FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Club Discussion > discrimination

discrimination

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

i am a transsexual woman,i live 24/7 as a woman i work as a woman,i can go any where a cis female can go and not be stopped as its classed as discrimination.Yet there are some clubs out there that would stop me going in!!!

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

If they are private member clubs then they can stop whoever they liked going in, even under the equalities act I believe as long as they can prove that it is a rule for all and no just for one.

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By *bi HaiveMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Cheeseville, Somerset

Have you taken it up directly with the clubs concerned ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

yes i know,but would they dream of stopping a coloured person i think not,the club i go to is like minded and to be honest its near me and i am happy to go there but i know of clubs in lancashire that wouldnt let me in,but its not right

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I can't say that I've ever encountered this, personally. Every place I've gone has been fine apart from 2 and they were justified.

1, there was a big group of us and they had a blanket no group policy, be in stag parties, aliens or Tgirls on a night out,

2, a club in Leeds, where the doorman told us we were more than welcome, but we probably wouldn't like the club as it was more of a rock bar and we'd get looks off people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok. Look I am not the sort who likes to argue for argument sake, and be picky just to get attention.

Both jools and I are very open minded and believe in live and let live ethos, so my comments are not directed at your lifestyle choice.

But having read your profile it seems that you should re read it then read your post.

Point being surely a private club has as much right to let whoever they do or don't want into their club as much as you can choose who you want to meet.

Ie you don't do beard's etc...

Kinda playing devil's advocate but aren't you discriminating yourself?

Personally can't see why they won't let you in but maybe you should ask them?

Happy swinging xx

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"Ok. Look I am not the sort who likes to argue for argument sake, and be picky just to get attention.

Both jools and I are very open minded and believe in live and let live ethos, so my comments are not directed at your lifestyle choice.

But having read your profile it seems that you should re read it then read your post.

Point being surely a private club has as much right to let whoever they do or don't want into their club as much as you can choose who you want to meet.

Ie you don't do beard's etc...

Kinda playing devil's advocate but aren't you discriminating yourself?

Personally can't see why they won't let you in but maybe you should ask them?

Happy swinging xx"

I think personal preference and discrimination are completely different. My OH has a beard and he has never been refused entry to a club because of it

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"yes i know,but would they dream of stopping a coloured person i think not,the club i go to is like minded and to be honest its near me and i am happy to go there but i know of clubs in lancashire that wouldnt let me in,but its not right"

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

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By *adja_lazloCouple over a year ago

Solihull

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

waa going to point that out but beat me to it

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

ive been refused entry one a swingers club, the other a bar in blackpool, the swingers club i reported to licensing and diversity dept, bar in blackpool same but we had been in there hour before and came back with 2 real girls who stayed at our hotel, the complaint i got all 5 to sign, trouble is people moan and dont do anything, complaints come up at annual license renewal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This may get stir The s**t..... But I'm going to put it as I see it.... When it comes to the rules of a private club and presuming you mean swinging club if they deny you access on a certain night let's say a Saturday night which is mainly advertised for couples and single females is it really discrimination if you are pre op or am I completely on the wrong page? Is it really discrimination when they have already highlighted the night advertisement?

Most clubs have different events on different nights a that they are not offending the key audiences that they desire for that night!

Maybe I'm off key but if a night was for tv/ts.. gay/bi male only nights. Wouldn't pre judge I would think the club is trying to provide what the majority audience desires.

Sorry if I'm off key but think about it a little more open.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Would you really want to go to a place that did not want you through the door?

I would rather go somewhere that would guarantee me a welcome and I would be surrounded by like minded people.

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"This may get stir The s**t..... But I'm going to put it as I see it.... When it comes to the rules of a private club and presuming you mean swinging club if they deny you access on a certain night let's say a Saturday night which is mainly advertised for couples and single females is it really discrimination if you are pre op or am I completely on the wrong page? Is it really discrimination when they have already highlighted the night advertisement?

Most clubs have different events on different nights a that they are not offending the key audiences that they desire for that night!

Maybe I'm off key but if a night was for tv/ts.. gay/bi male only nights. Wouldn't pre judge I would think the club is trying to provide what the majority audience desires.

