FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Club Discussion > single male entry prices
single male entry prices
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"Those prices look extremely good. Better than some clubs couples prices! (perhaps you should up your prices) " | |||
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"Men who complain about reasonable prices (which yours are) will more than likely be the ones who have a massive sense of entitlement and are the sort of men that that you wouldn't want as members of your club anyway" I was going to say something like this.... if they are grumbling over prices they are probably not the life and soul of the parties you want in the club anyway...... I have always equated the price of a club to what i would spend for a good vanilla night out on a saturday night in any busy city centre.... and if it is much more than that... i wouldn't be visting.... good i haven't encountered one in the north where that applies yet.....  | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. " They have to be the best prices I've seen at any club and any single guy that wants to moan ain't worth having in your club, | |||
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"I'm not UK based right now, and club prices for single guys over here are between €50-100 euros! " That's absolutely right! - prices in Paris are very high, for example E60 to get into a strip club and even more for a swingers club. That's providing they decide to admit you in the first place as they can be very fussy about what you're wearing, being English, etc.! | |||
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"Men who complain about reasonable prices (which yours are) will more than likely be the ones who have a massive sense of entitlement and are the sort of men that that you wouldn't want as members of your club anyway" totally agree with this | |||
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"15 quid at the seaside " For what? Cod and chips? | |||
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"We have had this loads lately and our guys are not ripped off and we don't charge yearly membership fees! This is the statement that I give when I am confronted; it usually works. We are a Private Members Club. A club such as ours which has more than 25 members is bound by the Equality Act 2010, which means that there is a 'protected characteristic' clause whereby people should not be discriminated against due to disability, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex or sexual orientation. However, there are several other clauses which allows a Private Members club to offer different priced memberships to people even if they fall into the protected characteristic group. A swingers club could fill to the rafters every single night with single guys who will pay stupid money to walk through the doors. They are hugely over represented. On the flip side, swingers clubs, generally speaking have a shortage of single females and people from the trans community, because these groups of people may find it more difficult to walk into a club such as ours alone as they may feel vulnerable and there may be a fear factor preventing them from coming through the doors....they are at a disadvantage. Couples are also in demand, as without them, the single guys would be twiddling their thumbs....or nobs! There is a clause in the Equality Act 2010 which goes something like this: "There are some people with protected characteristics who are disadvantaged or under-represented, or have particular needs linked to their characteristics. Positive action provisions in the Act enable private clubs and other associations to take proportionate steps to encourage membership among under-represented groups, or to help people overcome their disadvantages, or to meet their needs" . The steps that can be taken, include offerings discounts and concessions to these identified groups of people. (Taken from the Government Equalities Office) To meet the criteria for the above, the Private Members club needs to advertise its pricing clearly on their website or other media for potential members to peruse prior to taking a membership. So the potential member has a choice of whether to take a membership or not and make an informed decision. The club should also be in a position to justify the pricing structure if questioned by a potential member so that they understand why they may be asked to pay more money than other members." if I complained about pricing and was sent back as a response, I'd lose interest in my complaint before even finishing it | |||
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"We have had this loads lately and our guys are not ripped off and we don't charge yearly membership fees! This is the statement that I give when I am confronted; it usually works. We are a Private Members Club. A club such as ours which has more than 25 members is bound by the Equality Act 2010, which means that there is a 'protected characteristic' clause whereby people should not be discriminated against due to disability, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex or sexual orientation. However, there are several other clauses which allows a Private Members club to offer different priced memberships to people even if they fall into the protected characteristic group. A swingers club could fill to the rafters every single night with single guys who will pay stupid money to walk through the doors. They are hugely over represented. On the flip side, swingers clubs, generally speaking have a shortage of single females and people from the trans community, because these groups of people may find it more difficult to walk into a club such as ours alone as they may feel vulnerable and there may be a fear factor preventing them from coming through the doors....they are at a disadvantage. Couples are also in demand, as without them, the single guys would be twiddling their thumbs....or nobs! There is a clause in the Equality Act 2010 which goes something like this: "There are some people with protected characteristics who are disadvantaged or under-represented, or have particular needs linked to their characteristics. Positive action provisions in the Act enable private clubs and other associations to take proportionate steps to encourage membership among under-represented groups, or to help people overcome their disadvantages, or to meet their needs" . The steps that can be taken, include offerings discounts and concessions to these identified groups of people. (Taken from the Government Equalities Office) To meet the criteria for the above, the Private Members club needs to advertise its pricing clearly on their website or other media for potential members to peruse prior to taking a membership. So the potential member has a choice of whether to take a membership or not and make an informed decision. The club should also be in a position to justify the pricing structure if questioned by a potential member so that they understand why they may be asked to pay more money than other members.if I complained about pricing and was sent back as a response, I'd lose interest in my complaint before even finishing it "hahaha...but you wouldn't complain would you?! lol x | |||
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" hahaha...but you wouldn't complain would you?! lol x" no but I already knew the reason why. I like to moan... not big on complaining  | |||
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" hahaha...but you wouldn't complain would you?! lol xno but I already knew the reason why. I like to moan... not big on complaining "ooohhh Moan away! grrr  | |||
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" hahaha...but you wouldn't complain would you?! lol xno but I already knew the reason why. I like to moan... not big on complaining
ooohhh Moan away! grrr "your club looks great, just a pity it's in wrong country for me  | |||
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"I find it a bit rubbish that there are 'single man' prices at all to be honest. However I come from the kink scene as a crossover where 'one price for all' is the norm. I guess it's got away with because they're private members clubs, but I think it's certainly treading a fine line when it comes to the Equalities Act..." I agree. I think gender biased pricing is despicable.  private clubs are fully in control of who comes though the door, so take control if it's a problem: limit the # of single guys (or girls) allowed in on a given night, or require a "pre-paid reservation" - just don't financially gouge single guys. | |||
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"A swingers club could fill to the rafters every single night with single guys who will pay stupid money to walk through the doors. They are hugely over represented. On the flip side, swingers clubs, generally speaking have a shortage of single females and people from the trans community, because these groups of people may find it more difficult to walk into a club such as ours alone as they may feel vulnerable and there may be a fear factor preventing them from coming through the doors....they are at a disadvantage. Couples are also in demand, as without them, the single guys would be twiddling their thumbs....or nobs!" So why then do transmen get charged single men prices, if there's a shortage of them? And what about the women and men who want to play with other men but not couples? | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody would ever be willing to take a club to court over pricing structure as they wouldn't want their name bandied around as an obvious swinger. No doubt a decent barrister or solicitor could easily dismantle the argument clubs use to charge women and couples less than single men (which is essentially what is being said here) " I would quite happily if I felt I could win and it would make a difference. However the law at the moment allows these exceptions. I'm out as a trans(ish) fetishist and swinger. It wouldn't be a problem for me. | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. They have to be the best prices I've seen at any club and any single guy that wants to moan ain't worth having in your club, " | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody would ever be willing to take a club to court over pricing structure as they wouldn't want their name bandied around as an obvious swinger. No doubt a decent barrister or solicitor could easily dismantle the argument clubs use to charge women and couples less than single men (which is essentially what is being said here) " If it ever went to court and 'fair' prices were put in place the only outcome would be alot of clubs would close. Totally over run by single men, which would keep alot of single fems and couples away. Clubs that dont get it right and have too many single men are scary places (and I'm no shrinking violet but I'd stay away). Reduced prices for females and couples are there for a reason - good business sense. | |||
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"I'm guessing nobody would ever be willing to take a club to court over pricing structure as they wouldn't want their name bandied around as an obvious swinger. No doubt a decent barrister or solicitor could easily dismantle the argument clubs use to charge women and couples less than single men (which is essentially what is being said here) " no they couldnt, as much as you disagree with it, clubs are well within the law with the pricing structure. | |||
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"Why is it some clubs charge different prices for single men and single women when everything else such as nightclub concert tickets holidays etc womem and men are charged the same" If you read the thread fully the answers are there | |||
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"Why is it some clubs charge different prices for single men and single women when everything else such as nightclub concert tickets holidays etc womem and men are charged the same" you didn't read the bit that townhouse couple put up did you about positive discrimination....
