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Orbans politic could be europes new model
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Says gerald knaus, as there dont seem to be a common eu solution to the migration issues after the summit they had, have orban the perfect formula, whats your view? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Because you're lazy:
Orban is Viktor Orban, Hungarian prime minister who has made a career of blaming immigrants for all of the problems in Hungary.
His right-wing Fidesz party has a two-thirds majority in the Hungarian Parliament, and has used this to push through a number of laws designed to target immigrants, and anyone who helps them.
His party is built on a platform of ethno nationalism and antisemitism, has a history of using antisemetic dog whistles in speeches, and more recently going so far as to seek to pass a bill recently known as the "stop Soros" bill, Soros being the arch boogyman of all anti semites.
Unsurprisingly, this is wrong and no, it should not be the policy of any place, let alone the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Says gerald knaus, as there dont seem to be a common eu solution to the migration issues after the summit they had, have orban the perfect formula, whats your view?"
Nope. |
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The EU/UK should ensure that they focus on causation as much as possible and managing/reducing the causes - including not engaging in conflicts that could exacerbate situations. It suggests that the UK should continue to be within the comprehensive EU approach though.
Refugees and responsibilities for them are long established and rejecting them wilfully, potentially cruelly, or returning them to homelands that could result in loss of lives etc is not an appropriate solution.
The UK has re-defined its immigration of late as a problem, even though immigrants were net contributors to the UK economy and the lack of local services for prior residents, such as hospitals, schools, homes etc were attributed to immigrants, rather than on central government not having invested and planned appropriately, especially when many immigrants are needed for essential services as well as food production.
The UK is largely not subject to open borders, except within member states and between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, where no border checks are made upon immigrants. The latter should prevail as part of brexit if continued. Mainland Europe does have open borders, by and large, unless member states restrict access. I'm unsure that the EU member states will remove free movement of people, as this would be a major step into the past and a more closed culture. |
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"The EU/UK should ensure that they focus on causation as much as possible and managing/reducing the causes - including not engaging in conflicts that could exacerbate situations. It suggests that the UK should continue to be within the comprehensive EU approach though.
Refugees and responsibilities for them are long established and rejecting them wilfully, potentially cruelly, or returning them to homelands that could result in loss of lives etc is not an appropriate solution.
The UK has re-defined its immigration of late as a problem, even though immigrants were net contributors to the UK economy and the lack of local services for prior residents, such as hospitals, schools, homes etc were attributed to immigrants, rather than on central government not having invested and planned appropriately, especially when many immigrants are needed for essential services as well as food production.
The UK is largely not subject to open borders, except within member states and between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, where no border checks are made upon immigrants. The latter should prevail as part of brexit if continued. Mainland Europe does have open borders, by and large, unless member states restrict access. I'm unsure that the EU member states will remove free movement of people, as this would be a major step into the past and a more closed culture."
In short - no, the EU should not adopt this dreadful man's approach. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."
In the BBC news this evening."
OK
But even so, the answer isn't following Hungary into fascism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."
In the BBC news this evening.
OK
But even so, the answer isn't following Hungary into fascism."
For some here that is the answer.They fear their culture is being polluted by immigrants and believe in this rediscovered ethnic Christian identity to purge the EU of the immigrant. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
""The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."
In the BBC news this evening.
OK
But even so, the answer isn't following Hungary into fascism."
Maybe Hungary is the symptom, EU the cause? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."
In the BBC news this evening.
OK
But even so, the answer isn't following Hungary into fascism.
Maybe Hungary is the symptom, EU the cause?"
You're going to have to expand on that, as it makes no sense as it stands. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have spend millions on fences to construct a border with serbia and croatia during the crisis in 2015 to save europe."
Whats your final solution to the immigration problem shag ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They have spend millions on fences to construct a border with serbia and croatia during the crisis in 2015 to save europe. Whats your final solution to the immigration problem shag ?"
Not sure, but remember that a crisis is only temporarly, it took spain 800 years to get it back, it probably would be a lot quicker this time.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have spend millions on fences to construct a border with serbia and croatia during the crisis in 2015 to save europe. Whats your final solution to the immigration problem shag ?Not sure, but remember that a crisis is only temporarly, it took spain 800 years to get it back, it probably would be a lot quicker this time."
So you think it's comparable to the moorish invasion of Spain.Do you think it's a matter of time before we see a caliphate in the EU.Would a white Christian EU be your preferred outcome and repatriation of undesirables. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"They have spend millions on fences to construct a border with serbia and croatia during the crisis in 2015 to save europe. Whats your final solution to the immigration problem shag ?Not sure, but remember that a crisis is only temporarly, it took spain 800 years to get it back, it probably would be a lot quicker this time.