Sorry if I'm off key but think about it a little more open.

The OP is female....if she identifies as female then she is due the same rights against discrimination as any other female. There is no mention of the club having a specific 'night' and if they did so be it....but they should refuse entry to any female not pick and choose

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

when i went to the swingers club in swinton it was a tues night and a bondage demo, nowt on telly so i went there, i can understand certain nights ie lesbian meets or similar, but they had a sign stating no tvs

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Most clubs have different events on different nights a that they are not offending the key audiences that they desire for that night!

Maybe I'm off key but if a night was for tv/ts.. gay/bi male only nights. Wouldn't pre judge I would think the club is trying to provide what the majority audience desires.

Sorry if I'm off key but think about it a little more open.

Understand from personal view... I'm wondering then if club ask for I.D. is it discrimanation then ??

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"i am a transsexual woman,i live 24/7 as a woman i work as a woman,i can go any where a cis female can go and not be stopped as its classed as discrimination.Yet there are some clubs out there that would stop me going in!!!

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

Biologically you are a male and that is the end of that. Your profile is quite discriminatory in who you want to meet and aside from that your market of regular guys and couples who would want to meet you is relatively small anyway.

Instead of getting arsey about places that don't want you because they see you for what you are, not what you think you are. - just go to places that want you and will make you feel welcome.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wonder just how suicidal it would to point out how it is to be a bloke where there's a likelihood in swinging and normal clubs you'll be told no as they don't want to throw their ratio off?

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

Most clubs have different events on different nights a that they are not offending the key audiences that they desire for that night!

Maybe I'm off key but if a night was for tv/ts.. gay/bi male only nights. Wouldn't pre judge I would think the club is trying to provide what the majority audience desires.

Sorry if I'm off key but think about it a little more open.

Understand from personal view... I'm wondering then if club ask for I.D. is it discrimanation then ??"

A passport is a valid form of ID and transsexuals can apply for and get a gender identity card which allows their chosen gender to be assigned - so yes a transsexual can obtain ID show in female as gender

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

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By *amparaWoman over a year ago

biggleswade

i don't think you can change your sex you can live like a female dress like a female have one million operations to try to make you female but you will always be biologically a male simples

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke."

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then."

Yes and there's a difference between some women wearing trousers. I still think they're women.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then.

Yes and there's a difference between some women wearing trousers. I still think they're women.

That would only be the same comparison if the woman wearing the trousers was waiting for a sex change

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

how would they know youre a man if youre a convincing looking female

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then.

Yes and there's a difference between some women wearing trousers. I still think they're women.

That would only be the same comparison if the woman wearing the trousers was waiting for a sex change"

Indeed - one is still a bloke, one is still a woman.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

I've been refused service in several sleepy village pubs because I'm coloured. Albeit multi coloured, apparently 2 of the pubs in question didn't serve bikers, I haven't even got a bike... That's backward..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

Yeah but if you look like a biker you must be a biker right?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then.

Yes and there's a difference between some women wearing trousers. I still think they're women.

That would only be the same comparison if the woman wearing the trousers was waiting for a sex change

Indeed - one is still a bloke, one is still a woman.

Technically yes until the operation...but that wasn't what I meant, but I am guessing it wouldn't matter if it was explained differently from me anyway

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

Yeah but if you look like a biker you must be a biker right?

Only if you've got the mentality of 2 pub landlords in brockenhurst new forest apparently..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, we are "black" people, not "coloured" thanks.

Odd normally village pubs love bikers they know if they get a good reputation it's a lot of custom they can bring in as people stop off on ride outs.

Also the barmen usually love to talk about thier old BSA and how you really had to start worrying when it STOPPED leaking oil :p

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke."

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Difference between somebody doing it for fun and somebody living it etc.

I understand that's different for them, but for me a bloke with a dick is still a bloke.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female."