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"Why is it some clubs charge different prices for single men and single women when everything else such as nightclub concert tickets holidays etc womem and men are charged the same" Start at the top of the thread, read, and a reasonable  explanation will be given. | |||
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"Why is it some clubs charge different prices for single men and single women when everything else such as nightclub concert tickets holidays etc womem and men are charged the same Start at the top of the thread, read, and a reasonable explanation will be given."Oooo, a question mark in brackets gives you . . . Every day is a learning day. | |||
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"A swingers club could fill to the rafters every single night with single guys who will pay stupid money to walk through the doors. They are hugely over represented. On the flip side, swingers clubs, generally speaking have a shortage of single females and people from the trans community, because these groups of people may find it more difficult to walk into a club such as ours alone as they may feel vulnerable and there may be a fear factor preventing them from coming through the doors....they are at a disadvantage. Couples are also in demand, as without them, the single guys would be twiddling their thumbs....or nobs! So why then do transmen get charged single men prices, if there's a shortage of them? And what about the women and men who want to play with other men but not couples?" actually our trans members don't get charged as single men!! Lol | |||
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" actually our trans members don't get charged as single men!! Lol "Isn't that discrimination though? Charging transmen less than cismen? Because they're all single men... right? Why do some single men get charged more than other single men? | |||
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" actually our trans members don't get charged as single men!! Lol
Isn't that discrimination though? Charging transmen less than cismen? Because they're all single men... right?
Why do some single men get charged more than other single men?"We get asked this a lot too. We get trans members who only 'dress' (hate that word but you know what I mean) in the club. So they are not 24/7. They get charged our tgirl/boi price. Our trans members who are 24/7 & live 24/7, whether they are post op or not are treated as single females/males respectively & get charged the same as cis members. So a CD/TV have their own price. People often ask how we know who is who. Well we have a MASSIVE trans membership & personally I ask! Sometimes it's easy as the members will have their passports etc changed but others are still transitioning. I get a lot of respect by being open, welcoming & asking the question. Xx | |||
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"Yes just read through i still dont think its right though infact totally shocking" then dont go to a club, its that simple. | |||
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"I find it a bit rubbish that there are 'single man' prices at all to be honest. (...) As a single woman I wish sometimes I was charged the same as a single man, because then any sense of entitlement would not be there. I know if I paid more for something than the next person, I'd be expecting to have a better time..." I very much agree too. "I go to clubs to meet single men. It would be nicer for the men if the entrance for them was a bit lower than it is now I have noticed, even in the last 6 months, that some clubs have started charging women a token amount and reduced the charges for the men. This is all very good but finally it all comes down to supply and demand" HOPEFULLY this will change in there future. I have seen more single women starting to go to clubs on their own over the last 5 years. It will change, just a bit slow! | |||
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"I find it a bit rubbish that there are 'single man' prices at all to be honest. (...) As a single woman I wish sometimes I was charged the same as a single man, because then any sense of entitlement would not be there. I know if I paid more for something than the next person, I'd be expecting to have a better time...I very much agree too. I go to clubs to meet single men. It would be nicer for the men if the entrance for them was a bit lower than it is now I have noticed, even in the last 6 months, that some clubs have started charging women a token amount and reduced the charges for the men. This is all very good but finally it all comes down to supply and demand HOPEFULLY this will change in there future. I have seen more single women starting to go to clubs on their own over the last 5 years. It will change, just a bit slow!" We have started charging ladies on all nights and reduced our prices for guys on some nights, but they do still pay more. We don't charge a membership fee for any members though x | |||
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" Charging single men more is discriminatory pricing that means they are subsidising other attendees and/or being priced out - this could mean otherwise desirable single men can't/won't attend " I am going to disagree with you here.... that isn't an arguement that men can't go.... that is just an arguement that men may not be able to go as often as they like.... so here is a suggestion for those people who use the above to complain.... Budget!!! if people want to go, they will budget to find the money.... for example i was on a much higher sky tv package than what i was using... so i cut down.... and now i have a bit more money to do other things..... 
if i want to go out on a saturday night... I budget.... if i go on holiday I budget.... same thing applies!
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"it was meant as an argument that some single men would not be able to go as often as they like. Sure, single men can budget. But it's simply easier for women and couples to attend (more often) given that it's cheaper for them to do so. And while higher pricing for men may price out many undesirables (on any given night), it will also limit the attendances of some desirable single men." Actually, higher prices absolutely DO NOT limit undesirables!!! We have been to clubs where they charge high yearly membership fees and over £50 for single guy entry and there were still guys who obviously had no self respect or respect for the people around them! If guys have the money and really want to go to a club, they will pay...not just the well behaved ones. Love it or hate it, we have an intro evening for guys. We meet guys before we give them a membership for free. You may call it vetting but it has nothing to do with looks, money, experience... it is to do with understanding swinging. We want to make sure our guys know that paying an entry fee does not guarantee a play, that they will observe the rules and are nice guys that want to invest their time in getting to know people rather than sitting at the bar all night and then expecting a play without uttering a word! This system really works for us, so what we get are lovely guys, who enjoy the club and our couples/ladies are comfortable around them. We rarely knock guys back as we chat to them before they come in for the intro evening, so the ones who don't want to make an effort, don't turn up. In return, the guys receive a free membership, admission on cheaper events and the chance to book in for our Saturdays, where guys are limited to 8 per night. We really look after our guys as it's a myth that they don't get nervous and awkward...of course they do! In fact, I think guys get really bad press and through this feel nervous about approaching people. So on our intro evening we chat about getting past this nervousness, how to get chatting to people and make the most out of their visit. We talk about our fees and why they are higher on some nights (we have a few events that are the same price for all) and apart from a few, they understand and accept the pricing structure. Those who don't like it/get it, can leave after the intro evening and not take a membership. Simple. | |||
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"it was meant as an argument that some single men would not be able to go as often as they like. Sure, single men can budget. But it's simply easier for women and couples to attend (more often) given that it's cheaper for them to do so. And while higher pricing for men may price out many undesirables (on any given night), it will also limit the attendances of some desirable single men. Actually, higher prices absolutely DO NOT limit undesirables!!! We have been to clubs where they charge high yearly membership fees and over £50 for single guy entry and there were still guys who obviously had no self respect or respect for the people around them! If guys have the money and really want to go to a club, they will pay...not just the well behaved ones. Love it or hate it, we have an intro evening for guys. We meet guys before we give them a membership for free. You may call it vetting but it has nothing to do with looks, money, experience... it is to do with understanding swinging. We want to make sure our guys know that paying an entry fee does not guarantee a play, that they will observe the rules and are nice guys that want to invest their time in getting to know people rather than sitting at the bar all night and then expecting a play without uttering a word! This system really works for us, so what we get are lovely guys, who enjoy the club and our couples/ladies are comfortable around them. We rarely knock guys back as we chat to them before they come in for the intro evening, so the ones who don't want to make an effort, don't turn up. In return, the guys receive a free membership, admission on cheaper events and the chance to book in for our Saturdays, where guys are limited to 8 per night. We really look after our guys as it's a myth that they don't get nervous and awkward...of course they do! In fact, I think guys get really bad press and through this feel nervous about approaching people. So on our intro evening we chat about getting past this nervousness, how to get chatting to people and make the most out of their visit. We talk about our fees and why they are higher on some nights (we have a few events that are the same price for all) and apart from a few, they understand and accept the pricing structure. Those who don't like it/get it, can leave after the intro evening and not take a membership. Simple. " I said it 'may' limit undesirables, and i do believe that is part of the logic of having higher prices, but I'm quite sure that there are wealthy undesirables out there
and financially-limited desirables, which was the only point i was trying to make
it sounds like you have a good, balanced system at your club | |||
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"it was meant as an argument that some single men would not be able to go as often as they like. Sure, single men can budget. But it's simply easier for women and couples to attend (more often) given that it's cheaper for them to do so. And while higher pricing for men may price out many undesirables (on any given night), it will also limit the attendances of some desirable single men." Swinging will survive without single guys, but would not survive without couples. Live with it. | |||