So you think it's comparable to the moorish invasion of Spain.Do you think it's a matter of time before we see a caliphate in the EU.Would a white Christian EU be your preferred outcome and repatriation of undesirables."
Not the same comparable. I would like a mixed eu with all sorts of cultures, but they have to respect and assimilate the country they are in, you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How many immigrants actually live in Hungary, and how many Hungarians have emigrated out of Hungary to other countries? "
Unsurprisingly, Hungarians make up 98.4% of the population, immigrants make up 1.6%. (Source: Hungarian Central Statistic office).
Meanwhile about 600,000 Hungarians are estimated to be living in other EU countries alone (which is already greater than the total global immigrant population of Hungary), globally it would probably be closer to a million and a half. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How many immigrants actually live in Hungary, and how many Hungarians have emigrated out of Hungary to other countries?
Unsurprisingly, Hungarians make up 98.4% of the population, immigrants make up 1.6%. (Source: Hungarian Central Statistic office).
Meanwhile about 600,000 Hungarians are estimated to be living in other EU countries alone (which is already greater than the total global immigrant population of Hungary), globally it would probably be closer to a million and a half."
The smaller a the problem, the bigger the outcry.  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way"
The EU is a dictatorship I should have said. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThe EU is a dictatorship I should have said."
And the moon is made of green cheese!
What?
Aren't we supposed to say blatantly untrue things with absolute certainty? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way"
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. "
You mean leave like us.You know that is a silly remark as the rules change on all matters all the time |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. "
No it is concise facts
and you do not like people disagreeing with you as you like dictatorship.
I am not lazy but I also do not teach people who do not have the IQ to learn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. You mean leave like us.You know that is a silly remark as the rules change on all matters all the time"
Yes, the rules can and do change in the EU.
But only with the express consent of all the EU nations.
The fantasy that the rules were changed without the knowledge of the UK or Hungary is a lie.
Why are you telling lies? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. You mean leave like us.You know that is a silly remark as the rules change on all matters all the time"
What rules have changed since Hungary joined? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way"
That is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does."
Why did they join if they don't like the rules? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?"
Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then."
What rule has changed since Hungary joined? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then.
What rule has changed since Hungary joined?"
Not sure, but could be that. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then.
What rule has changed since Hungary joined?Not sure, but could be that."
But any treaty change would have had to have been approved by Hungary wouldn't it, so it's safe to assume that's not the case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. No it is concise facts
and you do not like people disagreeing with you as you like dictatorship.
I am not lazy but I also do not teach people who do not have the IQ to learn"
Try living in a dictatorship before you call anyone a dictatorship. You wouldn't have the freedom to say what you say. You'd be arrested, tortured and may disappear. That is a real dictatorship. So enjoy your freedom of speech and be happy you're not in a dictatorship. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then.
What rule has changed since Hungary joined?Not sure, but could be that.
But any treaty change would have had to have been approved by Hungary wouldn't it, so it's safe to assume that's not the case."
Probably following the Tory playbook of talking both sides of their mouth, negotiating things in Brussels and then coming home to lambast the very agreements they were party to.
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"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified wayThat is right, that is why the slavic coutries do good, cos they dont give in as easy as all the other countries in the eu does.
Why did they join if they don't like the rules?Maibe they liked the rules when they joined, but it have changed a lot since then."
They're free to leave. No one is forcing them to stay if they don't like the "new" rules that *they* also helped introduce. If they lefy though, no more free movement for *their* people within the other EU countries and no more EU benefits. I guess they like the benefits of being a member but not the obligations. See how they like it if there are sanctions introduced for such members (which I think what the case might be, in order to solve the migration crisis fairly)  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit. "
Didn't they have a referendum on joining? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The EU should leave it up to the individual countries and not try to be a dictatorship.
That is why are stupid government needs to get there act together and get us out in an orderly dignified way
Countries chose their own non-EU immigration policy, and Hungary was WELL aware of the freedom of movement for EU citizens before they joined. If they don't like the club rules, don't join the club. To say the EU is a dictatorship is lazy hyperbolic bullshit.
Didn't they have a referendum on joining?"
83% were in favour of joining, which is a clear indication on the issue, but the turnout was less than 50% of the electorate. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
We spent a fortune waging a Cold War to give the people of eastern Europe their freedom.
The freedom includes choosing to join the EU, with its various rules of membership, or not.
Some newly re-established countries chose to join, others chose not to.
To describe the EU as a dictatorship is just daft.
It is a club, it belongs to the members who set the rules, and those rules are enforced by a Commision that is accountable both to the Council and the Parliament.
It operates by consent of the member states. Any country is free to leave at any time if they do not like it.
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