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

Simply anyone no matter how dressed or what paperworks says if the person has a cock its a bloke.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If they are private member clubs then they can stop whoever they liked going in, even under the equalities act I believe as long as they can prove that it is a rule for all and no just for one. "

What rule would you stop a Trans woman from going into a swinging club unless it is a gay sauna?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

Yep having spent time with quite a few trans people it's clear within seconds that gender is definitely a between your ears issue not a between your legs issue..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a licencee of public house i have the right under law to refuse anyone entrance and i dont have to give a reason you as the customer have to prove i have discriminated against you

All i have to say is "dont like look of you" end of ....

As a personal note we would have let you in and any other tv or ts

Kev

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

Simply anyone no matter how dressed or what paperworks says if the person has a cock its a bloke."

Interesting so a female to male trans person you'd happily call a man?

But not the reverse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

Yep having spent time with quite a few trans people it's clear within seconds that gender is definitely a between your ears issue not a between your legs issue..

I don't doubt the issue lies between their ears in relation to how they identify.

That doesn't alter that physically they are what they are and as another penis in my bed is another man in my bed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting so a female to male trans person you'd happily call a man?

But not the reverse."

?! Do they have a penis?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok. Look I am not the sort who likes to argue for argument sake, and be picky just to get attention.

Both jools and I are very open minded and believe in live and let live ethos, so my comments are not directed at your lifestyle choice.

But having read your profile it seems that you should re read it then read your post.

Point being surely a private club has as much right to let whoever they do or don't want into their club as much as you can choose who you want to meet.

Ie you don't do beard's etc...

Kinda playing devil's advocate but aren't you discriminating yourself?

Personally can't see why they won't let you in but maybe you should ask them?

Happy swinging xx"

It's a preference when it's a choice you make. It's discrimination whem it effects you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting so a female to male trans person you'd happily call a man?

But not the reverse.

?! Do they have a penis?

Yes same as male to female have a vagina after the operations.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

To an establishment though it's what's on the legal documents that would count which says female.

Would you consider somebody with a penis in your bed to be a woman if their documentation was in order?

Yep having spent time with quite a few trans people it's clear within seconds that gender is definitely a between your ears issue not a between your legs issue..

I don't doubt the issue lies between their ears in relation to how they identify.

That doesn't alter that physically they are what they are and as another penis in my bed is another man in my bed.

So your happy with calling them fully female after the ops?

Also how do you class hermaphrodites (not related but interesting)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting so a female to male trans person you'd happily call a man?

But not the reverse.

?! Do they have a penis?

Yes same as male to female have a vagina after the operations.

then they're a man

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some very vile and disturbing comments towards "labelled" individuals, feels like going back to the ice age again..!!! I thought times had changed.

Everybody is different, this is called diversity but we're is the equality..!

Maybe a lack of understanding and education

I'm part of a couple who know what we are looking for but that doesn't mean I would be offended by anyone sat next to me at a bar having a drink in a liberated environment.

To discriminate towards ppl would certainly put me off attending a certain club

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Interesting so a female to male trans person you'd happily call a man?

But not the reverse.

?! Do they have a penis?

Yes same as male to female have a vagina after the operations.

then they're a man"

And the FTM are a woman after the ops?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

hermaphrodite = hermaphrodite

eunuch = eunuch

man = man

woman = woman

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Gender is not a label.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"hermaphrodite = hermaphrodite

eunuch = eunuch

man = man

woman = woman

Eunuchs have a penis so is a man by your earlier terms.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hi Vicky....you are a little minx!

You know I sympathies and listen carefully to the latest events of your journey.....unfortunately I have to say a discrimination law does not stop people discriminating, like laws on drugs and murder do not stop people breaking those laws either. Laws are a kind of deterrent to try to persuade people not do something and if they do not succeed they generally provide recourse to a person who has been or feel they have wronged under that law but ultimately the do not prevent things from happening!

Sorry but, people will continue to discriminate or choose a particular cause of action or like/dislike something (those 3 get blurred so often) because of many reasons....often because things are different to what they are used to (laws of physics and human nature show that there is often resistance to forces of change..... quite often an unjustified fear based on snippets of info whether that info is right or wrong!!), the way they have been brought up and their values and current views, the views shared by people they trust and have educated them or peer and friend pressure .....quite often they know no different or not aware or concerned they may have offended.

