or jacuzzi. I have a disabled wet room as I can't get into a bath but can manage the Jacuzzis as I can walk into it and there are grab rails. Plus always someone who holds out a helping hand.

I won't go back until I've had my next spinal operation as at the mo I need my carer with me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"you could sue them under the Disability Discrimnation Act.,Im sure they would make an out of court settlement to you for fear of damaging their reputation"

OP it's this act quoted above that you need to look at and use. It is specific to your situation also there's a charity you can contact whi might support you in getting what you want...it's called Outsiders (Google outsiders charity and then email them) I'm guessing what you want is being allowed access?

I would fight this. I think you deserve better. But equally importantly they are breaking the law.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the outsiders website you'll find a link to a phone number for the 'sex and disability helpline' it's this you need.

Please use them- they are a fantastic organisation and will help you xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/02/16 16:25:28]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think people are being harsh on chams here.

although it may sound like discrimination, one persons right to enter a club does not trump everyone else's right to safety in case of an emergency. "

The thing is though it's not too trumps. It's about everyone's ability regardless of their status to access. The responsibility rests with the club and it's enshrined in law.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OP I'm really pissed off about this. The disability discrimination act was amended in 2006 to include 'disabled rights in relation to private clubs'. Please google that phrase it will lead you to the relevant fact sheet. They cannot refuse you entry or membership.

PM me if you want to chat or want support xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"OP I'm really pissed off about this. The disability discrimination act was amended in 2006 to include 'disabled rights in relation to private clubs'. Please google that phrase it will lead you to the relevant fact sheet. They cannot refuse you entry or membership.

PM me if you want to chat or want support xxx"

So https://m.fabswingers.com/clubs/1015

Can refuse non elite members , but can not refuse disabled members ? Are you saying that ?

Also if I was a rival club, or had a bad time at a club, or was just a mean bastard, one could leave a re_iew as an unverified person on a swingers forum claiming either a disabled issue or racial issue to try to discredit that club (not saying what's happened here)

Or perhaps untrained member of staff gave the information to OP, honest mistake nothing sinister

Let's get off the high horse until the facts are known, and let's not be offended in others behalf

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"This sounds dreadful but I'm loathe to comment without knowing both sides of the story."

I was about to say the same thing.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"This sounds dreadful but I'm loathe to comment without knowing both sides of the story.

I was about to say the same thing."

People should hear both sides before assuming discrimination

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

There's a huge amount of speculation and stupidity on this thread.

Unless we know the exact conversation we don't have a clue as to what's happening, it could all be a story or it could be a law that's been broken.

Who knows?

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"There's a huge amount of speculation and stupidity on this thread.

Unless we know the exact conversation we don't have a clue as to what's happening, it could all be a story or it could be a law that's been broken.

Who knows?"

Agree

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By *ife2shortCouple over a year ago

Cheltenham

not a surprise- its a crap club. You darent leave a negative feedback on the club re_iews as loads of fabbers' love it'

We went one one week and there was no electricity so tubs didnt work, no lights, real fire hazard as candles lit but re_iews said absolutley brilliant night.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

Don't think a club can be blamed for power cut though, and just because you didn't have a good time that night doesn't mean others didn't have a great night, and before you ask, no im not a regular though, the club i think is ok just not my personal favourite but by no means my worst club either

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"There's a huge amount of speculation and stupidity on this thread.

Unless we know the exact conversation we don't have a clue as to what's happening, it could all be a story or it could be a law that's been broken.

Who knows?"

Totally agree. We've never been to Chams's, so have no opinion on them or indeed th OP. It is a bit much suggesting the OP should be suing or expecting an out of court settlement.

Perhaps we could remove the hyperbole and let the OP and the Club discuss it privately. We only have one side and jumping on one side or the other is a little to sensationalist.

We all need clubs to exist, they need to be fair in the way they treat people and we could all do with taking a step back to allow rational discussion.

Just our opinion of course

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"not a surprise- its a crap club. You darent leave a negative feedback on the club re_iews as loads of fabbers' love it'

We went one one week and there was no electricity so tubs didnt work, no lights, real fire hazard as candles lit but re_iews said absolutley brilliant night. "

I'm a regular there and fully aware people have different _iews of a club, so would never give anyone grief for what they thought.

Like stated the powercut wasn't their fault and they resolved it best they could, no-one was locked in and refused exit. People did leave feedback that night as positive, but that was their choice, maybe they liked it or appreciated what the staff had done to try amend the situation.

I would imagine clubs would appreciate newbie feedback, so they can see how they feel, rather than hearing me (a regular) say how good it is, as they like to draw in New people, but if they're failing to do so then they'd want to know why.