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" I said it 'may' limit undesirables, and i do believe that is part of the logic of having higher prices, but I'm quite sure that there are wealthy undesirables out there
and financially-limited desirables, which was the only point i was trying to make
it sounds like you have a good, balanced system at your club "It's a fine line really isn't it? But we have a hard job at clubs to look after everybody in the venue and all clubs have different ways of doing this. What we do works for us, but other clubs would baulk at this! xx | |||
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"it was meant as an argument that some single men would not be able to go as often as they like. Sure, single men can budget. But it's simply easier for women and couples to attend (more often) given that it's cheaper for them to do so. And while higher pricing for men may price out many undesirables (on any given night), it will also limit the attendances of some desirable single men. Swinging will survive without single guys, but would not survive without couples. Live with it. "I'm sure it would. Good for you. | |||
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" It's a fine line really isn't it? But we have a hard job at clubs to look after everybody in the venue and all clubs have different ways of doing this. What we do works for us, but other clubs would baulk at this! xx" It is a fine line, and I'm glad you are at least considering the issue. I think the goal is to create a relaxed environment with a good mixture of single guys, girls and couples to give plenty of choice to the swinging and swapping. An environment overrun with single men is counter to that, but I think you can use more than one method to control that rather than just a higher price. I respect you for not taking a 'tough shit' approach to single guys :D. | |||
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" If it ever went to court and 'fair' prices were put in place the only outcome would be alot of clubs would close. Totally over run by single men, which would keep alot of single fems and couples away. Clubs that dont get it right and have too many single men are scary places (and I'm no shrinking violet but I'd stay away). Reduced prices for females and couples are there for a reason - good business sense. " I agree! | |||
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"Stop moaning about price and be grateful the clubs are doing what they can to attract females and couples, as without them the clubs will die. As others have said, if you don't like it, don't go." As I have said, I don't like it, so I don't go. The point is that clubs can possibly regulate the ratios of men, women and couples without hitting single men in the pocket. Price is an issue for me and frankly it's not for you to tell me not to moan about it. I'm simply addressing the OP's question about why guys complain, and suggesting possible solutions. Apart from the considered response from the other swinging club, this is just another 'we're ok, so fuck you' response. I'm tempted to quote Martin Niemoller! | |||
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"Stop moaning about price and be grateful the clubs are doing what they can to attract females and couples, as without them the clubs will die. As others have said, if you don't like it, don't go. As I have said, I don't like it, so I don't go. The point is that clubs can possibly regulate the ratios of men, women and couples without hitting single men in the pocket. Price is an issue for me and frankly it's not for you to tell me not to moan about it. I'm simply addressing the OP's question about why guys complain, and suggesting possible solutions. Apart from the considered response from the other swinging club, this is just another 'we're ok, so fuck you' response. I'm tempted to quote Martin Niemoller!" Out of curiosity, what would you call an appropriate ratio of each grouping in a club setting? | |||
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" Out of curiosity, what would you call an appropriate ratio of each grouping in a club setting? " Good question, and I don't know with not being an expert! But I'll throw 60% couples, 20% single women, 20% single guys out there as an ideological starting point... | |||
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" Out of curiosity, what would you call an appropriate ratio of each grouping in a club setting? Good question, and I don't know with not being an expert! But I'll throw 60% couples, 20% single women, 20% single guys out there as an ideological starting point... "You see in my experience and what i attend clubs looking for I would say 50% couples, 35% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts is a good balance and that essentially is the problem with clubs having to meet a ratio system than a pricing one to regulate numbers. Each person will have a different opinion on what is the right ratio/mix of people | |||
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" You see in my experience and what i attend clubs looking for I would say 50% couples, 35% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts is a good balance and that essentially is the problem with clubs having to meet a ratio system than a pricing one to regulate numbers. Each person will have a different opinion on what is the right ratio/mix of people" That's fine. Everyone would have their own preference. But everyone agrees that without a pricing bar, there would be too many single men. I'm asking if the numbers of single men could be controlled using other methods rather than price alone. Each club is entitled to decide what rough ratio is ideal. | |||
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"So in your ratio everyone pays the same. It becomes twice as expensive for a coulple to go as a single guy. The number of couples drops so the number of guys has to drop. You end up with a club with hardly anyone in it and it closes. What do you gain there?" You gain nothing by it. I was merely trying to demonstrate that the current Pricing system is more appropriate at controlling numbers than working on a ratio system | |||
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" You see in my experience and what i attend clubs looking for I would say 50% couples, 35% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts is a good balance and that essentially is the problem with clubs having to meet a ratio system than a pricing one to regulate numbers. Each person will have a different opinion on what is the right ratio/mix of people That's fine. Everyone would have their own preference. But everyone agrees that without a pricing bar, there would be too many single men. I'm asking if the numbers of single men could be controlled using other methods rather than price alone. Each club is entitled to decide what rough ratio is ideal." Well what other methods would you suggest then? im sure the club owners would be interested to hear them and possibly impliment them if their good enough | |||
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"I dont think the argument is how much extra the man has to pay its more that its a higher rate at all I own a well known nightclub in south Yorkshire and id never dream of charging different depending on what gender you are I also had a private club (not sex club) and again would never dream of charging different" | |||
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" Well what other methods would you suggest then? im sure the club owners would be interested to hear them and possibly impliment them if their good enough" From my first post in this thread: "Do clubs consider other options such as limiting single men by number on the door? Or having them reserve a spot up to a week in advance? Or some kind of membership so that if you've paid a higher fee 10 times, and behaved yourself, your entry fee is reduced?" TownhouseTwosome also had this to add: "Love it or hate it, we have an intro evening for guys. We meet guys before we give them a membership for free. You may call it vetting but it has nothing to do with looks, money, experience... it is to do with understanding swinging. We want to make sure our guys know that paying an entry fee does not guarantee a play, that they will observe the rules and are nice guys that want to invest their time in getting to know people rather than sitting at the bar all night and then expecting a play without uttering a word! This system really works for us, so what we get are lovely guys, who enjoy the club and our couples/ladies are comfortable around them. We rarely knock guys back as we chat to them before they come in for the intro evening, so the ones who don't want to make an effort, don't turn up. In return, the guys receive a free membership, admission on cheaper events and the chance to book in for our Saturdays, where guys are limited to 8 per night. We really look after our guys as it's a myth that they don't get nervous and awkward...of course they do! In fact, I think guys get really bad press and through this feel nervous about approaching people. So on our intro evening we chat about getting past this nervousness, how to get chatting to people and make the most out of their visit. We talk about our fees and why they are higher on some nights (we have a few events that are the same price for all) and apart from a few, they understand and accept the pricing structure. Those who don't like it/get it, can leave after the intro evening and not take a membership. Simple." I think there are ways, even if they have to be used in conjunction with a smaller difference in price. | |||
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"I dont think the argument is how much extra the man has to pay its more that its a higher rate at all I own a well known nightclub in south Yorkshire and id never dream of charging different depending on what gender you are I also had a private club (not sex club) and again would never dream of charging different" I doubt you will find most nightclubs have a problem attracting single women and that those that attend aren't worried about being followed around all night by men expecting sex just because they're there! (Although of course there are some nightclubs where this happens too, but that's what keeps the doormen busy!  )
Comparing vanilla clubs and swingers clubs is pointless.
A | |||
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"I dont think the argument is how much extra the man has to pay its more that its a higher rate at all I own a well known nightclub in south Yorkshire and id never dream of charging different depending on what gender you are I also had a private club (not sex club) and again would never dream of charging different I doubt you will find most nightclubs have a problem attracting single women and that those that attend aren't worried about being followed around all night by men expecting sex just because they're there! (Although of course there are some nightclubs where this happens too, but that's what keeps the doormen busy! )
Comparing vanilla clubs and swingers clubs is pointless.