The world is changing but often not fast enough for those who feel mistreated....the UK society is very different to the society of the 1950s, 1970s and 1990 etc.......just look at the national view of Mr Turing.....also look at the US who have a black president but from the news you would some time think nothing had changed.

I understand why you have said what you have said and you have to keep chasing your dream and ambition but it doesn't mean other have to listen and abide by your dream.

I will though, try to continue listening carefully and provide support of a friend.

LOL That's my Sunday morning sermon over.

Yes and I know I will leave myself wide open as I get others searching through my profile and saying I'm by no means perfect.....looking forward to the comments and PMs!!! My life , my actions which I take responsibility for and responsibility comes with consequences....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"hermaphrodite = hermaphrodite

eunuch = eunuch

man = man

woman = woman

Eunuchs have a penis so is a man by your earlier terms.

And also a eunuch. I'm not aware there is another type?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"hermaphrodite = hermaphrodite

eunuch = eunuch

man = man

woman = woman

Eunuchs have a penis so is a man by your earlier terms.

And also a eunuch. I'm not aware there is another type?

Gelded is probably what you were going for.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

Forgive me if I get this wrong. I don't think anyone should be able to stop you from any event if your ID documents state that you are female and you want to attend an event which is open to females. Even a private members club would be breaking the law if they did try to stop you

Having said that, I think there will be issues at a swingers club if a man (or woman) approaches you and finds that you have male genitalia instead of female genitalia

No offence, but one does not have sex with ID documents but with a penis or vagina

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"hermaphrodite = hermaphrodite

eunuch = eunuch

man = man

woman = woman"

gelded = gelded

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

I am really quite shocked at the naivity on this thread. Have none of you ever heard of gender dysphoria? A person who knows that they are not the gender they were physically bor into?

I couldn't imagine how devastated I would feel if I truly knew I was a woman, yet society labelled me as a male because of what is between my legs.

If someone lives as a gender 24/7, that is who they are, regardless of their ID. I am not saying the OP has gender dysphoria, but some of your comments about identity based on genitals, really is quite shocking and ignorant in an age when we know so much about gender dysphoria.

I have many many trans friends, some of them battle daily with the ignorance of others and all it would take is some basic education on the subject to put all of this to rest.

Somebody at the beginning said that the OP being trans is a 'lifestyle choice'. NO IT ISN'T. Choosing to be a swinger is a lifestyle choice. Someone who believes they are a woman in a mans body cannot help this and would have fought inner demons for years to finally accept who they are. It isn't a choice! It is an inner most need that can only be fought for so long. I think you are getting confused between a cross dresser who only dresses in the opposite sex occasionally but lives in their born gender and those who live 24/7 as a trans female/male.

As for clubs not accepting people from the trans community, you are losing out on some of the nicest people I have come across, who just want to be accepted. We have a massive trans membership and our members are more than used to seeing people from the trans community on every night. In fact, we clearly say to people who are new, if you have a problem with trans people, then we are not the club for you.

Somebody said that a private members club cannot refuse a trans people. Actually they can. A private members club can refuse entry to anydody it wishes with no explanation. A lot of clubs run specific nights for certain groups of the community. So, an all male night for instance, would stop a female walking through the door and they can stipulate if the males should be bi/gay or straight and if Trans males are welcome who are pre op. A private members club can do anything it wants where events are concerned and this is one of the privileges of yourself a 'private members club'.

My bug bare is that many clubs call themselves private members clubs to use these privileges and 'should' take member details of everybody who walks through the door, yet they don't. So they are enjoying these privileges without upholding the 'member' aspect.

My recent chat to licensing though, has told me that this will not be allowed for much longer and the councils will be clamping down on so called private members clubs.

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"To me a bloke in a dress is still a bloke.

There is a difference between a pre OP transexual to a man dressing up in womens clothing now and then."

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

Sorry about some of the missing letters in my above post; I was typing quickly and didn't check my post first! lol

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"Some very vile and disturbing comments towards "labelled" individuals, feels like going back to the ice age again..!!! I thought times had changed.

