FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Club Discussion > How do you define male and female?
How do you define male and female?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So, lots of clubs have separate male and female pricing. We know this. We know that everyone has opinions on it. This thread is not for those opinions.
At the moment I'm studying a module at university on how gender and sex are constructed, both biologically and culturally.
I was wondering how clubs deal with people who are transgender (both male to female, and female to male), people who are intersex (have an ambiguous gender) or people who identify as third/queer/other with regards to their gender.
I won't lie, it's a question close to my heart. I identify as having a queer gender, or 'other', meaning that I don't feel like I fit into either 'male' or 'female' very easily. I'm biologically a woman, however you wouldn't be able to tell that unless you examined me intimately to see if I have a vagina (and even then, some people may have a vagina but medical conditions mean that their chromosomes show them to be 'male' and have testes and so forth).
Since the law states that gender characteristics are protected (Equalities Act 2010) I'm assuming that clubs which differentiate on the basis of male and female must have policies in place to deal with these situations.
Would anyone like to discuss how they handle people who identify or present this way? |
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I think to get the most out of this thread, I would assume that some terms need to be explained. So maybe definitions of Tranvestite, transgender, transsexual, Cis, queer, genderfluid etc etc..as they may come up
xx |
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Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think to get the most out of this thread, I would assume that some terms need to be explained. So maybe definitions of Tranvestite, transgender, transsexual, Cis, queer, genderfluid etc etc..as they may come up
xx"
I think that looking on Wikipedia would provide one of the simplest definitions for those terms. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced "
Thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread.
I'm sure that those people who are already marginalised appreciate you referring to their lifestyles as a 'head fuck'. |
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced "
lol...from a personal point of view, I don't see people as a gender at all! They are just jane, john, laura...whatever their name is! I am attracted to the person, not their gender...it really isn't important to me, but I am sure it is important to them x |
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced
lol...from a personal point of view, I don't see people as a gender at all! They are just jane, john, laura...whatever their name is! I am attracted to the person, not their gender...it really isn't important to me, but I am sure it is important to them x"
Well that doesn't help with a clubs pricing policy does it?! |
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced
lol...from a personal point of view, I don't see people as a gender at all! They are just jane, john, laura...whatever their name is! I am attracted to the person, not their gender...it really isn't important to me, but I am sure it is important to them x
Well that doesn't help with a clubs pricing policy does it?!"
Nope, because I have already commented on a similar question on another thread and will not be repeating myself here  |
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced
Thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread.
I'm sure that those people who are already marginalised appreciate you referring to their lifestyles as a 'head fuck'."
Lol...i love how people take things the wrong way on forums..by head fuck I mean getting your head around everything.it is a head fuck as there are so many variations and differences...you may not appreciate the way I talk but its the valley commando in me,and that ain't changing for no one.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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well the clubs i have visited all seem to follow a similar pattern in their pricing structures
single ladies tend to be either free or minimal entrance
cpls are usually around £10 to £20
single males come as guest for a set fee or take out memberships then attend at discounted rate.
i believe its done this way because without the ladies you wouldnt have a swingers club and single gents outnumber cpls and a price of around £50 for males means you dont just get just any tom dick n harry with a spare tenna in his pocket n a hard on coming in.
clubs that welcome tv and transgender clients often have a set night and discounted rates for tv's as they are attending in "girl mode" ( sorry dont know correct way to word it ) and the clubs i have been to always treat n respect trans male to females as any other lady client
on the issues of female to male or androgynous sexuality i am afraid i have no idea but would have thought on attending a club its how you yourself identify in your gender/sexuality that they take into consideration
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By *haunMan
over a year ago
Halton |
My take is.
And please excuse me if I picked this up incorrectly.
The op is not just talking about the prices being changed for different gender (as we have a lot of current forum posts on this)
My interpretation is how do clubs or events make (for want of a better phrase) choices / decisions on the identity of the perceived gender on an individual or group of people.
Are people being excluded on the judgement of people that they don't fit the 'requirement' of the club / event.
Therefore potentially excluding they from attending.
With regards the more detailed specifics of the question.
I will be honest enough to say I don't have enough knowledge to present a fair answer.
I don't blame this fully on a lack of ignorance, just as an individual it is not something that I have had a lot of exposure too.
Hopefully the op gets some helpful honest answers without anyone overly bashing or attacking a response that may just be their opinion. |
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I am a woman with a Transexual past. I am treated as female at work, at my Doctors, at my sports and at church etc. Sex clubs are no different.
I always was emotionally, spiritually and socially a woman,even if I did not understand what was going on.
I was on this site as a TV/TS but, after my surgery I "polled" the membership here in these forums as to their attitude,,, they all felt that as i was anatomically female, that I lived as a female I should be listed as female.
Even then I added a note to my profile to be "up front" with prospective meets, after further "Polling" I even abandoned this.
I have only on two occasions had anyone have a problem with my gender identity, at clubs, house parties, gangbangs and one on one meets.
With regard to the law it is, indeed, unlawful to unfairly discriminate against anyone on any grounds including Gender and gender re=assignment, this extends to pricing but does not preclude preferential pricing to enhance the ethos of the club.
Hope this is useful. |
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Well, on a commercial basis, supply and demand. There's a large supply of men going to clubs and thus a large demand hence the high prices. Not as many females are into the swinging scene so there's your demand stripped bare, so a lower price.
The tricky part is definition, transvestites are sometimes clearly distinguishable and sometimes not so much. People who are in the mindset of the opposite gender are tricky as physically their are no indications to such, so what's to say every Tom Dick or Harry turns up and claims he feels like a woman. So I guess that'll be difficult to define that category. I suppose if it's on a single case by case basis people could contact clubs explaining their predicament, perhaps they could arrange something.
Just our take on it, would make a great philosophical debate of gender identity and its definition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced "
Do you mean a hermaphrodite? - someone born woth both male and female genitalia? X |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lol
What a head fuck all of this is...
Good luck guys.....
I once dated a girl..i cant remember the term she used but she considered herself both male and female,and was having procedures done like hormone therapy etc....she eventually had her boobs replaced
Do you mean a hermaphrodite? - someone born woth both male and female genitalia? X"
Intersex is the correct term, hermaphrodite is not really the used term any more. |
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Gender is so much more than what's between a person's legs.
Most people do identify as either male or female, but there are those who fluctuate or who feel they are "non binary". I imagine it must be awfully difficult to start filling in a form and not even be able to tick one of the gender boxes.
I have at least one friend who most certainly is female and she has a penis. That may or may not be something she decides to address in the future. But it doesn't make her any less female in her own identity. |
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"A male is born with a oenis a female with a vagina.
It really is that simple.
If you mean gebder identity. Different story."
You omit to mention individuals born with both male and female genital organs, or a mix thereof.
Intersex, or more correctly disorders of sex development, is an extraordinarily complex subject with short and long-term consequences. It is not uncommon and can affect someone who is born with a penis or a vagina.
It is, generally better and more sensitively managed now; but, historically, the condition resulted in profound long-term physical, social and mental health issues and, frequently, marginalisation of those affected.
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It is certainly not as simple as "men are born with a penis, women are born with a vagina".
I know people who were not born that way. There's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise, I have valued friends who were not born with "bits" that match their gender. |
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