A"YES! | |||
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"it was meant as an argument that some single men would not be able to go as often as they like. Sure, single men can budget. But it's simply easier for women and couples to attend (more often) given that it's cheaper for them to do so. And while higher pricing for men may price out many undesirables (on any given night), it will also limit the attendances of some desirable single men. Actually, higher prices absolutely DO NOT limit undesirables!!! We have been to clubs where they charge high yearly membership fees and over £50 for single guy entry and there were still guys who obviously had no self respect or respect for the people around them! If guys have the money and really want to go to a club, they will pay...not just the well behaved ones. Love it or hate it, we have an intro evening for guys. We meet guys before we give them a membership for free. You may call it vetting but it has nothing to do with looks, money, experience... it is to do with understanding swinging. We want to make sure our guys know that paying an entry fee does not guarantee a play, that they will observe the rules and are nice guys that want to invest their time in getting to know people rather than sitting at the bar all night and then expecting a play without uttering a word! This system really works for us, so what we get are lovely guys, who enjoy the club and our couples/ladies are comfortable around them. We rarely knock guys back as we chat to them before they come in for the intro evening, so the ones who don't want to make an effort, don't turn up. In return, the guys receive a free membership, admission on cheaper events and the chance to book in for our Saturdays, where guys are limited to 8 per night. We really look after our guys as it's a myth that they don't get nervous and awkward...of course they do! In fact, I think guys get really bad press and through this feel nervous about approaching people. So on our intro evening we chat about getting past this nervousness, how to get chatting to people and make the most out of their visit. We talk about our fees and why they are higher on some nights (we have a few events that are the same price for all) and apart from a few, they understand and accept the pricing structure. Those who don't like it/get it, can leave after the intro evening and not take a membership. Simple. I said it 'may' limit undesirables, and i do believe that is part of the logic of having higher prices, but I'm quite sure that there are wealthy undesirables out there
and financially-limited desirables, which was the only point i was trying to make
it sounds like you have a good, balanced system at your club "As a financially limited desirable as you appear to class yourself, what do you think would be reasonable pricing? | |||
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" As a financially limited desirable as you appear to class yourself, what do you think would be reasonable pricing?" I am financially-limited at times. I don't know if I'm desirable lol, not for me to judge in a sexual sense. But in the sense of being sane and respectful and able to hold a conversation - i.e. in the context of a swingers' club attendee - I think so. Another poster suggested ratios at a club of 60% couples, 25% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts. In my experience, men pay for e.g. £30, couples £20 between them so £10 each, women £5 or free. I appreciate subsidising single women given the environment could be a daunting one; that argument is less strong for couples given they have each other. I think £15 for guys, £25 for couples (between them), £5 for single women is much fairer if the numbers of single men could then be further controlled by the means discussed elsewhere in this thread. | |||
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"I don't see it as single men being charged more, but instead couples and women are given discounts to try to increase their numbers. I'm sure without the coupes or women the men would be even more upset! Mr ddc" well said and true | |||
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"1 limit men on the door is a ligitimate case for discrimination based on sex its why bouncers on the vanilla club scene are no.longer allowed to do it. They did used to as the amount of time i was skipped to the front of a queue on a night out because they needed more women for diversity ive lost count. 2 Pre paying shouldnt just apply to males it then should apply to all and then allows for last minute cancellations and numbers not being met and if clubs refund that money they have lost out financially for the evening. As its not fair to allow walk ins on a pre paid booking system 3 If after 10 visits the guys get a reduced rate by the reasoning of equality so should women and couples and with the procing strictures as is its still no..fairer process that way " 1 fair enough 2 reserving wouldn't necessarily mean pre-paying. and the option would be there for women and couples too. clubs have nights for couples and women only, with men by invitation only, so a system could be used where only men with a reservation can enter. a lot of men who would otherwise flood a swingers' club would be deterred as they couldn't just rock up after a few beers. 3 you could have a loyalty system in place for all, true. e.g. a 50% discount would be worth more to guys paying £30 than women paying £10, so it could work. Not sure about your equality argument when women and couples are receiving discounts in the first place. Thanks for at least addressing the issues rather than telling me to pay up or get lost | |||
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" Actually, higher prices absolutely DO NOT limit undesirables!!! We have been to clubs where they charge high yearly membership fees and over £50 for single guy entry and there were still guys who obviously had no self respect or respect for the people aroudesirablf guys have the money and really want to go to a club, they will pay...not just the well behaved ones. Love it or hate it, we have an intro evening for guys. We meet guys before we give them a membership for free. You may call it vetting but it has nothing to do with looks, money, experience... it is to do with understanding swinging. We want to make sure our guys know that paying an entry fee does not guarantee a play, that they will observe the rules and are nice guys that want to invest their time in getting to know people rather than sitting at the bar all night and then expecting a play without uttering a word! This system really works for us, so what we get are lovely guys, who enjoy the club and our couples/ladies are comfortable around them. We rarely knock guys back as we chat to them before they come in for the intro evening, so the ones who don't want to make an effort, don't turn up. In return, the guys receive a free membership, admission on cheaper events and the chance to book in for our Saturdays, where guys are limited to 8 per night. We really look after our guys as it's a myth that they don't get nervous and awkward...of course they do! In fact, I think guys get really bad press and through this feel nervous about approaching people. So on our intro evening we chat about getting past this nervousness, how to get chatting to people and make the most out of their visit. We talk about our fees and why they are higher on some nights (we have a few events that are the same price for all) and apart from a few, they understand and accept the pricing structure. Those who don't like it/get it, can leave after the intro evening and not take a membership. Simple. " After reading through all the drivel on this thread I think by far your solution is the best one mentioned. It filters out the men who just see swinging as a way to get their rocks off from those who really know what swinging is supposed to be. Which is a mutual enjoyment with no entitlement disease from any party whatsoever, singles couples or females. I would very much love to meet you in future when I get the chance to come up north to your location. We need more club owners who think the same way as you do, instead of just thinking that swinger clubs are mere businesses where you can conveniently use business profit/loss reasons to gouge anybody out. | |||
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"Well without single men attending clubs I think most clubs would go down hill pretty quick lol." Apologies Shag, but I don't think that would happen I attend on Friday nights when most clubs alllow everyone; couples, single women, tv/ts, single men. I have lots of fun I also attend on Saturday nights when entrance is limited to couples and single females. I have lots of fun Can you detect an emerging pattern here | |||
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"Well without single men attending clubs I think most clubs would go down hill pretty quick lol. Apologies Shag, but I don't think that would happen I attend on Friday nights when most clubs alllow everyone; couples, single women, tv/ts, single men. I have lots of fun I also attend on Saturday nights when entrance is limited to couples and single females. I have lots of fun Can you detect an emerging pattern here "YEs I can see that as well, but it will still say how much for singles to come in, or not just that club but others too | |||
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" After reading through all the drivel on this thread I think by far your solution is the best one mentioned. It filters out the men who just see swinging as a way to get their rocks off from those who really know what swinging is supposed to be. Which is a mutual enjoyment with no entitlement disease from any party whatsoever, singles couples or females. I would very much love to meet you in future when I get the chance to come up north to your location. We need more club owners who think the same way as you do, instead of just thinking that swinger clubs are mere businesses where you can conveniently use business profit/loss reasons to gouge anybody out. " Well you would be very welcome to come along Just give us a call! xx | |||
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"Well without single men attending clubs I think most clubs would go down hill pretty quick lol. Apologies Shag, but I don't think that would happen I attend on Friday nights when most clubs alllow everyone; couples, single women, tv/ts, single men. I have lots of fun I also attend on Saturday nights when entrance is limited to couples and single females. I have lots of fun Can you detect an emerging pattern here YEs I can see that as well, but it will still say how much for singles to come in, or not just that club but others too "I am neither arguing the case for nor against flat rate charging. That is something nite club owners and swinging club owners know best as they run those businesses As a single woman, I will attend any club as long as there are plenty of decent men to choose from (and some women too ). As else, I do still have a subscription to SKY and a USB powered vibrator | |||
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"Stop moaning about price and be grateful the clubs are doing what they can to attract females and couples, as without them the clubs will die. As others have said, if you don't like it, don't go." But it turns off lots of single women. I go to clubs to meet men. If there are not as many men there, there is not such a good reason for me to go. I don't want to just meet older, rich guys, I want to meet guys my own age that *might not* have as much money too. | |||
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" Out of curiosity, what would you call an appropriate ratio of each grouping in a club setting? Good question, and I don't know with not being an expert! But I'll throw 60% couples, 20% single women, 20% single guys out there as an ideological starting point...
You see in my experience and what i attend clubs looking for I would say 50% couples, 35% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts is a good balance and that essentially is the problem with clubs having to meet a ratio system than a pricing one to regulate numbers. Each person will have a different opinion on what is the right ratio/mix of people"I'd like to suggest more men than women... and as few couples as possible... But we'll all make up numbers based on what we are personally looking for. | |||
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" Out of curiosity, what would you call an appropriate ratio of each grouping in a club setting? Good question, and I don't know with not being an expert! But I'll throw 60% couples, 20% single women, 20% single guys out there as an ideological starting point...
You see in my experience and what i attend clubs looking for I would say 50% couples, 35% women, 10% men and 5% tv/ts is a good balance and that essentially is the problem with clubs having to meet a ratio system than a pricing one to regulate numbers. Each person will have a different opinion on what is the right ratio/mix of people
I'd like to suggest more men than women... and as few couples as possible...