Everybody is different, this is called diversity but we're is the equality..!

Maybe a lack of understanding and education

I'm part of a couple who know what we are looking for but that doesn't mean I would be offended by anyone sat next to me at a bar having a drink in a liberated environment.

To discriminate towards ppl would certainly put me off attending a certain club

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"Sorry about some of the missing letters in my above post; I was typing quickly and didn't check my post first! lol

I do that.....I get so caught up in getting what I want to say down quickly and sometimes when I feel very strongly about something I have more thoughts than my fingers can keep up with

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gender is not a label."

Gender is a social construction, which means people make up their own ideas about how it should be.

I was not born wearing holdups, a peep hole bra and crotch-less panties. It is not in my DNA to earn less than men and to wear skirts.

Men were not born holding spears or with a six pack. Men were not all born predators or as potential rapists.

Society puts labels on genders and tells people how they should behave. So unfortunately you are very wrong, it is a label and you are just following the status quo in your comments.

OP confuses you as these very firm labels in your head and it can be hard to become open minded enough to accept she fits none of them.

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

"Sorry about some of the missing letters in my above post; I was typing quickly and didn't check my post first! lol

I do that.....I get so caught up in getting what I want to say down quickly and sometimes when I feel very strongly about something I have more thoughts than my fingers can keep up with

Yes, my fingers often work faster than my brain!!! haha

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By *orthwest_cplCouple over a year ago

Stretford

The ignorance about TS issues on this thread is staggering. It's no wonder many people with gender dysphoria are driven to suicide when the attitudes displayed by so many here are reflecting a group that should be more aware of sexuality and gender issues than the general public.

How many of you saying cock = man have actually spoken to a TS - not a TV or CD. I would suspect none judging by your comments. Have we entered a time warp and are in 1915 rather than 2015?

To the OP, we've been told about the club we assume you're talking about. They refused entry to a fully transitioned friend of ours. Maybe you dodged a bullet by not getting through their door.

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"The ignorance about TS issues on this thread is staggering. It's no wonder many people with gender dysphoria are driven to suicide when the attitudes displayed by so many here are reflecting a group that should be more aware of sexuality and gender issues than the general public.

How many of you saying cock = man have actually spoken to a TS - not a TV or CD. I would suspect none judging by your comments. Have we entered a time warp and are in 1915 rather than 2015?

To the OP, we've been told about the club we assume you're talking about. They refused entry to a fully transitioned friend of ours. Maybe you dodged a bullet by not getting through their door."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gender is not a label.

Gender is a social construction, which means people make up their own ideas about how it should be.

I was not born wearing holdups, a peep hole bra and crotch-less panties. It is not in my DNA to earn less than men and to wear skirts.

Men were not born holding spears or with a six pack. Men were not all born predators or as potential rapists.

Society puts labels on genders and tells people how they should behave. So unfortunately you are very wrong, it is a label and you are just following the status quo in your comments.

OP confuses you as these very firm labels in your head and it can be hard to become open minded enough to accept she fits none of them.

I agree there is much nonsense that stems from cultural norms.

However basic biology suggests you are wrong. Men have a penis. Women do not. If this were not so why would some go to the pain and trauma of having an operation to change their gender?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

could the club be named here.... because I would like to hear their side of this....

or would be counted as name and shame....

because there is a huge different to the so called bloke in a dress.. and a person going thru the transisitons and going the the long and hard tasks of getting official documents changed.....

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By *orthwest_cplCouple over a year ago

Stretford

"However basic biology suggests you are wrong. Men have a penis. Women do not. If this were not so why would some go to the pain and trauma of having an operation to change their gender?"

They are not changing gender, they are changing their body to match their gender.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"However basic biology suggests you are wrong. Men have a penis. Women do not. If this were not so why would some go to the pain and trauma of having an operation to change their gender?

They are not changing gender, they are changing their body to match their gender."

Again.. in my bed with a penis - man.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many of you saying cock = man have actually spoken to a TS - not a TV or CD. I would suspect none judging by your comments. Have we entered a time warp and are in 1915 rather than 2015?