I've been to 5 clubs so far and chams is my favourite, but like I told them in person there is a need for New faces, especially younger ones.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"not a surprise- its a crap club. You darent leave a negative feedback on the club re_iews as loads of fabbers' love it'

We went one one week and there was no electricity so tubs didnt work, no lights, real fire hazard as candles lit but re_iews said absolutley brilliant night.

I'm a regular there and fully aware people have different _iews of a club, so would never give anyone grief for what they thought.

I've been to 5 clubs so far and chams is my favourite, but like I told them in person there is a need for New faces, especially younger ones. "

We are relatively new members of Chams (6 months or so), and at least one of us could be considered "young" and "hot"

- we absolute love the place and have never failed to have an amazing night there.

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By *ife2shortCouple over a year ago

Cheltenham

Here we go- inundated with the defenders of Chams!!! Thats why a few of us dont bother posting in Club re_iews

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Here we go- inundated with the defenders of Chams!!! Thats why a few of us dont bother posting in Club re_iews"

Same for most clubs, I love it when someone posts a bad re_iew about le Boudoir, I know 10 posters will jump right on there back and call them crazy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Here we go- inundated with the defenders of Chams!!! Thats why a few of us dont bother posting in Club re_iews"

I've not defended it at all, I said people should give re_iews of how they felt, so the clubs know what may be going wrong if they're struggling to acquire new members.

I saw this post when it was first posted but didn't comment, as I wasn't aware of the full story and not knowledgeable in the law area of this specific post. I am aware that I wouldn't recommend this club to a disabled person, but 3 out of 5 of the clubs Ive visited I wouldn't recommend to a disabled user.

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"Here we go- inundated with the defenders of Chams!!! Thats why a few of us dont bother posting in Club re_iews

Same for most clubs, I love it when someone posts a bad re_iew about le Boudoir, I know 10 posters will jump right on there back and call them crazy

Criticism of the club & supporters!? We haven't been. Our point is that clubs are an intrinsic part of our lifestyle, they are not inherently bad! Neither are they always good, but equally club re_iews need to be looked at on average, rather than one high or low.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Arrrrrrr I live alone I travel the world alone yet I can enter a club what a very sad world we live in

RESPECT

we need more girls like you in this sad world, go for it girl, love your attitude

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By *izzabelle and well hungCouple over a year ago

Edinburgh.

"It's a private members club so the usual rules don't apply.

And as well as an awful lot of narrow, steep stairways there are also differences in level throughout the club including on the ground floor. Some of these are ramps some steps.

As a result I can understand their response when officially asked if it's suitable for disabled users.

However if you are confident you can cope with all this with no assistance from staff then consider just turning up.

Btw all the play rooms, showers, locker rooms and smoking area are all upstairs."

The law dose apply in this case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To the person who started this discussion:

I am really sorry that this happened to you. I think you should call up this club and ask them again politely the real reason why they do not want you there. Threatening people with the law never helps. It is always better to calmly discuss things with people. You will be surprised that even those whose prejudices are hardened will listen to a calm voice.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

PM me if you want to chat or want support xxx"

This has been covered. They have to make "reasonable adjustments" to allow disabled people to use the club. If they can't make adequate changes to allow safe use of the club, or what is necessary is too expensive or too extensive to be classed as reasonable, the club is not breaking the law.

*IF* the club is suitable for safe use by disabled people they are not allowed, by law, to exclude people on disability grounds.

In this case the club IS NOT suited to safe use by people with certain disabilities. Depending on the specifics of the case, they may have broken the law or they may not.

If they let someone in knowing it wouldn't be safe and there was an accident, they'd be open to being sued!

Apparently they can't win.

There's so much misleading advice on this thread it's untrue.

We only have part of the story.

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By *AMES19620Man over a year ago

newport

Let's hope the op and club can sort this out without any influence from up

I can understand she was very pissed off and had to put it into words to warn people with disabilities

The only one that made sence yet again was the townhouse think the op should visit that club sure she will be well looked after

Heart goes out to you OP good luck and have lots of sexy fun

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"you could sue them under the Disability Discrimnation Act.,Im sure they would make an out of court settlement to you for fear of damaging their reputation"
Or maybe the plaintiff might up end bankrupt if they lost the case. Hardly a very pleasant suggestion.

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By *asker10Man over a year ago

london

Love the protection from people who clearly play their, and doing there up most to sound 'impartial'. Grow up, admit that chams are wrong! Clearly s case of discrimination. Op is clearly able to get around and would have had a perfectly safe time. If I played there regularly I would definately raise the issue with them, thought these types off issues were a thing of the past. Good luck OP, sure you would get in if you went back and explained how appalled you were. X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Love the protection from people who clearly play their, and doing there up most to sound 'impartial'. Grow up, admit that chams are wrong! Clearly s case of discrimination. Op is clearly able to get around and would have had a perfectly safe time. If I played there regularly I would definately raise the issue with them, thought these types off issues were a thing of the past. Good luck OP, sure you would get in if you went back and explained how appalled you were. X"

How can it clearly be a case of discrimination when we have only heard one side of a story and not both?