But we'll all make up numbers based on what we are personally looking for."So true. My ideal will be: 25% couples of which 100% have a bisexual female partner 55% men (of which 100% are straight) 20% women (100% lesbian, apart from myself) This works very well for me | |||
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"Stop moaning about the price and be grateful the clubs are doing what they can to attract females and couples, as without them the clubs will die. As others have said, if you don't like it, don't go." Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. Of course clubs need single men, without them they would not survive. Luckily there are lots of them going to clubs, and at the prices charged at the Vivente club no doubt there will be a lot more, that really is good value. Especially for a Friday night! Happy swinging. | |||
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"Oh well if we are going to start throwing in percentages of personal preferences, I would like 100% lesbian/bisexual females please!! hehehe " That's very selfish, you should include at least 1% of mid 50s couples from Leeds, the other 99% we can live with. | |||
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"Oh well if we are going to start throwing in percentages of personal preferences, I would like 100% lesbian/bisexual females please!! hehehe That's very selfish, you should include at least 1% of mid 50s couples from Leeds, the other 99% we can live with. "There's always room for negotiation! lol x | |||
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" Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. " I think most of the recent ratio discussions are tongue-in-cheek. But supply-and-demand is linked to ratios - price is used to limit the number of single men in relation to the other groups. This prices out some single men some of the time. So is it possible to find other ways to control the number of single men, so that everyone is happy and not just those who currently benefit from the pricing imbalance?Understand? Jeez, some people are so far up their own arse they're almost inside out. | |||
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" There's always room for negotiation! lol x"Since you good people obviously have a positive attitude to this whole issue, I'd like 50% couples where both are bisexual, 25% bisexual single guys, and 25% bisexual single girls please. Let me know the date and I'll book my trains and a hotel :D | |||
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" There's always room for negotiation! lol x
Since you good people obviously have a positive attitude to this whole issue, I'd like 50% couples where both are bisexual, 25% bisexual single guys, and 25% bisexual single girls please.
Let me know the date and I'll book my trains and a hotel :D"What you haven't cracked yet, is how to guarantee these people to walk through the door! lol When you have that sorted, you should open your own club! haha xx | |||
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" What you haven't cracked yet, is how to guarantee these people to walk through the door! lol When you have that sorted, you should open your own club! haha xx "Yeah, I know it's not easy for clubs to run at a profit. I appreciate that you guys try to work from a principle of fairness to all those who attend rather than solely exploiting those who find themselves on the wrong end of the supply-and-demand. I suspect that the effort you make results in a better vibe at your venue and hopefully that will bring dividends in the long run | |||
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" Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. I think most of the recent ratio discussions are tongue-in-cheek. But supply-and-demand is linked to ratios - price is used to limit the number of single men in relation to the other groups. This prices out some single men some of the time. So is it possible to find other ways to control the number of single men, so that everyone is happy and not just those who currently benefit from the pricing imbalance?Understand? Jeez, some people are so far up their own arse they're almost inside out." There is a club on the outskirts of London where one can hear metal birds taking off and landing. This club has adopted a pre-booking system and use the Eventbrite e-commerce engine to determine percentages attending. The system stops taking bookings at 19:00 (I think) and the party starts at 21:30. Whether they use this data to control entry or not, is something club owners will need to discuss with them They do have strict procedures to confirm identity and residence, which are enforced. Does not mean that 'undesirables' will not get in the first time. But once reported, one hopes that they will not be permitted to attend again They don't have flat rate pricing but it is converging. I pay £10, couples pay £30 and single men pay £60 on Friday evenings. I guess they could charge £20 for women, £40 for couples and reduce the entrance for men but with the small number of single women attending, it probably would not balance the books I have never visited any club North of Watford but it seems to me that the entrance is cheaper for men there when compared to in the South | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. " its very reasonable | |||
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"So tell me how come single females get in either free or for a much reduce price, I guess that's sexist " For the same reason that females get pregnant and visit gynaecologists. I guess you would like to as well; level playing field and all ... | |||
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" Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. I think most of the recent ratio discussions are tongue-in-cheek. But supply-and-demand is linked to ratios - price is used to limit the number of single men in relation to the other groups. This prices out some single men some of the time. So is it possible to find other ways to control the number of single men, so that everyone is happy and not just those who currently benefit from the pricing imbalance?Understand? Jeez, some people are so far up their own arse they're almost inside out." And some people are complete dickheads!! | |||
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" Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. I think most of the recent ratio discussions are tongue-in-cheek. But supply-and-demand is linked to ratios - price is used to limit the number of single men in relation to the other groups. This prices out some single men some of the time. So is it possible to find other ways to control the number of single men, so that everyone is happy and not just those who currently benefit from the pricing imbalance?Understand? Jeez, some people are so far up their own arse they're almost inside out. And some people are complete dickheads!! " I think you'll find I spent a lot of time putting my point of view and addressing the issue, and you bowled in with "rubbish that's been written in this thread", "is it that hard to understand? really???" and "what a ridiculous idea", all of which are snotty and dismissive of someone else's point of view, and betray both ignorance and arrogance on your part. | |||
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"So tell me how come single females get in either free or for a much reduce price, I guess that's sexist " Have you read any of the thread? The clue is up there ? | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. " Prices seem more than reasonable to me, pity your not closer I'd be there for sure. There will always be some who think things should be cheaper even if they wouldn't miss the money but as you rightly say the choice is theirs to make. But at those prices I think they would be missing out. | |||
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" Well said. I can't believe some of the rubbish that's been written in this thread. It's not rocket science, it's simple economics, supply and demand. Is it that hard to understand? Really??? As for a ratio of customers on a given night, how can you possibly know who will turn up? You can't! What a ridiculous idea. I think most of the recent ratio discussions are tongue-in-cheek. But supply-and-demand is linked to ratios - price is used to limit the number of single men in relation to the other groups. This prices out some single men some of the time. So is it possible to find other ways to control the number of single men, so that everyone is happy and not just those who currently benefit from the pricing imbalance?Understand? Jeez, some people are so far up their own arse they're almost inside out. There is a club on the outskirts of London where one can hear metal birds taking off and landing. This club has adopted a pre-booking system and use the Eventbrite e-commerce engine to determine percentages attending. The system stops taking bookings at 19:00 (I think) and the party starts at 21:30. Whether they use this data to control entry or not, is something club owners will need to discuss with them They do have strict procedures to confirm identity and residence, which are enforced. Does not mean that 'undesirables' will not get in the first time. But once reported, one hopes that they will not be permitted to attend again They don't have flat rate pricing but it is converging. I pay £10, couples pay £30 and single men pay £60 on Friday evenings. I guess they could charge £20 for women, £40 for couples and reduce the entrance for men but with the small number of single women attending, it probably would not balance the books I have never visited any club North of Watford but it seems to me that the entrance is cheaper for men there when compared to in the South" Partly because overheads and fixed costs (such as property) are lower outside of the SE. | |||
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" There's always room for negotiation! lol x
Since you good people obviously have a positive attitude to this whole issue, I'd like 50% couples where both are bisexual, 25% bisexual single guys, and 25% bisexual single girls please.
Let me know the date and I'll book my trains and a hotel :D"I will be there... whoring my hot bisexual sub around. | |||
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" They don't have flat rate pricing but it is converging. I pay £10, couples pay £30 and single men pay £60 on Friday evenings. I guess they could charge £20 for women, £40 for couples and reduce the entrance for men but with the small number of single women attending, it probably would not balance the books I have never visited any club North of Watford but it seems to me that the entrance is cheaper for men there when compared to in the South" Wow, £60 for entry for a single guy! I'd feel obliged to have sex with them all for that... | |||
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" ..... They don't have flat rate pricing but it is converging. I pay £10, couples pay £30 and single men pay £60 on Friday evenings. I guess they could charge £20 for women, £40 for couples and reduce the entrance for men but with the small number of single women attending, it probably would not balance the books I have never visited any club North of Watford but it seems to me that the entrance is cheaper for men there when compared to in the South Partly because overheads and fixed costs (such as property) are lower outside of the SE. " I meant that the ratio of charges in the South is somthing like: f1:m6 c1:m2 whereas in the North it is closer to: f1:m3 c1:m1 | |||
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" There's always room for negotiation! lol x
Since you good people obviously have a positive attitude to this whole issue, I'd like 50% couples where both are bisexual, 25% bisexual single guys, and 25% bisexual single girls please.