To the OP, we've been told about the club we assume you're talking about. They refused entry to a fully transitioned friend of ours. Maybe you dodged a bullet by not getting through their door."

again I ask, how do they know its a man? surely if "she" looks feminine how can they possibly know its a man at the door?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Again.. in my bed with a penis - man.

so do you only accept them as being a woman once they have gone thru all the required operations.....

so you are then in effect stricter than the law is... getting offical documents change to reflect a gender change isn't an easy process......

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By *olfandRedRidingHoodCouple over a year ago

Colchester

[Removed by poster at 03/05/15 14:13:37]

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By *olfandRedRidingHoodCouple over a year ago

Colchester

"I am really quite shocked at the naivity on this thread. Have none of you ever heard of gender dysphoria? A person who knows that they are not the gender they were physically bor into?

I couldn't imagine how devastated I would feel if I truly knew I was a woman, yet society labelled me as a male because of what is between my legs.

I have many many trans friends, some of them battle daily with the ignorance of others and all it would take is some basic education on the subject to put all of this to rest.

My recent chat to licensing though, has told me that this will not be allowed for much longer and the councils will be clamping down on so called private members clubs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Again.. in my bed with a penis - man.

so do you only accept them as being a woman once they have gone thru all the required operations.....

so you are then in effect stricter than the law is... getting offical documents change to reflect a gender change isn't an easy process......

Yes. I'll bet most people (away from this site) will agree.

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

"However basic biology suggests you are wrong. Men have a penis. Women do not. If this were not so why would some go to the pain and trauma of having an operation to change their gender?

They are not changing gender, they are changing their body to match their gender."

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By *andy6677Man over a year ago

crewe

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

I have met a few transexual people now FTM and MTF pre and post op. So far as im concerned i treat them as the gender they are now not the gender they were born as. I was brought up to treat all the same regardless of gender. In my view the OP is as female as any genetic woman and i dont pay any attention to the fact they have a penis as they dont recognise it as such and i wont ethier. Some will go on to have full srs surgery and some wont but they shouldnt be treated as third class citizens because they were born the wrong gender. They stuggle to become the people they were meant to be and discrimination helps no one. All the trans people i have met have been brilliant people to know and should be respected for the journey they have done or are still on to become the person they were born to be. All heroes in my book! Sorry if thats a bit long but i cant stand discrimination in any form.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"I am really quite shocked at the naivity on this thread. Have none of you ever heard of gender dysphoria? A person who knows that they are not the gender they were physically bor into?

I couldn't imagine how devastated I would feel if I truly knew I was a woman, yet society labelled me as a male because of what is between my legs.

I have many many trans friends, some of them battle daily with the ignorance of others and all it would take is some basic education on the subject to put all of this to rest.

My recent chat to licensing though, has told me that this will not be allowed for much longer and the councils will be clamping down on so called private members clubs.

I completely agree with your comment

However, in a swinging club environment, people genereally go to have sex with others. Of course, people go there to socialise, etc too. But the majority are there for sex

I completely accept the the OP is female

I also accept that someone else born in a female body can actually be male. However, when I am looking for a man for the purpose of having sex, my reasonable expectation is that he will have a penis and not a vagina. I would be rather disappointed if, once the clothes came off, the penis was missing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't believe people should be treated third class either. However where it has been deemed to discriminate between males and females I can see no more sensible way than biology to determine which is which.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When you say won't let you I do you mean they just won't let you past the door or they women let you join as a single women?

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By *ownhouseTwosomeCouple over a year ago

Birkenhead/Liverpool

I completely agree with your comment

However, in a swinging club environment, people genereally go to have sex with others. Of course, people go there to socialise, etc too. But the majority are there for sex

I completely accept the the OP is female

I totally get that as we ALL have our preferences, but surely you have a conversation before play? I can tell you with 99% certainty that a trans person will tell you in conversation that they are trans, especially if you are chatting about going into a playroom. Believe me, after the struggles that trans people go through, the last thing they want is rejection in the playroom, as much as you don't want a 'surprise' lol!