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

Let me be devils advocate here; what if the OP is telling a pack of lies because she has some issue with something or somebody to do with Chams?

Any chance those of you taking sides on an issue we don't even know genuinely exists would actually engage your thought processes? Or how about actually reading the whole thread?

Radical eh?

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By *eardsandboobsCouple over a year ago

north of lincoln

In the initial post she said she called them first , so surely the fact she called must have meant she suspected there might be an issue in the first place and thought there was a chance she wouldn't get in. otherwise she would have just turned up like anyone else.

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"In the initial post she said she called them first , so surely the fact she called must have meant she suspected there might be an issue in the first place and thought there was a chance she wouldn't get in. otherwise she would have just turned up like anyone else. "

THINK! We have absolutely no idea of the situation, it could be a story, it could be true. We just don't know.

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By *litterbabeWoman over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

If it's my first time going to any club I'll always phone to make sure that I understand completely what I have to bring in terms of ID and dress code excetera, and that there is enough room. I know some clubs have nights where you do have to apply for the guestlist first so I always make sure I know what I need to do for my first time at a new venue.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's good to see so many people are so passionate about disability access and the issues facing the disabled.

The reality is that many building's are nor suitable for disabled access. Businesses have a responsibility to provide 'reasonable provision' in older buildings that is often not practical or logistically possible.

Yes it sucks that the OP couldn't go to a swinging club but in a world where less than a quarter of London underground stations have disabled access and 10s of thousands of businesses including many modern high street stores make shocking providions fir tge disabked, a little perspective is possibly required. Particularly as from the posts describing Chams (I've never been and have no desire too)the layout is the issue not the staff

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By *agicfingerslovelyMan over a year ago

Rugby

Could I suggest to Chams that they make contact with this lady asp to resolve this issue and give thought to engaging other swingers with disabilities about how to deal with these sort of enquiries including ways that the club can fulfill it's very good including practice ever better - their are ways to improve access at Chams and use knowledge and the good will of disabled swingers to do so - it's the tone of being banned that is likely the most grating without recourse to apparent problem solving.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"Could I suggest to Chams that they make contact with this lady asp to resolve this issue and give thought to engaging other swingers with disabilities about how to deal with these sort of enquiries including ways that the club can fulfill it's very good including practice ever better - their are ways to improve access at Chams and use knowledge and the good will of disabled swingers to do so - it's the tone of being banned that is likely the most grating without recourse to apparent problem solving."

Reading the thread it appears other disabled people use Chams but go with a carer/partner as some areas are inaccessible/difficult with their disability.

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By *requent_FerryersCouple over a year ago

Norwich to Great Yarmouth (by river)

Firstly, we have never been to Chams, but have a couple of very close friends who love the place and always talk affectionately about the club, staff, clientele, experiences.

Secondly, we do not know the OP apart from the scant information on her profile and from what we have read here.

What we do know is that there is a problem, perceived, real, fictitious or malicious it matters not. However, there is a problem which needs addressing.

So it is with great surprise that in the three days that this thread has been going, there seems to be a reluctance for the club to comment. Have none of the Chams Fan Club contacted their club and alerted them to this discussion?

Maybe we should all await their input before mounting our magnificent tall steeds (high horses) and parading majestically around the room?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Firstly, we have never been to Chams, but have a couple of very close friends who love the place and always talk affectionately about the club, staff, clientele, experiences.

Secondly, we do not know the OP apart from the scant information on her profile and from what we have read here.

What we do know is that there is a problem, perceived, real, fictitious or malicious it matters not. However, there is a problem which needs addressing.

Maybe we should all await their input before mounting our magnificent tall steeds (high horses) and parading majestically around the room?"

I also have never been to this club but I am sure that the club will be aware of this thread. Perhaps they are investigating it, speaking to the OP privately about it and do not wish to comment until this is done or just have no desire to add to this thread.

In the past 3 days I have also not seen an update on the 'alleged' situation from the OP, as to whether she has contacted or been contacted by the club. (I say alleged as nothing is proven, not as a dig to the OP)

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By * Cheeky girl OP Woman over a year ago

Coventry

"Firstly, we have never been to Chams, but have a couple of very close friends who love the place and always talk affectionately about the club, staff, clientele, experiences.