Let me know the date and I'll book my trains and a hotel :D
I will be there... whoring my hot bisexual sub around. " | |||
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" They don't have flat rate pricing but it is converging. I pay £10, couples pay £30 and single men pay £60 on Friday evenings. I guess they could charge £20 for women, £40 for couples and reduce the entrance for men but with the small number of single women attending, it probably would not balance the books I have never visited any club North of Watford but it seems to me that the entrance is cheaper for men there when compared to in the South Wow, £60 for entry for a single guy! I'd feel obliged to have sex with them all for that..." With the good-looking tall ones, I get the same feeling too
With the remainder, I feel no such obligation whatsoever and can very easily communicate my final decision to them | |||
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"Clubs have pricing structures that tend to work for them. Clubs are not run out of the goodness of the owner's heart but to provide the owner with a living. It is interesting to see so many people who say they rarely or never attend clubs trying to explain to owners and regular clubbers how the current system is wrong. If they are so sure about their business model then there is always the opportunity to open a club themselves or to host house parties. We've seen the rise and fall of many clubs over the last 15 years. It's a very difficult and delicate balance between total numbers, mix of genders and pricing. Get any of it wrong and the club dies and then no one wins. Leave it to the people who run the business to run it how they want and if you don't like it vote with your feet and go elsewhere. No one is forced to attend a club." The OP was asking why she's getting shitty letters so I'm only putting the single male viewpoint across, and trying to do so with no shiftiness at all. I appreciate that people have to make a profit, and I'm sure the balancing act is difficult. So rather than just moan, I've tried to put forward ideas and possible solutions - at least that's how I meant them, rather than as telling people how to run their club. We all want successful swingers' clubs, and I have reasons for not attending. It is in the interest of club owners to know why people are choosing not to attend, and it is entirely up to them then whether they act on that information or choose not to. | |||
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"The reason we opened Vivente was to give the north east choice and to bring something new and fresh to the scene especially as there has been a rise in younger couples and singles joining the lifestyle. We wanted to offer a younger vibe with the lowest possible prices to make it affordable for everyone. Yes we are a business and not a charity however we are not in it for profit. Swinging clubs are in the minority and not in a position to advertise mainstream. If clubs are to remain sustainable we have to cover the cost of overheads at the very least! We hold singles nights every Friday and offer something for everyone on other nights. We have a nice balance of singles and couples and yet to encounter any troublesome single guys. We treat our guys with the upmost respect and help them engage with other members. It actually goes a long way in earning mutual respect. My original post was not a gripe at all single guys, it was a gripe at people who expect something for nothing. Dave and myself have worked bloody hard for the money we invested in our club and Dave still holds his full time job running another business and I think people ought to look at the bigger picture. Thanks for everyone input on this thread. Kat x " I'm sure you work hard and that getting shitty letters makes you wonder why you bother. Since you raised the issue on a forum though I wanted to put the single guys side of the argument (and more politely than in your letter), and with explanation and possible alternative ideas that might help with an issue should you think one exists. I've tried to be articulate, fair, reasoned, and pro-active in addressing the issue, and hope you take my input in the well-intended way I meant it. | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. " | |||
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"Well without single men attending clubs I think most clubs would go down hill pretty quick lol. Apologies Shag, but I don't think that would happen I attend on Friday nights when most clubs alllow everyone; couples, single women, tv/ts, single men. I have lots of fun I also attend on Saturday nights when entrance is limited to couples and single females. I have lots of fun Can you detect an emerging pattern here YEs I can see that as well, but it will still say how much for singles to come in, or not just that club but others too
I am neither arguing the case for nor against flat rate charging. That is something nite club owners and swinging club owners know best as they run those businesses
As a single woman, I will attend any club as long as there are plenty of decent men to choose from (and some women too ). As else, I do still have a subscription to SKY and a USB powered vibrator "Yes good idea lol | |||
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"I find it a bit rubbish that there are 'single man' prices at all to be honest. However I come from the kink scene as a crossover where 'one price for all' is the norm. I guess it's got away with because they're private members clubs, but I think it's certainly treading a fine line when it comes to the Equalities Act... I agree. I think gender biased pricing is despicable. private clubs are fully in control of who comes though the door, so take control if it's a problem: limit the # of single guys (or girls) allowed in on a given night, or require a "pre-paid reservation" - just don't financially gouge single guys."That's what they do at some of the club's in the Midlands. .only allow a certain number of single guy in..chameleons is one that does that. | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing*" I suppose they will collect the money, graciously
I accept that you may feel 'objectified' and may have very good reasons to feel that way which you do not wish to share. I cannot speak for others but I do not feel that way in the least bit. I do not go to a club because it is free for me to enter (many in London are free for women) but because I want to have fun with the people I feel attracted to
If clubs started charging me (or charging more) then I would decide exactly the same way as I decide when purchasing any other product or service; is it worth it for me? can I get a similar product or service cheaper elsewhere | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing*" single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend?" I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me." not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison.... | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison.... "But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs. The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison. A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand. | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison....
But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs.
The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison.
A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand."So it sounds like fetish clubs and swingers clubs are also quite different things, so don't particularly suit comparison either. Pricing structures have been developed by clubs around what suits their scene and their circumstances. If the wrong structure is in place, people don't go to the club and it closes. It seems quite self-policing to me. (But then I don't go to clubs, so am a neutral observer.) | |||
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" But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs. The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison. A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand." see.... you are still not getting my point.... if lets say you were not in a swinging club as on a friday/saturday night..... because you are complaining the prices were too expensive, you wouldn't then say.... "ooooh... i'll go to another swinging club instead... because if that cheaper!" wouldn't you have gone to that club anyway if price was the determining factor! so what you should compare is swinging clubs to what you could be doing at the same time alternatively..... if you are going to stay in, you are going to stay in regardless... but if you were going to go out and do something else instead... what is THAT price comparison instead, so it all well and good saying "oh well i would have to spend "x" going to a swinging club.... but how many "x" pounds would you spend for example going out on a good friday/saturday night in a city centre instead? if people then a club is expensive they will vote with their feet.... and the complaint is so much they can't go, its they can't go as often as they like..... which is why i said... do what adults have had to do since the beginning of money.... budget! for example... i use to go too swinging events all over the country, and because I knew those events would end up costing more money than my normal saturday night (travel, accomodation, drinks, entry, food ect)... I budgeted for that... | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison....
But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs.
The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison.
A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand."Depends on the club. On a Saturday night a guy (limit of 8) will pay £30 and a couple is £25....so not much in it. From a commerce point of view, we actually make more money on the couples as they drink twice the amount from the bar and usually one of them is drinking alcohol. The single guys, in general, drive and don't drink alcohol at all and we get £3-5 on the bar from them, looking at averages. On a Thurs, Sunday, MILF MOnday and Fet night couples and guys pay a tenner. Ladies pay £5 across the board and TGirls (not 24/7 trans) pay £10 across the board. Our bar is highly subsidised so it is a cheap night out; for instance a shot of smirnoff vodka is £1. So if I compare what I would pay as a couple at our club for a night out to a nilla night out in town, I would spend around £50 in our club in total (£70) if I want to stay over and we always spend around £120 on a night out in town including a taxi and a take away. Our guys without exception, don't mind paying £30 on a saturday as there is a restriction of 8 guys. So they are in demand and are very likely to get a play. I am sure they would be peeved if they were paying that price and were one of dozens! | |||
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if people were able to explain that single male numbers were not controllable by any other means, I'd be fine with it.
If I pay the same for a different night out, I at least go home feeling I paid the same for that night out as everyone else would/did, whereas that's not the case with swingers' clubs, and that has frustrated me whenever I've been - which, before anyone jumps in, is why I've made the adult choice not to attend any more. | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison....
But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs.
The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison.
A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand."This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. | |||
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"I wonder what clubs would do if all the single women asked to pay single man prices too? So that they didn't feel objectified and so forth. *just musing* single women wouldn't go.... so then there would be a drop-off in couples... couples then wouldn't go..... so there would be a drop off in men.... and then when men wouldn't go.... then the club closes..... i want to ask people a question.... . if you were going out on a vanilla saturday night in a town centre... lets say its a really good night had.... travel in/out... beers..... heck lets throw in a meal for the sake of arguement..... how much would you reckon you would spend? I don't really have a comparison like you're suggesting, but when I go to fetish clubs in the Midlands I would normally expect to pay around £15-20 entry, perhaps another £5-10 on drinks, and about £10 on my petrol. That's a really good night to me. not the question i am asking...... for a reason.... more than one guy has said that clubs are expensive.... the question i am putting forward is in comparison to what????
so if you went out on a normal vanilla saturday night .... how much would you be spending in comparison....