So, surely people should be allowed to be what they really are, without fear of rejection at the door and through general conversation, we as adults can establish who exactly we will be playing with and thus eliminating any doubt as to who we are playing with??

I think we need to understand that trans people do not want to deceive you in any way and most are very open indeed and it just takes a question, that is all.

xxx

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"I don't believe people should be treated third class either. However where it has been deemed to discriminate between males and females I can see no more sensible way than biology to determine which is which."

I normally don't ask for a DNA sample to determine 'biological' sex. Takes days for the lab to process by which time I've lost interest

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By *ickawitchCouple over a year ago

Away with the fairies (Liverpool to you)

the comment would be "ooow we cant let one of them in" be careful the 2010 equality and diversity act might come along and bite you on the bum!i wont accept any form of discrimination would you?

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

I completely agree with your comment

However, in a swinging club environment, people genereally go to have sex with others. Of course, people go there to socialise, etc too. But the majority are there for sex

I completely accept the the OP is female

I think we need to understand that trans people do not want to deceive you in any way and most are very open indeed and it just takes a question, that is all.

xxx"

Once again, I agree with you

I wasn't for a moment suggesting that anyone was out to deceive anyone else

I guess I've never asked a man if he has, erm, all the necessary equipment to hand

As far as entry into a club is concerned, the OP is entitled to be there as much as any other female as long as other females are welcome on that evening too. If it were a male only event (unlikely) then there would be grounds to refuse her entry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I normally don't ask for a DNA sample to determine 'biological' sex. Takes days for the lab to process by which time I've lost interest

I know a quicker way

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

I normally don't ask for a DNA sample to determine 'biological' sex. Takes days for the lab to process by which time I've lost interest

I know a quicker way

Really? Let me guess. You work in the CSI lab

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No I use the tried and tested method endorsed by midwifes everywhere

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With permission of course

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"No I use the tried and tested method endorsed by midwifes everywhere"

[sex to delivery in a swingers club? the mind boggles]

What might that be?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not the finger up the bum method - that's for tortoises. Or so I hear..

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"could the club be named here.... because I would like to hear their side of this....

or would be counted as name and shame....

....."

This forum is to discuss clubs so yes, clubs can be named

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"It's not the finger up the bum method - that's for tortoises. Or so I hear.."

After much thought, I think I will do one of:

The 'TownHouse' method: Just ask

The Nike method: Just do it

I don't think I want to try your method of sticking your finger up someone's bum

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's not the finger up the bum method - that's for tortoises. Or so I hear..

After much thought, I think I will do one of:

The 'TownHouse' method: Just ask

The Nike method: Just do it

I don't think I want to try your method of sticking your finger up someone's bum

For the record that absolutely is not my method

Then again if you're in need of a second opinion..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gender is not a label.

Gender is a social construction, which means people have their own ideas about how it should be.

I was not born wearing holdups, a peep hole bra and crotch-less panties. It is not in my DNA to earn less than men and to wear skirts.

Men were not born holding spears or with a six pack. Men were not all born predators or as potential rapists.

Society puts labels on genders and tells people how they should behave. So unfortunately you are very wrong, it is a label and you are just following the status quo in your comments.

OP confuses you as these very firm labels in your head and it can be hard to become open minded enough to accept she fits none of them.

I agree there is much nonsense that stems from cultural norms.

However basic biology suggests you are wrong. Men have a penis. Women do not. If this were not so why would some go to the pain and trauma of having an operation to change their gender?

Men and women are both born with nipples yet I don't see men being expected to wear bras. You think men and women fit into a box as they have a penis or a vagina?

Trans are not the only ones that upset your 1950s gender views, what about twinks, butch lesbians, lipstick lesbians, boot bois, tom boys etc that do not fit the stereotypes of their genders?

Even to quote Shakespeare

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've made my views pretty clear above. They're based on a couple of million years or so of evolution, not just the bit from the 1950s.

I'm not challenging anybody's right to identify as they wish. Merely pointing out that where a decision is to be made about gender it's understandable that others may go on the basis of what can be seen and would be generally accepted. If not where do you draw the line?

I do like a bit of Shakespeare:

I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed

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