Secondly, we do not know the OP apart from the scant information on her profile and from what we have read here.

What we do know is that there is a problem, perceived, real, fictitious or malicious it matters not. However, there is a problem which needs addressing.

Maybe we should all await their input before mounting our magnificent tall steeds (high horses) and parading majestically around the room?

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't.

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By *requent_FerryersCouple over a year ago

Norwich to Great Yarmouth (by river)

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't."

Then that is a major oversight in our opinion (and we are entitled to an opinion). With that fact in mind we have decided against visiting this club. There are others that seem to regard there (potential) clients with a higher regard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You had a lucky escape, it's a dump!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not sure why the club would be expected to nor see any reason why they should contact anyone in private as a result of a forum thread. They've made their discussion, it's up to the OP to contact them and question them if they're not satisfied

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We've been and enjoyed going to chams for a few years now. We have always found the staff and management to be very friendly and helpful. Now to be honest I have no in depth understanding of the law on this matter but I can easily see the difficulties of getting around chams if you have limited mobility and I'm sure they have there reasons for not allowing you into the club but if you are unhappy why not try and email the club for a more in depth explanation

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't.

I have followed this thread with some interest. What I didn't realise until today was that chams had a profile on the site. I would have thought this would have made it much easier for them to acknowledge the issue and comment on it.

Of course, they are entitled to deal with it privately (albeit it would seem that has not happened either)

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't.

Of course, they are entitled to deal with it privately (albeit it would seem that has not happened either)"

We have no idea that they haven't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Shocking , people with disabilitys are in my eyes some of the strongest willed people on the planet and should not , I repeat SHOULD NOT be discriminated against at all

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't."

Did you let them know that this thread was in existence?

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words of support.

As to whether the club has contacted me in private I'm sorry to say they haven't.

Of course, they are entitled to deal with it privately (albeit it would seem that has not happened either)"

They might not even know this thread exists

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As previously stated by someone else, chams don't discriminate against disabled users as there are some who attend. However, these people are still mobile, but may need assistance. If the OP had told them she was still able to get around the club, I don't believe they would have refused her entry based on her disability.

We are unaware of the full conversation that took place, the member of staff may have believed the OP was unable to get around, so felt the club wouldn't be suited, as there's not much on the ground floor.

Chams has been around for years, so I'm sure they're fully aware of what they can and can't do, in regards to law.

But as so many of you feel chams should comment on this, I shall message them and inform them of its existence and to clarify the situation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Shocking , people with disabilitys are in my eyes some of the strongest willed people on the planet and should not , I repeat SHOULD NOT be discriminated against at all "

Indeed. So you were party to this conversation then and can therefore say without a shadow of doubt this WAS discrimination ..???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As previously stated by someone else, chams don't discriminate against disabled users as there are some who attend. However, these people are still mobile, but may need assistance. If the OP had told them she was still able to get around the club, I don't believe they would have refused her entry based on her disability.

Chams has been around for years, so I'm sure they're fully aware of what they can and can't do, in regards to law.

But as so many of you feel chams should comment on this, I shall message them and inform them of its existence and to clarify the situation. "

I have mentioned it some time ago to a member of staff on here and she has commented. But this really isn't the place for a Club to engage in a discussion with someone who has been upset. The OP really should have contacted the club directly.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

You had a lucky escape, it's a dump! "

Says the same lady who trolled a Townhouse club thread a few weeks ago when she never even visited the place.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I think people are being harsh on chams here.

although it may sound like discrimination, one persons right to enter a club does not trump everyone else's right to safety in case of an emergency. "

I agree, and chams is set over THREE different floors which means you need to climb 2 flights of stairs to get to the top floor (there are no lifts). There are also various different levels on the floor surface on both the ground floor and the 1st floor.

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By *requent_FerryersCouple over a year ago

Norwich to Great Yarmouth (by river)

"Shocking , people with disabilitys are in my eyes some of the strongest willed people on the planet and should not , I repeat SHOULD NOT be discriminated against at all

Indeed. So you were party to this conversation then and can therefore say without a shadow of doubt this WAS discrimination ..???"

You seem to have much more knowledge about this matter. You are suggesting that it WAS NOT discrimination?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You had a lucky escape, it's a dump!

Says the same lady who trolled a Townhouse club thread a few weeks ago when she never even visited the place.

Thought the exact same thing

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"Shocking , people with disabilitys are in my eyes some of the strongest willed people on the planet and should not , I repeat SHOULD NOT be discriminated against at all

Indeed. So you were party to this conversation then and can therefore say without a shadow of doubt this WAS discrimination ..???

You seem to have much more knowledge about this matter. You are suggesting that it WAS NOT discrimination?"

We have no idea that the conversation actually took place!

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