But lets compare sex clubs with sex clubs... not sex clubs with nightclubs.
The two things are very different and don't really justify comparison.
A single guy will often be gouged for an awful lot more cash at a swingers club than a fetish club - I've seen it first-hand.
Depends on the club. On a Saturday night a guy (limit of 8) will pay £30 and a couple is £25....so not much in it. From a commerce point of view, we actually make more money on the couples as they drink twice the amount from the bar and usually one of them is drinking alcohol. The single guys, in general, drive and don't drink alcohol at all and we get £3-5 on the bar from them, looking at averages.
On a Thurs, Sunday, MILF MOnday and Fet night couples and guys pay a tenner. Ladies pay £5 across the board and TGirls (not 24/7 trans) pay £10 across the board.
Our bar is highly subsidised so it is a cheap night out; for instance a shot of smirnoff vodka is £1. So if I compare what I would pay as a couple at our club for a night out to a nilla night out in town, I would spend around £50 in our club in total (£70) if I want to stay over and we always spend around £120 on a night out in town including a taxi and a take away.
Our guys without exception, don't mind paying £30 on a saturday as there is a restriction of 8 guys. So they are in demand and are very likely to get a play. I am sure they would be peeved if they were paying that price and were one of dozens! "Actually the whole couple v single men pricing thing should be looked at per head price - single man = £30 per head Couple = £25 = £12.50 per head | |||
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"Fabio, I agree that single guys can budget and that the price is no more than that of many other nights out. But it's also true that the higher a price is, the fewer people can afford it, regardless of how well they budget. It forces people to make choices, and in my case the decision was to pass up on swingers' clubs. I think this is a shame, when I know other social groups are charged less to enter such clubs. So the OP wonders why men complain, and you ask 'expensive compared to what?' - expensive compared to what everyone else pays. You're making arguments that are valid about consumer choice, supply and demand and budgeting restraint. I'm not disputing those. But: the higher price limits attendances for some males, however hard they budget the price variation is driven by a need to control ratios, and there's certainly the possibility that other methods could be used that would reduce the differential in price since single men are a relatively small grouping compared to couples, it would only take a small adjustment in prices to ensure the club doesn't lose money then everyone who attends pays much closer to the same amount, which is more appropriate in this age of equality
if people were able to explain that single male numbers were not controllable by any other means, I'd be fine with it.
If I pay the same for a different night out, I at least go home feeling I paid the same for that night out as everyone else would/did, whereas that's not the case with swingers' clubs, and that has frustrated me whenever I've been - which, before anyone jumps in, is why I've made the adult choice not to attend any more."What other means are there to realistically control numbers? And what happens if you don't? Quotas? You'd then have two things happen. Men would complain that they're being penalised because there's no limit on single women or couples. Some people would also book up the available places and then not turn up (for perfectly understandable reasons - people's plans change due to normal life occurrences) causing hassle for the club which then have to deal with last minute availibility/reserve lists and potential loss of income. It's also impossible to predict the number of couples/single women that will be attending and then calculate the number of guys to let in to balance the ratios. Guaranteed entrance so long as you're pre-vetted via a specific night/visit to the club? Clubs then have to arrange additional events, most likely on weekdays as the weekends will already be busy. Guys will then have to cover additional travel/drinks costs to attend such an event - and this will also not provide a limit on numbers. So you could find men heavily outweighing couples and women. No restrictions and free entry for guys!! How happy will guys be even if let in for free if there's 20 guys for every couple and only two single women in the building. The complaints about cost will be replaced with complaints about not enough women/couples attending and how hard it is to get noticed due to the number of men present. Entry based on selection? A common one thrown out by guys who claim they are some way different from other guys on swingers sites and who visit clubs. They 'understand' club etiquette, they won't pester and they would be an asset to any club. So who decides who meets the 'criteria', who decides on the criteria itself and who deals with the complaints when people get turned down and start playing the age/size/race/any other card, and the complaints that clubs are elitist begin? If someone has a more viable, practically workable and realistic solution to managing ratios than the price variants - congratulations, you will have solved one of the swinging worlds great problems. For your next trick can you please come up with a foolproof timewaster deterrent, the perfect opening message, a guaranteed way to gauge cock size without a sky remote/Lynx can - and an answer that people will finally understand in plain English to the question of why people don't always answer messages. A | |||
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"Our guys without exception, don't mind paying £30 on a saturday as there is a restriction of 8 guys. So they are in demand and are very likely to get a play. I am sure they would be peeved if they were paying that price and were one of dozens! " See I don't buy this! I been to clubs that operate quotas. What happens if the 8 guys there don't interest the women and couples present? How in demand will they be then? You're basing 'likelihood to play' on the numbers argument - that given a restricted choice that others present will 'make do' rather than go without. A | |||
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"Its beginning to get my goat that a handful of single men complain about membership fees and entry prices. Just had a snotty message from one accusing us of ripping off and treating single men badly. We charge £30 annual membership with 1st entry free. £10 entry on Wednesdays. £15 entry on Fridays £25 on Saturdays as its predominantly couples. Id say we were very reasonably priced. A night in town would cost considerably more. And it comes across as disrespectful as if they are putting a price on sex. Guys if your not happy, don't come, its a simple as that. " To be fair I've seen a lot worse in terms of prices. If the local clubs were charging your prices I might of given it a go by now | |||
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" ... since single men are a relatively small grouping compared to couples, it would only take a small adjustment in prices to ensure the club doesn't lose money then everyone who attends pays much closer to the same amount, which is more appropriate in this age of equality
"I'm not sure which clubs you've been to, but in our experience, over 15 years and many, many different clubs, single guys, on a mixed night, are at least 50/50 with couples and single women. Is the price differential a means of controlling male numbers? Most clubs do not limit the numbers of men on mixed nights but these clubs are still single male heavy, despite the difference in price. As people have said above, the cheaper actual cost for couples and single women is a discount to encourage them to go. It is no different to cheaper entry before 10pm for example - it's a means of attracting people who otherwise might not go. There is no need to offer an incentive to single males because they are over-represented already. Until single males fail to appear at the door there is no need to drop their price. The pricing does not limit the number of single men but does increase the number of couples and single women. | |||
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" What other means are there to realistically control numbers? And what happens if you don't? Quotas? You'd then have two things happen. Men would complain that they're being penalised because there's no limit on single women or couples. Some people would also book up the available places and then not turn up (for perfectly understandable reasons - people's plans change due to normal life occurrences) causing hassle for the club which then have to deal with last minute availibility/reserve lists and potential loss of income. It's also impossible to predict the number of couples/single women that will be attending and then calculate the number of guys to let in to balance the ratios. Guaranteed entrance so long as you're pre-vetted via a specific night/visit to the club? Clubs then have to arrange additional events, most likely on weekdays as the weekends will already be busy. Guys will then have to cover additional travel/drinks costs to attend such an event - and this will also not provide a limit on numbers. So you could find men heavily outweighing couples and women. No restrictions and free entry for guys!! How happy will guys be even if let in for free if there's 20 guys for every couple and only two single women in the building. The complaints about cost will be replaced with complaints about not enough women/couples attending and how hard it is to get noticed due to the number of men present. Entry based on selection? A common one thrown out by guys who claim they are some way different from other guys on swingers sites and who visit clubs. They 'understand' club etiquette, they won't pester and they would be an asset to any club. So who decides who meets the 'criteria', who decides on the criteria itself and who deals with the complaints when people get turned down and start playing the age/size/race/any other card, and the complaints that clubs are elitist begin? If someone has a more viable, practically workable and realistic solution to managing ratios than the price variants - congratulations, you will have solved one of the swinging worlds great problems. For your next trick can you please come up with a foolproof timewaster deterrent, the perfect opening message, a guaranteed way to gauge cock size without a sky remote/Lynx can - and an answer that people will finally understand in plain English to the question of why people don't always answer messages. A " Thanks for engaging with the points of the discussion, not sure the disparaging tone is necessary. Of course no solution is going to be perfect, but for example a membership that sees single guys prices drop after for example 10 visits would be easy enough. Limiting numbers on the door apparently is used at some clubs. Reservations could work either electronically, or by gentlemen visiting the club in person on another night it is already open. Deposits could also be used to limit no-shows. TownhouseTwosome are club owners who are trying to find a better balance, and I wish other clubs would consider following suit. | |||
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" The pricing does not limit the number of single men but does increase the number of couples and single women." If it doesn't limit the number of single men, then why not just charge everyone £10? Then women and couples are paying the same amount as they are now, so won't just as many attend? | |||
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" The pricing does not limit the number of single men but does increase the number of couples and single women. If it doesn't limit the number of single men, then why not just charge everyone £10? Then women and couples are paying the same amount as they are now, so won't just as many attend?" And the club now does not take enough money through the door and closes! The premises is a finite size and you cannot just increase the number of bodies to make up the shortfall in cash. Can I ask you again which clubs you've been to where "single men are a relatively small grouping compared to couples" as this is not our experience at all. | |||
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" The pricing does not limit the number of single men but does increase the number of couples and single women. If it doesn't limit the number of single men, then why not just charge everyone £10? Then women and couples are paying the same amount as they are now, so won't just as many attend? And the club now does not take enough money through the door and closes! The premises is a finite size and you cannot just increase the number of bodies to make up the shortfall in cash. Can I ask you again which clubs you've been to where "single men are a relatively small grouping compared to couples" as this is not our experience at all. " My point was simply that you can dress it up as either reducing single men or increasing the others, it amounts to the same thing - men pay more than the other groups in an effort to ensure the club isn't overrun with single guys. I'm asking whether clubs can look at other methods at managing this rather than cost alone. I've been to clubs in Stoke and Sheffield and one the one time it was almost all guys was bi night lol. The other times there were more couples than single males I would say. I also feel that a sexual environment where guys are paying most of the money is a little discomforting for me. Surely the ideal in this day and age would be for everyone to be paying the same, if it's at all possible? That's why I'm asking if clubs couldn't look at other measures. Offering discounts (if that's how you prefer to see it) to single women to encourage them to attend is also not ideal as far as I'm concerned. | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway." So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband? | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband?" | |||
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"Perhaps a system based on average earnings might work better. Men, 100%. Couples, 185% Women, 85% You know, because on average women earn less compared to men. But statistically speaking, couples have the potential to earn (statistically) almost twice as much." Slap your wage slips and dole books on reception on the way in! hehe | |||
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"Perhaps a system based on average earnings might work better. Men, 100%. Couples, 185% Women, 85% You know, because on average women earn less compared to men. But statistically speaking, couples have the potential to earn (statistically) almost twice as much. Slap your wage slips and dole books on reception on the way in! hehe "I'm a student, can I get a grant to cover my entrance? | |||
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"Excellent, six posts since my last one, all full of good sense :D" If it means anything, I'm also uncomfortable with a sexual environment where men pay more than woman (and all the connotations of 'reassuringly expensive' that it carries with it). I'm also uncomfortable at the way these structures deal with transgender and intersex people too. | |||
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"Perhaps a system based on average earnings might work better. Men, 100%. Couples, 185% Women, 85% You know, because on average women earn less compared to men. But statistically speaking, couples have the potential to earn (statistically) almost twice as much. Slap your wage slips and dole books on reception on the way in! hehe
I'm a student, can I get a grant to cover my entrance?"I am sure you could get grant that would cover your club entry as it 'could' fall into 'educational' hehe | |||
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"Excellent, six posts since my last one, all full of good sense :D If it means anything, I'm also uncomfortable with a sexual environment where men pay more than woman (and all the connotations of 'reassuringly expensive' that it carries with it). I'm also uncomfortable at the way these structures deal with transgender and intersex people too." I'm really glad you've posted this. I nearly put earlier something along the lines of: "Maybe some single women don't attend because they're uncomfortable with the connotations of entering a sexual environment where the men have paid and they haven't." Much better for that sentiment to have come from a woman though. | |||
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"Perhaps a system based on average earnings might work better. Men, 100%. Couples, 185% Women, 85% You know, because on average women earn less compared to men. But statistically speaking, couples have the potential to earn (statistically) almost twice as much. Slap your wage slips and dole books on reception on the way in! hehe
I'm a student, can I get a grant to cover my entrance?"Here let me just write this club night on my HSBC exspences form. Does this mean i get to dodge tax lol | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband?" The answer to that needs no explanation at all. I refuse to get dragged into a feminist argument with a woman who doesn't attend swinging clubs | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband? The answer to that needs no explanation at all. I refuse to get dragged into a feminist argument with a woman who doesn't attend swinging clubs " I do attend swinging clubs. And it's not a feminist argument. It's merely asking why single men should feel like they're getting something extra than what single women are getting. | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband? The answer to that needs no explanation at all. I refuse to get dragged into a feminist argument with a woman who doesn't attend swinging clubs I do attend swinging clubs. And it's not a feminist argument. It's merely asking why single men should feel like they're getting something extra than what single women are getting." I don't agree with everything you say (how boring would that be) but I like you...if you're ever in Liverpool, we should have a beer and chew the fat | |||
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" I don't agree with everything you say (how boring would that be) but I like you...if you're ever in Liverpool, we should have a beer and chew the fat "I might be up there at some point actually, may well take you up on a coffee or something. Gender quality for ALL genders (not just male and female) is what I'm particularly interested in professionally, academically and privately. | |||
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" I don't agree with everything you say (how boring would that be) but I like you...if you're ever in Liverpool, we should have a beer and chew the fat
I might be up there at some point actually, may well take you up on a coffee or something. Gender quality for ALL genders (not just male and female) is what I'm particularly interested in professionally, academically and privately."Cool...you can have a coffee, I'll have a beer! hehe Could be an interesting convo | |||
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" This thread is in reference to my OP from my club profile. You have just stated in an earlier post how much you would spend and considered it a reasonably priced night out. Look at my prices. The most expensive night for a single male is £25. add the cost of his alcohol, if he wishes, say 4 cans at £5, £10 travelling costs. That's £40. Im sorry but that is a very cheap night for a single male who may possibly have the added priveledge of playing with another mans wife! And if not, he'll have good banter socially anyway. So if it's a good night out, why shouldn't a single woman be willing to cough up for a bit of banter, some socialising, and the possibility of playing with another woman's husband? The answer to that needs no explanation at all. I refuse to get dragged into a feminist argument with a woman who doesn't attend swinging clubs I do attend swinging clubs. And it's not a feminist argument. It's merely asking why single men should feel like they're getting something extra than what single women are getting." The single men that have attended our club don't feel like that at all and they don't come with any expectations and the ones who do quickly find out the hard way. I can only express my views based on my own members. Comparing single women and single men I find single men gain a lot more from the swinging experience than women! | |||
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" Comparing single women and single men I find single men gain a lot more from the swinging experience than women! " What do you mean by "More" in this context? | |||
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" Comparing single women and single men I find single men gain a lot more from the swinging experience than women! What do you mean by "More" in this context?" Honestly, I respect your views, but discussing every aspect of swinging from the emotional, to the sexual to the physical negatives and positives, would be a very lengthy debate and I don't have the time. | |||
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" Comparing single women and single men I find single men gain a lot more from the swinging experience than women! What do you mean by "More" in this context? Honestly, I respect your views, but discussing every aspect of swinging from the emotional, to the sexual to the physical negatives and positives, would be a very lengthy debate and I don't have the time. " Right. No worries. Message heard. I just thought it was interesting, and clearly you have insider information from a privileged point of view. I'd like to understand why it's considered men get 'more' out of swinging than women, and if that's the case why women do it. | |||
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" Comparing single women and single men I find single men gain a lot more from the swinging experience than women! What do you mean by "More" in this context? Honestly, I respect your views, but discussing every aspect of swinging from the emotional, to the sexual to the physical negatives and positives, would be a very lengthy debate and I don't have the time. Right. No worries. Message heard. I just thought it was interesting, and clearly you have insider information from a privileged point of view. I'd like to understand why it's considered men get 'more' out of swinging than women, and if that's the case why women do it." That's just my personal opinion from what I've seen as a club owner and a long term swinger. I agree that it's a very interesting subject to discuss as is swinging on the whole. I spend most of my time chatting to people and learning from them because this scene and any other alternative lifestyle scene is fascinating and it's a minefield. Myself and my partner have started to attend fetish events for personal reasons and that fascinates me too. Which is why discussing it now would clog up this thread even more lol. Judging by your recent forum post question I can understand your need for answers. | |||
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